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Jar. 25, 1832.)
(H. OP R.
that period, and of the subsequent years, informs us that the occupy that high office, of less virtue and more aanbition House of Representatives was regarded too small, and than belonged to the father of his country! In Great that it was expected its numbers would be enlarged as Britain, where the House of Commons is more than thrice soon as the enumeration should be taken. In accordance our number, to which circumstance I attribute, in a very with this general sentiment, the bill for the first appor- great degree, the acquisition and preservation of English tionment under the census of 1790 passed the House, liberty, it is well known what immense and sometimes giving as many representatives as the constitution would appalling influence the Crown exercises over that body, admit, one for every 30,000.
when determined to carry some favorite measure of GoThis bill was amended in the Senate by substituting vernment in opposition to popular sentiment. Offices the ratio of 33,000, not because that body was opposed and pensions, stars and garters, are offered, and a part to a numerous House, but for the purpose of avoiding will be found base and venal enough to desert their coun. large and unequal fractions, which several of the small try for enjoying these favors of the royal bounty. In the States were obliged to sustain under the ratio of 30,000. late popular attempts for a reform in Parliament, one of The House refiised to accede to the amendment of the the strong objections adduced against that important Senate, and the bill failed. A second bill was then introduced measure was, that the disfranchising the rotten boroughs, and passed the House, with the same small ratio as before. and substituting a more independent representation, would In this bill the Senate not only retained the ratio of the deprive the Crown of its accustomed influence over the House, but offered an amenilment which went to increase Commons, which was deemed by the advocates of arbi. the number, by adopting the principle of dividing the trary power as necessary for the maintenance of the royal whole aggregate population of all the states, and not the prerogative. But no such prerogative as this can be population of each State individually, by the ratio pro- claimed for the Executive in this country. It is the great posed. Upon this principle, 30,000 was made the divisor, and peculiar principle of our Government to keep the the whole aggregate population the dividend, and the three branches of power inviolably separate and distinct. whole number of representatives was expressed by the Any interference of the Executive upon the province quotient. After giving one representative to each of the of the judicial and legislative departments cannot be States for every 30,000 persons, eight remained, which made without violating the constitution, and trampling were assigned to those States having the largest fractions. under foot the rights of the people. If, however, an inWith this amendment, the bill was sent to General Wash-dividual, placed in that high office, or who may be a can. ington, then President of the United States; and, al. didate for it, and depending entirely upon the vote of though it was his desire that the House of Representatives this House for his elevation, should be disposed to tamshould be numerous, he felt bound to return it with his per with the integrity of members, and to seduce them objections in writing, that Congress, by adopting the from their trust and their country, for accomplishing his above principle of apportionment, had transcended its own ambitious designs, promises, either direct or indi. powers, by giving more representatives to some of the rect, can be made, without the fear of detection, and States than the constitution would acimit. Thus the second offices and emoluments, as the reward of subserviency, bill failed. It being indispensable that an apportionment can be granted here as well as in other countries. This should be made, a third bili was brought forward; and, in power of the President to make appointments from either order to obviate the objections before experienced, the House of Congress, has long been regarded so dangerratio of 33,000 was adopted. Such was the general and ous, in the hands of unprincipled ambition, and so liable decided opinion in favor of a numerous House, that, under to be perverted for mere party, or baser purposes, that the census of 1800, and when the population had increased many of our most experienced statesmen have earnestly more than one-third, the same ratio was continued ten recommended an amendment of the constitution, in or. years longer. In 1812, the ratio of apportionment was cler to prohibit its exercise entirely. I would have this increased to only 35,000; in 1822, to 40,000; and now it is House not only pure and independent, but, if possible, proposed to auginent it to 48,000; which will be a greater without suspicion, and above temptation. Being the increase of ratio, and consequent diminution of the House, great popular assembly of the nation, it should ever conin proportion to the population, than took place in the tinue the faithful guardian and the strong defence of the first thirty years of the Government.
