some remedy for such a state of things, or sink under it. It is in vain to tell us that the Senators from the new States are as capable of giving an independent vote on measures connected with the public lands as those from the old States. It is impossible, in the nature of things. Their constituents have that feeling of ownership which is naturally inseparable from the occupation of the soil; and it must and will control the action of their representatives.

And now I put it to the bosom of every Senator, whether the mere moneyed income derived from the public domain is to be compared for one moment to the great advantage of putting these Senators on the same independent footing with ourselves? I look with sympathy upon their condition, and I feel very sure they will be liberated from it with joy. Such, I am very sure, would be my feelings in the like circumstances. So long as there was no attempt to use the control of the public Jands for purposes of a political character, their condition was very different; but since this has been swept into the great vortex of political influence, their situation is wholly changed. I am for knocking off their chains. Sir, said Mr. C., I have, on a deliberate view of the whole case, entered upon this course, and I am resolved to go for this measure with all my power. I seek not its popularity or influence. I had rather that some other individual had moved in it, as more than one Senator here can bear me witness; but none would move, and I have therefore determined to proceed. I believe the time has arrived, and I am resolved to go on in the face of all the imputations to which my motives may be liable. I have often done my duty under very difficult circumstances, as all who hear me well know. As to popularity, I despise it. I would not turn on my heel to obtain it. It is a fleeting shadow, unworthy of the pursuit of an upright man. No, sir, I move here on a conscientious conviction of high and imperious duty; and I shall therefore go forward until I have effected my object, if it can be effected. I believe it will prove, in its practical results, a great blessing to the country. I am convinced no stronger measure can be devised for withdrawing the public lands from the great game of political scrambling and gambling for the presidency.

As to the details of the bill: I am under the impression that the sum demanded from the new States for the cession of these lands should be moderate, especially consid ering that they will be charged with the whole trouble and expense of their administration; and that, from the nature of the human mind, they will necessarily have the feeling that they possess a better right to these lands than others, from the fact of their occupancy. The next rea son is, that we may prevent any disturbance from a feeling of discontent, but that the arrangement we make may be viewed as a liberal one, even by the new States themselves. So desirous am I to effect this object, that I will consent to modify this feature of the bill, by inserting almost any rate per cent. which the new States shall, on the whole, deem most prudent and advisable. Another reason why I have set the bonus at a low rate is a desire that the plan should operate as a benefit to the new States. I wish to counteract the tendency to running down of the price of land, and to secure its sale at prices calculated for the benefit of all parties. To secure this, I have inserted a provision, that if there shall be any departure from this condition of the cession, the grant itself shall be void, so as to make it a judicial question.

This measure is not, as has been said, a surrendering of the public domain to a few States of the Union. The lands are not surrendered; they are ceded, on terms by which this Government will make the most of them, even on a mere calculation of money. But I hope all such considerations will be held as entirely secondary and subordinate to greater and higher interests. All, I am

[FEB. 9, 1837.

confident, feel that there must be some remedy devised for the existing evils connected with this subject. There is too much action here; how it enures, and to whose advantage, we have fully seen. It is the great evil of patronage, which, if not limited and curtailed, will render perfectly futile all efforts to preserve the liberties of the country. My ideas on this subject are well known. It is the law of our political situation that, as our territory spreads, and our population is augmented, the action at the centre of the system must be diminished more and more. It should be confined merely to the sustaining of a harmonious intercourse of the several portions of the confederacy; a harmony of parts throughout the great and wide-spread system. I solemnly believe that a knowledge of this great fundamental law, and a steadfast adherence to it, are the only means by which our freedom can be preserved. We must watch the stealthy advance of power, and resist it, step by step. We must not suf fer every power of this Government to be perverted into an engine for President making. Let us apply, at once, the axe to the root.

These are my motives in bringing forward this important measure, and not a grovelling desire of popularity, or any reserved hope of personal benefit to be enjoyed hereafter; I hold all such things light as air. I seek to do my duty, and to preserve, so far as I can, the liberties of my country.

Mr. WEBSTER said it was because he had thought it more respectful to the Senator from South Carolina to move a reconsideration, than to make a motion to lay the bill on the table, that he had moved the former. But if that gentleman could not consent to reconsider, he must, however reluctantly, be compelled to move that the bill be laid upon the table.

