JAN. 31, 1832.]

Apportionment Bill.

[H. of R.

and naval, in the service of the United States, on the 30th of September, 1829,” prepared in pursuance of a resolution of Congress adopted in April, 1816. That resolution requires the compilation of this register at the Department of State, and its delivery to the members of the two Houses on the first Monday of January succeeding the commencement of each Congress. A due compliance with this requisition would have enabled me to ascertain, more perfectly than I now can, the present extent of the patronage exercised under the appointing power.

increase of the number of this body; that it is even now "a register of all the officers and agents, civil, military, too numerous for a legislative assembly; and that the prompt despatch of the public business would be greatly facilitated by its reduction. There exists, sir, in my view, a total misapprehension on this subject. The delays complained of are not chargeable to an excess of numbers. They result from the nature and extent of the subject of your legislation. What are they? They embrace within their wide and comprehensive range, your foreign relations--your army-your navy--your fortifications-your commerce and manufactures--your finances--your public lands--your Indian relations--your Post Office Department--and the claims of your revolutionary soldiers, and others; besides various other matters of greater or less general interest, which are constantly urged upon the consideration of Congress. And all this connected with the endlessly diversified interests of thirteen millions of people, spread over an extent of territory greater than the entire continent of Europe--delays! Why, sir, who does not see in all this, causes of protracted legislation, over which any limitation of numbers could have and ought to have no control--causes which would operate with equal force, whether our numbers be one hundred or three #hundred?

From the best sources of information thus within my reach, it appears that there are in the service of the United States, connected with its foreign department, agents of various grades, to the number of about one hundred and seventy: in the various branches of the Treasury Department, including the collectors and inspectors of the customs, with their subordinates, and the surveyors, clerks, registers, and receivers, connected with the public lands, about one thousand five hundred and fifty; and in the Post Office Department, including mail contractors, about ten thousand: the whole amounting to about eleven thousand seven hundred and twenty. From the same sources, it appears that the aggregate compensation to the various But I am asked, what are the positive advantages of a officers and agents embraced in this enumeration, exceeds numerous representation in this body? I take the broad the sum of three million two hundred thousand dollars ground, in the first place, that a large representation here annually. The number of officers and agents of various is necessary to maintain our republican institutions in their grades, in the War and Navy Departments, is about two purity and vigor. Sir, this is the people's Government. thousand five hundred-the aggregate of whose compenRecognising no "divine right" in any man or set of men sations I have not been able, with as much precision as in to govern them, "the people of the United States" have the other departments, to ascertain, but which, it is beordained and established the constitution under which we lieved, may be safely estimated at a sum not less than one are now acting. The strength of this Government is in million eight hundred thousand dollars. public opinion--in the confidence and attachment of the people. Would you give to it stability and permanency? Strengthen that confidence and attachment, by every means in your power. Bring the Government, through a numerous representation here, as near to the people as possible. The farther it is removed from them, the weaker Now, sir, let it be remembered that all this vast amount #becomes the bond which binds them to it, and the more of patronage is either directly or indirectly at the disposal controlling the tendencies which twenty-four State Go- of one man-exercised agreeably to the dictates of his own vernments are unceasingly exerting in an opposite direc-will, and independent of the people's immediate repretion. I would not, if I could, enlarge the powers now sentatives in this body. And so far as they may be disconferred on this Government by the constitution. Upon posed to exert an influence against its abuse, the very a fair and just construction of that instrument, they are power which it confers may be exerted to seduce them 6 amply sufficient for all the beneficial purposes contemplat- into an acquiescence in that abuse. ed by it. But give it the most enlarged and liberal con- I know the constitution interposes a check, in the adstruction which has ever been contended for, and it will vising power of the Senate. But the most rigid exercise yet be incapable of accomplishing the purposes of its crea- of that power cannot prevent the grossest favoritism in the tion, unless its administration finds a support in the all-dispensation of Executive patronage--a patronage which * sustaining power of public opinion. Every additional inakes the Chief Magistrate the centre of an influence exrepresentative in this body adds one to the ties which bind erting itself, with various effect, upon an army of more the people to their Government, and its several parts to than fourteen thousand officers scattered over the face of our whole country.

each other.

