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[APRIL 2, 3, 1830

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Upon any other, the Government may reel on its feeble that the power of the crown had increased, was increasexistence for a few years, and finally be dissolved by its ing, and ought to be diminished,” applied to this Govern. own weakness. We have heard allusions made, is the meat. This may be true, sir, but there is no evidence of course of this debate, to those persons who desire a great it. To ascertain if there is a probable foundation for the and splendid Government. If by a splendid Government remark, let us look at the occurrences of the last few gentlemen mean a Government wbich carries its blessings years. We have seen an administration hurled from its into the remotest corners of its dominions, which peoples seat by a spontaneous burst of the popular voice; not be its forests with a living and industrious multitude, which cause the constitution had been violated, not because the is hailed with gratitude and joy in the remotest log house liberty of any one had been assailed, but from a bare Busbeyond the mountains, I am, sir, for a splendid Govern picion that unfairness had been used in preventing the ment. I would rejoice to see the day when the name of will of the majority. And alihough, now, no hoporable an American citizen, like that of the ancient Roman, would man believes there was any corruption in the choice, though be a protection on every sea, and a terror to tyrants on the charge bas been consigned to the “ kennel of forgotevery land. But if nothing more is meant than a continual | ten calumnies,” the bare existence of this eircumstance is playing with the passions and prejudices of the people, for proof of the uncontrolled and uncontrollable power of the the offices of the Government, the less we have of such people in the administration of this Government. Does splendor the better. To be happy and free, we must be not this House daily exhibit that they are tremblingly alive great. By greatness I do not mean the voluptuous splen- to the opinion of their constituents! Tbat the slightest dor of an eastern monarch, a mere sensual enjoyment, the murmur of disapprobation at home sounds like thunder in indolence of one, maintained by the sacrifice of millions; their ears? How, then, can we imagine the power of the I mean that greatness which demands and obtains the re-Government is increasing? Are we prepared to adopt the spect of the world; which insures to the poorest citizen pullifying notions that seem to have struck so forciof the community personal security, the means of obtain- bly the imaginations of some of our politicians? I hope ing plenty, and a fair field for the exercise of all the eper- not; I do not despair of the republic, but have great congies of his nature. The most melancholy forebodings bave fidence in the permanence of our institutions. And, albeen indulged in, should we coptioue to progress with this though I differ widely with many of the opponents of this system of opening roads, making canals

, and deepening bill, I cannot vote for it. I do not think the expediency or barbors. The fate of Rome has been brought before us necessity of a road from Buffalo to New Orleaus has been and painted in vivid colors; her passion for splendor has shown to the House. I bave no doubt that the General been assigned as the legitimate cause of her degradation Government has the power to execute the work; but I capand misery. Rome was a nation of warriors; her splendid not consent to expend so large a sum of money as this road ways were constructed to transport her conquering legions will require, for an object the utilty of which is so doubtto enslave nations ; she lived by the plunder of the world; ful. I will not repeat the arguments which have just fallen despising commerce and the pursuits of civil life, she bad from the honorable gentleman from New York; to my no occupation but that of war. The comparison, therefore mind they are perfectly satisfactory of the inexpedieney is not sustained ; our roads are intended to draw closer of this measure. the bond of union ; to drive, by a nearer and more fami Mr. RAMSEY, of Pennsylvania, spoke in explanation liar intercourse, barbarism and bostile feelings from among of his former remarks, referred to by some gentlemen. us; to unite us, by the closest of all ties, the tie of inter Mr. CARSON replied to some of the remarks of his colest. But, sir, should this devout end not be obtained, league, Mr. SHEPARD. should the sun of our horizon run his ecliptic course Mr.WICKLIFFE moved that the committee rise, and through as brilliant a galaxy as that of ancient Rome, report the bill, with the view of refusing leave to sit again, and finally set in as mild a splendor as that of modern and discussing the amendment in the House; but, Italy, the land of science and of glory, this would be bet The CHAIR pronounced the motiou out of order. ter, far better, than twenty-four petty, jarring, independent Mr. STORRS replied to some remarks of Mr. RAMtribes, the natural and inevitable result of the opposite SEY, iu reference to his course on this bill; and, doetrine. In the one case, we may leave something for After some further explanation between Mr. SHEthe study and admiration of mankind; in the other, a PARD and Mr. CARSON, great deal for their scorn and contempt. Equally unfor The committee rose, on motion of Mr. ARCHER. tunate, in my estimation, was the allusion made to the present condition of England. Her immense debt, which

