MARCH 29, 1832.] Revolutionary Pensions. [H. OF R. trackless wilderness, before unexplored by civilized man. to loans; we owed almost one hundred millions of dollars, At night their bed was the cold ground, and the canopy of and it became absolutely necessary to retrench in our pubthe heavens their covering. And for some of the time lic expenditures. The number of revolutionary pensionthey were compelled to subsist upon the flesh of dogs. ers had somewhat exceeded the expectation of the friends This man was at the storming of Quebec, under the chi- of the bill of 1818. I am sensible, Mr. Chairman, that valrous Montgomery, and there was taken prisoner, and objections on this floor frequently have been urged with confined in a dungeon, where his sufferings were almost in- great spirit against the extension or even existence of a credible. He was finally released, and found his way pension system in this country; and yet it strikes me that home. By misfortune he has become reduced, and is now those objections are not well founded. Our ideas of the the inmate of an almshouse. I have applied to the War odious nature of a pension system are derived from foreign Office to have his name inserted upon the pension roll, countries--from monarchial Governments, where pensions but am there informed that his case does not come with- are a matter of grace and favor, and allowed to those fawnin the existing pension acts, because he enlisted before ing sycophants, those servile tools of power, who are the formation of the continental establishment; and, also, the inmates of courts, and not founded upon the performthough he was absent from home more than eighteen ance of services to the country at large. In this country months, his original enlistment to go to Canada was only we have no secret service money fund, to compensate for a term of eight months. Such glaring injustice calls services, and without accountability in its disbursement for a remedy. And yet this is but a single instance of on the part of those to whom it is entrusted. many which are extremely hard. But, sir, technically Here no pensions can be granted without the legislation legal proof to make out a service, in all cases, ought not of Congress. Here a pension is not an allowance without to be demanded, because frequently it does not exist in an equivalent, but a compensation for eminent and disthe world. Most of the soldiers of the revolution are tinguished services faithfully performed, and usually not dead, and the few survivors are scattered wide apart before requited. They never have been granted in this throughout the whole country. They are old and infirm, country except for military and naval services in the reand sometimes those of the same regiment or corps are volutionary war, and for disabilities incurred. And this unknown to each other. A lapse of fifty years has fright-system never will be carried to a dangerous extent here fully diminished their number. In some instances, not more until our Government shall be sapped to its foundation, than a single one of those who formed a whole company is and moral principle and patriotism shall cease to exist in known to be alive. Revolutionary services are matters of the breasts of our citizens. Our pension system can form tradition, general understanding, and neighborhood belief. no precedent for cases different in their nature from those The judge who receives the proof of service, knows now embraced. This country never again can dawn into the character of the applicant and his reputation for cre-existence as heretofore. We never again can be engaged dibility, and can also determine, for the most part, what in a war upon the same principles and under the same weight is to be attached to the corroborative testimony in- circumstances as in our revolutionary struggle. Contrast troduced by him. Who is so competent to decide correct- the situation of the soldiers of the late war with those in ly upon the validity of the testimony as a judge residing the revolution. The former were well fed, paid, and in the immediate neighborhood? It is true he may be de- clothed. They fought under an established Government, ceived, for who is infallible! But I trust not often. It able to enforce the rules of civilized warfare-they rewas remarked the other day by the gentleman from North ceived large bounties; such men, with an ill grace, could Carolina, [Mr. SPEIGHT,] that should that section of the bill apply for pensions at a future day. But no argument has pass which regulates the mode of proving service, fre- ever been urged with more pertinacity against the passage quent perjuries would be committed. But I disagree of laws granting pensions, than that too great a charge with him in opinion-under the existing law, the crime will be created on the treasury. Let us examine this oboccasionally is committed, but I think but seldom-though jection in relation to the bill now before us. But I might even at the