It thus appears that there are connected with the five Executive Departments of this Government more than fourteen thousand officers and agents of various grades, the aggregate of whose compensations amounts to the sum of about five millions of dollars annually.

But, sir, there is yet another advantage resulting from But suppose, sir, that some President should arise, who, a numerous representation here, of great and paramount under the authority which the constitution confers to "fill importance. A large popular representation in this body, vacancies which may happen during the recess of the SeIregard as an indispensable protection against the en- nate," should assume the power to create those vacancies croachments of Executive power. Sir, it is no visionary for the sole purpose of filling them. I fervently hope the enthusiasm which admonishes me of the existence of this time may be far, very far distant, when such a power shall danger. All history is full of instruction on this subject. be exercised. But it is not too much to suppose that, in Power in the hands of an individual, I care not whether the progress of national degeneracy, that time may come. he be an elected President, or an hereditary King, has Now, sir, with the assumption of such a power, where always been peculiarly liable to abuse, and always will be. would be the check to the influence which the vast amount From the ample powers which the constitution confers of Executive patronage confers upon your Chief Magison your Chief Magistrate, I select but a single one as an trate? It cannot be found in any power which the constiillustration of my remark. It is the power of appointment. tution directly confers upon this House; and in the case And permit me, sir, to glance, for a moment, at the ex-supposed, the power of the Senate is, in effect, annihilattent to which the administration of this Government need. Where, then, shall we look for it? In the power of cessarily involves the exercise of this power, and the vast the people, it will be readily answered. But is there no patronage which is thus directly and indirectly concen- way in which that power can be felt, but when it is exertrated in the hands of a single man. I am guided in my cised directly in the election of the President?--and none inquiries by the "Blue Book" of 1830, which contains in which it can be brought to bear more speedily upon

H. OF R.]

Apportionment Bill.

[JAN. 31, 1832.

Executive abuses, than in that election? There is: this patronage of your Chief Magistrate is capable of directing House consists of the representatives of the people. They this all-powerful agent against every member of this body. are elected once in two years; while the President holds Let the administration of this Government arrive at the his office for twice that period. Give, then, to the peo- point of making the conductors of the public press the ple a numerous representation in this body; and, although objects of its special regard, for the purpose of rewarding there may be no specific corrective power vested in it by their partisan services, and binding them to its support, the constitution, there may yet be exercised a moral and there is not a member of this House who may not be power-a power inherent in a numerous assembly of re- made to feel its power! presentatives, coming directly from the midst of the people, which no man, not utterly insensible to the force of public opinion, can long resist.

But how, I am asked, will this evil be diminished by in creasing the number of this body? Sir, can the power of conferring one hundred tempting appointments exert the But there is another aspect in which this evil is to be same degree of influence on a body of four hundred as on a regarded. It is the influence which the Chief Magistrate body of one hundred men? Does not the negative of this is capable of exerting, in various ways, upon this body, proposition approach as near to mathematical certainty, as either for the purpose of subduing its opposition to an un- can any political proposition? And, besides, there is somedue exercise of his patronage, or for the purpose of car- thing in the very magnitude of a numerous body of the rying his favorite measures. But how can this fearful people's representatives, which insensibly rebukes the prepower be brought to bear, successfully, upon this House? sumption that dares approach it with the seductions of paI answer, by holding out to its members the allurements tronage, or the denunciations of power: while the nearer of Executive favor. I will not detain the House by going the representative is brought to his constituents, the more into an argument to prove this; but will content myself will he imbibe their spirit-a spirit which patronage canwith the production of an authority, which, sir, with your not seduce, nor power subdue. permission, I will read. It is that of the individual who is now Chief Magistrate of the United States.