After some conversation,

Mr. ROBINSON withdrew his motion for a select committee, and

Mr. WEBSTER renewed the motion to reconsider; (which motion brings up the whole subject for discussion.)

He did this, he said, with a view to take the sense of the Senate, desiring that the bill might come up to-mor row. But if the Senator from South Carolina was disposed to enter into the discussion on the present motion, it could proceed in that way.

Mr. CALHOUN expressed his regret that the bill should be opposed at this early stage, and in so unusual a manner. As long as I have been a member of this and the other House, (said Mr. C.,) I cannot recollect more than three or four instances, before the present, in which a bill has been opposed at its second reading, and then under very peculiar circumstances. And why, may I ask, is the usual course departed from on the present occasion? Why not let this bill receive its second reading and be referred, as other bills are, to a committee, to be considered and reported on? The reply is, to prevent agitation; that is, as I understand it, to prevent the feelings of the public from being excited and its attention directed to this highly important subject. If that be the intention, I tell gentlemen they will fail in their object. The subject is already before the public; and, if my life be spared, I shall keep it there-shall agitate it till the public attention shall be roused to a full and thorough investigation of a measure that I firmly believe is not less essential to the interest of the whole Union than it is to that of the new States. I tell them more: that the very unusual and extraordinary course they have adopted, in opposition to this bill, will but more deeply agitate the public mind, and the more intensely attract its attention to the subject. It will naturally excite the inquiry, why not let this bill take the ordinary course? Why not let it go to a committee, to investigate its provisions, and present all the argu.

ment, whose power and patronage are ramified over their whole surface, and whose domains constitute so large a portion of their territory. I certainly did not anticipate that the Senator from Massachusetts, or any other, would deny the existence of this dependence, or the local control of the Government within their limits. Can any thing be more local than the lands of a State? and can any State be said to be free from dependence on a Government, when that Government has the administration of a large portion of its domain? Is it no hardship that the citizens of the new States should be compelled to travel nine or ten hundred miles to this place, and to wait our tardy justice on all claims connected with the public lands; a subject, in its own nature, the most local of all, and which ought, above all others, to be under the charge of the local authority of the States? I ask him if he would be willing to see Massachusetts placed in the same relation to this Government? and, if it were, whether it would not destroy its independence?" I ask him if it must not give a great and controlling influence wherever it exists? Through its lands, authority and action of the Government pervades the whole territory of the new States, and their citizens become claimants at your doors, session after session, either for favor or justice. I do not say that all this is incompatible with the sovereignty of those States, but I do aver that it is in derogation of their sovereignty.

The Senator next objects to this measure, that it would not free Congress from its present difficulties, in reference to the public domain. He says that we should soon have the new States here, besieging us with me. morials to alter the conditions of cession, with all the dependence and difficulties of which we now complain. My impression is very different. Make the terms liberal, and they will be satisfied. They will relieve Congress from the whole burden of business, as far as the lands are concerned, which now occupies so much of its time; and the public councils will no longer be under the dangerous influence inseparable from their management. If hereafter a new state of things should arise, and the arrangement proposed in the bill should require reversion, it will be for those who come after us to apply a remedy; and I have no fear but they will do their duty.

The Senator next insists that the acquisition of these lands will prove no benefit to the new States, and predicts that it would involve them in incessant agitation and trouble. Such might be the case, if the cession was absolute; but the bill contains provisions which will prove an effectual check against these difficulties. To place its provisions beyond alteration or attack, it is expressly provided that, if they should be violated by the States, the cession itself should be void, and all grants made subsequent thereto shall be null and of no effect. They are thus placed under the safeguard of the Judiciary, and the courts of the Union will determine on questions growing out of their infraction.

For this purpose, the cession has assumed the form of a compact, and I feel confident that, under its provisions, the new States would administer the land without agitation or any sericus trouble or difficulty. If this can be effected, I appeal to the Senators, whether the land within their limits ought not to be under their local administration? I, for one, feel that we of the old States have not, and cannot have, that full and accurate local knowledge necessary for their proper management. Of all the branches of our business, it is that which I least understand. From this defect of information, the Land Committee has it almost exclusively under its sole control, whenever it is so constituted as to attract in any degree the confidence of the House. This has been the case from the first. I well remember, that when I first took my seat in the other House, Jeremiah Morrow, a member from Ohio, a man of great integrity and good sense, was the

(FEB. 9, 1837.

chairman of the Committee on Public Lands, and was, in fact, the sole legislator on all subjects connected with them; and in this body we have almost invariably yield. ed our judgment to the committee, from a conscious want of information. The difficulty is growing_from year to year, with the vast increase of the new States and Territories, and the growing complication of our land code; and the consequent increase of business is such that we already have scarce time to despatch it with due attention. In a short time the increase will be doubled; and what shall we then do By passing this bill, we will be wholly relieved from this burden, and the questions we are now compelled to determine with out adequate knowledge will then be settled by those whose local knowledge will make them familiar and well acquainted with the subject.

