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JAN. 27, 1837.]
REDUCTION OF THE REVENUE.
Mr. WRIGHT said the Committee on Finance, to which had been referred, by a resolution of the Senate of the 19th day of December last, so much of the annual message of the President as relates to the reduction of the revenue to the wants of the Government, had directed him to report a bill; and, as the bill was not accompanied by any written report, he hoped he should be indulged by the Senate in a very concise statement of some of the principles and views which had governed the action of the committee. It was not his purpose to debate the bill at this period, but merely to state its contents, and the foundations upon which it rested.
Mr. W. said it was his duty here to say that, in consequence partly of ill health, and partly of other and paramount engagements, the committee had been deprived, during all its deliberations upon this bill, of the valuable advice and aid of one of its members; and that, therefore, nothing contained in the bill, and nothing which he should say, was to be considered as commit. ting that member of the committee, or as expressing his views upon the important and interesting questions involved. The very late arrival in the city of another member of the committee had prevented him from par. taking fully in their deliberations. The bill, therefore, is to be received rather as the conclusions and recommendations of a bare majority of the committee, than of the whole committee; and it was his duty further to add, that what he should now say would be more the expression of his private views, and the motives and opinions which had governed his action, than any thing he had been either authorized or directed by the committee to say.
The reference was general, and applied to the whole revenue of the country. This revenue, or, more properly speaking, the receipts into the Treasury, consists of two parts: the money derived from the duties imposed upon importations, which is revenue proper, and the receipts from the sales of the public lands, which is, in fact capital, and not revenue. The committee, upon their first view of the reference, considered this last branch of the subject, the receipts from lands, more properly to belong to another standing committee of the Senate— the Committee on Public i.ands. Indeed, at the very time of the reference, they knew that the subject of the reduction of the amount of money flowing into the public Treasury from the sales of the public lands was under consideration before that committee; and very soon after this reference to the Committee on Finance, and before that committee had made it a subject of deliberation, the Committee on Public Lands reported to the Senate a bill, having for its object the reduction of this branch of the receipts into the public Treasury. That bill was, long since, taken up for action in the Senate; and has, for many days now inst past, occupied the prin. cipal time and attention of the body.
The Committee on Finance, therefore, have not, at any time, considered that branch of the reference be. fore them for their action, or that they have been, at any period since the reference, at liberty to consider
and act upon it.
Mr. W. said, another conclusion of his own mind, and one he believed existing also in the minds of his col. leagues upon the committee who were present and acting, was, that if Congress, by any legislative action, at its present session, could reduce the receipts into the Treas. *y to the wants of the Government, the most impor. tant measures to reach that object must relate to the lands, and go to reduce the receipts from that source. This conclusion was founded upon the amount of receipts from that source for the last two years. T. receipts for the years 1835 and 1836, counted together, had
amounted to between thirty-eight and thirty-nine millions of dollars, he did not know but full thirty-nine millions; a sum which exceeded the usual estimate of the wants of the Treasury for the two years mentioned. If, then, every dollar of the revenue from customs were instantly repealed, and the receipts from the lands were to continue at the rates of the last year, there would still be a surplus in the Treasury, or the expenses of the Government must be swellen beyond the amount which is considered economical and desirable. It was, therefore, impossible to apply an efficient and adequate remedy for the existing evil of a redundant revenue by any reduction of the revenue from customs. The receipts from the lands was the seat of the evil, and to that quarter the great and commanding remedies must be directed. The committee hoped and believed, during the whole of their deliberations, that Congress would pass the necessary laws, during its present session, to loop this branch of our public receipts, and to relieve the national Treas. ury from the dangerous plethora now weighing upon it from that source. Mr. W. said he yet entertained that hope, and his action upon the interesting and important
subject of a reduction of our revenue from the customs
had been influenced by that hope and helief. Thus confined, as the committee believed they were, to a consideration of the reduction of the duties upon customs, another principle which actuated himself, and which he believed actuated every member of the committee who participated in their deliberations, was to move cautiously and safely; not to shock the public sense by any hasty and rash movement; not, if that could possi
bly be prevented, to disturb any permanent and impor.
