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The next subject to which I will call the attention of the committee, is the manufacture of sugar. Sir, it is proposed by this bill to reduce the duty on sugar one-half cent per pound. This looks like a small sum when we advert only to the duty on one pound; but when we come to apply it to millions, it becomes a question of vast importance; and, as my honorable friend from Louisiana [Mr. White] said the other day, there is no telling what may be its effect; they may be able to go on; they may be overwhelmed with ruin by it. The manufacture of sugar, I have been often told by gentlemen familiar with that subject, yields a very precarious and uncertain profit. Its success depends upon many circumstances, about which it is impossible beforehand to make any certain calculation. Some years the profits will be pretty handsome; some years the losses will be very severe. But, sir, I wish to state to the committee the amount of capital which is invested in this business, and to show its intimatc connexion with other branches of agriculture, and with the agriculture of the Western States particularly.
It is stated, upon the best authority, that in Louisiana alone there are more than five hundred sugar-plantations. These plantations employ a capital of at least fifty millions of dollars. Now let us see how this capital operates on the agriculture of the Western States.
We will take one of those plantations, capable, in a good season, of producing 400,000 pounds of sugar; we will first examine the amount of capital invested, and the manner of its investment. The first item I find is land, 1,500 acres, The next is ninety hands, at 600 dollars each,
* Wher, it was proposed to repeal the duty, Mr. VINtoN, of Ohio, stated, in the House of Representatives of the United States, that a reduced duty would not affect the cost to consumers, though destroying a large amount of domestic capital and employment.
Mr. Donnning F, of Virginia, said that he had seen $12 given in his country for a bushel of alum salt, and recollected when it was reduced to $5, because of the improvement of the mountain roads; but that the price remained at three dollars until the Kanawha works displaced the foreign article. He had seen the time when twenty-four bushels of wheat would not pay for one of alum salt; and, at the same place, he had seen salt so reduced in price, that a barrel of it would not pay for a barrel of flour. He supposed that a bushel of foreign salt had not been consumed in more than half of his (congressional) district for the fifteen preceding years; and thought, if such salt was wholly excluded, the whole quantity required would be furnished without inconvenience.
Mr. REen, of Massachusetts, referred to many proceedings of the Revolutionary Congress, to encourage the manufacture of salt, and, at the date of these resolutions, he said that the business had been commenced in his neighborhood, by evaporating sea water. That the capital now vested in the manufacture in Massachusetts aunounted to 1,754,576 dollars, making, annually, 503,636 bushels of salt, equal to the best alum, or Turk’s Island. That the repeal of the duty in 1807, though almost ruinous to manufacturers, rendered only a small and temporary benefit to consumers. That there were more than eight hundred small factories in his district, whose competition had reduced the price to thirty cents for fifty-six pounds of salt, (the duty being then twenty cents on that quantity, and he estimated the whole capital employed in the domestic manufacture at eight millions of dollars.
[H. of R. Forty pairs of working oxen, at $50 per pair, 2,000 Forty horses, at $100 each, - - - - 4,000 Horizontal sugar mill, - - - - - 4,000 Two sets of boilers, at $1,500 each, - - - 3,000 Buildings of all descriptions, - - - 25,000 Twelve carts, - - - - - - 1,200 Thirty ploughs, - - - - - - 300 All other utensils, such as timber, wheels, hoes, spades, axes, scythes, &c. &c. - - 1,500 $170,000
This, sir, is the annual expense of one of these plantations, distributed among the farmers, the mechanics, the horse and slave-driver; and even the medical gentleman comes in for his share, and a snug little sum of five hundred dollars goes to the support of Government, by way of taxes. - The expense of one plantation, to be sure, does not make a very imposing figure; but let us see what are the annual expenses of five hundred plantations. Why, sir, it is just the little sum of five million three hundred and fisty thousand dollars, principally distributed among the farmers and mechanics of the country. , Sir, if I were legislating here upon local principles, looking to the immediate interest of my constituents alone, without regard to the general prosperity of my whole country, to destroy this interest would be the last thing I should think of doing, to promote theirs. What view any gentleman upon this floor from Tennessee; what view any gentleman here from the waters of the great Mississippi, can take of this question, which will cause him to vote for destroying the sugar plantations, is passing strange to me. We have great difficulty in the West now in finding a market for our surplus produce; and, in my opinion, if, by our legislation here, we were to destroy the manufacture of sugar in Louisiana, the policy would be perfectly suicidal. Destroy this system, and the rich alluvial bottoms of the Mississippi will be at once converted into fields of cotton, corn, and rice, and the whole agricultural community up the Mississippi, and its tributaries, will feel the shock most ruinously. The supply of agricultural products is already much greater than the demand. This preposterous act of ours—and gentlemen must excuse me, for I cannot call it by any name less offensive—instead of increasing the demand, will greatly augment the supply. I repeat, sir, that to me it is matter of profound astonishment, that any man, representing upon this floor the interest of any portion of Tennessee, should, by his vote, paralyze the operations of the sugar plantations.