Pension Office the charge is frequently reite- say, if this is a debt of justice, if within the pecuniary rated. I have never known but one conviction in the ability of Government, it ought to be cancelled. From section of the country which I represent, and I always the last annual report of the Secretary of War, it will be thought that the complaint, in that case, originated in seen that, nominally, on the pension roll there are 11,876 malice, and that the conviction was unjust, and such was persons, and the amount of warrants issued for their paypublic opinion. For my own part, I do believe that the ment the last year was $1,005,632 78. I say nominally, greatest temptations to commit this crime will be remov-because from the report before us it appears, by the stateed, by not requiring a schedule of property to be exhi-ment of the head of the Pension Office, that one-sixth of this bited. It is fairly to be presumed that men more than number have not called for their pensions the last year, and threescore and ten, and literally standing on the confines are presumed to be dead. And the Third Auditor says, of the grave, would not often commit a crime involving that, on examining the agents' returns for September, 1831, so much moral turpitude as that of perjury. But it is said as well as his own books, it appears that 1,996, who were that the rich would receive the benefits of this bill as well on the roll in March, 1829, have not called for their penas the poor, because there is no restriction as to the amount sions, and are presumed to be dead. After making the of property to be owned by the applicant. Sir, but few proper deductions, it will appear that not more than 10,060, of the rich are now to be found among the soldiers of the besides 855 who were provided for by the act of 1828, in revolution; and if the country does owe a just debt, why the whole amounting to 10,915, now receive revolutionary should any be excluded? I have always considered the pensions, and requiring an expenditure not much exceedact of 1820 requiring the applicant to come into a court ing one million of dollars annually. The largest number of record and publicly proclaim his poverty, (and abject that ever was on the roll at any one time was 16,144, and it must be to bring him under the act,) as a foul blot up- this was before the act of 1820, the operations of which on our statute book. Sir, it would seem that some re- at the time reduced the number one-half. The question spect ought to be paid to the high-minded and honorable then will recur, what will be the additional amount of exfeelings of a soldier; and I do say that nothing but the penditure annually required to carry into effect the propeculiar situation of the country at the time of the passage of that law would have induced its passage. Call to mind, Mr. Chairman, the circumstances under which the act of 1820 passed: our commerce had become depressed; our revenues diminished; we had been obliged to resort visions of the bill now before us? From the most authentic records now extant, and the resolves of the old Congress, it will appear that the entire number of officers and soldiers on the continental establishment from the commencement to the termination of the war was 231,816, and H. OF R.] Revolutionary Pensions. [MARCH 29, 1832. by applying the rules showing the decrement of human who receive this annuity; (it is not called a pension in the life adopted by the committee, and which, I believe, in act;) a few of those originally embraced have passed to their application to the case before us, to be correct, and their graves since its passage. Mr. Chairman, this insusuch is their conclusion, the whole number of continental lated fact, in my mind, outweighs volumes of speculative soldiers now surviving cannot exceed 12,632. I will not calculations. But, sir, if we do owe a debt to the soldiers detain the committee by particularly detailing the process of the revolution, whether the same be strictly a legal one, of calculation through which this conclusion is reached, but or founded merely in equity, whether the appeal is made would refer the committee to the table of numerical cal- to our justice or to the gratitude and generosity of the culation now before us; and this will leave only 1,717 on country, we ought to hasten and requite it. No stathis establishment unprovided for, under the existing law.tute of limitation or prescription ought to bar this claim. This conclusion is corroborated by the head of the depart- The country was poor; she now is rich, prosperous, men, who says, that, in his opinion, of those who enlisted and flourishing, and at peace with the world. Her for six months, not more than 1,000 remained, nor more resources are abundant, and her treasury overflowthan 1,000 of those who enlisted for nine months or long-ing. Our national debt is nearly extinguished; and we er, now unprovided for. The committee who reported are fast approaching that