tant domestic interest of the country, which had grown up, or was now growing up, under the protection of our revenue laws; but to go as far as the existing laws would permit, to reduce this branch of the revenue without incurring any of these evils. Acting upon this principle, the committee had, in the bill which he was directed to report, and which he was about to send to the Secretary's table, added to the list of free articles every thing which had appeared to them to admit of being made sree, without injury to the interests to which he had re. ferred. Every article proposed to be made free was distinctly named in the bill, and the committee had caused a statement to be prepared, from the tables of commerce and navigation for the year ending on the 30th of September, 1835, (the last table of that descrip. tion which is yet completed,) showing the name or designation of the article, the present rate of duty, the amount of importations for the year 1835, the amount of duty paid upon the article as calculated upon those importations, and the amount of duty proposed to be reduced, as estimated upon the importations of that year, Many of the articles named in the bill are not enumerated separately in the tables of commerce and navigation, but are given as non-enumerated articles, and so group. ed as not to show, with precision, the importance of each; but the committee believe that the statement will present, with satisfactory clearness, to the mind of every Senator, the effect of the action they recommend by this part of their bill. This statement it was the intention of the committee to ask the Senate to order to be print. ed, to accompany the bill; and they felt confident it would afford greater aid to the action of the budy upon the bill than any other form of written report they could have presented. Among the articles proposed to be made free would be foundi “ common salt;” and Mr. W. said, while it was not his object, at this time, to discuss any of the merits or provisions of the biil, he hoped he should be pardoned for the remark, that he knew this was, by far, the most important article inserted in the free list, and an article much more likely than any other to excite a
deep feeling in the country, and to meet with firm and spirited opposition. He also knew that this was, in certain portions of the Union, a protected article, and would, in that sense, be considered as inserted in violation of the general principle by which the committee had proposed to govern their action. Under these convictions, he was consoled by the reflection that no State in the Union held so deep a stake in this article, as a domestic article, and one of domestic manufacture, as the State he had the honor in part to represent here. It was an important article to a large and most respectable class of the citizens of his State, as one of production and manufacture; and it was important to the State itself, as a source of revenue to the State treasury. In these aspects, he was fully aware of the delicacy of his position in having consented, as a member of the committee, to the insertion of salt as a free article, and in standing here to urge the Senate to repeal the duty upon it. He did, however, believe that the universal wish of his constituents was that the revenues of this Government should be reduced to the economical wants of its Treasury, and that they did not expect to reach that desirable result without themselves making their full share of sacrifices to the common object. He therefore relied upon their liberality and patriotism to justify him in the course he had pursued; and he did not doubt that they would justify their representatives upon this floor, and in the other House of Congress, in consenting to this reduction of more than half a million of tax upon one of the most prominent and universal neecessaries of life, when the money raised upon it was not only not wanted for public expenditure, but was producing dangets to our institutions greater than any which those institutions have heretofore encountered—the dangers of an over-filled Treasury and a surplus revenue. He could not be mistaken in the opinion that if the country could be effectually discharged from these startling dangers, his constituents, patriotic and intelligent as they ever had been, and still are, would not only justify, but applaud, their representatives here, for coming forward and offering this sacrifice on their behalf, to reach so im. portant a national good.
Mr. W. said the article of “wines” was another important article which had presented itself to the notice of the committee, and which they would have been inclined to make free, had it not been their duty also to notice and regard the stipulations in relation to wines in our late treaty with France. Those stipulations must be preserved with all the national faith which has throughout the whole history of our beloved country so signally distinguished her policy towards other nations; and, in the opinion of the committee, they put it out of the power of Congress to make any wines free until after the expira. tion of the term mentioned in the treaty, during which the wines of France were to have extended to them cer. tain advantages, in our revenue laws, over the wines of other countries. Under this impression the committee have recommended a further reduction, to the extent of one half, of the existing duties upon all wines, from whatever country imported; thus preserving the proportions between French and other wines, stipulated by the treaty to be preserved in our future legislation upon this subject, and pursuing the same course of legislation which Congress has, upon two former occasions, since the ratification of the treaty, pursued in regulating the duties upon wines.
Reduction of the Revenue.