people's rights; for it is l'ere, if any where, that in the In the multitude of counsellors, we are told, there is hour of peril and commotion they must look, with confi. safety. I know of no safeguard so effectual to secure the dence, for safety and protection. Make it so numerous independence and integrity of this House, as its great that the most daring chieftain would despair of any atnumbers. The powers which the Executive can exert, tempts upon its virtue, and the glorious inheritance of personally, and through the agency of the hundreds and freedom derived from our fathers will remain secure. thousands of officers dependent entirely upon bis will, is But once corrupt it, put it under the influence of insidious so immense, and rapidly increasing, that some powerful ambition, and a Cæsar or a Cromwell can as well rule here check becomes necessary to counterbalance and resist its as elsewhere. force. He is the head of the army and the navy; the Believing, as I do, in the safety and great value of a whole post office establishment is under his control; all numerous House of Representatives, I am, of course, in foreign ministers-all the collectors of the revenue-all favor of that ratio which shall secure to all of the old the district judges and attorneys-the governors of the States their present number. But, if my opinion was territories—the vast Executive corps at the seat of Govern- divided, and I thought, as some do, that a few more or a ment, and numerous other officers throughout the coun- few less would be but a matter of indifference, my feel. try, act ander his directions, and must subserve his in- ings would induce me to accede to the wishes of those terest, at the peril of removal. When the first bill for States, when no danger can be apprehended from the the apportionment of representatives was under consi- result. Their pure devotion, and eminent services, in deration, in the early part of General Washington's ad- securing our liberties, and in establishing our free and ministration, one of the principal arguments in favor of a happy Government, can never be erased from the bosom numerous House was, that it would be better able to re- of any American. With grateful admiration shall I ever sist the great influence of the Executive, and other ex. regard that State where Bunker Hill battle was fought,
Does not the same reason continue, and where Fanueil Hall exists, and where was kindled that with greater force, when the power and patronage of Aame of patriotism that blazed with so much fervor the President have increased more than fourfold, and through all the colonies. With no less veneration shall when it may be presumed that individuals will sometimes I cherish that land which was the birthplace of Washing
H. of R.]
[Jan. 25, 1832.
ton, the nursery of so many illustrious patriots, and the er's arithmetic is to be made the text-book of political orscene where was won that decisive battle which termi-thodoxy, we can have some conception of the elements nated our struggle with tyranny, and secured the inde- of their calculation, though it would be just as easy to pendence of this country.
work the sum so as to bring out an entirely different reNo one can rejoice more than myself in the growth sult. and prosperity of the West. Full well I know that the There can be no difference amongst us as to the truth time is fast advancing when it must be her proud destiny of the general principle, that in a representative democrato hold the balance of empire on this continent; and from cy, as our Governments have been denominated, the pothe intelligence, the love of country, and ardent emula- pular branch of the legislative department should be suftion in every thing that is great and honorable, which I ficiently numerous, adequately to represent the variousmyself have witnessed there, I repose with confidence in interests of the community liable to be affected by its lethe belief that that empire will be swayed with justice, gislation. This is the general principle. In its practical and for the good and glory of our common country; yet application, due regard must be paid to the extent of terI cannot see the power of these older sisters of the repub- ritory and population for which it is to make laws, to the lic, once great States, pass away or be diminished, with extent and character of its legislative powers, and to the out melancholy emotions. And sure I am that I can necessity of so limiting the number of the deliberative asnever raise my hand to depress them in the scale of the sembly, that it can discharge the functions of a deliberaconfederacy, or sever one particle of their moral or poli- tive body withdespatch, with fidelity, and without disorder tical influence.
and confusion. In giving our votes upon this bill I trust we shall be in He expressed his surprise at the sensibility which was fuenced by a just and liberal spirit of compromise, and displayed by gentlemen at any intimation that their geneby those generous feelings which may not only satisfy the ral reasoning in favor of any particular number was influwishes of the old States, but maintain the ancient and cnced by the consideration that the tabular statement popular principle of a full and free representation of the which had been furnished, showing the effect any given people.
ratio would bave upon the representation of each State, Mr. BELL, of Tenn., followed in reply to the two gen-exhibited a result, in some particular or another, particutlemen who had preceded him, and vindicated the dele-larly favorable or convenient to the States respectively, gation of his State from some remarks which he considered which each gentleman represented. If the fact is not so, as reflecting on them for the course they had pursued on the coincidence between the conclusions which a regard this subject.
to the particular interests of the State would dictate, and Mr. WAYNE disclaimed all intention of personal allu- the conclusions which the general reasoning employed by sion in what he had said.