dangerous crisis, as some this bill, I think, have correctly assumed that not exceed term it, when cur revenue must largely exceed our ing 600 State troops, strictly so considered, now survive. expenses, and when the struggle for the distribution The same committee report, that, on examining the jour-of the surplus may seriously endanger the peace and harnals of the old Congress, about 115,000 militia during the mony of this Union. A small part of that surplus would war were called into service-a little less than one-half enable the soldiers of the revolution to spend the residue the number of regular troops. One-third of these, it is of their days in comfort and tranquillity. Death is fast calculated, were killed or died in the service, enlisted into thinning their ranks; most of the survivors are more than the regular service, or served for less than six months; seventy-two years of age, and many exceed eighty. At and that, by applying Rankin's table of the decrement of the expiration of seven years very few of them will be human life, it will appear that only about 6,472 are now alive. The expense to be accrued by the passage of this alive, making in all less than 10,000 additional men to be bill, in the first instance not large, continually will diminprovided for under this bill, many of whom would receive ish, and soon cease altogether. but two-thirds of a full pension, and requiring in the In the language of the report before us, "now is the amount an expenditure of less than one million of dollars accepted time." During the past inclement season, numannually. Is not this calculation sufficiently liberal? It bers in my district, who for years have looked to their appears by returns from the Pension Office that the whole country for long withheld justice, have departed from number of applicants to that office under the act of 1818, among us. We hardly receive a newspaper from any secfrom its passage to the date of the report on our tables, tion of the country, which does not mention the death of was only 33,515, of which number, first and last, 20,394 one or more revolutionary patriots. Should we now rehave been placed upon the list. After the passage of the Ject the bill before us, I do believe that the remnant of the act of 1818, it generally was supposed that all the soldiers little band will retire in despair, to drag out their few reof the revolution who served for nine months, including maining days in poverty, without again appealing to ConState troops and militia as well as regulars, and as well gress. Sir, by our moral action on this occasion, let us those who served at different times as continuously, were convince the world that republics are not always ungrateembraced within its provisions. And for this cause, I do ful. believe that a very great portion of the soldiers of the re- Mr. WICKLIFFE, after expressing some fear lest the volution, after the passage of that act, did apply for a pen-bill, which seemed to be a favorite, might possibly be sion to the Secretary of War. spoiled by the partiality of its friends, said that he had risen I have heard it observed, though not in this debate, as for the purpose of offering an amendment which he conan evidence of the uncertainty of all calculations as to the sidered as an act of justice to the last of the Mohicans benumber of the survivors of the revolutionary war, and the yond the mountains. In the old States, the war of the reprobable expense to be incurred by the passage of the volution was considered as having terminated at the peace bill before us, that there is a great discrepancy between of '83; but in the West, it was viewed as not having ended the estimates made by the committees of this House and till the treaty of Greenville, in 1794. Mr. W. then dwelt the Senate, which are now before us. Sir, the bills are upon the hardships, services, and merit of those who had different in their details--the one from that body providing been engaged in the Indian campaigns from '83 to '94, that those who did not serve two years should only receive and adverted by name to many of the various fields where a pro rata pension, making the minimum of service six they had distinguished themselves. He then offered the months. But, Mr. Chairman, for yet another reason, 1 following amendment: am induced to believe that the committee have not made! And be it further enacted, That the militia of the several too low an estimate. By an act of Congress, passed May States, and the officers and the soldiers of the regular 15th, 1828, full pay for life, not exceeding that of a cap-army, who were in active service and engaged in the Indian tain in the line, was granted to those officers who, by the wars, and defending the frontiers of the United States, resolve of Congress of October 21, 1780, were entitled to between the 4th of July, 1776, until the treaty of Greenreceive half pay for life, and to those soldiers who enlist- ville, in 1794, shall be entitled to