As intimately connected with this branch of the reve.
nue from customs, the article of “spirits made from vinous materials” attracted the attention of the commit. tee.
eighty-five cents per gallon, according to the rates of proof at which the spirits may be imported; and that, by
- They found the existing duties upon this descrip. tion of spirits very high, ranging from fifty-three to
[JAN. 27, 1837,
applying the same reduction to this class of duties which the committee propose to apply to wines themselves, they would be able to reduce the current revenue by a sum not less than from $275,000 to $300,000 per annum. It was not without much hesitancy and doubt that the committee adopted this recommendation. They were, and are, fully sensible that a proposition for the reduction of the duties upon any description of ardent spirits will not meet with favor in the minds of a very large por. tion of our citizens. They feel no certainty that it will receive the approbation of the Senate; but so deep was the conviction in the minds of a majority of the committee of the necessity of a reduction of every duty not protective in its character, to secure the preservation of those which are so, that they felt bound to make the proposition, and present it to Congress. The reduction in the revenue which will be effected by its adoption is so important in amount, that the committee hope it will receive the calm and candid consideration of Senators before a determination shall be made to diminish so extensively the beneficial action of the bill they present. To relieve the country from the incalculable evils growing out of a surplus revenue is the object of the bill; to do that without a reduction of the protecting duties has been the intention of the committee. They have, therefore, not touched the duty upon “spirits from grain;” and they cannot suppose that the reduction they propose upon one single other description of spirits will bring them at all into injurious competition with domestic spirits of any kind. Mr. W. said he was extending his remarks surther than he had designed, as discussion now was not his object. He would not, therefore, refer to any other articles affected by the two first sections of the bill. The two great articles of salt and spirits were the only ones which he supposed could excite much interest, or lead to much discussion or opposition. Hence he had desired to bring them more particularly to the notice of the Senate. It might be found that other articles had been unwisely inserted. It would be strange is, in so extensive a list, it should not be so; but they would not be impor" tant, and might be stricken out. It would also, no doubt, be found that some articles had been omitted which ought to be made free; and it might be the pleasure o the Senate, when acting upon the bill, to extend reduc tion to articles not now included. The examinations" the committee had been careful and diligent, but the had not been as extensive and persect as they them solves could have wished, though as perfect as the tim" allowed them had permitted. He would now, Mr. W. said, offer, very briefly, the apology which the committee had to offer for present: ing the bill unaccompanied by any written report, If he had been fortunate enough to make himself understood by the Senate, in the remarks he had already made, it would be seen that no report could make the provisions of the bill more clear, or show more accurately its influence upon the revenue, and upon the articles em. braced in it, than the statement prepared by the Committee to accompany the bill would accomplish those purposes. The only object, therefore, of a report from the committee would be to give to the Senate their views, he would say their conjectures, as to the receipts and expenditures of the Government for the present and future years. After the most mature examination and reflection, it was the unanimous opinion of those members of the committee who were present, and acting in the matter, that they could make no report upon these points which would communicate to the Senate any new information, not already in the possession of every member of the body, or which would furnish any valuable or useful guides to the action of Congress upon the bill. Were it not proposed, by legislative action duo
ring the present session of Congress, to make great and
Reduction of the Revenue.
[SENATE. sue what he considered a safe course, neither endangering nor disturbing any important protected interest of the country, or the public Treasury in meeting the necessary calls upon it. He had not attempted to determine that the bill would do all that a full remedy for the existing evil demanded, but merely that, in the present state of uncertainty as to the other important branch of the public receipts, and the influences upon it of the instant legislation of Congress, it was all the committee had concluded, at present, to recommend, and that so much might be done safely. Mr. W. said there was no less difficulty in making calculations and estimates upcn the other side of this great account, the public expenditures. The ordinary expenditures of the Government, that portion of the expenses required to keep all the departments of the Government in organization and operation, were laid before us by the proper fiscal officer of the Government, and appropriations to that extent might be very safely calculated upon. All the information within the power of the committee upon this class of appropriations had been equally fully in the hands of every member of Congress, from the commencement of the session. No benefit here, then, could be derived from any report the committee could have made. All beyond this was within the pleasure of the two Houses of Congress and the President. What extraordinary appropriations they might see fit to make for fortifications, for the navy, for public defence generally, or for any other of the great objects calling for expenditures of money, it was not only out of the power of the committee to say, but would be in vain for them to attempt to conjecture. They could