FRIDAY, APRIL 2, 1830. weighs so heavily upon the industry of her people, was not incurred by making roads or cutting canals, but in un

The House resumed the consideration of the resolution, necessary wars; so far from it, that the very existence of proposing to set apart every other Thursday for such lethat country is now to be attributed to its high state of gislation as may be necessary for the District of Columbia. improvement, to the facility of intercourse through every

After a good deal of debate, on the part of Messrs. section, by means of whick the industry of every part of SPEIGHT and P. P. BARBOUR, against the resolution, the population is wafted to every quarter of the world. and Messrs. MALLARY, DAVIS, and INGERSOLL, in By means of the twenty-five or thirty canals uniting the its favor, and an ineffectual attempt of Mr. BARBOUR eastern with the western section of England, the spirit and to lay it on the table, the resolution was adopted-yeas, intelligence of the capital is conveyed in a fruitful etream 86, pays, 75-80 modified as to commence next Thursday throughout the kingdom. We have seen England, with a population of ten or fifteen millions, maintaining a firm

SATURDAY, APRIL 3, 1830. and invincible front against hostile Europe. We have seen

PENSIONS. her warring in every hemisphere, the last refuge and only The House took up the following resolution, reported hope of free principles in the old world!

by Mr. BATES, from the Committee on Military Pensions. To what are we to attribute this indomitable spirit? And " Resolved, That the Committee on Military Pensions be 4 whence did she draw the treasure to sustain this protract- instructed, agreeably to the President's recommendation ed struggle? Her people, on bebolding the land of their in his message of sixth of December last, to revise the birth rendered a garden, and endeared by their industry, pension law, for the purpose of extending its benefits to would have died sooner than have permitted the spoiler to every soldier who aided in establishing our liberties, and have entered their territory. In the course of this debate, who is upable to maintain himself in comfort, and to report we bave beard the remark of a celebrated British orator, to the House a bill for that purpose. And, also, that said

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APRIL 3, 1830.]


[H. of R.

committee be further instructed, agreeably to said recom-selves by manual labor ?" Those who were disabled by mendation, to report a bill for the relief of all those who knowo wounds are now provided for, leaving only those were, during the last war, disabled from supporting them for the resolution to act upon who were disabled by other selves by manual labor.”

means, such as bardships, exposures, &c. &c. Mr. BATES said, the applications for pensions are nu Thus far for the import of the resolution. As to its merous, which do not come within the range of the provi. bearing upon the treasury, if it should be consummated sions of the pension laws, and for which provision ought into a law, the committee, aware that they would be called to be made, if made at all, by a general law, and not by upon to state the number of soldiers it would embrace, adspecial acts. In order to take the judgment of the House dressed through the House a resolution to the head of the upon the propriety of passing such general law, the com- department who bas the administration of this subject, mittee thought it best to present the question in the form of and all the means of information in relation to it, accessible a resolution, that it might be stript of the embarrassments or known to the committee, which he asked the Clerk to and refuges which the details of a bill create ; and be sup- read, with the Secretary's answer to it. posed it would be expected of him in a few words to call “ Mr. BATEs, from the Committee on Military Pensions, the attention of the House to its import and general bearing reported the following resolution, which was adopted :