each gentleman is designed to produce, is most remarkaMr. PATTON said it was with reluctance that he asked ble. Without having any idea that the fact involves any the attention of the committee, at so late a period of the imputation on the sincerity or disinterestedness of gentledebate, when he thought it probable that, however they men, take up the tabular statement, and you find that might be in other particulars, the committee was now di- Georgia, by the ratio of 48,000, gains one member, and vided between those who wished to speak, and those who has a fraction of 45,832; by the ratio of 44,000, she gains did not wish to hear; very bad materials to furnish an at-two, and has a smaller fraction; and the gentleman from tentive audience. He should not have asked their indulg. Georgia (Mr. WAYNE) portends dreadful consequences ence at all, and especially not under such circumstances, from the rejection of 44,000. Upon a ratio of 48,000, if he had not thought it incumbent upon some member New Hampshire loses a member, and has a fraction of of the Virginia delegation, on behalf of that ancient 29,326; and the gentleman from New Hampshire (Mr. commonwealth, to tender the requital of his thanks for HUBBARD) has moved the amendment now under consis the kind and disinterested solicitude which had been ma- deration, and deprecates our doing injustice to the “glowifested by all the gentlemen who had addressed the com- rious old thirteen," as they have been called. Vermont mittee in favor of the proposition before it, for the pre- is stationary at 48,000, and has a fraction of 40,657; at servation of the rights, interests, and honor of that State. 44,000 she gains a member, and has a small fraction; and the And he thought it more particularly called for from some gentleman from Vermont (Mr. Hunt} contends for a small member of that delegation who had the misfortune not ratio upon broad and general principles. Advantages of to be able to perceive any thing in the reasoning which the same kind, apparent or real, will be found to ensue to had been employed by those gentlemen, to satisfy him the States of Maryland, Kentucky, and Massachusetts, by that either her rights and interests would be sacrificed or the adoption of so low a ratio as that now proposed: and jeopardized, or her dignity impaired, by fixing on the ra- the representatives of those States who have addressed the tio of forty-eight thousand, or even on a higher ratio. committee, have enlarged upon the importance of a very This was his predicament, and he hoped to be allowed to numerous representative body -- have indulged in beauti. present the views of the subject which had brought his ful exhortations in favor of a low ratio, in order to pre. mind to this conclusion.
serve our republican institutions, and democratical prinThose gentlemen from Massachusetts, from Maryland, ciples—in strong appeals in behalf of the old thirteen from Kentucky, from Georgia, from Vermont, and from States, and, especially, that the Old Dominion should not New Hampshire, who have taken part in this debate, have be deprived of any of her strength. This is natural. Our discussed the question as if the rejection of the proposed opinions are always liable to be iníluenced and colored by ratio of forty-four thousand would involve the destruction our interests, our feelings, and our passions; and it is creof our republican institutions, and exhibit utter disregard ditable to the character of these gentlemen, as faithful of the democratic principles whicii seemed to be cherished representatives, that they should feel anxious for the sucby all. In enforcing his opinions, one gentleman (Mr. cess of a ratio which has the appearance, if not tlie reBriggs) has told us he is a democrat by nature. What ality, of promoting the honor and interests of the States that may be, I do not profess to comprehend. It is very they respectively represent; nor is it wonderful that, havevident, from the speeches of several other gentlemen, ing ascertained the number which they would prefer, they that there are some who are democrats by arithmetic, should have persuaded themselves that general reasoning which is a sort of democracy he had as little faith in. 1 and sound principles concur in proving the propriety of know not, said Mr. P., by what process it has been as- its adoption. A very distinguished judge of Virginia, certained that a ratio of forty-four thousand furnishes the now deceased, used to say that it was his practice, in deonly veritable exponent of pure republicanism. If Cock-ciding causes, to endeavor, in the first place, to find out on
Jan. 25, 1832.]
[H. or R.
which side the justice of the cause was, and, having satis- beyond which, in every deliberative assembly, lies disorSed himself of that, he seldom or never had any difficulty der and confusion, and uproar and tumult. How can it be in finding law to sustain it; and it is precisely in the same argued, with any plausibility or force, that a man can reway that gentlemen find an abundance of general argu- present 44,000! But yet it is impossible for one man to ments thoroughly and sincerely to convince them of the represent 50,000. If it is made a question of arithmetic, propriety of their particular ratio.
