H. OF R.] Apportionment Bill. [JAN. 18, 1832. premature and unnecessary a discussion. This is but one stated. The principle was plain-the lower the ratio, the of the many instances which I have witnessed here of a less amount of fractions. That any fraction should exist, disposition to talk, without any practical benefit to be ex-was to be regretted; he should vote in favor of the lower pected. Why are our tables loaded with petitions, resolu- number, because it would produce greater equality of retions, and bills? One great cause is, we expend too much presentation throughout the country. It was said that the time in useless debate. Many subjects are now before us, smaller number could better transact business. How is it which have been submitted for many previous sessions with the present House? Do we not do business? Do without being brought to a final decision. Every alternate not the people rather require an increase than restriction session of Congress continues almost six months; and we of the numbers of the House? We have no right to inthen adjourn without completing one-half of the business quire what is most agreeable or convenient to ourselves before us. As we now legislate, the whole year would personally. The question is, what do the people require? be an insufficient time to enable us to do what we ought Gentlemen talk of the expense of an increase of the to do. I think I can trace this delay in business to a com- House. Sir, when the people cannot afford to maintain a petent cause. I have been informed that early legis- House of Representatives of the proper size, let them say lation in this House did not take the same course; that, so. He should vote for the largest number that could when our numbers were comparatively small, the sessions conveniently do business together. were short, and all the business of the nation was promptly done. Mr. Chairman, look at the other branch of Congress. Their number is small; they have not the power to interrupt the freedom of debate by interposing the previous question, and they have other important and onerous official duties to discharge besides those of legislation; but they are always in advance of us. I mean with the exception of the last session, when a great portion of their time was taken up in sitting as a court to try an impeachment. Entertaining these views, I cannot be convinced but that too great an increase of the numbers who constitute this House, will retard legislation, and, therefore, I shall vote against the amendment, and support the bill as originally reported. Mr. THOMAS went into a general defence of the principles adopted by the committee in forming the report, and vindicated them from any imputation of referring to the situation of their respective States, in establishing the ratio reported by them. Mr. BURD said it is an important subject; one of great concern to the several States, and especially to the Union. This Government is to be kept in wholesome action by proper checks and balances; the States preserving their independent character, and the citizens of all the States represented in the great assembly of the nation. This, emphatically, is the republican branch of the Government. To this Congress of the nation representatives are elected biennially; coming immediately from the people, and returning to them, and to them to give an account of their Sir, during the time I have been a member of the doings. The other branch is one supposed to be of a House, I have not often trespassed on the time of the grave cast, and a more deliberative body, and more removcommittee or House by my remarks, and even now I have ed from the people; and, by its organization, exercising a done it unwillingly. I had hoped that some member from high controlling power. It is, he said, of consequence the State, a portion of which, I have the honor to repre- that the different branches of the Government be kept in sent, of more practical experience in legislation than my-wholesome_action. If there be danger from any, cerself, would have expressed his views, and what I believe, tainly that from the popular branch is least to be dreaded. in a considerable degree, are the feelings of our State. It has proved but nothing more than flows from its own The remarks which I have made are imperfect, the sug- action. It has no patronage--no offices to bestow, or gestions of the moment; and if I have been so fortunate comparatively none. Then how can a moderate increase as to convey my ideas intelligibly to the committee, I shall of this body be dangerous? It may be somewhat inconbe satisfied. venient, and may be unwieldy, but cannot be dangerous. Mr. CLAY, of Alabama, said he should not go into the I am not of opinion, said Mr. B., that the people are their discussion of the general question. That had been so own worst enemies. We have now tried our form of Gofully debated in all its views, as to render it unnecessary for vernment for fifty years, and have no reason to doubt the him to take up the time of the committee. He had heard permanency of it. Knowledge is power; enlighten the the statement of the various principles with interest, par-public mind, and good fruits will follow. Then what is the ticularly the avowal of democratical principles, pro hac state of this Union? Have the old thirteen been less pavice, by the gentleman from Maryland. He was opposed triotic, less talented, less virtuous, or less brave, than the to any increase of the present number of representatives new States? I answer, no; emphatically, no. Are they