the provisions of this ed in the continental army for and during the war, and bill, according to the length of their respective terms of continued to serve until its termination. This act was bas- service, in one or more terms of service, that is, when they ed on a contract entered into with a certain portion of the serve three months, one-third of a full pension, and for a officers and soldiers of the revolutionary army at a gloomy term over three months and under six months, in one or period of the war, who, by extraordinary inducements, were more terms, two-thirds of a full pension; over six months, persuaded to agree to serve until its termination. At the and equal to nine months, in one or more periods, full time the bill reported was discussed on this floor, I was a pension. member. I well recollect the gloomy forebodings of mem- Mr. THOMAS, of Louisiana, objected to a clause in the bers on that occasion as to the probably large number of amendment which (as it was first offered) went to allow this class, as well as the enormous expense which would the militia who had served six months on their own charges be incurred in carrying into effect its provisions. But half as much pension as those who had served in the revo mark the result. From authentic records, it appears that lution for nine months. He thought the allowance ought only eight hundred and fifty-five persons are now alive to be pro rata. MARCH 29, 1832.] Revolutionary Pensions. [H. OF R. Mr. WICKLIFFE admitted the force of the objection, and and that the opinion of that high tribunal would, in all thereupon modified his amendment so as to read as above. likelihood, differ from theirs. Mr. DOUBLEDAY offered an amendment, which referred to the graduation of the pension to be allowed in strict proportion to the time of service; but, on the suggestion of Mr. PENDLETON, he withdrew it. Mr. FITZGERALD suggested to Mr. WICKLIFFE to modify his amendment in such a manner as to cover the period of the war with the Southern Indians down to the peace of 1795. Mr. VANCE offered as a substitute the following: Be it further enacted, That all persons serving under the authority of the United States, either in the militia or regular service, prior to the year 1795, shall be entitled to all the benefits conferred by this act on the soldiers of the revolutionary army. Mr. WICKLIFFE, though he believed Mr. V. and himself had the same object in view, objected to the amendment as excluding a very meritorious class, whom he wished to provide for. He, therefore, could not accept it as a modification. The question was then put on Mr. VANCE's amendment, and it was rejected. Mr. CARSON suggested the propriety of including those who had volunteered on the eve of a battle, but who, after fighting bravely in the engagement, had immediately retired from the service. Mr. WICKLIFFE did not act on the suggestion. The question was then put, and Mr. WICKLIFFE's amendment was rejected. Mr. ROOT, after many warm eulogiums on the patriotism, bravery, and important services of the Green mountain boys, proposed to amend the bill by inserting between the words "continental establishment" and "State troops," the words "or in the Vermont line, or the military forces of Vermont." The question being put, Mr. Roor's amendment was agreed to. Mr. HUBBARD now offered the following amendment: after the word "privates," insert "and all officers in the hospital department and medical staff." Mr. TAYLOR, of New York, suggested the propriety of a more extensive amendment in the words following: "All persons who belonged to the ordnance, quartermas ter's, paymaster's, or commissary's department, or to the hospital department, and medical staff of the army." Mr. HUBBARD adopted this as a modification of his own amendment. It was further modified at the suggestion of Mr. WICKLIFFE, by adding the words "wagonmaster's department." Mr. HOGAN proposed to extend it yet further, so as to include "each and every person attached to the line of the army, or the militia, as guides, expresses, boatmen, or artificers." Mr. DAVIS, of Massachusetts, observed that enlisted artificers were considered as included in the existing law. Mr. HUBBARD was opposed to the amendment, as covering a class of persons who, being merely hired for the performance of services, but never enlisted as part of the army, were not entitled to pensions, and had not been intended by the committee to be included in the bill. The committee had not contemplated to extend the present bill, as to the classes included in it, beyond that of 1818. The question being put, Mr. HOGAN'S amendment was rejected. Mr. CRAIG, of Virginia, moved to amend the bill by adding, at the end of the second section, the following proviso: "Provided, nevertheless, That nothing in this act shall be, so construed as to authorize the grant of a pension to Mr. HUNT, of Vermont, after returning thanks to the any person whose wkole estate, real, personal, and