Such a man must be manacled in party politics, and compelled to subserve the views of men rather than the good of his constituents. From such politicians may God preserve our country!. I have said, Mr. Chairman, what would be my course if I were legislating with a view to the interest of my constituents alone. But, sir, I am proud to announce to the committee that I go against destroying the sugar plantations, upon other and more enlarged considerations than merely because they benefit my constituents. I go against destroying them, because they form a link in that chain of policy which alone can make us independent of foreign Powers. Destroy these plantations, and you at once place us at the mercy, and make us dependent upon foreign Powers for every pound of this most essential and univer. sal article of consumption; and in a short time we shall be compelled to pay at least double what we have to pay now. Sir, I call upon gentlemen to reflect before they destroy a system which has given us a better and a cheaper article than we ever had before. I recollect very distinctly when my constituents had to give for common brown sugar twenty-five cents per pound. They now get a much superior article for half that price. On these subjects of great national policy, the system must be taken altogether. The man who has to legislate on them ought to be able to survey the whole Union, and see how it will operate. It is in vain to legislate to promote the interest of one section of the Union, to the disparagement of all others. This partial and local system of legislation, I am proud to say, my constituents do not desire. They would feel the most profound contempt for any man who pretended to be a politician, and who was thus contracted and limited in his views of policy. They would laugh him to scorn; they would tell him that, in their estimation, he occupied in the political world the same station which the dry-land terrapin occupies in the animal world. Sir, my constituents are for the Union, the whole Union; and when they instruct me to vote to protect the sugar manufactures in Louisiana, it is not because they are immediately and directly interested in those manufactures, but because, as I before said, it is an important link in the great chain of national policy. For the same reason, sir, they have taught me to believe it was right to give protection to the cotton and woollen manufactures of Massachusetts. Massachusetts is one member of our national family. She is the venerable sister who rocked the cradle of our independence. I meet with no man who does not admit that Massachusetts did as much, if not more, than any State in the Union, in achieving that independence of which we all so proudly boast. Sir, in that protracted, but glorious struggle, she not only freely expended her treasure, but she consecrated the cause of liberty, by pouring out the blood of her noblest sons. She has been a great sufferer in building up this very policy which we are called upon to destroy. But gentlemen, in answer to all this, very phlegmatically say, Massachusetts has behaved badly in latter times. I agree, sir, that, at one period “ in latter times,” she did put on a good many airs; she scolded and flirted, and said many hard words; but she never has gone as far as some of her sisters have gone, before and since, although, in my humble opinion, she has had much greater cause of complaint than any of them have had. Massachusetts was emphatically a commercial State. Her vocation was upon the ocean. She was carrying on “free trade” with all the world, much to her own advantage as she thought, when she was interrupted by the introduction of the “American system” by Virginia. Gentlemen must not make wry faces when they are told that the seeds of this system were sown by Virginia. Sir, the restrictive system, the non-intercourse laws, and the embargo, which fell with such a heavy and disastrous hand upon the commerce of Massa
chusetts, had their origin in the Virginia doctrines of that