The resolution (he said] embodies precisely the recom Resolved, That the Secretary of War be directed to mendation of the President in bis message at the opening report to this House the probable number of surviving reof the present session of Congress, no more, no le:B. lt volutionary officers and soldiers (not provided for by the involves two propositions, the one relating to the soldiers existing pension law) who aided in establishing the liberof the revolution, the other to the invalids of the last wår. ties of the United States, and who are unable to maintain The first proposition is to extend the benefits of the exist- themselves in comfort; designating, as vearly as may be, ing law to "every soldier of the revolution who aided in such as belonged to the continental establisbment, and such achieving our liberties, and who is unable to maintain bim- as were regular troops of the line of the arroy, but not of self in comfort." To extend the existing pension law the continental establishment, and known as state troops ; the act of 1828, so far as it relates to the officers, was found as, also, such as belonged to the militia of the States, seed on compact; and, so far as respects the soldiers, it gives verally, whether as volunteers or otherwise, and what adpensions only to those who served to the close of the war, ditional appropriations will be necessary to meet the views &c., without any reference to their ability or inability to of the President in this respect, as disclosed in bis message support themselves ; and has, therefore, no application to at the opening of the present session of Congress ; and, the subject in hand. The law of 1818 gives a pension to further, to report the probable number of those who were, those of the continental establishment, who, at one period during the late war, disabled from supporting themselves of the war, or, in the langunge of the act, " at any period by manual labor, and who are not provided for by existing of the war, served for the term of nine months or longer," law. and who were in such circunstances as to peed, &c. Up

War DEPARTMEMT, 19th January, 1830. der the constructiou which has been given to this act, those The resolution of the House of Representatives, of the whose enlistment was for a shorter terın tban nine months, 14th January iustant, relative to the number of surviving whatever might bave been their term of service, are ex- revolutionary officers, &c. cannot be fully and satisfactoricluded, and those, also, who enlisted for nine months, ly answered by any information on file in this department. and by captivity were prevented from serving in the army: The enclosed communication from the principal clerk of For these two classes provision has been made by the bill the Pension Bureau, is a reply, to the extent that the that has gone to the Senate; and which, by great grace and records of the War Department will permit. favor, has reached the bonor of a second reading, upon a

Very respectfully, call of yeas and ways, by a vote of pineteen to seventeen.

J. H. EATON. Mr. B. said be congratulated the House upon this occasion. ANDREW STEVENSON, Esq. It might grow to be of some importance in this Goveri

Speaker of the House of Representatives. ment, for the bill of the last Congress did not arrive even to that honor. Do what you will to these old soldiers, but

WAR DEPARTMENT, hear them. And if they are not to be heard, let this House

Pension Office, January 15, 1830. be beard in their behalf, at least with the usual forms of Sir: In relation to the resolution of the House of Rerespect and attention. The resolution, therefore, only presentatives. of the 14th instant, respecting the surviving covers, beyond the cases of those who, under different en- officers and soldiers of the revolutionary war, I bave to inlistments, served nine months, or, under one or more en form you that the archives of this department furnish no listments, a shorter term than nine months.

data upon which an estimate could be made, as to the proThere was another class of troops, now known as State bable number of those who belonged to the State regitroops, eleven regiments, or rather battalions, for they ments, volunteers, and militia, during the revolutionary consisted of but five hundred men each, who are also pro- war. Of such troops we have no rolls, except the three vided for by the bill now in the Senate, leaving those only State regiments of Virginia. Of the number of Virginia to be embraced by the resolution, who served for a shorter State troops, now living, I can form nothing like an accutime than nine months, or nine months at different times. rate calculation : possibly a bundred may still survive, and

The third class consists of the militia and volunteers, perbaps three-fourths of them might ask for assistavce, if who, at all times, were useful, and, on many occasions, saw à law should pass embracing their cases. If all who served very hard service.