To give, therefore, the greatest effect to the popular will in this body, let the number of its members be increased to the highest point consistent with practicable legislation; and let them be elected by districts, and on the same day, throughout the United States. Thus will this body be brought near to the people; become a just and true representation of their interests and feelings; present a strong barrier to the encroachments of Executive power, and answer the great ends of its original institution.

The great agent of reform in Europe is physical force. But while abuses there are assailed by mobs, it is the peOn the 7th of November, 1825, General Jackson com- culiar glory of our institutions, that here they may be as municated to the Legislature of Tennessee his resignation sailed successfully at the ballot box. Let there be given of his seat in the Senate of the United States. In that to this remedy its highest possible effect. To do this, sir, communication, after alluding to a proposed amendment the body over which you preside should be made a corto the constitution relative to the election of President rect barometer of public opinion. Where, let me ask, is and Vice President, he says: "I venture fully to accord there any other? The President is elected once in four with you in the contemplated change proposed to the con-years--the Senators in six. Here is the place where the stitution, and indeed would go further. With a view to slightest change in public opinion should be immediately sustain more effectually, in practice, the axiom which di-indicated; and here, if the people are true to themselves, vides the three great classes of power into independent it will be indicated with unerring certainty. constitutional checks, I would impose a provision rendering any member of Congress ineligible to office, under the General Government, during the term for which he was elected, and for two years thereafter, except in cases of judicial office. The effect of such a constitutional provision is obvious. By it, Congress would, in a considerable degree, be free from that connexion with the Executive Department, which, at present, gives strong, ground of apprehension and jealousy on the part of the people. Members, instead of being liable to be withdrawn from legislating on the great interests of the nation, through prospects of Executive patronage, would be more liberally confided in by their constituents; while their vigilance would be less interrupted by party feelings and party excitements. Calculations from intrigue or management would fail; nor would their deliberations, or their investigation of subjects, consume so much time. But if this change in the constitution should not be obtained, and important appointments continue to devolve on the representatives in Congress, it requires no depth of thought to be convinced that corruption will become the order of the day, and that, under the garb of conscientious sacrifices to establish precedents for the public good, evils of serious importance to the freedom and prosperity of the republic may arise. It is through this channel that the people may expect to be attacked in their constitutional sovereignty, and where tyranny may well be apprehended to spring up, in some favorable emergency."

Sir, who will undertake to dispute this authority? If it be true, then, that Executive patronage possesses the power of seducing the members of this body by direct offers to them of the honors and emoluments of office, it is equally true that it may be exerted upon them by the appointment of the friends they may desire to serve. Who can calculate the extent of the influence which the President, through the thousands of offices directly or indirectly within his gift, may thus be able to command?

But there is another instrument which may be wielded with still greater efficacy. It is the press. Yes, sir, the

A word, sir, in reply to an objection which has been urged, and I shall have done.

We are often told that there is too much debating in this body, and that it will be increased with an increase of the numbers. Why, sir, for what do we come here? To legislate upon the interests of a great nation. And what body ever legislated safely without deliberation, or deliberated profitably without discussion. Make this House more, or make it less numerous, and speeches will still be made, and the same time consumed by debate that is now consumed. Sir, it must be so. We represent a talking people. And why are they such? Because they are a free people. We talk because we are their representatives, sent here to discuss and deliberate upon subjects which deeply concern them. And this deliberation and discussion accomplishes but half its purpose, if it is not so conducted as to give to those who sent us here the reasons of the results to which our deliberations and discussions may bring us.