mixed, gentleman from New York for his amendment, and for exclusive of necessary wearing apparel, shall not be shown, the remarks which had accompanied it, went into a very to the satisfaction of the Secretary of War, and under such animated eulogium on the conduct of the early inhabitants rules and regulations as he may prescribe, to be of less of his own State--their love of liberty, courage, fortitude, value than dollars." enterprise, early services, and vigorous efforts in esta- Mr. C. said it was scarcely necessary to add a word in blishing their own independence. It was they who had explanation of the object intended to be effected by the engaged in the first offensive acts of our revolution, long proposed amendment. It must be obvious to all. Bebefore the battles of Breeds Hill or Lexington. Mr. H. lieving it to be unjust and impolitic to grant pensions to dwelt with enthusiasm on the valor displayed at Ticonde- the rich, I, said Mr. C., have deemed it my duty, by the roga, the generosity evinced in freely surrendering all the amendment just offered, to discriminate between the rich spoil taken on that occasion, and the effective aid render- and the poor soldier of the revolutionary war: between him ed by the Vermont troops in the capture of Burgoyne, who needs and will feel the benefit of your bounty, and For all these valuable services those troops had never re-him who, being in affluence, does not need, and will not ceived from the General Government a dollar in money, put it to any beneficial purpose. I feel, as sensibly as any nor one dirty acre of the public domain. While the troops person, the strength of that obligation of gratitude under of other States were enriched, the Green mountain boys which all lie who are now in the enjoyment of the rich had asked for nothing. He concluded, by demanding as blessings which have resulted from the glorious and suca right that the bill should be so amended as to place the cessful conflict for independence, maintained by our anremnant of these troops on the same footing with the other soldiers of the revolution. Mr. PENDLETON read in its support a resolution of Congress, passed on the 23d of June, 1775, in reference to the Vermont line. Mr. HUBBARD said he had no desire to exclude these troops from the benefits of the bill, and he was of opinion that they were included within the provisions of the first section as it now stood. The first section was then read; when Mr. H. EVERETT, of Vermont, expressed the same opinion with Mr. HUBBARD. Had he not considered the Vermont troops as already provided for, he should certainly have offered an amendment to that effect. cestors, and will, as cheerfully as any other man, accord a generous relief to all the surviving soldiers of that war, who really need such relief. But, sir, I am utterly averse to the grant of pensions to those of them who are already procured with the necessaries and comforts of life. What think you of granting a pension of twenty dollars a month to General Hampton, of South Carolina, who was a lieutenant in that war, and now one of the wealthiest men in the United States? Does it not strike your mind at once as being a gross abuse of the pensionary principle? Gentlemen, in their anxieties to demonstrate their gratitude to the surviving soldiers of the revolution, seem to have overlooked some of the effects of this bill. They seem to have forgotten the sources from which the funds Mr. ROOT insisted that though the authors of the bill out of which the proposed pensions are to be paid are to might suppose its language would include the Vermont be supplied. They seem to have forgotten that the whole line, they must remember that the law was to be constru- political community, rich and poor, are to bear the taxes ed by a certain Mr. Edwards, of the War Department, by which the fund is to be constituted; and that, whilst H. OF R.] Wiscasset Collector. [MARCH 30, 1832. they are demonstrating their gratitude to the surviving I hope it will be the pleasure of the House to adopt the soldier of the revolution, by extending to him a bounty amendment. sir. he does not want, they are increasing the miseries of Mr. THOMAS, of Louisiana, spoke warmly in reply, poverty throughout the whole country by the exaction of and insisted that the claim of the revolutionary soldier unnecessary taxes. Under this bill, if it pass into a law, was a debt, and one of the most sacred kind, though every poor man who, in the course of the year, uses a it could not be exacted by force of law. He adverted to bushel of salt, every poor man who may provide a cup of tea for a sick wife or child, or a strip of flannel to protect them from the chilling winds of winter, every poor man who consumes any of the many articles subject to impost duty, will be made, in a degree, tributary to the rich surviving soldier of the revolution. Is this right, sir? Do not reason and justice revolt at it? Is it just to exact a tax, however