on the continental establishment are comprehended in the The proposition, then, is to give relief to all the soldiers resolution, it would embrace men who served for six and of the revolution, whether continental, State, militia, or eight months. What portion of these are now alive, and volunteer, who are unable to maintain themselves in com- in needy circumstances, I am unable to determine, but four fort, as a national memorial, and testimonial of our grati- hundred would, I think, be a large estimate. tude and justice, of their merit and worth, and of the glori I have no means of ascertaining what number of persons ous results of their services—a full pension to those who were disabled during the last war, who are incapable of served nine months, and a pro rata pension to those who maintaining themselves by manual labor, and who are not served less. This, however, to be fixed in the details of provided for by law. the bill as may be thought proper.

I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient The second proposition is to give a pension to those“ who servant,

J. L. EDWARDS, were during the last var disabled from supporting them Hon. John H. EATON, Secretary of War."

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Mr. B. said he called for the reading of these papers at least the quiet of despair. I say again, that I congrarather for the purpose of showing what is not attainable tulate them that the President has interposed in their bethan what is obtained. In as much as this measure .was half. It is proof that he knows what is due to them, recommended by the President the committee thought it and what is due to ourselves, to our own character and due to him to call upon the appropriate department of his honor; and I call upon the House to sanction the measure cabinet for such facts and information as might be useful he has recommended. in justifying and sustaining it. But, from the condition of [Here the hour elapsed for the consideration of résolothe records of the army, and the nature of the case, it is tions.] impossible to form a satisfactory opinion upon the subject. He would not, therefore, venture to give one. The fact can only be ascertained now, as it was in 1818 and 1828,

MONDAY, APRIL 5, 1830. by experiment Of one fact, however, and the only one The SPEAKER presented a memorial of James H. material, we are assured, and that is the ability of the trea. Peck, Judge of the United States' district court for the sury to meet the demand which the resolution may create district of Missouri, in relation to the report of the Comupon it. The House 'ought not to forget that time has mittee on the Judiciary, made to the House on the 23d thinned the ranks of these men, and abridged the life of ultimo, on the memorial of Luke E. Lawless, in which all of them by twelve years since the act of 1818. The report it is proposed that he (the said judge) be impeachamount of the immediate demand will be much less than ed for high misdemeanors in office, praying the House to is expected, he thought, and it will be a gradually and ra. receive from him a written exposition of the whole case, pidly decreasing demand. These men will soon cease to embracing both the facts and the law, and that he may trouble you. The last of them will soon be gone. The bave process to call his witnesses from the State of Mismeasure must, therefore, rest, for its basis, upon the re souri

, in support of his statement, before any discussion commendation of the President, who doubtless considered or vote be taken on the evidence as it is now presented it well before he recommended it to Congress, and upon with the report of the committee-or, if that cannot be the great and obvious and universally admitted justice and granted, he prays the House “ to vote the impeachment at propriety of the measure.

once, without any discussion on that partial evidence wbich He congratulated the soldiers of the revolution that the presents a garbled view of the subject

, greatly to the prePresident bad pledged the authority of his name, and judice of the memorialist, and that he may have as speedy staked to the nation his influence with Congress in their an opportunity as the nature of the case will allow, to bebalf. It was an act worthy of a President of the United exhibit before the tribunal of the Senate, and before his States. It ought never to be heard in a country like ours, country, the entire transaction in all its parts