Our legislation necessarily embraces a wide range of inquiry. The laws we enact are the people's laws, and we act on them; while, as their agents, we are directly responsible to them for the administration of their Government. But how are they to understand our legislation, and hold us to a just accountability for its correctness? I answer, in the first place, by a perusal of the debates of this body. They should possess the means of going along with us in our investigations, so that they may understandingly approve or disapprove our decisions. In the next place, let the laws we pass, of a public nature, be published in

JAN. 31, 1832.]

this all.

ment.

every newspaper throughout the United States. The the committee who reported this bill, which, in the opipeople should know, or possess the means of knowing,nion of gentlemen, gives Tennessee such undue advanwhat their agents have done, as well as their reasons for tages? Sir, they come from five different States--Louisidoing it. And last, though not least, let the people have a ana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and Tennessee--the numerous representation in this body, to the end that the chairman happening to be from Tennessee. Do gentlerepresentatives may be brought into the nearest possible men think that the chairman had such influence with the intimacy with their constituents. They are the agents to committee as to induce them to report a bill merely to whom the people have committed the high trust of making favor Tennessee? I do not believe, sir, that the chairman laws for them. And if there is any agency on earth, in had any such influence; and I think the committee will which, more than in any other, it is necessary that the will deny that they were under any such. of the principal should be known, and, when known, Sir, my colleagues have again and again assured the obeyed, it is this. The intercourse of the representative House that they were not wedded to 48: that they felt with the people should, therefore, be unrestrained. He very indifferent as to the number which should be adoptshould freely mingle with them, not for the mere purpose ed. For my own part, Mr. Speaker, so far from being of courting their favor, and securing their votes, but for wedded to this number, I have invariably, when the questhe far higher and nobler, and more useful purpose of tion came up, voted in favor of all numbers which have imbibing their spirit-of entering into their feelings-of been proposed under 48.. understanding their character-of appreciating their When the apportionment was first mooted, I am free to wants, and of comprehending their true interests. Nor is confess, sir, that my feelings were enlisted on the side of high numbers. The first consideration which gave my The character of the representative will thus become mind a different direction was not the great principle insensibly moulded into that of the honest, unsophisticated which now governs me. I am frank to confess, sir, that people whom he represents; while they, in turn, may de- I was actuated by a desire that our little sister, Rhode rive a corresponding benefit from his intelligence and Island, should not be shorn of any of her strength in this intimate acquaintance with the operations of their Govern- House. But, sir, the more I have looked into this subject, Thus acting and reacting on each other, there the further the discussion of fundamental principles has will insensibly be produced that identity of feeling and been pushed, the more and more have I been inclined to purpose which can alone preserve in its purity the true the opinion that there is more danger in making this representative principle of our Government. House too small, than in making it too large. Ours is a Finally, by putting into the hands of the people, as far Government composed of different features. This House as practicable, the debates of this and the co-ordinate constitutes the republican feature. This House constibranch of the Government; by placing within the reach tutes the branch of the Government with which the people of them all the results of our legislation; and by a free are most familiar, and most intimately and vitally connectand familiar intercourse of the representatives with their ed. I grant, sir, that there is a point at which its numconstituents, the tone of the public mind will become bers must be limited; but in my humble opinion that point elevated, and the spirit of investigation aroused--a spirit, is not yet reached. Sir, I must stop; for I find myself insir, which forms the conservative principle of this Govern- voluntarily going into the general discussion, which I did ment, and is the life and soul and glory of our republican not intend to do, and which I will not do. I rose merely, institutions. as I before stated, to correct what I thought to be an erMr. Speaker, to me this question, independent of its roneous impression. I wished to show gentlemen that bearing upon the State I have the honor, in part, to repre- Tennessee sought no undue advantage over her sisters. sent, is one of great general importance, and I have, That, if fortune had thrown a seeming advantage in her therefore, thus long trespassed on your patience. In re- way, she was still disposed to be liberal; and even disposed gard to the extent to which this body may properly be to yield a portion of her good fortune, to the end that increased, I profess not to have any "golden number." power and burden might be more equally distributed. The objections I have urged against the ratio of repre- Sir, I repeat that I have, on every vote taken to strike out sentation proposed in the bill on your table, founded upon and fill with a less number than forty-eight, voted for it. its unequal and unjust operation, appeared to me unan- I felt that in doing so I was truly representing the feelings swerable. The ratio of 44,000, which I hope may be of Tennessee. The present motion being merely to substituted for it, while it does justice to my own State, strike out 48, without offering to insert any other number, and, I believe, to all the States more effectually than any I shall be compelled to vote against it. If the motion can other, will give a House of Representatives approximat- be so modified as to insert another number in lieu of 48, ing nearer to what I believe it may safely and usefully be, I will still vote as heretofore. I do not wish, Mr. Speaker, than the ratio contained in the bill. I hope, therefore, to dictate to this House the course they should pursue; that 48,000 may be stricken out. but of one thing I feel pretty certain, and that is, that Mr. ARNOLD, of Tennessee, said he had not intended not much good will result from further discussion on this to say one word on this subject, nor did he then rise for subject. The question has been thoroughly and ably disthe purpose of discussing the general question, or of con- cussed. My friend from Vermont, who has just taken his troverting any of the principles which had been so forci- seat, has occupied the whole ground. As to his general bly urged upon the House by his friend from Vermont; views on the subject, I yield them my most decided apbut he rose for the purpose of correcting an impression probation. And, in conclusion, sir, I must do him the which seemed to have stimulated various gentlemen in justice to say that I have been much interested and gratifirunning tilts at Tennessee. The number 48, sir, happens ed with the expanded and statesmanlike views which he to be the number selected by the committee to fill the has expressed on the subject. blank in the bill now under consideration. That number Mr. KERR, of Maryland, supported the motion to strike leaves Tennessee a very small fraction. Tennessee does out, since he preferred the number "44." He argued seem to be favored by the selection which the committee in favor of a numerous House, and against large electoral have made; I am willing to agree, sir, that she is actually districts, as naturally leading to the improper predomifavored by this selection. But I will not agree that Tennes-nance of a caucus. Mr. K. contended that in a small see has sought this favor, or that she has any desire to House there would be quite as much speaking, greater adhere to it for the purpose of disparaging her sisters. rivalship, and more personality.