on this floor. If any favor should be extended to States, less so now? that is the question. To that, for one, I reit should certainly be to the new States, because they are spond, no. The institutions of these States will bear a constantly increasing. At the ratio of forty-four thousand comparison with any in the world. In most of these the fractions of Alabama and Mississippi will be forty-two thousand. Will this be just? In less than three months after taking the census, their increase would more than make up this deficiency. If favor is to be shown to any, by arranging small fractions to them, it should surely be to those States whose increase is the most rapid. As to the proper size of this House, he would inquire whether gentleman had found, in the facility of transacting business with its present number, two hundred and thirteen,culated to take their produce from their doors. They an argument in favor of its further increase? Mr. REED, of Massachusetts, said the gentleman from Alabama had contended that if any favor was to be shown, it should be to the most flourishing States. Mr. CLAY explained by saying he did not intimate that the prosperity of the States should have any thing to do with representation; but that the smallest fractions should be arranged, if possible, to those States which increased the fastest. Mr. REED said it was the same in substance as he had States man is taken in infancy, and carefully educated. This education is general, and improves man in his moral and physical nature. We live in a Government of laws: and will an enlightened man be more likely to break them than one not so? I say not. These observations are made, not to take from the new States the merit which they have: their lands are fertile, their climate generally good, their mineral productions of great amount, and their waters cal have, in the spirit of the age, advanced in manufactures, internal improvements, and the arts; their population, virtuous, talented, brave, and enterprising. Their popu lation, from these causes, have, of course, vastly increased, and may it continue to increase; and, as these States become more densely populated, may they have, as they will have, an increased representation in this House. The institutions of Pennsylvania, and her natural advantages, show that she will lose nothing. Our citizens go to the far West, but others come from abroad. The nurture of JAN. 19, 1832.] Domestic Manufactures. [H. OF R. men is easy, and employment in abundance of course, and believed, pretty well ascertained that the matters involvpopulation increasing. I would be content with our pre-ed in the general subject of the tariff had been referred sent representation; but can this be the case? We say we partly to the Committee of Ways and Means, and partly are progressing, and our numbers increasing rapidly. to the Committee on Manufactures. There was not the Our roads and canals, and the liberality of our institutions, smallest disposition on the part of the committee to which invite the foreigner to settle amongst us. This is the case he belonged to interfere in the slightest degree with the with the Western States; but how is it East? An exten- department of the Committee of Ways and Means. What sive seaboard; their citizens engaged in trade in every the House would do with the resolution, which, though country and every clime; the dangers of a seafaring life, coming from the Committee of Ways and Means, related and the constant emigation West, carry off their inhabit- almost entirely and exclusively to the subject of manufac ants. It is true many of them came here from the West-tures, it was for the House to determine. ern States; but then they are Western men, specially represent their ancient friends. covet the rights of the Eastern States, and patriotic State of Virginia? I hope not. tent with our advantages, and not wish to neighbors. and no longer Mr. McDUFFIE now expressed a determination to re- Mr. BRIGGS, of Massachusetts, next obtained the floor; but it being now past four o'clock, after a few prefatory words, he moved that the committee rise. It rose accordingly, and reported progress, when the House immediately adjourned. THURSDAY, JANUARY 19. DOMESTIC MANUFACTURES. Mr. ADAMS, from the Committee on Manufactures, reported the following resolution: Mr. CAMBRELENG suggested to him that it would be a better course to move for the consideration of the other resolution. To this Mr. McDUFFIE objected, since, as both reso lutions referred almost precisely to the same thing, it would be an anomaly to pass them both. Mr. TAYLOR now called for the reading of both reso lutions, and they were accordingly read as follows: [Resolution reported by the Committee on Manufactures.] Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed to obtain information as to the quantities and kinds of the several articles manufactured in the United States during the year, particularly those of iron, cotton, wool, hemp, and sugar, and the cost thereof; and also the quanResolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be direct-tities and cost of similar articles imported from abroad ed to obtain information as to the quantities and kinds of during the same year; and that he lay the same before the several articles manufactured in the United States this House as early as may be practicable during the preduring the year, particularly those of iron, cotton, wool, sent session of Congress, together with such information hemp, and sugar, and the cost thereof; and also the quan-as he may deem material, and such suggestions as he may tities and cost of similar articles imported from abroad du- think useful, with a view to the adjustment of the tariff, ring the same year; and that he lay the same before this after the payment of the public debt. House as early as may be practicable during the present session of Congress, together with such information as he may deem material, and such suggestions as he may think useful, with a view to the adjustment of the tariff, after the payment of the public debt. Mr. ADAMS stated that he had been instructed by the committee to ask of the House that the rule which requires that calis on the department should lie for one day on the table, should in this case be suspended, in order that the resolution might be acted upon without delay. The question being put, the House agreed to suspend 'the rule, and to consider the resolution at this time. Mr. McDUFFIE said that he should like to know from the Chair whether the consideration of this resolution would take precedence of that which had been offered by the Committee of Ways and Means some days since upon the same subject. The CHAIR replying in the affirmative, Mr. McDUFFIE then said that he should move to lay the resolution on the table. The resolution reported by the Committee of Ways and Means had been prepared by the Secretary of the Treasury himself. He thereupon made his motion, but withdrew it at the request of [Resolution reported by the Committee of Ways and Means.] Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be requested to collect such facts and information as may be in his power, of the extent and condition, generally, of the manufactures of wool, cotton, hemp, iron, sugar, salt, and such other articles as are manufactured to a considerable extent in the United States; and report the same to this House as early as may be practicable during the present session, for the use of Congress; and that he be also requested, in transmitting the aforesaid information, to accompany it with such a tariff of duties upon imports, as in his opinion may be best adapted to the advancement of the public interest. Mr. ADAMS now requested that if both resolutions were to be considered, the House would take up that which he had reported by itself. Mr. DAVIS inquired of the Chair whether the two resolutions were not identical. The only difference he could perceive between them was, that the one proposed that the Secretary should be requested, and the other that he should be directed, to furnish the requisite information, in which respect he believed the report of the gentleman of Massachusetts had the advantage in point of correctness. The CHAIR, after considering the two resolutions, decided that they were not identical; the one being specific, and the other general in its character. Mr. ADAMS, who said that the reason why the Committee on Manufactures desired to have this resolution acted upon immediately, was, that they could not perform the duty which had been assigned them without the information therein called for. The chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means had stated that the resolution Mr. L. CONDICT now said that the Committee on offered in the name of that committee had been concert- Manufactures found themselves unable to act on the subed between himself and the Secretary of the Treasury.ject which had been referred to them without the inforMr. A. also could state that the resolution now offered by mation called for by the resolution. It was true that the the Committee on Manufactures was in consequence of a resolution from the Committee of Ways and Means did communication which he, as the chairman of that commit- embrace within its requirements the information sought tee, had had with the same public officer. It was not for by that now before the House; but it was so framed as him to decide whether the House should adopt both re- to take the whole subject out of the hands of the Comsolutions, and whether, if they did, the two resolutions mittee on Manufactures entirely. The committee found should be sent to two different committees. It was, he an interminable debate interposed between them and VOL. VIII.--100 H. of R.] Patents.-Bank of Erie. [JAN. 19, 1832. the information sought by the previous resolution; and formation precisely in the form that he wished it; but until that debate should come to an end, the facts could when calls came from their side of the House, a different not by that resolution be obtained. This had led the Com- doctrine seemed to prevail. However, with the undermittee on Manufactures to direct that the present resolu- standing that the resolution of the gentleman from South tion be offered. Carolina should next be taken up, he would withdraw Mr. C. proposed to amend the resolution by striking his amendment, and he withdrew it accordingly. The therefrom the words "after the payment of the public question was thereupon put, and the resolution was debt." The resolution, as it now stood, went in effect to propose that the Secretary should report a tariff graduated on the assumption that the national debt had been paid; but it was probable Congress might determine to repeal or modify some of the items of the existing tariff before the public debt should have been paid. The question being put, the amendment was carried; and, on the suggestion of Mr. CONDICT, the blank in the resolution after the word "year" was filled by inserting the words "ending the 30th September, 1831." adopted. It was then immediately put on Mr. McDUFFIE's