But we are told by the Senator that the public lands have been well administered by the General Government, and that he cannot surrender bis belief but that they will continue so to be. That they were well administered in the early stages of the Government, while they were not an object of much pecuniary or political interest, I am ready to admit; but I hold it not less certain, that as the number and population of the new States increase, and, with them, the value of the public lands and the political importance of those States, we must become year by year less and less competent to their management, till finally we shall become wholly so. I believe that we are not now far from that period. Does not the Senator see the great and growing influence of the new States, and that it is in the power of any unprincipled and ambitious man from one of them to wield that influence at his pleasure? Should he propose any measure in relation to the public lands, be it ever so extravagant and dangerous, the members from the new States dare not vote against it, however adverse to the measure. It is useless to disguise the fact that our possession of so much land in the new States creates and cherishes an antagonist feeling on their part towards the Government, as to every measure that relates to them. They naturally consider your policy as opposed to their interest, and as retarding their growth and prosperity, as great as they We must take human nature as it is, and accommodate our measures to it, instead of making the vain attempt to bend it to our measures. We must calculate that the means of control, which this state of things puts into the hands of the ambitious and designing, will not be neglected; and, instead of idly complaining, let us remove the cause by wise and timely legislation. The difficulties and dangers are daily on the increase. Four years more will probably add three more new States, and six additional Senators, with a great increase of members in the other House; and, what is more important, a corresponding increase of votes and influence in the electoral college. Can you doubt the consequences? The public lands, with their immense patronage, will be brought to bear more and more on the action of Congress; will control the presidential elections; and the result will be, that he who uses this vast fund of power with the least scruple will carry away the prize.

arc.

The Senator himself sees and acknowledges the approach of this dangerous period, and agrees that, when it does come, we must surrender the public lands within the new States; but is for holding on till it shall have actually arrived. My opinion is the reverse. I regard it as one of the wisest maxims in human affairs, that when we see an inevitable evil, like this, not to be resisted, approaching, to make concessions in time, while we can do it with dignity, and not to wait until necessity com. pels us to act, and when concession, instead of gratitude, will excite contempt. The maxim is not new. derived it from the greatest of modern statesmen, Edmund Burke. He urged its adoption on the British Gov

1 have

ernment, in the early stages of our Revolution; and if the obstinate and infatuated statesman, Lord North, then at the head of affaris, had listened to his warning voice, it may be doubted whether our Revolution would have taken place; but events were ordered otherwise. The voice of wisdom was unheeded, and the Revolution followed, with all its consequences, which have so greatly changed the condition of the world.

I have thus hastily, and without the advantage of previous reflection, replied to the arguments of the Senator from Massachusetts. I would have been much gratified if a course better suited to the magnitude of the subject and more favorable for full and deliberate discussion, had been adopted; but, as it is, I have passed over no argument, as far as I can remember, which he advanced, and, I trust, have replied to none which I have not successfully refuted.

I shall now conclude with a few remarks in reply to the Senator from New Jersey, [Mr. SOUTHARD.] He tells us that he will not bid for the new States. (I regret, said Mr. C., that I do not see him in his place.) Does he mean to intimate that, in introducing this bill, Í am bidding for them? If he does, I throw back the injurious imputation. I indignantly repel the charge. No, sir, I am not a bidder. What I have done has been from an honest conviction of duty, and not less for the benefit of the old than the new States. The measure 1 conscientiously believe would be alike serviceable to both.

[Mr. SOUTHARD, who had been absent, here returned to the chamber. Mr. C., seeing him, repeated his remarks; on which, Mr. S. disclaimed having said any thing like what Mr. C. understood him to have said. On which, Mr. C. resumed:]

I am happy to hear it. I felt confident that the Senator could not intend to cast so injurious an imputation on me, and I rejoice to hear from his own lips the frank and honorable disclosure he has made.

