Mr. PATTON said he did not know by what authority it was that the election of Speaker, about to take place, was to be done, as announced by the Clerk, by ballot-necessarily by ballot. If it was competent for Mr. P. to do so, he should move, without desiring any discussion on the question, that the election be made

viva voce.

Mr. MERCER doubted whether that body, unorganized as it was, was competent to act on such a question; and, besides, he humbly conceived that it would be unwise to entertain it, as it would necessarily give rise to a long discussion. He hoped his honorable colleague would not press his motion.

[DEC. 7, 1835.

recollect whether that of Speaker was included or not. For himself, he preferred the mode of voting viva voce upon this question; but he well saw that if the question was then entertained and acted upon, in all human probability, the discussion would be spun out to a late hour of the day, the Clerk of the House presiding, or perhaps spun out for weeks-for all of them knew well that a question of that character could not be decided without long discussion. He hoped, therefore, that the honorable gentleman from Virginia [Mr. PATTON] would withdraw the motion, let the House proceed in its customary mode, and test the principle by proceeding to the choice of clerks viva voce; and Mr. B. would most cheerfully vote that they proceed to the choice of clerks either viva voce or by resolution, and take the question by yeas and nays.

Mr. PATTON said he thought the law ought to be altered; he had no doubt it would be altered; and, believing so, he desired it might be altered at once. He thought that House, if it was competent to elect, was certainly competent to prescribe the mode of election, if they thought proper. For himself, he felt very little concerned how it was to be decided; believing, however, the viva voce mode to be the one in which all elec-by the rules of the constitution. tions in representative popular bodies ought to be made, he must persist in his motion.

Mr. PATTON said he did not feel the embarrassment alluded to, and he must persist in his motion.

The Clerk (Mr. FRANKLIN) read the rule of the last House of Representatives, prescribing the mode to be by ballot.

Mr. WARDWELL. said there was no rule existing that could bind the present House, and the Clerk might as well read out of any other book as that.

Mr. WILLIAMS, of North Carolina, denied that the House was without rules; for they had, and were bound

Mr. PATTON. The rules of the last House of Rep-recollected by all the gentlemen with whom he had the resentatives were not the rules of the present House; in fact, there were no rules in force until rules were adopted by the existing House.

Mr. WILLIAMS, of North Carolina, said they were now about to adopt a very important change in the usages of the House-a usage that had existed, he believed, without interruption, from the organization of the Government to the present time. What reason could have suggested itself to produce this change, he was utterly unable to perceive. It might be for the same reasons they had heard suggested last session; but as this was a new body, assembled for the first time in this city and in this house, he should not advert to them. Wishing it, however, to be known how his own vote would stand on the question, he hoped they would be indulged with the privilege of the yeas and nays; and he would move the question be so taken.

Mr. BEARDSLEY said that body was not the House of Representatives, nor were they at that moment assem bled there as a House. They were nothing more than the elements out of which the House of Representatives was to be composed. Individuals came there, but it was only after taking the oath of office that they became members of that House. It was true, also, that there were no rules to organize that body; for it was as yet an incomplete and imperfect body, unorganized, and without any other rules than custom. Custom alone had sanctioned the practice that the Clerk of the House should, on the first day of the session, at twelve o'clock, call over the names of the members; and custom also had sanctioned the practice of the Clerk calling for the members to vote, and putting the question for Speaker. It was a custom, and nothing more than a custom; and he had no doubt whatever that that body was authorized, under the constitution, to proceed to the choice of a Speaker, either viva voce, by resolution, or by ballot. There was no limitation; and it was left to the discretion of that body, incomplete and imperfect as it was, to take its own course. It would, perhaps, be better to proceed according to the established usage of the House. He said that during the last session a motion was made and debated to pass a similar rule in relation to the election of printer and some other officers-he did not