resolution; which was also agreed to, PATENTS. Mr. TAYLOR, from the Committee on the subject of the Patent Laws, reported a joint resolution authorizing the employment of additional clerks in the Patent Office, to record the unrecorded patents for useful inventions. Mr. TAYLOR, of New York, explained the grounds of the resolution. thousand patents remained at this time unrecorded in the He stated the surprising fact that six Mr. CARSON now moved to amend the resolution by striking out the words "reduction of the tariff," and Patent Office. He also stated that in some cases where inserting "the present duties in such a manner that the suits had been instituted by patentees, and applications revenue, as derived from all sources, shall not exceed the actual necessities of Government." Mr. C. observed, been deposited in the office, the original specifications consequently made for copies of specifications which had in support of the amendment, that it must be obvious to were nowhere to be found; and thus the inventors who all, that, after the payment of the public debt, no greater had complied with the law, and paid their fees for having amount of revenue would be requisite than that which their inventions secured to them, were deprived of the was needed to defray the expenses of the Government. evidence necessary to sustain their rights in the courts of How much that would be, he did not undertake precisely the United States. to say; but it was a fair subject of inquiry from the Trea- which it appeared that the balance of $103,000, derived Mr. T. presented a statement, from sury Department. Mr. MCDUFFIE said that he should not press his mo- the expenses of the office, had been carried to the account from the payment of fees, and remaining over and above tion to lay the resolution on the table, in the understanding of clerk hire, but, owing to the provision of an act passed that, if it was adopted, that reported from the Committee in 1818, could not be applied to the object intended. of Ways and Means would be considered in its turn; and The committee preferred the measure now proposed to a if both were to be adopted, he should be disposed to per- permanent increase of the number of clerks in the Patent mit the gentleman from Massachusetts to have his resolu- Office. The arrears of labor to be done would occupy the tion passed in the form he had himself given it. He time of fourteen or fifteen clerks for a whole year. hoped the amendment therefore would not be pressed. the emergency was somewhat pressing, the committee He wished it, however, to be distinctly understood, that, in had chosen the form of a joint resolution to encountering voting for the resolution, he did so, because it was the the delay of a bill. The resolution was thereupon ordered to a second reading to-morrow. wish of the Committee on Manufactures that such a call should be made, although it was entirely unsatisfactory to himself. Mr. HOFFMAN expressed his hope that the course suggested by the gentleman from South Carolina would be pursued, and that the House would not encumber the resolution with matter such as the committee who report ed it considered irrelevant. He believed, however, with due submission, that a part of the facts called for could not be got from the treasury. The organization of that department, and the sources from which this information was to be drawn, were such that it never could be come at, except by a call for persons and papers, in order that the facts might be verified by oath. He hoped that the whole truth would be elicited, and that the resolution would remain in such a form as the committee had chosen to give it. He had no regard as to what quarter an inquiry came from, or for what purpose it was made, provided the information sought were useful and important. He should vote against the amendment. BANK OF ERIE. As The bill empowering the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States on the Commercial Bank of Erie, came up as the unfinished business of yesterday morning, and the debate upon it was resumed by Mr. CAMBRELENG, who, though unwilling to oppose the bill, did not wish the Secretary of the Treasury should have the responsibility of its introduction. Mr. INGERSOLL thought it strange that the gentleman from New York, without finding fault with the merits of the bill, should object to it because a general power, extending to all similar cases, was not conferred by it upon the Secretary. Mr. WHITTLESEY again went into a statement more detailed than that he had given yesterday, of the nature and origin of the debt owed by the bank to the United States, in which he corrected the misapprehension of the Mr. CARSON disclaimed any wish to embarrass the reporter that the bank was in his vicinity. [The bank is committee. He could not, however, forbear to remark, at Erie-the gentleman resides at Canfield. The places, that when gentlemen on one side of a great question though not close to each other, lie in the same region of moved a call, their design could be embarrassed-amend- country.] He strenuously vindicated the bank from all ments were brought forward, discussions gone into, and imputation of fraud, and imputed its failure entirely to long speeches made, all, as it would seem, from the fear the general pressure of the times when it had taken place. that the information sought might prove injurious to the American system. He had not offered the amendment from any want of respect for the committee. But he thought the time had arrived when the people ought to A