No, sir; I assure gentlemen that Tennessee has no such Mr. LAMAR demanded the yeas and nays on the quesfeelings. Tennessee is no hucksteress. Whence came [tion of striking out, and they were ordered by the House.

VOL. VIII.-107

H. OF R.]

Chickasaw Treaty.

[FEB. 1, 1832.

Mr. WILDE, of Georgia, appealed to all those who Chickasaw Indians in 1830, coming up for consideration preferred any other number to "48," urging them to as the unfinished business of yesterday morning, vote for the amendment. This offensive number once out of the bill, the question would then be taken on the lowest number proposed, and so upward, until they arrived at a number which should unite a majority of the

House.

The SPEAKER reminded Mr. WILDE that the rules of the House required an opposite course, and that the vote should first be taken on the highest number proposed. Mr. WILDE argued to show that such ought not to be the rule, and quoted Jefferson's Manual with a view to prove that it was not.

The question on striking out "48" from the bill was now put, and decided by yeas and nays, as follows:

Mr. HUNTINGTON, of Connecticut, said that he had hoped not to trespass long upon the time of the House, in the remarks which he should make in support of the resolution. There appeared to be no opposition manifested, from any quarter of the House, to the call proposed to be made on the Executive, excepting on account of its supposed interference with the constitutional prerogatives of other departments of the Government. The gentleman from Tennessee, at the head of the Committee on Indian Affairs, [Mr. BELL,] had frankly avowed that he had no scruples of this sort. The gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. WICKLIFFE,] while he was anxious that every proper investigation should be pursued, to ascertain YEAS.--Messrs. Adams, Adair, Chilton Allan, Allison, whether any wrong had been done, regardless of the inAngel, Appleton, Armstrong, John S. Barbour, Barstow, dividuals on whom the consequences might fall, suggested I. C. Bates, Bergen, Bouck, Bouldin, Briggs, John C. that he felt embarrassed with this difficulty: that, as the Brodhead, John Brodhead, Bullard, Cahoon, Cambreleng, resolution did not indicate that the information which it Carson, Chandler, Choate, Clayton, Coke, Collier, L. sought was required with a view (if the facts would auCondict, Corwin, Crane, Creighton, John Davis, Warren thorize it) to institute an impeachment, it might interfere R. Davis, Dayan, Dearborn, Dickson, Doddridge, George with the treaty-making power, which, by the constitution, Evans, E. Everett, H. Everett, Gaither, Gordon, Gren- was vested in the President and Senate. The gentleman nell, Hammons, Harper, Hawes, Hoffman, Hogan, How- from South Carolina, [Mr, MITCHELL,] without expressard, Hubbard, Hughes, Hunt, Jenifer, R. M. Johnson, ing what were his wishes as to the call, was of opinion Kendall, Kerr, Lamar, Lecompte, Letcher, Lyon, Mason, that the subject was exclusively an Executive matter; or, Marshall, Mercer, Newnan, Newton, Patton, Pearce, Pen- if injustice had been done to the Indians, they might be dleton, Pierson, Pitcher, J. Reed, E. C. Reed, Roane, Root, relieved by a bill in equity. Slade, Soule, Southard, Spence, Stanberry, Taylor, F. Thomas, W. Thompson, Tompkins, Vance, Washington, Watmough, Wayne, Weeks, Wilkin, Wheeler, C. P. White, E. D. White, Wickliffe, Wilde, Williams, Worthington.-94.