Mr. WISE would ask by what authority the members of that House had a right at present to vote. Was any man in that assembly qualified? Non constat: at present they were all members there. Were they not to exhibit their qualifications before they undertook to exercise the duties of Representatives in Congress? They might as well else submit the question to the gallery as that body. Mr. VANDERPOEL remarked that it must be well honor to be associated in the last Congress, what course he then took upon this question, whether the officers of this House should be chosen viva voce or by ballot. He had the honor of submitting at that time some reasons in favor of the plan of the gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. PATTON;] and if they were to come to a vote upon the question now before them, he should vote in favor of it; but it was very doubtful to Mr. V. whether it was expedient at this time to agitate the subject. The House was not yet organized; the debate on the same question last session occupied more than a week, and there were many gentlemen who entertained different views, who would claim the right to submit their views before the question was taken. The subject was an important one, coeval with the existence of the Government; and, though he was decidedly in favor of the change, yet he was in favor of having that change deliberately made, and after the organization of the House; and he should therefore be extremely glad if the honorable mover would withdraw his motion. Besides, he did not know what right they had to take the yeas and nays. If the House went into the question then, it seemed to him that they would have to appoint an extra Speaker, or Moderator, to preside; but he hoped they would not be subjected to the necessity of entertaining the question, and he would again most respectfully repeat the request to the gentleman to withdraw his motion.

Mr. EVANS said, both then and hereafter, he should strenuously contend against the change, whenever it was brought forward. He was unwilling to go into the discussion then; and, without any disrespect to the gentleman from Virginia, he moved to lay the motion to proceed to the election of a Speaker, viva voce, on the table.

Mr. PATTON asked for the yeas and nays.

Mr. MERCER had some doubts whether the Clerk could present the question, and whether one fifth had the right to call for the yeas and nays.

Mr. PARKER said it appeared to him the rules were clear; and he would ask by what right it was that the Clerk called that House to order but by the laws previously adopted? By what right did he call them at 12 o'clock? There was no law for 12 o'clock more than

Election of Speaker--Election of Printer.

President's Message--Annual Treasury Report.

DEC. 9, 10, 1835.]

Death of Mr. Smith-Rules and Orders of the House.

Several other communications from the Secretary of the Treasury were laid before the House, and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. WISE moved to reconsider the vote directing the printing of 15,000 copies of the President's message. That, he believed, was the usual number. His object was to increase the quantity.

Mr. HARPER, of Pennsylvania, thought an increased number unnecessary. The message would be published in almost every newspaper in the country.

Mr. WISE remarked that the message was one of unusual interest, and, if the motion to reconsider prevailed, he should move to print 20,000.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. WISE then moved to amend the resolution, by directing that 15,000 copies of the message and documents, and 5,000 copies of the message without the documents, be printed.

Mr. BEARDSLEY accepted the amendment as a modification of his motion.

The resolution, as modified, was then agreed to.

DEATH OF MR. SMITH.

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 9.

After the reading of the journal of yesterday,
On motion of Mr. BRIGGS,
The House adjourned.

The House, in conformity with previous arrangements, then proceeded to the Senate chamber, and joined in the funeral solemnities assigned for this day, in honor of the memory of Senator SMITH.

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 10.

RULES AND ORDERS OF THE HOUSE. The resolution offered by Mr. MANN, of New York, on Monday, for the adoption of the rules and orders of the last House, for the government of the present House, having been taken up for consideration,

Mr. GILLET moved to amend the same by embracing in the list of standing committees, "a Committee on the Militia;" which was agreed to: Yeas 98.

Mr. J. Q. ADAMS offered the following, as an amendment to the rules: that it shall be the duty of the Committee of Ways and Means, within thirty days after the commencement of each session of Congress, to report the general appropriation bill, or give their reasons to the House for failing so to do.

Mr. A. said that the propriety of this rule would strike so forcibly the mind of every one who, like himself, had the honor heretofore of a seat here, that it was not necessary for him to spend much time in supporting it. Its object was to hasten the progress of the annual appropriation bills. No member had been here for any length of time, who was not aware that some measure was necessary to answer this object. Sir, said Mr. A., it has been the practice heretofore to postpone the report to a late day of the session. It had been the practice to introduce into the appropriation bills new

[H. OF R.

objects of legislation, on which account, however, he
did not intend to impute any blame to any person or
committee. In those bills had been introduced expen-
ditures of money, and drafts on the people, which had
been a subject of contention and dissension in the House.
That of itself was an evil of magnitude. Another con-
sequence of it was, that the appropriation bills dragged
their slow length along through half of a year before
they finally passed. He held in his hand proof of this
assertion. At the first session of the last Congress, he
had the honor to offer this rule, which he now again
proposed, and he intended it as the first of a series of
resolutions on the subject. He offered it, he said, on
the 10th of February, and two months elapsed before
When
he could prevail upon the House to consider it.
it was taken up, other business occupied the attention of
the House.