desultory debate continued for some time between know the actual amount requisite to meet the wants of Messrs. HOFFMAN, CAMBRELENG, and McDUFFIE, Government; the sum beyond which their represent- on the propriety of investing the treasury with a general atives ought not to go in laying taxes upon them. But power, the danger of a precedent like this, when banks they were now told that every gentleman must have in- had dishonestly failed, and the true intent and meaning of He repeated the expression of his conviction, that, unless the compromise should speedily be effected, the debt would prove a total loss. a certain letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, in reference to the compromise. An attempt to postpone the consideration of the bill until Monday failed, and the debate resulted in a postponement till Tuesday next. APPORTIONMENT BILL. The House then, on motion of Mr. POLK, went again into Committee of the Whole, and resumed the consideration of the apportionment bill. [H. of R. Mr. Chairman, are there not reminiscences connected with the history of these old States worthy of consideration in the settlement of this important question? The four States most deeply to be affected by the decision which we are about to make, are numbered among the immortal thirteen. May they not point you to those great transactions which gave birth to this free republic, and ask you to remember the days of their trial, and the deeds of their valor? May they not, in the language of kindness and afMr. BRIGGS rose, and said he was in favor of the mo- fection, say to their younger sisters, do not, in your prospetion of the gentleman from New Hampshire to strike out rity, unless some great principle demands it, or some great forty-eight and insert forty-four thousand as the ratio of interest makes it necessary, drive one of our members representation; and he would bespeak the indulgence of from this floor, whilst you are so fully represented? May the committee whilst he presented some of the considera- they not say to their sisters of the West, that the great dotions which had induced him to support the motion. main which constitutes your rich inheritance was purThis, sir, said Mr. B., is the most important question chased by their blood and treasures, which flowed as free which has been presented during the discussion of the as the rushing fountain? They envy not your prosperity, subject before the committee. I consider it so, because nor would they check the rapid current of your population. it proposes the highest ratio, which will save to each of Their children and their dearest friends are among you, the States their present number of representatives upon participating in the success of your unparalleled fortune. this floor. If forty-eight thousand prevails, you take from But they ask you to remember that, in the days of your the Southern States, and from New England, two of the minority and weakness, they successively took you by the sections of this country, two members each. The same hand, and, upon the principle of equality and justice, inthing, as it respects New England, occurred under the troduced you into the great republican family. They are apportionment of the census of 1820. If the bill, as re-gratified with your increasing wealth. They are proud of ported, becomes a law, the operation of the two appor- your advancing greatness; for you are a portion of their tionments will be to reduce the number of representatives common country. Sir, may not old Massachusetts and old from the New England States more than one-tenth. The Virginia ask their elder sister, New York-that great nagentleman from Tennessee, I presume, could not have tion in itself-to remember the perils and the conflicts of been aware of this effect when he adverted to the operation by-gone times? In the great struggle of the revolution, of the last apportionment to sustain the report of the com- the State of New York, who now appears upon this floor mittee in this case. This bill, sir, strikes from New with a phalanx of representatives equal to the whole of Hampshire one-sixth of her representation on this floor; New England, was comparatively small, and stood in need from Massachusetts, one-thirteenth; from Virginia, one of the aid of her powerful neighbors. In every part of twenty-second part; and from Maryland, one-ninth. If her territory which was then inhabited, may now be found these consequences, so unfortunate to the individual States, the bones of their sons whose blood crimsoned her invaded and so undesirable to their sections of country, can be soil. Their relative condition has now changed. She avoided without the introduction of greater evils, I trust has become numerous and powerful, and they comparathat the justice of this Congress will see that it is done. tively small. When she can at once be generous and just, The population of Kentucky is less than that of the adjoin-will she be unmindful of her ancient friends? Can she foring State of Tennessee by something short of four thou-get Virginia, and Maryland, and Massachusetts, and New sand. Forty-eight thousand gives to Tennessee an addi- Hampshire, the associates of her youth, the sharers of her tional representative over Kentucky. This is an inequality toils, the companions of her glory! With in the condition of two States, located side by side, which The census of 1820 gave us a population of ten millions. the most obvious principles of right require should be The ratio under that census was forty thousand. The peoavoided. Adopt the