not, therefore, with any certainty, estimate the expenses of the year. Mr. W. said he felt conscious that the appropriations of Congress would, as he thought those appropriations should, be graduated by a due regard to the ability of the Treasury to pay, and the public and national wants to be supplied; but he also further believed that a redundant Treasury always promoted, not large merely, but extravagant appropriations; and one of his greatest anxieties to reduce the national revenues to the national wants arose from the conviction that in that way only can we preserve a system of economical expenditures. He would add no more upon this branch of the subject, hoping the Senate would find in these suggestions sufficient apology for the action of the committee in submitting the bill without any attempt at a report upon these vague uncertainties. A single other remark, (said Mr. W.,) and he would relieve the Senate from listening to him further. He had not forgotten that another bill had been introduced elsewhere upon this same subject, and proposing to ac: complish the same great purpose. He hoped he should not be considered as infringing, unpardonably, upon the rules of order, in making this reference to that measure. it might be supposed by some member of this body, it might be supposed by some member of the other House of Congress, or it might be supposed by some portion of our common constituents, that this bill, coming from the Committee on Finance, was designed to conflict with the measure referred to. For himsels, (said Mr. W.,) he could say, with perfect truth, that no such motive or feeling had entered into his action. He was sure he could say the same for his colleagues upon the committee. They had considered the reserence of the Senate, in the special manner in which it had been made, positive and mandatory upon them. A report of some sort was their duty, and the report which they believed most conformable to their duty, under the reference, was the bill he was about to present. The time for making their report was not a matter of their pleasure. If made in the shape of a bill, they were bound to make it in time to permit the possibility of action upon it; and they had
Reduction of the Rerenue.
(Jan. 27, 1837.
not been unfrequently reminded of the impatience of some members of the body for the conclusions to which they should come. Their delay had been unintentional and compulsory, and the advancement of the session had urgently admonished them that further delay would be equal to a failure to discharge the important and delicate duty intrusted to them. He (Mr. W.) thought that an examination of the two bills would satisfy every one that they could, in no sense, be antagonist to each other. The one proposes to add largely to the list of free articles, and to make material reductions upon two classes of articles not considered as belonging to the protected products or manufactures of the country. The other proposes to hasten, with very great rapidity, the reductions proposed to be made by the compromise act. It cannot, then, escape attention that there is no contradiction, in principle or action, between the two measures. Both may make too large or too rapid a reduction; but should the bill now presented fall short of its object, a sufficient reduction of the revenue from custons, it was his duty to say that no other mode of further material reductions had suggested itself to his mind, in the course of his examinations and reflections upon the subject, than to adopt the principle of that bill, moderated as to time so as to suit the exigency. He would further say, that he wished those most interested in the great and important provisions of the compromise act could see, as he thought he could see, that it was their peculiar interest to consent to a modification of that act, which should make its reductions of the revenue gradual and uniform from the present period to the year 1842; a little more rapid from this time to 1841, and much less precipitous and shocking to those interests from 1841 to 1842. As, however, the committee had no evidence before them of the seeling of the citizens most deeply interested in this policy, and as they had determined, if possible, to digest a bill which would meet with favor, and be passed into a law, they refrained from affixing any such condition to the bill they now report. As to the instant effect of the two measures, (said Mr. W.,) he believed there would be little difference. The bill he held in his hand proposed to reduce a fraction over $2,400,000, from and after the 30th June next. The other measure to which he had referred, as he understood it, proposed to reduce about $7,000,000 at three periods stated; the first of which was the 30th of September next, and the only one of the three periods falling within the present year. That measure, however, was prospective, and this was not; but Congress would be again in session before that bill would have effected but one reduction, and the accounts of the Treasury for another year would have been laid before us, as our guide to future and further action. He would detain the Senate no longer. Mr. Witight having concluded his introductory remarks explanatory of the objects of the bill, Mr. CLAY said that he wanted, at this early stage of the bill, to say only a word or two. I will begin, said he, with expressing the regret I feel that no written report accompanies this bill, and that the substitute with which we have been presented, in the verbal remarks of the Senator from New York, is not as satisfactory as I think it might have been. In considering the amount of revenue which the wants of any Government may require, two questions should be taken into view. First, the probable amount of the revenue to be received from the taxes; and, in the second place, the probable amount of the public expenditurg. If Congress have no knowledge of these, how can they know what revenue is to be raised, or what reduction may be provided for? In both of these points, the Senator from New York has utterly failed to furnish the Senate with any information.