But I not only believe the measure to be beneficial and expedient, but I firmly believe it to be indispensable, in order to restore the Government to a sound and healthy condition.

The tendency of our system to centralism, with its ruinous consequences, can be no longer denied. To counteract this, its patronage must be curtailed. There are three great sources to which its immense patronage may be mainly traced, and by which the Government is enabled to exert such an immense control over public opinion-the public lands, the post office, and the currency. The first may be entirely removed. This bill will cut it up root and branch. By a single stroke we would not only retrench this growing and almost boundless source of patronage, but also free ourselves from the pressure of an immense mass of business, which encumbers our legislation, and divides and distracts our attention; and this would be done without impairing, in the long run, our pecuniary resources. In addition, the measure would place the Senators from the new States on the same equal and independent footing in this chamber with ourselves. In such results who would not rejoice? The Senators from the new States would especially have cause to rejoice in the change. Relieve them from the dependent condition of their States, and they would be found in the front ranks, sustaining the laws and the con. stitution against the encroachments of power.

But the Senator from New Jersey tells us that we have no power to pass this bill, as it would be in violation of the ordinance which makes the public land a common fund for the benefit of all the States; and that we, as trustees, are bound to administer it strictly in reference to the object of the trust. In reply, I might ask the Senator how he can reconcile his construction of the ordinance with the constant practice of the Government,

[SENATE.

in which, if I mistake not, it has been sustained by his vote? How many grants have been made out of the public domain to colleges, academies, asylums for the deaf and dumb, and other institutions of like character? If such concessions be consistent with the provisions of the ordinance, what prevents this bill from being so also? But I rest not my reply on that ground. I meet the Senator according to his interpretation of the ordinance. I assert boldly that the disposition this bill proposes to make of the portion of the public domain within the new States is the very best, under existing circumstances, that can be made, regarding it in reference to the common interest of all the States. Let it be borne in mind, that all sides agree the new States will soon be able to command their terms, when others less favorable to the common interest may be imposed. If we of the old States make it a point to hold on to the last, they will, by a necessary reaction, make it a point to extort all they can when they get the power. But if we yield in time, a durable arrangement may be made, mutually beneficial and satisfactory to both parties.

The Senator further objects, that if this bill should pass, its provisions would be extended, from necessity, to all States which may hereafter be admitted into the Union. I must say, I see no such necessity; but my present impression is, that such would be the course that wisdom would dictate. According to my mode of thinking, all the revenue we may derive from the sales of lands in a State, after its admission, is not to be compared in importance to its independence as a sovereign member of the Union; for there is no danger of the falling of our institutions for the want of pecuniary means, while there is no small danger of their overthrow from the growing and absorbing attraction of this central power.

Mr. WEBSTER objected to the delay, and to having any impression made abroad that a majority of the Senate could be brought to look favorably on such a scheme.

Mr. WALKER was opposed to having the subject referred to the Committee on the Public Lands, because a majority of that committee consisted of members from the new States. And, however upright and honorable might be their intentions, they would be liable to have their judgments warped by their position and prejudices. Mr. W. would be unwilling to trust his own judgment on such

question. He should greatly prefer that the bill be sent to a select committee, so organized that a majority of its members should consist of gentlemen from the older and larger States of the Union; so that, if possible, a plan containing the general principles of this bill might be devised, in which all parties would agree. It was no new proposition. It had been made long ago. Senators from the older States had sustained it by their speeches, and it had been repeatedly recom. mended by the President. It had been advocated by the Vice President also, by Mr. Tazewell, and by the venerable Macon, who advocated a measure even more liberal than that now proposed. Mr. W. hoped that the Senate would neither be excited nor alarmed by appeals from any quarter. He had no idea of any definitive action on the subject during the present session, but he wished that a full report might be obtained, and the whole subject maturely considered.

He ap

Mr. BENTON was opposed to the motion for reconsideration, and in favor of a select committee. proved of both the leading principles of the bill-the cession to the new States and the graduation of pricebut not of all its detalis. He was unwilling to bind his constituents for 30 years, as the Western strength would be very soon vastly augmented. He hoped that the Senators from the old States would take up the subject, and present a report upon it. This would be a prepar atory step, and make some progress towards the object