proposed amendment, and you pro-ple did not complain that that number was too small. The duce this desirable result. Again, sir, forty-four, whilst circumstance attending that ratio, which I sincerely regret, it preserves the present number of representatives to every is, that the principle of reserving to each State her existState, leaves a less general fraction than any other ratio,ing number had not been regarded as sacred. from forty to sixty thousand, except forty-two and forty-a population of ten millions, we had two hundred and nine thousand; and it exceeds that of these but a trifle. thirteen representatives. We have now an increase of It elects more members with small fractions than any other three millions, to which the bill on your table substantially number within the above range. If you adopt this num-proposes to give twenty-four members, or one to one ber, it will give you a House of two hundred and fifty-nine hundred and twenty-five thousand. members. Divide the whole federal population of the United States by this number, and about forty-six thousand will be the general average amount of population that will choose a representative. These, sir, are some of the views and facts which present themselves upon the face of the bill itself, and which result from an examination of the tables reported by the select committee, and which have had an influence in leading me to the conclusion that forty-four thousand is the number which ought to be established. Gentlemen tell us that at forty-eight thousand, which takes a member from the delegation from each of the States before named, the constitutional proportion among The fact stated by my distinguished colleague, [Mr. all the States is preserved, though they deeply regret the ADAMS,] a few days since, that forty-four thousand would effect upon the losing States. This, sir, is certainly true; present the same proportion between the number of rebut I reply that at forty-four thousand the same just pro- presentatives and the population of the whole country portion of which they speak will be maintained, and the that was established by the constitution of the United very desirable object of securing to every member of this States, is deserving the grave consideration of this comconfederacy its present number is obtained. The condi-mittee. It is profitable to be carried back to the period tion of those great and increasing States, whose growing of our national history when that instrument was adopted. numbers will add to their delegation at each succeeding It is delightful to linger among the men who mingled in census, is widely different from that of the old and small the great councils of those eventful days of our republic. States, whose population remains comparatively stationary, and who may be destined to lose one or more of their representatives every ten years. Their principles were the result of enlightened and mature deliberation, and flowed from the pure fountain of patriotic hearts. When I find my views upon public mea H. OF R.] Apportionment Bill. [JAN. 19, 1832. sures sustained by their opinions, or guided by their prece- little time, and, for aught I know, as well done, as that of dents, I feel a confidence in their correctness and recti- other States whose Legislatures consist of fewer numbers. tude which approaches to certainty. In that day, it was An honorable gentleman from North Carolina has told the opinion of General Washington, and an opinion urged us that if we increase our numbers we shall approximate with all the influence of his great name, that thirty-three a mob. The representatives of the people constitute a thousand was too large a number to be represented in this mob? Sir, I have yet to learn that mere numbers conbranch of the Legislature by one man. In this opinion stitute a mob, however numerous they may be. I had he was sustained by his compatriots, and the number was supposed that it was the character of an assembly which fixed at thirty thousand. Will it be pretended that the would entitle it to that appellation, and not its numbers. interests of our constituents diminish with the increase of Let it not be said that a great and enlightened people their business and the variety of their pursuits? Has ex- cannot increase their representatives, for fear that when perience demonstrated that the wisdom of the represen-assembled they should degenerate into the character of a tative has necessarily advanced with the limits of his dis-mob. The spirit of our institutions, and the true princitrict, or the number of persons whom he represents? If ples of democracy, demand a full representation of the not, let us not be too anxious widely and rapidly to depart people in this House. It was a great question in the Confrom the salutary principles sanctioned by the framers of gress which formed our constitution, whether the memour constitution. bers of this branch of the Legislature should represent It is said by the gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. AL- the States in their corporate capacity, or the people of LAN,] that if the number of representatives is to increase the States. The latter principle prevailed; the former in proportion to our population, we soon shall have a was adopted in respect to the Senate. This is the only House so large that it will be physically impossible to do department of your Government in which the will and the public business. I believe no one has contended the opinions of the people can be directly brought to bear that this rule is to be, or ought