day. These measures greatly crippled and weakened the commerce of Massachusetts. Yea, sir, they cost her millions. Before she had time to recover her wonted energies, she was again driven from the ocean by the late war. A succession of adverse events crowded upon her, one close upon the heels of another, until utter ruin seemed to be her certain doom. Her citizens were thrown completely out of employment; they saw every thing decaying and falling into ruin around them. These things produced very great excitement, as a matter of course; and the orators of the day said many foolish things, I have no doubt, and some of the people committed some foolish acts. But, sir, at their maddest period, they never went, by a stone's throw, as far as South Carolina has now gone. During the war we ascertained our weak points. We saw, as I before have stated, that we were dependent upon foreign Powers for the essential articles for carrying on a war. We of the South and West saw and felt the great necessity of building up some system of policy which would make us completely independent of all foreign Powers. The Virginia policy of protecting domestic manufactures by laying high duties on foreign goods imported here, was adopted in 1816, with increased energy. By this time, however, Massachusetts had recommenced her old and favorite pursuit, and was fairly again before the breeze, prosecuting a most vigorous and profitable commerce. But here, again, she was doomed to another sad reverse of fortune. We commenced building up the American system. We told Massachusetts that she must divide her profits with the manufacturer and the farmer. In short sir, by legislative act after legislative act, we drove her almost entirely from the ocean, and compelled her, in self-defence, to take shel. ter in the workshops. Yes, sir, we coerced her to commence manufacturing; and what her hand findeth to do, she does with all her might. She became reconciled to her fate, and determined to make the most out of manufactures that she could. And now, sir, just as she and others, who have, under the protection held out and extended by our laws, ventured all they have in that system, are beginning to realize some of its benefits, she and they are told by us, you must now turn your attention to something else; you must abandon your millions vested in manufactures; your profits are entirely too great. It is true, we could pursue the same business if we would; the tariff, or protecting laws, give us the same protection south of the Potomac that they give you north of it, but we do not choose to avail ourselves of these advantages; and we have determined you shall not. This is the state of things upon which we are now called to act, and I appeal to gentlemen to pause before they make this sacrifice. I, for one, cannot find it in my soul to do it; I consider it a ruinous step to the whole nation; I consider it most dishonorable and dishonest to withdraw now our plighted protection from those States who, under the presumed good faith of an American Congress, have embarked their all in the system. Sir, I represent liberal and enlightened freemen on this subject, and I will not do an act so totally unworthy of them as this would be; an act which they would disdain to do; an act which I should feel merited their frowns and their scoffs. My constituents, sir, have no feelings of ill-will to gratify towards Massachusetts, or any of the other States, and especially none towards Massachusetts. They feel that their interest can in nowise be promoted by destroying the prosperity of any of the New England States. Sir, since I have had the honor of a seat in this House, I have found none more willing to do justice to my constituents than the Representatives from Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Vermont. My constituents know these things, and appreciate them. Many other most interesting views might be presented to the committee on this subject, but I feel that I have detained them already too long, and
JAx. 24, 1833.]
will, therefore, pass on by merely glancing at one or two other subjects.