Mr. H. said his object in addressing the House was to show that the proposed call upon the Executive, viewed with reference to all the facts and circumstances which have been disclosed, would not interfere with the prerogatives of either of the other departments of the GovernNAYS.-Messrs. Alexander, Anderson, Archer, Arnold, ment; that the resolution was so framed as entirely to Babcock, Banks, Noyes Barber, Barnwell, Barringer, avoid any conflict with the constitutional power of the James Bates, Beardsley, Bell, Bethune, John Blair, Boon, President and Senate; and that the House had not only a Branch, Bucher, Burd, Burges, Carr, Chinn, Claiborne, perfect right to ask for the information, but, in view Clay, Conner, E. Cooke, B. Cooke, Cooper, Coulter, of the disclosures which had been made by his friend from Craig, Crawford, Davenport, Denny, 'Dewart, Double- Massachusetts, [Mr. EVERETT,] it was the imperious duty day, Drayton, Duncan, Ellsworth, J. Evans, Felder, of the House to institute an inquiry into the matter referFitzgerald, Ford, Gilmore, Griffin, T. H. Hall, W. Hall, red to in the resolution--a duty demanded by consideraHawkins, Heister, Holland, Horn, Huntington, Ihrie, In- tions intimately connected with the character of the gersoll, Irvin, Isacks, Jarvis, Jewett, Cave Johnson, C. C. Government and the honor of the nation. And he hoped Johnston, Kavanagh, A. King, J. King, H. King, Lansing, that if, in the course of his remarks, he should find it Leavitt, Lewis, Mann, Mardis, L. Maxwell, McCarty, W. necessary to comment with severity on transactions of such McCoy, R. McCoy, McDuffie, McIntire, McKennan, Milli- an extraordinary character as those which were detailed gan, T. R. Mitchell, Muhlenberg, Nuckolls, Polk, Potts, yesterday by the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. Rencher, Russel, Wm. B. Shepard, Aug. H. Shepperd, EVERETT,] or on the conduct of individuals who seemed Smith, Speight, Standifer, Stephens, Stewart, Storrs, Suth- to be implicated in them, his course would not be attributherland, P. Thomas, J. Thomson, Tracy, Verplanck, ed to any other motive than a sense of public duty, which, Wardwell, E. Whittlesey, F. Whittlesey, Young.--99. as a member of this House, he felt bound to discharge. So the House refused to strike out the number forty- He had no personal resentments to gratify, nor political obeight. jects to attain. With the Second Auditor of the Trea

Mr. HUBBARD now moved to amend the bill by strik-sury he had no acquaintance; he should not know him if ing out "forty-eight” and inserting "forty-four,” and ob- he saw him. He was also unacquainted with the late Seserved that, on account of the lateness of the hour, (it cretary of the Department of War, though he had seen being now past four o'clock,) he should waive what he considered to be his privilege of addressing the House in support of his motion, if it was its purpose then to take the question; when, on motion of Mr. CARSON,

The House adjourned.