By way of getting rid of presenting to us the probable amount of revenue, the Senator states that the Finance Committee are not able to offer any thing but uncertain conjectures. But every man who has hitherto been charged with the finances of the country, whether a Secretary of the Treasury or the chairman of a Finance Committee, has supposed it important to go into conjectures or estimates on these subjects, and to approximate as far as possible to the truth, that the Government may be enabled to form some practical estimate of the amount to which they may with propriety tax the people. But if the Senator thinks he can justify himself for this omission, how will he justify it to the country, and to those great interests which are assailed by this bill, that we have been furnished with no information touching the amount of public expenditure; and without information on either point, how has he come to the conclusion that there can exist a redundant reventie, and that it is an evil so great as to call for the legislation of Congress' But I have not risen simply to express my regret at the want of information under which we are invited to act. I have risen, at once, promptly to declare that I shall oppose, so far as my voice and my vote can go, this disturbance of the compromise arrangement made in March, 1833, under which the country has flourished in an unparalleled degree, and on which all parties have reposed as being durable and permanent. In regard to the articles of salt and spirituous liquors, both of which, but salt especially, are articles which cannot be touched without a violation of that compromise, the former is one in which my State has little interes', as connected with a tax for protection. It is the great States of New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Ohio, which are principally concerned in this question. . In my own State, some of the article is manufactured, but we are so situated that the manufacture, as existing among us, derives no advantage from any protective duty. So far, therefore, as my constituents are concerned, I care not a particle if the duty shall be repealed in toto. But I oppose the measure because I view it as what has often and expressively been denominated an entering wedge; and because it is well known that all encroachments on the system may be expected to commence under plaus'ble pretexts. The article of coal is an ins'ance of this. In the depth of winter, when, during a season of intense cold, all are shivering for the want of a more abundant supply of fuel, the cry is raised to repeal the duty on foreign coal. So salt is known by every body to be an essential article of human subsistence, and it is seized upon as furnishing a plausible article on which the duty may be reduced, or dispensed with altogether. But if these are all articles covered by the compromise, what security, what guarantee, can the country posses. that the work of reduction is to stop at that point? Will not the process, ere long, reach to cotton and to woollens? Nay, are we not already notified, while, as 1 ad. mit, the sema! or has brought us a bill less exceptionable than a corresponding one which has been introduced elsewhere, that is not “antagonistical” (I believe the term is) to that measure; that there is no hostility be. tween the two; and, if the purpose shall not be effected by this bill, for reducing the revenue to a sum not specified, that bill itself, or some kindred measure, must be resorted to? I want the country to know what is its actual condition. I want it to know whether that odious, that shocking list of articles, which has just been read by the Secretary, is to be brought up, session aster session, for discussion and gradual action, till the whole protective system is destroyed. The country has a right to know whether the peace effected by the compromise of 1833 is to be respected; or whether it is to be assailed, first, in respect to articles calculated to excite public sympathy in their favor, and then those more important
ones are at length to be reached which are essential to the prosperity of the national industry. I have now discharged what I believed to be a duty. You have the power, both in this House and the other; you can do in this matter as you think proper. Go on, then. Disturb, distract the country; reagitate the community; reopen its wounds, just closed; do this, if it seems to you good; take upon yourselves the awful responsibility; but you shall never do it with my consent, nor without my solemn protest. Mr. W RIGHT, in reply, observed that he should not argue the bill at this time. He had at present but one duty to perform, which was to report the bill. He would say again that the Finance Committee considered the amount both of revenue and expenditure for the coming year so entirely dependent on the action of Congress, that, beyond the documents already on the tables of members, the committee could state no valuable fact for their consideration. He would move that the bill be made the special order of the day for Thursday next, and that, in the mean time, the statement which had been presented in company with the bill might be printed. The printing having been ordered, Mr. DAVIS observed that this measure was one of great importance, and worthy of great consideration. He considered it desirable to keep the country out of agitation; its prosperity depended more on that than this body seemed to be fully aware of; prosperity was impossible, under any policy, unless the nation had the assu. rance of something steady in that policy. The nation wanted rest; the people need repose, that they may know what to do. He had almost said that even a bad policy, if steady, was better than a comparatively good one, if unsteady and perpetually fluctuating. This was pecu. larly true in relation to the manufactures of the country, because those who conducted these establishments, if they were able to look a few years ahead, could shape their mode of conducting business so as to meet the policy of the Governmennt. The bill proposed seriously to affect, among other articles, that of salt, in which Mr. D's State was largely interested, inasmuch as very large capitals were vested in establishments for its manufacture upon the seashore. Inasmuch, therefore, that the country might understand what was doing here, and what was sought to be accomplished by this bill, he would ask that one thousand extra copies of the statement which had accompanied the bill be printed. This was agreed to. The bill was then read a second time, and made the order of the day for Thursday next.