small, from a man worth one hun- benefits we enjoyed as the fruit of what they had endurdred and fifty dollars, that you may give it to another worth five times, or a hundred times as much? To my mind, such a procedure would be an outrage upon all that is just or charitable; a miserable misdirection of benevolence, which lavishes favors on one, and leaves another to starve. It is contended, against the proposed discrimination between the rich and the poor soldier, that we owe him a debt, and that we are bound to pay it as well to the rich as to the poor. If it be true that we owe a debt to the soldiers of the revolution, collectively, then I admit we should pay it to all. But is this true? Do we owe a debt upon this ground? I can hardly think gentlemen serious in the assumption of this ground. A debt-what sort of a debt--a debt, as defined by courts of law or equity? No, What then? Why, a debt of gratitude. And, as a debt of gratitude, what does it require you to do? Does it require you to rob the poor to give to the rich? No. It requires you, in your legislative capacity, on the part of the nation, to do nothing more than you would feel yourself, as an individual, bound to do in favor of any one whom you may be bound to regard as a benefactor. illustration of the idea, let me suppose a case. Suppose that you were, at some past period of your life, a passenger in a vessel at sea; that in a storm you were washed overboard; that two sailors on board, witnessing your perilous situation, and forgetting their own safety, plunged into the dangerous waves, and bore you in safety to the ship, or neighboring land; and suppose, some twenty, thirty, or fifty years afterwards, you meet these same sailors in the city of Washington, one you find in afflu Mr. EVANS, of Maine, rose, and said: Nothing, certainence, surrounded with a plenty of the good things of this ly, was further from his expectations and his wishes, than life, the other you find in rags and poverty: what, under the occurrence, at the present time, of the debate upon these supposed circumstances, ought you to do? You the subject which now engaged the attention of the House. ought to, and you would, renew your obligation, by ac- Nor, said he, did I desire it at any time, unless upon full knowledgment to the rich sailor, and to the poor one you examination the facts which might be elicited should render would prove your grateful remembrance of his past ser- it proper and expedient that this branch of the Govern vices, by ministering, substantially, to his wants. You ment should take cognizance of the matter. I, therefore, would provide for him according to your means and his hold myself in no degree responsible for the discussion wants. Just, then, as you would feel yourself bound to which has already taken place; and I beg leave to refer act in regard to these supposed benefactors of you, you to the agency which I have already had in bringing this are bound to act, as the agent of the nation, in regard to subject to the notice of the House, and the manner of these benefactors of our common country. The rich, of doing it, to show that I have been actuated by no desire to them, need no more than an acknowledgment of the bring on a public discussion of the topics connected with value of their services; the poor alone need the pension. this subject at this stage of the inquiry. Sir, the papers It is said all the surviving soldiers of the war of the which are before us were placed in my hands for the purrevolution are poor, and, therefore, the amendment is un-pose of being presented to the consideration of the House; necessary. I deny the truth of this assertion. I deny that and, upon due examination, 1 regarded the statements they are all poor. I believe many of them to be not only which they contained proper and fit for an investigation. in the possession of competencies, but many of them to There was no other mode of bringing them to the notice be really rich, and to live in splendor. But suppose them of this body, than by a resolution; in draughting which, I all to be poor; why, then, does the gentleman from Con- endeavored to present the case in the mildest possible shape necticut [Mr. ELLSWORTH] Oppose the adoption of the toward the person accused. Neither his name, nor the amendment? Does the gentleman not perceive that, if charges against him, were embraced in it, with a view that his assumption be correct, no injury can be done? The they might not be spread upon the journals of the House, amendment does not exclude the poor. It excludes the nor find their way into the public papers, until an inquiry rich. I feel as much for the poor soldier as he or any had been instituted, and the charges either substantiated other gentleman. The rich do not need my charity. or refuted. Sir, I was unwilling to do any thing, not abI do not deem it necessary to say more at present. The solutely indispensable, to bring the subject to the attengeneral merits of the