and worked by the rule of three, a difference may be I, therefore, return my thanks to those gentlemen from found, but not upon any rule of political proportion. Massachusetts who have made so many appeals on behalf It is a curious fact that the honorable gentleman from of Virginia, sincerely, I have no doubt. But it affords a Georgia, (Mr. WAYNE,) who has most zealously and ve. most striking exemplification of the fact that our judg. hemently argued the anti-republican and anti-democratical ments are liable to be influenced by accidental circum- consequences of a larger ratio than 44,000, is himself the stances; that when we recur to the proceedings of Con- direct and immediate representative of more than half a gress in 1822, upon the apportionment under the census million of people, as Georgia elects her representatives of 1820, that this very principle which is now urged so by general' ticket; and surely none on this foor understrongly in favor of 44,000, viz. that the old thirteen stand the interests of their constituents better, or are more States should not be deprived of any of their numerical prompt to defend their rights, than the representatives of strength, was earnestly insisted upon, and it was opposed the people of Georgia. The city of New York, with a by those gentlemen who, or whose successors, now sus population of 200,000, and having many and diversified tain it so warmly. The orator of Roanoke, as he has been interests, elects three representatives to Congress, each called in this debate, Mr. Randolph, was then here as one of whom is voted for by the whole people of the city; and of the representatives of Virginia, and advocated that prin- consequently each of them is the direct and immediate re. ciple with great zeal, and with all the power of his pecu- presentative of 200,000 people. I know not whether the liar eloquence and talent. Most ably and most feelingly honorable gentleman from Pennsylvania, who addressed did he resist any ratio which would have the effect of the committee, (Mr. Burd,] and considered it inconsis. depriving Virginia of any of her numerical force. But tent with our republican institutions for one man to repre. the Massachusetts delegation, and the Rhode Island dele- sent more than 44,000, comes from what they call, there, gation, all of them, I believe, were inaccessible to the a double or treble district; but there are such here from force of the argument--the claims of the old thirteen were Pennsylvania, who now represent at least 120,000, under not regarded. They were unmoved by his eloquence, or the apportionment of 1822. his remonstrances, and were found in opposition to the There is one consideration which has great force with very principle which so many of the delegation of those me, that seems not to have been adverted to. In a repre. States have insisted on in this discussion as a leading motive sentative Government, whose Legislature has unlimited of action; and thus Virginia was then deprived of a part of powers, the regulation and superintendence of the rights her representation, and Delaware was curtailed of one- of persons and property, whose legislation affects local half her proportion. I mean no reflection on the dele- concerns and interests, it is more important that the regates of Massachusets, at that time or now, by referring presentation should be full, and a more numerous assemto this history of the proceedings of Congress in 1822. bly may be tolerated. But where the functions of the Every man, I believe, from Virginia, at that time, except Government are limited, its sphere of action extending to Mr. Randolph, voted against the ratio of 35,000, which subjects of a general and national character, affecting not would have secured their number of representatives to the separate rights and interests of individuals, but ope. all the old thirteen. * I presume they believed, as I now rating alike upon large districts, upon whole States, and believe, that the notion that the State would suffer, either even upon many States, the representative assembly may in strength or dignity, by the loss of a member, is entirely be less numerous, relatively to the population. A much fanciful. Of what consequence can it be to Virginia, or greater number may be represented by a single indiviMassachusetts, that they each lose a representative, if all dual, without any principle of representative democracy other States lose, or are prevented from gaining, in an being violated. Now, we are not sent here to represent equal degree?
local interests, but those general interests which are ho. It is vain to attempt to give a precise solution to the po- mogeneous in the larger districts, and which even are litical problem of what number any representative assem- similar, if not identical, in whole States and sections of the bly should consist. There can be no definite rule. The Union. Here, then, the business of legislation can be done constitutions of the States show great variety of practice by comparatively a smaller body, with fidelity and greater and diversity of opinion in this respect. The State of despatch. Besides this Legislature, there are twenty-four Virginia has a population nearly double that of Massachu-State Legislatures, to whom appropriately belongs a vast setts. The popular branch of the Legislature of the for. mass of legislation, which would have to be done here if mer never exceeded 214; and, under the constitution this were a single, unlimited Government. recently formed by her late convention, the number was It is considered to be a very strong objection to the reduced to 134. The most popular branch of the Legis- progress which it is proposed to make in increasing the lature of Massachusetts is about 500®strong; yet, surely, number of the representatives in this House, that its unano person will say Virginia is less democratic, or her Go- voidable tendency is to make this Government, in pracvernment less republican, than that of Massachusetts. 1tice, a single, unlimited Government. Increase the numdo not mean to say it is more so. The general principle bers of this assembly, and its practical effect will be to which has been already stated, is sufficiently attended to induce the people more readily to acquiesce in the exerin both. In all questions like the one before us, the great cise of usurped powers. They become familiarized to object to be kept in view is to avoid both extremes the practice of looking to this Government for all the be. that in which the representation is too small faithfully to nefits and blessings of legislation, and more readily yield reflect, and adequately to protect, the sentiments and in- to its interference with their local interests; in other words, terests of the people by whom they are chosen; and that its tendency is to alienate their affections from their State
institutions. Mr. P. has been informed that he was mistaken as to the fact that
But it is argued by my colleague, (Mr. MERCER,) it is all the Virginia delegation, except Mr. R., voted against 35,000 as the necessary to go on increasing the representation here, in did. It is possible he is mistaken as to the unanimiiy of the Repre: ment from exercising a pernicious influence over the
Several of them, he now understands, voted as Mr. R. order to prevent the other departments of this Govern. sentatives from Massachusetts. The above remarks, therefore, are not literally correct-substantially he believes they are so.