Last session, its consideration was prevented by want
At
of time, and the great pressure of other business.
the first session of the twenty-third Congress, on the
11th of February, the day after he offered his resolution,
an act of appropriation, in part, was passed. It was an
act making appropriations, to the amount of five or six
hundred thousand dollars, for the pay and mileage of
members of this House, of the Clerk and officers of the
House, for the pay and mileage of the Senators, the
contingent expenses of both Houses, &c.
Not a cent
was appropriated for any other service, except that of
members of Congress. On the 27th of June, three
days before the close of the session, the general appro-
priation bill was passed. What, in the mean time,
asked Mr. A., was the condition of the President of the
nation, before other nations of the earth? what was the
condition of the heads of Department, his assistants?
what was the situation of the judges of the land; of the
army and navy; of every officer of every department of
the public service? What, indeed, was the condition of
every individual citizen, whether rich or poor, well-fed
or starving, who had demands on the public? All were
obliged to live on credit, or starve. We were, he
thought, obliged to provide for others as well as for our-
selves. What reason was there for the extraordinary
delay and procrastination in this act. It was because
new clauses were introduced into the bill, occasioning
long debates in the Senate, as well as in the House.
He would now pass to the last session. The general
appropriation bill was then passed with great difficulty.
In consequence of its long procrastination, it became
questionable, in the last hour of the session, whether
we had made any appropriations or not. But he would
say no more on that subject. If the House would adopt
the resolution which he proposed, and which was merely
in the nature of an experiment, to which no one could
have any objection, the bills would be stripped of every
thing but the appropriations; and if any new objects
presented themselves, they would be put in separate
bills, not hazarding what was indispensable and of im-
mediate necessity for compliance with existing laws.

Mr. A. bad, he said, fixed the limit at thirty days; but, for his own part, he saw no reason why the committee could not report within ten days after the commencement of the session. The committee had nothing to do but to examine and see what was authorized by law; and having done that, there was no reason why they could not report within ten days. The bill could be passed in fifteen days afterwards. It would then go to the Senate, and there it would receive the same attention and despatch. In fact, he saw no reason why all the appropriation bills could not be presented to the President before the first day of January. They ought to be passed before the first of the year. The demands then become due, and there was no possible reason or excuse for not then paying off at least one half of the

debts of the Government. Every new-year's day would
thus find the Treasury ready to pay off the demands
upon it.
He would not further trespass upon the time
of the House in pressing this motion.

Mr. CAMBRELENG would like, he said, to hear the amendment read. It having been read,

Mr. C. said he concurred entirely in the views of the gentleman from Massachusetts, as to the evils he complained of; and, probably, they were more manifest last session than at any former period; but Mr. C. dissented entirely to the position taken by the gentleman, that it ever had been, at least in his experience, short as it had been in the Committee of Ways and Means, and long as it had been in the House, that it was justly ascribable to that committee. Mr. C. would appeal to every old member of that House, whether it had not been uniformly the practice for the chairman of that committee to appeal and urge upon the House the necessity of taking up the appropriation bills; and whether the uniform habits of the House had not been to postpone and postpone them again, from day to day, in defiance of all entreaties. If the gentleman wishes to reach the evil he complained of, he should make his appeal to the House. He should prescribe the law by which that House should be bound to take the bills up and proceed with them. The honorable gentleman prescribed duties to the Committee of Ways and Means; but the gentleman must be aware, his knowledge and experience must satisfy him, that every item in the appropriation bills, relating to the army and navy, was a matter of constant communication between the committee and the DepartHow could he expect the committee to adopt a mere estimate, without reason? Every item must undergo full investigation before any one member of the committee would consent to its insertion. A most laborious duty had to be performed before the bill came into the House.

ment.