bill are not open now to discussion. tion of the House, which could operate injuriously toward the promises of the old Congresses, their inability to comply with them; their resort to paper money, and the consequent depreciation. He adverted, in a feeling manner, to the hardships and privations sustained with so much patience by the little army of the revolution; the services and sacrifices of the militia; the destitution and grey hairs of a large portion of the survivors, and the inestimable ed. He inveighed with vehemence against the amendment as degrading and injurious in requiring these venerable old men to disclose their private circumstances, and make oath to beggary; and concluded with an earnest appeal to the members of the House to open their hearts and arms to receive and to cherish their brother soldiers, not as beggars, but as worthy benefactors. Mr. H. EVERETT offered to amend the amendment of Mr. CRAIG, by striking out the greater part of it and inserting, "that so much of the act of 1818 as requires the applicant for a pension to be in indigent circumstances shall be repealed." Mr. HUBBARD stated that he had himself prepared an amendment very similar to that last proposed, to be added as a distinct section to the bill. Mr. POLK, after adverting to the very weighty ques tion involved in the two opposite amendments last proposed, and expressing his wish that some compromise might be effected between the views of gentlemen in favor of an unlimited, and those who advocated a very In restricted bill, moved that the committee now rise. The committee rose; and The House adjourned. FRIDAY, MARCH 30. WISCASSET COLLECTOR. The House resumed this subject as the unfinished busi. ness of yesterday morning. MARCH 30, 1832.] Wiscasset Collector. [H. or R. the collector. It was, however, necessary to state in the derstand, has been adopted in another case, before a resolution that some charges had been made; and I thought committee of the House. Did this, sir, look like an atthe least exceptionable mode of doing it was to refer to tempt to prejudge this case, or to preclude the officer the evidence and the witness upon which it was predicated; accused from an early and a full hearing? And cannot so that wherever it should be known that a charge existed, this mode be adopted as expeditiously, as economically, it should also be known upon whose testimony it was as effectually by the House, as it can by the Secretary? founded. I permitted the resolution to be adopted with- Will it at all impede the business of the House? The hoout remark or explanation on my part, with a view that it norable member from Tennessee [Mr. PoLK] assigned as should not have greater publicity or a wider circulation. a reason why it should be referred to the Secretary of the Sir, I might have made statements relevant to the subject, Treasury, that the charges presented to us rested on the then, and brought on the discussion which has since oc- oath of one witness only. But, sir, is it not as fit that the curred; but, for the reasons already given, I refrained from House should proceed on the testimony of one witness, as doing so. And if I am now under the necessity of pursuing for the Secretary? Does it require more evidence to saa different course, the House will do me the just ce to be- tisfy us, because we are more in number, than will be suflieve that it is not of my seeking--that it is forced upon ficient to satisfy him? Shall he proceed upon slighter me by what has fallen from other gentlemen, and to which grounds than it is proper for us to make the basis of our I have been in no way accessory. Sir, the resolution was action? Sir, I trust not. But how happens it that there adopted; and when the motion, now pending, was submit- is but one witness? And here we shall find a reason ted, I thought it due to myself, to the House, and to all why the investigation should be made by the House, rather concerned, that the reasons should be stated why I had than by the Secretary, and it is because the House has the introduced the subject here. This I did in the fewest pos- power to compel witnesses to appear and testify; the Sesible words. I permitted no harsh expression toward the cretary has not. How happens it that there is but one party accused to escape me. I expressed no opinion or witness before us? Sir, because no one was compelled to belief upon the complaint which was made; and I can come here. If there be others who have knowledge of scarcely be said to have resisted the motion. Since that the charges made against the collector, who are they? time I have had no control over the debate; but it has The other subordinate officers of this collector. The intaken a range so wide, and subjects have been involved in spectors and clerks, who retain their own places by the it of such a character, as to render it necessary for me, tenure of his will; and who, perhaps, are subject to the however unpleasant, again to ask for a few moments