House of Representatives. Experience nor reason give
ratio in 1822.
H. of R.]
(Jax. 25, 1832.
any sanction to this apprehension. Since the adoption of representatives for the old States remain the same, an the present constitution, does the history of the Govern- equivalent addition must be made to those of the new ment furnish an example of any encroachment upon the States. We cannot stay their rapid strides to political rights, powers, and privileges of this body, either by the power in this confederacy. On the rule indicated, in Executive or the Senate? By whom may we apprehend twenty years we shall have 400 members on this ffvor. I the exercise of any such sinister influence? By the Senate? do not say that I would not add any more representatives, They are themselves indirectly the representatives of the but let it be done more gradually than before--festina lente. people; chosen by the members of the several Legisla Nor can I yield to the force of the suggestion made by tures who go directly from amidst the people who choose the very distinguished member from Massachusetts, (Mr. us. They have no motive to control our cieliberations, or Adams,] founded upon the exact proportion which he encroach upon our rights. Allusion has been made, du- finds to exist between the number fixed by the convention ring the debate, to the House of Commons of Great Britain, that framed the constitution for the first Congress, comfor another purpose, which has been already answered by pared with the population of three millions then, and the others. I refer to it to show how idle is the apprehension number of this House, upon a ratio of 44,000, compared that this body may be swayed from its fidelity to its consti- with our present population of 12,000,000. It has already tuents, or prove unable to resist the influence of the Pre- been truly remarked that 65 was fixed on by the conven: sident and the Senate, without a large addition to its num- tion, arbitrarily and temporarily. The constitution probers. The history of the House of Commons shows a vided for an immediate enumeration, which was immedisuccession of triumphs gained after severe struggles and arely had; and the constitution having fixed the minimum stout resistance from the King and Lords. It is because ratio, the Congress under the first census was composed of the large number of which the House of Commons of 105 members, and consequently, if a relative proportion is composed that they have not achieved still greater was observed between the representation really adopted triumphs of popular opinion. The really popular portion by the convention, we ought now to bave a House of upof this popular branch of the Parliament of England is wards of 400 members. trammelled and fettered-has been at times almost over If, sir, we are to be driven to the low number proposed whelmed, by that portion of the body who represent not by the gentleman from New Hampshire, by the glowing the people.
and fanciful description we have heard of the obl gation The House of Commons has 658 representatives; of to preserve the rights of the "glorious old thirteen States," these, it is said, one-half are elected by less than six thou- why, let it be asked, do gentlemen exclude from their calsand persons, and many of the others, in consequence of culations "glorious” little Delaware? Why is she to be the means and the influence by which they are elected, made the scapegoat? It is said by some, they have no are submissive to the will of some of the lordlings in the fears of increasing the numbers of this House; that they aristocratic branch of the Government. Making every are willing to have 300 or 400. One gentleman went so far deduction for those who, on all accounts, have but little as to say he should not care if it was 800, (Mr. Burges.) sympathy with the great body of the people, and feel no Why, then, do not they propose to restore to Delaware responsibility to them, it may be assumed that there are that portion of which she was, as they now think, despoil. not more than 250 members in that body, constituting any ed, unjustly, in 1822? No one ventures to make such a thing like a really popular representation; notwithstand-proposition; and yet we are urged to respect the rights of ing all these difficulties, with a powerful enemy in their "the old thirteen." own camp, the House of Commons, backed by the force Another argument which has been relied on, is, that one of popular opinion, have carried every point in favor of strong objection, with many, to the adoption of this conpopular rights for which they have strenuously contended stitution, was, that it did not sufficiently secure an adeagainst an hereditary, irresponsible monarch, and an aris-quate representation. It is true that this objection was tocratic House of Lords. There is no ground for the ap- made along with an infinite number of the same descripprehension that Executive influence will overshadow and tion, which, I thank Heaven, were disregarded, and in corrupt this House.