The following was the select committee appointed by the Speaker on the memorial of the Rahway Colonization Society of New Jersey: Messrs. JENIFER, DRAYTON, MERCER, WILLIAMS, of North Carolina, WHITE, of Louisiana, CLAYTON, MARSHALL.

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 1.

CHICKASAW TREATY.

The resolution offered by Mr. EVERETT, calling for a copy of one of the sections of a treaty negotiated with the

him. He should speak of them, therefore, as public functionaries, and such only; and as connected with public transactions, and with the duties required of them by law. The resolution, as modified by the mover, requests the President of the United States to communicate to this House a copy of one of the articles of a supplemental treaty, negotiated with the Chickasaw tribe of Indians in the month of September, 1830; and of so much of the journal of the commissioners as relates to that article; and also of certain deeds or leases, referred to in the resolution. And the reasons for this call had been stated, in a very clear and explicit manner, by the gentleman who introduced the resolution, [Mr. EVERETT,] and they were such as to him [Mr. H.] appeared very satisfactory. They had relation to the rights of the Indians, and of the United States; to the duties which might devolve on this House, with reference to its public agents. The use

FEB. 1, 1832.]

Chickasaw Treaty.

[H. of R.

to be made of the information, when obtained, is to ena-citude." "With a full understanding of the subject, the ble the House to discharge every duty which, in conse- Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes have, with great unanimity, quence of it, may be required, to do justice to the Indians, determined to avail themselves of the liberal offers preto protect the property of the United States, or to vindicate the character and honor of the nation.

sented by the act of Congress, and have agreed to remove beyond the Mississippi river." In his message, at the And what, Mr. H. inquired, was the objection to this opening of the present session, he informs us that, "in call? What was the difficulty supposed to be in the way accordance with" his "recommendation at a former sesof making it? It was, that the treaty had not been ratified. sion of Congress, an appropriation of half a million of It was yet in fieri. It had not passed through the forms dollars was make to aid the voluntary removal of the varequired by the constitution, and consequently had not rious tribes beyond the limits of the States." "At the become the supreme law of the land. Hence it was in- last session, I had the happiness to announce that the ferred that it would be an unconstitutional exercise of Chickasaws and Choctaws had accepted the generous offers power on the part of this House to ask for the informa- of the Government, and agreed to remove beyond the tion which this resolution seeks to obtain, inasmuch as this Mississippi river," &c. The former Secretary of War had treaty, in its present state, is exclusively within the juris- stated, in his report, that, in negotiating this treaty, he had diction of the President and Senate. acted under the instructions of the President.