The following bill, which was yesterday ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, was accordingly read a third time:
A bill designating and limiting the funds receivable for the revenues of the United States.
Be it engeled, &c., That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and hereby is, required to adopt such measures as he may deem necessary to effect a collection of the public revenue of the United States, whether arising from duties, taxes, debts, or sales of lands, in the manner and on the principles herein provided: that is, that no such duties, taxes, debts, or sums of money payable for lands, shall be collected or received otherwise than in the legal currency of the United States, or in notes of banks which are payable and paid on demand in the said legal currency of the United States, under the following restrictions and conditions in regard to such notes, to wit: from and after the passage of this act, the notes of no bank which shall issue or circulate bills or notes of
on account of the public dues; and from and after the thirtieth day of December, eighteen hundred and thirtynine, the notes of no bank which shall issue or circulate bills or notes of a less denomination than ten dollars shall be so receivable; and from and after the thirtieth day of December, one thousand eight hundred and forty-one, the like prohibition shall be extended to the notes of all banks issuing bills or notes of a less denomination than twenty dollars. Sec. 2. 1nd be it further enacted, That no notes shall be received by the collectors or receivers of the public money which the banks in which they are to be deposited shall not, under the supervision and control of the Secretary of the Treasury, agree to pass to the credit of the United States as cash: Provided, That if any deposite bank shall refuse to receive and pass to the credit of the United States, as cash, any notes receivable under the provisions of this act, which said bank, in the ordinary course of business, receives on general deposite, the Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized to withdraw the public deposites from said bank. The question being on the passage of the bill, Mr. If ENTON rose and commenced his speech against its passage will stating the reason why he had not spoken the evening before, when the question was on the engrossment of the bill. IIe said that he could not have foreseen that the subject depending before the Senate, the bill sor limiting the sales of ū. lands to actual settlers, would be laid down for the purpose of taking up this subject out of its order; and, therefore, had not brought with him some memorandums which he intended to use when this subject came up. He did not choose to ask for delay, because his habit was to speak to subjects when they were called; and in this particular cause he did not think it material when he spoke; for he was very well aware that his speaking would not affect the fate of the bill. It would pass; and that was known to all in the chamber. It was known to the Senator from Ohio [Mr. Ew INs) who indulged himself in saying he thought otherwise a few days ago; but that was only a good-natured way of stimulating his friends; and bring: ing them up to the scratch. The bill would pass, and that by a good vote, for it would have the vote of the opposition, and a division of the administration vote. why, then, did he speak? Because it was due to his position, and the part he had acted on the currency questions, to express his sentiments more fully on this bill, so vital to the general currency, than could be done by a mere negative vote. He should, therefore, speak against it, and should direct his attention to the bill reported by the Public Land Committee, which had so totally changed the character of the proceeding on this subject. The recision of the Treasury order was introduced a resolution—it went out a resolution—but it came back a bill, and a bill to regulate, not the land office receipts only, but all the receipts of the Federal Government; and in this new form is to become statute law, and a law to operate on all the revenues, and to repeal all other laws upon the subject to which it related. in this new form it assumes an importance, and acquires an effect, infinitely beyond a resolution, and becomes, in fact as well as in name, a totally new measure. Mr. B. reminded the Senate that he had, in his first speech on this subject, given it as his opinion, that two main objects were proposed to be accomplished by the rescinding resolution: first, the implied condemnation of President Jackson for violating the laws and constitution, and destroying the prosperity of the country; and, secondly, the imposition of the paper currency of the States upon the Federal Government. With respect to the first of these objects, he presumed it was fully proved by the speeches of all the opposition Senators who had
a less denomination than five dollars shall be received WvL. XIII.-37
spoken on this subject; and, with respect to the second,