relation to which experience has shown the sagacious fore. Gentlemen have said that if ever the liberties of the sight of the convention, in which, I believe, was assembled country are endangered, it is through the power of this more wisdom, purity, and disinterested patriotism, than is House that they are to be preserved; and that consequent-ever likely again to assemble in any conventional body in ly its number ought to be increased. My apprehensions the tide of time. The objection just mentioned was made are of an opposite character. I trust no such catastrophe by the celebrated Virginia orator, Patrick Henry. He awaits us from any quarter; but if ever it does come, I think thought that the constitution ought to have provided that there is much reason to fear that it will be traced to the there should always be one representative to every 30,000. growing influence of this Government, and especially of If he had lived until this day, when, according to that this bolly; and that here the liberties of this country will rule, there would have been about 400 members here, he be frittered away, and ultimately cloven down. would have congratulated the country that bis objection
Already, by the exercise of powers, to say the least of did not prevail. Another objection, strenuously made by very questionable authority, and which are felt to be him, was, that, under the constitution, it was in the power grievously oppressive by a large minority of the people of Congress to adopt the population of the largest State and the States, the country is brought to a condition which as the ratio, and thus have only twenty-four members in produces a chill of horror in the breast of every patriot, the House of Representatives. Experience has shuwn when he contemplates its possible, nay, probable conse how entirely groundless such an apprehension was; it could quences.
not but be so. There is much more danger of our inSo far as relates to the immediate consequences of creasing the House too rapidly than too slowly. It is the adopting either 44, 48, or 50,000, it is, perhaps, not a individual interest of every member not to diminish the matter of any very great importance. But I think it wise numerical force of the State, because his own chance of that we should not go on to add to the numbers of this re-election is much stronger in tlie same or a smaller than House too rapidly; and I object to the idea of retaining in a new and larger district. In point of fact, the House such a ratio as would preserve to the thirteen old States has had an increase about 40 members at each census their existing representation. They are nearly stationary but the last, wiien it was 32. in population, while the young and Aourishing States of The States of New York, Virginia, and New Hamp. the West are growing fast. The constitution secures to shire, bave furnished an exposition of the true character them a ratable representation; and if the number of the and extent of the jealousy wbich was felt towards the new
Jax. 26, 1832.]
(H. OF R.
constitution, in respect to the number of representatives. ratio of 50,000, which would give 222 members in this Each of these States proposed an amendment almost lite- body, which he thought large enough, if not too large; rally the same, and to this effect, that Congress should be 48,000 would give a House of 237, and 44,000 a House of compelled to give a representative for every 30,000, until 259. the whole number of representatives should amount to He did not desire the committee to suppose he meant 200, and that number to be continued or increased at the to make any claims to peculiar or exclusive disinteresteddiscretion of Congress. Considering that this amendment ness. He might be biassed by collateral considerations; was dictated by a jealous apprehension that Congress but, if so, it was unconsciously. At 50,000, Virginia would would be unwilling to increase the number of representa- lose two members, and have a pretty large fraction, but tives, it is a pretty strong indication of the opinion of the she lost no relative strength; and, as to the fractions, he conventions of those States, that 200 was a sufficiently nu- did not regard them as worthy of any attention. merous boly. We have already exceeded that number, It being now about four o'clock, and I am disinclined to a much larger increase.