, as it really that these men are left to suffer from want, or even to feel occurred." that they have been rigorously and harshly dealt by, and The report having been read by the Clerk, he hoped to hear no more of paying the national debt un Mr. STORRS, of New York, moved to commit it to the til this, the most ancient, just, and sacred, is first met Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, and cancelled. Sir, [said he] there never was a race of to which is committed the report of the Judiciary Commen so trifled with as these men have been, whose feelings mittee relative to Judge Peck. and bonor were held in such cheap account. In 1818, On this motion a debate ensued, which continued till you gave them a pension. In 1820, as soon as they ad- between two and three o'clock, embracing in its range justed themselves to their new condition of comfort, you the propriety of granting the prayer of the petitioner, the took it away. By the same act, and that of 1823, you re- propriety of the course pursued by the committee in their admitted a portion of them to the pension roll, but upon investigation of the subject, the history of other cases of this condition--a sworn confession of absolute pauperism, impeachment in our country and in Great Britain, and, day, you required proof of it upon iuspection and valua- somewhat, the merits of the present case. Messrs. tion. You searched their tents as if they had been felons, STORRS, of New York, CLAY, BUCHANAN, INGERnot to ascertain where they get their plunder, but what SOLL, SUTHERLAND, WICKLIFFE, PETTIS, BELL, they had, and what they had done with what they had SPENCER, of New York, EVERETT, STRONG,

You made him account for the twin lambs he had! COULTER, and CRAIG, of Virginia, took part in the given his children for the rearing, and for the cradle his debate, which was at length terminated, by a successful wife had given to his daughter upon her marriage. You motion of Mr. DAVIS, of South Carolina, to lay the mecharged him with the money he had paid for services filial morial on the table, and print it. piety had rendered, unless he could show an antecedent [The following are the only speeches the publishers contract which no parent ordinarily would have thought of have been able to obtain:] proposing, and no son, unless a bastard or ac outcast, of Mr. CLAY said, that when he withdrew his motion to making. In 1828–29, no sooner had a new rule been lay this memorial on the table, and, print it, he bad bad do adopted more just, more liberal, and iu my view more idea that such a discussion would have taken place as bad conformable to the act of 1818 than the old one was, and since arisen. Nor could he perceive the propriety of the the hopes of these men, which had become dead, been re- debate under such a motion as had been made by the vived, and their crutches put in motion--for they had no gentleman from New York (Mr. STORES] to refer it to the time to lose~no sooner had they set out upon their pil. Committee of the Whole on the State of the Union. Hegrimage to the court-houses, to get their papers, than the liad greatly misunderstood the memorial of Judge Peck, rule was reversed—the Government had changed its mind if it reflected in the slightest degree on the Judiciary —“as you were," was the order from the War Depart-Committee; and he was persuaded that those gentlemen ment. Of course, all their expense and trouble were in who had represented that paper as so doing, had entirely curred for nothing. I repeat, sir, there never were med misunderstood its tenor and purpose. All that the Judge BO trifled with. Age, infirmity, poverty, and suffering bad done in his petition was, to present a simple statement have been sported with, not by the boys of Bethel, but of facts, and to ask that he might be heard before he was by Congress. Here, sir-less here than elsewhere. Fair impeached. He had uttered to reflection whatever, either speeches will answer no longer. They have answered on the Judiciary Committee or its chairman; and why it long enough. Let the question be settled, once and for- had roused so much feeling in the House, he was utterly at

Let the claims of these men be admitted and satis a loss to understand. He might be mistaken, but to him it fied, or rejected; for, in reference to this subject, hope seemed that the whole discussion was out of order. The given up is preferable to hope deferred. Let them bave question at this time was not whether the Judge should be

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APRIL 5, 1830.)
Judge Peck.