to be, indefinitely ex-upon their public servants. A democrat by birth, by tended. When the principle which we may now safely education, and from choice, I fully concur with the eloand properly establish as the basis of representation, shall, quent gentleman from Rhode Island, that the best inteby an increase of numbers, or any other circumstance, rest of the people in this country requires that this princease to be the true one, those who may succeed us will ciple should be carried into full and perfect operation. make the necessary change. It is also said, and urged as The representative and his constituents ought to be a reason against the increase of numbers in this House, brought as near to each other as possible. To secure the that the Congress of '76 consisted only of fifty-four mem- great object of the elective franchise, the citizen should bers; and that the Congress who made our constitution know the personal and political character of the candiwas composed of a less number than that. Did either of date for his suffrage. It is this particular acquaintance, those august bodies believe that theirs was the golden this personal intercourse, which fastens upon the mind of number? If so, why was it not established by a perma- a public agent an abiding sense of his responsibility to nent law? But, sir, the numbers of which each of those the power which creates him. The representative ought bodies were composed were arbitrary and accidental, and to know his constituents, and be intimately acquainted depended upon no fixed or established principles. Until with their wants and their wishes, their manners and custhe adoption of the present constitution, the delegates from the several States, in Congress assembled, represented the States from which they came; and, whether the number from a State was more or less, they were entitled to but one vote in the national councils. toms, their business and pursuits. As you increase the ratio of representation, you lessen the facilities of acquiring this knowledge. The ratio and principles of representation in the Legislatures of the several States in this Union, exhibit in the Gentlemen who are in favor of a large ratio tell us that most striking manner the opinion of the people of this if the numbers of this House are increased to any consi-country upon this question. derable extent, it will be impossible to hear, or under- The average population to a representative in the sevestandingly to do business. I believe, sir, that, with the ad-ral States is probably between three and four thousand. dition of one hundred members in this spacious room, a In the State of New York, whose representation bears man would speak with more ease, and be more distinctly the smallest proportion to her whole population of any heard, than with the present number. It is not our num-State in the Union, the numbers represented by a menbers which prevents our hearing. If the House are dispos- ber of their popular branch is about one-third that of ed to hear, they can. The reverend gentleman who opens the ratio proposed by the amendment before the committhe daily proceedings of this body by supplicating the bless- tee. I know, sir, that the State Legislatures do not preings of the Creator, with a small, effeminate voice, is dis-sent precisely a parallel case with the one we are continctly heard in every part of this Hall. On all questions sidering; but the analogy is sufficiently striking to anof general interest, when members desire to hear, they swer the purpose for which I use it, viz. to show the find no difficulty. On a late occasion, when this immense opinion of the framers of the constitutions of the States, Hall was filled to overflowing, the voices of the speakers were clearly heard throughout every part. I deny the position that large legislative bodies do not progress with business as fast as smaller ones. and the people of the States, upon the policy of a full and numerous representation. While this great republic, which stretches itself across an entire continent, is rapidly advancing in all the improvements which belong to the I do not claim personally to understand the progress of age in which we live-increasing in numbers, and embusiness in the two branches of this National Legislature; bracing a population engaged in an almost endless variety but gentlemen whose experience on the subject gives them of interests and pursuits, let us secure to every section a the means of knowledge, are of opinion that this body, liberal and fair representation in this great Legislative with two hundred and thirteen members, does business with Council, until the vastness of our numbers shall, as a more facility than the body across the rotundo, which con- choice of evils, compel us to abandon the principles and sists of only forty-eight members. At the close of each details of an apportionment which it is now both practicasuccessive session, bills on bills which have passed this ble and just to adopt. branch are left lumbering the tables of the Senate chamber. In my apprehension gentlemen are entirely mistaken The House of Representatives of the State which I have when they talk of the republicanism and the safety of a in part the honor to represent, frequently consists of five small number of representatives in this House. The hundred members, assembled in a room smaller than this; converse of this proposition I hold to be the true doctrine yet, sir, the business of that commonwealth is done in as on this subject. And, sir, if I am not altogether mistaken, |