Mr. McDUFFIE expressed his earnest hope that the Some gentlemen seem to be prodigiously annoyed with committee would not rise until they were rearly to report these fine mahogany desks, and seem disposed to impute the bill. Public business pressed, and many interests to them all the disoriler and noise that attenus our delibe. were suffering from the delay of the appropriation bills. rations. For my own part, while I care nothing about He should be compelled to move their consideration on the the desks, I should be very sorry to have their places sup- next day for public business, unless the discussion on the plied by 213 additional members, who, I believe, would present bill should speedily he terminated. cost more money, do more inischief, and make more noise Mr POLK made a brief reply to some of the remarks --[Here some gentleman near Mr. P. sail, in an under of Mr. Wayne, which he conceived to bear hardly on tone, "perhaps they might be wise men:") He resumed Tennessee and on the select committee: also to some ob--ay, sir, ifth y were wise men, it would make no difference servations elicited by a remark made (aside) by Mr. Thomin my opinion. When I say so, I speak in the spirit of a son, of Ohio. sentiment of Mr. Madison's, in one of the letters of Publius, Mr. WAYNE explained: again disclaimed all intention in which he was describing the tendency of a large delic of reflecting on the gentleman from Tennessee, or the berative assembly to be disorderly and rumultuous--"If committee, and marle the "amende honorable” to Mr. every Athenian citizen had been a Socrates, every Athe. Thomson, if he had unintentionally wounded his feelnian assembly would still have been a mob.”
ings. Mr. P. said he should vote against 44,000 and against The call for the question was now loud in all parts of 48,000--he was in favor of 50,000. There is only one the House. thing which has induced me to hesitate about it. It will Mr. HUBBARD, of New Hampshire, rose, and observ. deprive Rhode Island of one moiety of her representation. ed that, although the mover of the amendment, he bad not I regret the consequence; but Rhode Island can have no yet been heari in its behalf. right to complain.
After some informal conversation, in which it was agreed "It is but even-handed justice
that he should reserve his remarks until the bill came into That doth commend the posuned chalice
the House, To her uwn lips,"
Mr. HUBBARD resigned the floor. of which she, by her representatives, in 1822, made her Mr. TAYLOR, of New York, observing that on former little sister Delaware to drink.
occasions the apportionment bill had not been passed until Where is the justice of leaving that State with one re- Marchi, moved for the rising of the committee. presentative, and a very large fraction, for the last ten The motion was negatived--yeas 73, nays 86. years, while Rhode Island came just within the notch Mr. McDUFFIE expressed his hope that Mr. HUBBARD which gave her two representatives, with a fraction of a would now address the committee. little more than 1,000?' And now asks to have her same Mr. H. declined. representation continued, with another fraction of a little The question was then plit on Mr. HUB BARD's amend. more than 1,000; while the same comparative injustice ment, (to strike out forty-eight thousand and insert forty, and inequality is inflicted upon Delaware. Why should four thousand as the ratio of representation,) and decided it be so. The representatives of Rhode Island, in 1822, in the negative--yeas 81, nays 105. actuated, no doubt, by regard to the general weal, assist Mr. WICKLIFFE now moved that the committee rise, ed at the sacrifice of Delaware, and cannot complain if and report the bill to the House. we, impelled by similar motives, make Rhode Island sub. Mr. HOWARD, of Maryland, said he had an amendment mit to a similar sacrifice. Other considerations make me which he felt constrained to offer, however reluctant to less unwilling to diminish the numerical strength of the detain the committee. He then moved to strike out the small States. Their representatives are always uniter--301, and insert the 6th of March, in the bill; the effect of move in solid column. Since I have been a member of which amendment, if adopted, would be to give to the this House, I do not believe there has been a single occa- several States at the next Presidential election the weight sion on which the two gentlemen from Rhode Island have they possess at present, and not that to which they will be voted upon opposite sides of any important question. entitled under the new census. They have voted with the force of a corporal unit, with Mr. H. commenced a course of remark in support of two votes. They represent a people whose interests are his motion; but very shortly yielded to a motion that the homogeneous. But propose any question you please, and committee rise, which was carried. the twenty-two members from Virginia are uniformly divided. We represent a large community, whose interests
THURSDAY, JANUARY 26. and opinions are not similar, or are supposed not to be so; and our effective strength is less than that of some of the lution moved by Mr. Jarvis on the 19th instant, in rela
The House again resumed the consideration of the resothird-rate States. In the last Presidential election, Delaware was stronger than New York; and besides all this, when it was, after debate,
tion to delays in executing printing ordered by the House; the small States are amply compensated for any apparent inequality to which they may be subjected here, by the
Ordered, That the said resolution do lie on the table. equal representation they have in the Senate, and more
THE JUDICIARY. than compensated.
The question pending yesterday when the House proMr. P. concluded by saying that he was in favor of a ceeded to the orders of the day, viz. Will the House pro