[H. OF R. heard at the bar of the House, or whether additional testi- | Judge Peck, in that memorial, suggests that the Commony should be received. Neither of these questions was at mittee on the Judiciary sent for such witnesses only as all involved in a motion to refer the memorial to the Commit- had been selected by Mr. Lawless. That is far from being tee of the Whole on the state of the Union; yet the whole the fact. The committee acted upon higher principles. discussion seemed to bave gone on the supposition that such They were sensible of the high responsibility which they was the question, and gentlemen bad argued it on the ground owed, both to this House and to the country, for the corof precedent. As to precedents, there was no uniformity rectness of their proceedings; and had, therefore, inquired in them on this subject. One high case had been referred and ascertained, from the best sources in their power, the to, that of Warren Hastings, and also that of Judge Chase. wames of such witnesses as would be most likely to give But the practice in the several States differed from tbat an impartial and intelligent statement of the transaction.. which had been pursued by the General Government. In They had sent for and examined seven witnesses ;'and he bis own State, (and he hoped he should not be considered owed it to them to say, that, although he had long been 23 presumptuous in referring to the practice of a State in the habit of examining witnesses in courts of justice, which had so recently been admitted to the Union,) the he had never observed, on any occasion, more candor or course pursued in cases of impeachment was different : more impartiality than these seven gentlemen had exhibitand he thought there were many inducements for the ed upon their examination before the committee. House to pursue the practice there adopted. He could It is true, as the memorial suggests, that, in the case of not unite in the opinion that the House should proceed Warren Hastings, the House of Commons did hear the precisely as did a grand jury in ordinary cases of indict. accused, and did permit him to produce testimony, before ment. The present case was totally different. A great they voted an impeachment against him. But this was officer had been accused of a great offence. Did geo- only a single instance. That course might have been adtlenien suppose, could they think, that, when a high offi- opted, because Mr. Burke, merely as an individual memcer of the government was accused by a private individual, ber of the House, bad risen in bis place, and moved the he must, on the mere ex parte testimony of that accuser

, impeachment. Whether he was correct in this conjecture be at once impeached ? Mr. O. said he should besitate or not, it was certain there had been no case of an impeachmuch, before he could subscribe to such an opinion. He ment by this House, in which so much indulgence was grantthought the House ought to proceed with very great cau- ed, as had been allowed to the accused upon the present tion. Merely to accuse, was not all that was necessary occasion. He was permitted to furnish the committee with in order to have a judge impeached. Some gentlemen a written explanation of his conduct, and his request that seemed to conceive that the memorial of this petitioner he might cross-examine the witnesses was promptly grantasked that witnesses might be examined at the bar of that ed. The House will decide, when they come to review House ; but it made no such request directly. It only the testimony, whether he was improperly restricted in asked this as one alternative-that his witnesses might be this cross-examination, or whether it has not been full and heard here, if not elsewhere. Mr. C. inquired why it ample. He would say, that, in his opinion, this crosswould not be proper to appoint commissioners to take examination had rather injured than benefited the Judge. testimony in Missouri or elsewhere. Where would be the Mr. B. said, that, for his own part, he had never coninconvenience of such a course! Where would be the im-sidered the parol testimony in this case of much importpropriety of issuing commissions to individuals of respect- ance. The opinion of the court, the commentary of' Mr. ability, to take testimony on the spot where the offence Lawless upon it, which was the alleged contempt, and had occurred! This could be done, although that House the record of the court imprisoning and suspending bim was not the tribunal before which the accused was to be from practice, were all in writing, and were the facts tried. It had very truly been stated, that the ground of on which the committee mainly relied in forming their this impeachment had occurred some four or five years opinion. In that opinion they were unanimous. They before. The case had at that time been referred to the felt deep regret, when they found themselves obliged to Judiciary Committee of the House, who, after looking at come to the conclusion which they had done ; and it was it, requested to be discharged from its further considera with great reluctance they had recommended an impeachtion. The same extraordinary prosecution had been at- ment to the House. In making their report, they had tempted the second time, but with no better success. And purposely expressed a mere naked opinion only, unaccomwas it not natural for the accused, when a grand jury bad panied by any argument in its support. They did not wish tbus twice made a return of ignoramus, to suppose that he to bias the decision of the House by any commentary of was exempt from any further molestation on the same theirs upon the testimony. All they desired was, that each ground ? Surely it was; and Judge Peck bad concluded, member should read the testimony for himself, and draw when, io a second instance, a competent committee of his own conclusions from it. tbat House had had his case before them, and made no Mr. INGERSOLL said, there might perhaps be some report upon it, that he was exempt from further trouble. difficulty in arriving at the correct practice to be pursued Wbile these facts were not denied, and gentlemen looked in this case; and as possibly the practice hitherto had pot at the length of time which had since elapsed, they must beeu uniform, it was the more important that the House allow that it behoved tbem, as candid and honorable mep, should start right. He confessed that this was, in a great to act in the case with caution and deliberation. Were measure, a new case to him. The only one that he had gentlemen prepared to decide on the proposition of the ever before witnessed was that in which charges, through Judge, without fully consulting the precedents. It had a newspaper of this district, had been brought against the been to allow time for such an examination, that he had Vice President about three years ago. That officer had made the motion to lay the memorial on the table, and presented these charges to the House, as the grand inquest print it; and he must be permitted to say, that a discussion of the natiou, and requested an inquiry. A committee like the present would, in bis judgment, have been more bad been appointed to investigate them; and, before that proper after such a delay, than it was at present. committee, a friend of the Vice President bad been per