To the general position, that the constitution has vested These exchanges are thus declared to have been made the treaty-making power in the President and Senate, in pursuance of the law of 1830; and whether this treaty and that, under ordinary circumstances, a treaty unrati- is or is not to be submitted to the Senate for their advice fied and unexecuted was not to be called for by the House, and consent to its ratification, or whether the provisions of he gave his assent. And, important as he considered the the constitution, in relation to treaties generally, apply, in information asked to be, both to the House and nation, accordance with the uniform usage and practice of the and weighty as were the considerations which required it Government, to Indian treaties, (of which Mr. H. said he to be furnished, if he believed that the adoption of the entertained no doubt,) it was perhaps immaterial to inresolution would interfere with that constitutional power, quire; because the President had informed the House that which belonged to other branches of the Government, this treaty was made under the authority of a law of Conwhich he should wish always to respect and support, or gress expressly sanctioning it. Mr. H. said he still enterthat the call now proposed to be made would ever here-tained the same views, as to the nature of Indian treaties, after be used as a precedent for other calls, not attended which, at a former session, and in the debate which was with the same circumstances as the present one, he should connected with the passage of the law of 1830, he had ennot advocate the passage of the resolution. But he [Mr. deavored to sustain; but that, in respect to this treaty, the H.] did not think there was any such interference with the President appeared to have elected to treat it as having rights of the treaty-making power; or that any such pre- been made in the execution of a legislative enactment; cedent would be established, as had been intimated. There and, in this point of view, what was the question presentwere provisions, said to be contained in this treaty, ed? It was this: The President had informed us that, in and circumstances connected with its immediate execu- the execution of a trust confided to him by a law of Contion, and events following from it, communicated to the gress, he had proceeded to conclude, and partly to exeHouse by the gentleman from Massachusetts, which (if it cute, a treaty authorized to be negotiated by that law. were necessary to consider them with this view) would And what information did this resolution seek to obtain? perhaps exempt this from the rules applicable to ordinary What did the House ask? That they might be told in what treaties, and prevent the consequences which it was ap- manner this law had been in part executed. Congress prehended would follow from the adoption of the resolu- had constituted the President an agent, or commissioner, tion. It would neither infringe on the prerogative of the to exchange certain lands. He had made a treaty, in virSenate, nor establish a dangerous precedent: for, as there tue of that agency, which was "in a course of execution;" never had occurred such a transaction as this before, so and it is proposed to inquire what is the result of that it was very safe to assume that the like would never hap-agency; what has been done, by those who have exercispen again. ed powers, and executed an important public trust, con

There were several answers which might be given to ferred on them by an act of Congress. Was there the the objection raised by the gentleman from Kentucky, least difficulty in this aspect of the transaction? or could [Mr. WICKLIFFE,] who, he was convinced, was as sin- there be any impropriety in asking a public officer to cerely desirous as himself of obtaining the information state in what manner he had performed a trust commitsought, if it could be obtained in a constitutional manner. ted to him, and which he says he has executed by virtue of And the first answer was, that this treaty had been ne-a public law? Was there any want of courtesy in such an gotiated by direction of the President, in pursuance of inquiry?

the provisions of a public law authorizing it. It was not Mr. H. said he would advert to another view which concluded under the general treaty-making power vested might be taken of the subject. The President, at the by the constitution in the President and Senate, but in commencement of this session, stated to us that this treaty virtue of an act of Congress, passed May, 1830, making it was in a "course of execution," and that the removal of lawful for the President to exchange portions of the ter- the Choctaws and Chickasaws would, it was hoped, be ritory of the United States west of the river Mississippi, completed in the course of 1832. Might it not be fairly with certain Indian tribes, for lands claimed and occupied inferred from this, that the President did not deem it neby them, and lying east of that river. The Chickasaw cessary that this treaty should be submitted to the Senate? treaty was based wholly upon that law. The language Could it be supposed that he would proceed to "execute" of the President is very explicit. At the commencement a treaty, without submitting it to the Senate, if he supof the second session of the last Congress, the President in- posed their advice and consent to be necessary. And formed us, in his message, that "two important tribes" had did not this inference gain additional strength from the "accepted the provisions made for their removal at the fact that the treaty, though "in a course of execution," last session of Congress," and after referring to the bene- had been permitted to remain locked up in the Departficial consequences supposed to result from the speedy ment of War from the time it was concluded (in 1830) removal of the Indians, he adds, that "these conse- to the present time?

quences, some of them so certain, and the rest so proba- Mr. H. then proceeded to remark that the House had ble, make the complete execution of the plan sanctioned a right to know what were the stipulations in a treaty, by Congress, at their last session, an object of much soli- which was in a train of execution, and which affected the