the same rule which the complainant alleges was attempted to indulgence of the House. Having stated the manner of be enforced upon him. Do gentlemen expect voluntary tesintroducing the subject here, I shall have occasion to say mony from these sources? Sir, I shall be much surprised something of the propriety of my course when I reach if any other person can be found who has personal knowthat portion of my colleague's remarks, [Mr. JARVIS,] in ledge of the particular facts charged in the affidavit of which he deemed it proper to offer his own example as a McClintock. Would the collector be so incautious as to standard for my guidance. make such an effort in the presence of others? No, sir. Now, sir, let me inquire, what is the subject before the If proved at all, it must be, as I imagine, by the testimony House? Every gentleman who has spoken, has declared of this witness, and the oaths of others who know the that it is one worthy to be inquired into. Even my col-general rule upon which offices are held in that placeleague [Mr. JARVIS] admits that "there is no difference perhaps of the successor of this inspector, who possiof opinion as to the propriety of an investigation." My bly submits to this imposition. Of that, sir, I know worthy friend representing the district where these par-nothing, nor do I know the individual. I only ask, give ties reside, [Mr. KAVANAGH,] admits, if the charges are us the power, which can do no possible injury to the innotrue, that the collector ought to be removed. The gentle-cent, and we shall then be apprised of all the facts which man from Tennessee, [Mr. POLK,] the gentleman from exist; but we shall not until then. I think, therefore, an Georgia, [Mr. FOSTER,] and the gentleman from New inquiry by the House is much more likely to be effectual York, [Mr. BEARDSLEY,] all concur in this opinion. It than if made by the Secretary, and, for any thing I can may, therefore, be taken for granted that the matter is perceive, equally expeditious, equally economical. It has not of light and trivial character, but of grave and serious been said, however, that it is the usual course" to invesimport, and well deserving to be investigated. The only tigate matters of this sort by the order of the department, question is, how and where it shall be done. Gentlemen All agree that the House has the power to pursue this incontend that the Treasury Department is the proper place quiry if it pleases. Doubtless the Secretary can also instifor complaints of this description to be made, and the pro- tute an investigation, to some extent, if he deem it proper. per tribunal to investigate their truth. The reasons have Now, before gentlemen insist that this is "the usual been assigned why an examination by that officer is pre- course," I beg them to point me to one instance where a ferable to one ordered by this House; and they are-that complaint has been made to a department of the Govern it can be done more expeditiously, more economically, ment having jurisdiction of the subject, and that departand more effectually, and, also, that this is the usualment admits the matter to be worthy of investigation, but course. Sir, I do not think that either of these reasons declines to make it, and refers it to another department are well founded. If the Secretary of the Treasury or- having no greater jurisdiction than itself. I know of no ders an inquiry, we are assured that he will appoint some such instance. I hold, therefore, it is not "the usual person in the vicinity of the parties, perhaps the district course" for one branch to shift off the responsibility of attorney, to collect all the evidence, and transmit it to the subjects brought before it upon another. If this comdepartment; and gentlemen ask us whether this mode is plaint had been originally presented to the Treasury Denot preferable to sending the committee to Wiscasset, [partment, doubtless "the usual course" would have been there to make their inquiries, or to bringing persons and for him to investigate it; and as my colleague [Mr. ANDERpapers here, and delaying the business of the House while soN] has alluded to instances where this has formerly been they were under examination. Neither of these was the done, I shall take occasion, before I sit down, to allude course which I had in view; and the committee will bear to some of them more minutely, and to point out how disme out in saying that the course which I suggested was, similar they were to the present. Sir, the subject is now to issue a commission by their own authority, or that of before us; we cannot shut our eyes upon it--it is acknow. the House, to competent persons in Maine, to take all the ledged to be worthy of rigid scrutiny, and it seems to me testimony which could be procured, as well in behalf of that some urgent, powerful, convincing reasons ought to the collector as of the complainant; a course which, I un-be given before we dismiss it from our cognizance. The |