He now renewed the motion, but once more withdrew mitted to appear, and represent him throughout the whole it at the request of Mr. STORRS.

investigation. Witnesses, also, bad been examined on the Mr. BUCHANAN said, that, whilst he was influenced part of the accused, How it had been in the case of by oo personal feeling in this case, he thought it was his Judge Chase, or of Judge Pickering, from New Hampduty to make one or two explanations in relation to some shire, he did not recollect; but he well recollected that matters contained in the memorial which had just been witnesses, in favor of the Vice President, had been exaread.

mined, as well as against him, and that his representative bad VOL. VI.-98.

H. OF R.)

Judge Peck.

[APRIL 6, 1830.

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been allowed to be present before the committee through prepared to act in the case until these principles were exevery stage of that examination. The committee at that amined and known. Were there any gentlemen present time took some pains to ascertain what was the proper who had fully examined the law bearing on this case ! He mode of proceeding, and they became satisfied that the presumed not. We were then called upon to act in the party accused had, in these preliminary proceedings, a dark, upon faith. He had not bimself bad time to examine right to be thus heard. The constitution providing for the principles involved, nor bad he made up any definitive the impeachment of all civil officers, makes no difference judgment on the case. He thought the Judge ought to be between judicial and other officers. Nor can it make any permitted to show whatever bore on bis side of the ques. difference whether the matter is brought before us by the tion, and the committee should then exhibit whatever bad individual who feels himself injured by an unjust charge, an opposite bearing. This might be done should the House or whether it comes on the petition of a citizen, or by the refuse to hear his witnesses. He was of the opinion that message of the Executive, or by a meinber rising in his bis witnesses should be examined by the committee. seat, as was done in the case of Warren Hastings. The Mr. P. said, this was not the ordinary trial of a criminal rules which must govern the inquiry must be uniform, be before a court of law, but was a proceeding of a much the officer who he may, and no matter in what form the higher character. Why is it that a defendant's witnesses subject is first brought to our notice. Mr. I. said, he would are not permitted to be examined before a grand jury! It not, in this early stage of the business, commit himself to is because criminals shall not know what is doing against any course, till he could look further into parliamentary them, and then make their escape. But even in criminal proceedings in similar cases; be rose principally to correct cases counter, testimony is frequently allowed. what had been said by the gentleman from New York, If the House should bear what the Judge had to exhibit wbo, he thought, went too far in saying that there bad in bis defence, we should be prepared to act intelligibly; been no instance in which the party accused was permit- The gentleman from New York (Mr. STORKS] bad opposed ted to examine bis witnesses in the preliminary proceed this, on the ground that it would be worse for the Judge; ings in this House.

that if this examination was bad, and an impeachment pre Mr. PETTIS said: Standing indifferently, as he pro- ferred, the Senate would be bound, by the force of public tested he did, between the accuser and the accused in this opinion, to convict. That gentleman would surely let the case, he hoped be might be permitted to make some re- party judge for himself. If he judged wrong, he must abide marks on this subject.