Mr. C. said he did not rise for the purpose of objecting to the amendment of the gentleman from Massachusetts, because it had a modification that the committee could give their reasons for not having reported the bills, and therefore the proposition was not very operative upon the committee, because, if they were ready to report they would report, and if not, they could obtain further time. Still, Mr. C. would say he thought the time too short. With regard to the measure before the House at the last session, he regretted as much as any gentleman that the Senate were in the habit of putting upon the appropriation bills others that had nothing to do with them. He alluded to the United States Military Academy bill. Was it because the committee had not reported the bill early enough to be acted on? Was it the fault of the gentleman who had charge of the bill that it was not called up? Did not every gentleman, then a member of the House, know that more than a dozen attempts were made to get the bill up, and every attempt failed, till, in the last emergency, the Senate were under the necessity of attaching it to the appropriation bill for the general expenses of the Government? Mr. C. rose not for the purpose, he said, of opposing the principle of the gentleman from Massachusetts, but merely to show that the House itself was the origin of all the evils of which the gentleman complained; but he did not think the proposition one calculated to promote or facilitate business. He knew of no committee last session that did not report in time, except one; and he did not think the gentleman from Massachusetts, having secured, as they did, by their united counsel, a unanimous vote upon the French question, would find fault with the Committee on Foreign Relations in not having been premature. He did not think the fault was with a committee, for every committee would do its duty; and if they did not act, the House had power to compel them.

[DEC. 10, 1835.

Mr. C. concurred with the gentleman in another point, and that was, that it had been the practice of the House, in some cases, to insert provisions of the kind he complained of. He believed, however, the gentleman would do him the justice to say that he (Mr. C.) had uniformly acted with him in opposing such clauses-in other words, new appropriations. He had done it heretofore, and should do it again; and would at all times unite with that gentleman in opposing every thing of the kind, from that or any other committee. Still, the committee was not so much to blame as the House itself; and the House, he was sure, would pardon him, for he spoke of what it was perfectly sensible. There were some gentlemen who had uniformly resisted every thing in an appropriation bill not already authorized by law; and he would again pledge himself to unite with them on all occasions.

Mr. C. concluded by requesting Mr. ADAMS to amend his resolution so as to extend the time to six weeks instead of thirty days.

Mr. VANDERPOEL was, he said, totally opposed to the amendment of the gentleman from Massachusetts, because it involved a principle which he well knew was not intended by the honorable mover-that of discourtesy to the Committee of Ways and Means, whoever they might be. Mr. V. would ask the House whether it was right and courteous to apply the spur exclusively to that committee? And was not the amendment of the gentleman founded upon the apprehension that, peradventure, that committee would not do its duty? Now, in all charity to every committee of that House, he was willing to presume-nay, he was bound to presumethat every committee appointed by the Chair would feel the high responsibilities and obligations imposed upon them, and feel resolved to do their duty, and do it promptly. Why was it necessary to call upon this committee alone? Ah! says the gentleman, we have suffered a great deal of inconvenience heretofore. My answer to that is, said Mr. V., that this committee will profit from the lessons of past experience. If we suffered inconvenience from procrastination last year, and the year before, I have no doubt the Committee of Ways and Means will feel stimulated from that circumstance; and it is surely unnecessary, at this stage, to issue our mandate that they shall report within thirty days. Mr. V. agreed with the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts, that they did suffer some inconvenience last year from procrastination, but he did not attach all the blame to the Committee of Ways and Means. If fault was any where, it was as much in the House, and perhaps more, than in the committee. He well recollected that the chairman of that committee would come in there, day after day, and entreat and implore the House to take up the appropriation bills; and he well recollected, also, that those appeals were made in vain. Mr. V. should vote against the amendment.

Mr. ADAMS had, he said, been very unfortunate in explaining his views, if he had given the gentlemen from New York any reason to suppose that he wished or intended to censure the Committee of Ways and Means, or any member of that committee. Sir, said he, I disclaim any imputation upon that committee. I spoke of evils which existed, evils which were felt and acknowledged, and from which it was my object to obtain a remedy. The gentleman particularly who last spoke seemed to suppose that I intended to cast censure on the Committee of Ways and Means; I meant no sort of censure on that or any other committee of the House. I stated the fact that the general appropriation bill did not pass at the last session until within three hours of the expiration of the Congress. I throw no blame, on this account, on any committee of this House. I from it. But whether that bill had passed was a subject

Far