the consequences. It appeared to him a very strange docThe House of Representatives bad now to perform a very tripe, tbat, after a full examination here, and an impeachimportant duty-important, as had been observed, not ment found, the Senate would be bound to convict. In only to the judge who had been accused, but to the coup- the case of the Vice President, and in the case of Mr. try. The practice in cases of impeachments, so far as Crawford, witnesses were examined on both sides. Both regards the proceedings in this House, was now to be set- these gentlemen were charged with high misdemeanors, and tled; for it was obvious that it had not yet been settled by the charges had been preferred in times of great politiprecedent Gentlemen had, indeed, spokeu of the case of cal excitement. The request of the Judge is supported Judge Chase ; but that case had po application to the pre- by the whole train of English decisions in cases of a like sent ope as it now stands. Judge Chase did not ask to kind; and he hoped that the indulgence would be granted make his defeoce before this House, nor did he ask either him. to cross-examine witnesses on the part of the Government, Mr. STRONG said, that from the little examination he or to have an examination of his own witnesses. As the bad been able to give to this subject, he had come to the present question was not then raised, that case can form conclusion that the present proceedings should be strictly no precedent to govern ir this instance.

ex parte, rigidly so. had been said by the gentleman Mr. P. regretted the course pursued by the gentlemen from Massachusetts, [Mr. Everett] that the committee of the Judiciary Committee, especially that of its honor: bad departed somewbat from this líde. It was true that able chairman, [Mr. BUCHANAN.), That gentleman had they bad deviated from it in a slight degree, but the derepeatedly told the House that he had no feeling towards parture was not such as to warrant the House in taking the the accused. Mr. P. said he hoped his remarks would not other step which was now requested. There was a very show a freedom from feeling in the way that those of that material difference between bearing the party accused and gentleman had done. The honorable chairman bad, in a hearing his witnesses. The members of the House were very uppecessary, and he would say, improper manner, not judges to try or to condemn the accused, It was true entered into the merits of the case. He had told the House that the matters in this testimony might not be such as that in order to save the Judge, bis request should be to mix themselves up with party politics; but suppose refused him; and he had said that the Judge bad made his that it were proposed to impeach a political man of high case worse instead of better by bis cross-examination of stauding, and that the witnesses were brought to the bar of the witnesses. The gentleman from New York (Mr. the House, be put it to every man to say whether the safeSTOBRS) had taken the same view; both intimating that ty of the country did not require that, in such cases, politics they were desirous to save the Judge from himself. What should be thoroughly excluded from that tribunal. And was it the Judge asked in his memorial! First, that he how could this be done, but by keeping the proceedings might be permitted to defend himself before this House, strictly ex parte ? Complaints had been made that the and then that his witnesses might be examined at our bar; committee bad not reported articles of impeachment; the but, if this be pot granted, that his case might be sent back to case had been referred to them for no such purpose; their the committee, avd that there be might present his defence, duty had been simply to ascertain facts. The House did and there have his witnesses examined. Mr. P. said he not want even their opinions; it wanted the facts only, considered the request of the memorial perfectly fair avd and on one side. What the House bad to decide, was proper; and if the motion to lay it on the table and print whether the testimony did, or did not contain matter to it should prevail, he should then move a series of resolu. warrant an impeachment. If it did, then the House tions, presenting in a distinct manner the several requests would say the party should be impeached, and the next of the memorialists that the House might act expressly step would be to appoint a committee to frame the articles. upon them. As to the first, it was certainly important that These would be reported to the House, and, if they were the House should know the principles on which the case agreed upon, then managers would be appointed to conrested. The Judiciary Committee bad, it was true, made duct the trial before the Senate. It struck him that the a report; but they had not laid down one of those princi- safest course would be to keep the proceedings as near er ples in it Now, be put it to gentlemen, whether they were parte as possible. Let the report and the memorial go to

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