I will now, very briefly, notice the growth and manufacture of wool; and the first thing to which I will call the attention of the committee on this subject, is, the amount of capital vested in this business. It is useless, sir, for me to make any comment upon this item; I therefore content myself with merely calling the attention of the committee to the amount of capital employed, the number of persons engaged and supported by it, and the amount of agricultural products consumed by it. . He that runs may read, and every man can estimate for himself what the effect upon the community, particularly the farming community, will be by destroying this branch of our national industry. The probable number of sheep in the United States is 20,000,000, and worth, on an average, two dollars per head, The sheep farms, generally, do not support three sheep to the acre, summer and winter, though the land be pretty good, and well managed. Of the 20,000,000 sheep, it is supposed that about 5,000,000 are in the State of New York, having had 3,496,539 in 1825, the latest returns at hand; and it is known that many of these sheep are fed upon lands worth from sixteen to thirty dollars per acre; and in Dutchess county, in which are over 500,000 sheep, the lands on which they are fed are worth about twenty-five dollars per acre. It is then probable that the average worth of farms in the United States capable of supporting three sheep to every acre throughout the year, is
ten dollars the acre: 20,000,000 of sheep will require 6,666,666 acres, at ten dollars, - - -. - - 65,000,000
Capital in sheep, and lands to feed them,
The 20,000,000 sheep produced 50,000,000 pounds of wool annually, the average value of which, for three years, 1829, 1830, and 1831, exceeded forty cents per pound, or $20,000,000. (The crop of 1831 was worth more than $25,000,000.) The crop of wool, having reference to the whole quantity made into cloth of various qualities, is worth $40,000,000, which is about the gross annual product of wool and its manufactures in the United States. If the woollen goods imported, valued at $6,000,000, be added, there will be allowed for cach person in the United States three and a half dollars worth of woollen goods per annum, including blankets, carpets, &c., as well as clothing.
The fixed and floating capital vested in the woollen manufactories in the United States, such as lands, water-rights, buildings, machinery, and stock on hand, and cash employed, may be estimated at - 40,000,000
Capital directly vested in the growth and manufacture of wool, - - - $145,000,000
The proportion between the amount of wool used in the factories, and worked up by household industry, is as three to two, and, on the average, it will employ one person to work up 1,000 pounds of
wool annually, or 50,000 persons in the whole. It is reasonable to suppose that each laborer subsists two other persons, say 150,000 in all, deriving a direct support from the woollen manufacture, or otherwise. Each person will consume at least twentyfive dollars worth of agricultural products annually, or $3,750,000 worth of subsistence, The average product of farms cultivated for the supply of food does not exceed two dollars and fifty cents per acre yearly, after subsisting the cultivators, and those dependent on them. It will therefore require 1,500,000 acres of land to feed those manufacturers and their dependents, worth, say, fifteen dollars per acre, is - - - - - 22,500,000 Capital involved in the growth and manufacture of wool in the United States, - $167,500,000
Making the whole number of persons employed because of the manufacture of wool, 162,000, and requiring of the product of manufacture, for materials and subsistence, the very large amount per annum of $25,050,000. And it should be observed that there is no foreign market to which we can send our $25,000,000 worth of wool, and breadstuffs, and meats. It would all be as if annually lost to landholders and cultivators, were the home market destroyed in abandoning the manufactures of wool; and those who are now consumers of the products of agriculture must, of necessity, become producers, and lessen the prices of grain, &c.
The next subject is cotton.
The principal ground of complaint in the South is the fall in price of their great staple, cotton. A very brief statement of facts will set this upon its proper footing. A general remark, applicable to all branches of business, will apply to the growth of cotton in the United States.
that the demand has by no means kept up with the sup: ply. The whole crop of cotton grown in the United States, in 1816, was about 68,000,000 pounds; the price of cotton that year was twenty-nine cents per pound; it fell the following year to twenty-six cents; in 1818 it rose to thirty-three cents; thus giving a most extravagant profit to the cotton grower of the South, and had the effect that great profits always have upon every employment in this country, where every citizen is at liberty to embark in any business that he may believe most profitable. Thus it was with the cotten business: and from 68,000,000 pounds in 1816, it has now increased to more than 300,000,000 pounds; and, as a matter of course, prices began to come down; and down and down
they come, until that business is not much more profitable than other branches of agriculture, though I am told it is still something more so; and I have no hesitation in saying it would be much more decreased in price than it is, were it not for the home market which our manufactories create. It is estimated that these manufactories of cotton consumed upwards of one-fifth of the whole cotton crop in the United States. South Carolina ought to reflect that, since 1816, the cotton-planting business has spread itself into the Southwestern States, and that they grow almost two pounds where the Atlantic States grow one; for instance, in 1831, the Atlantic States produced 148,000,000 pounds, and the Southwestern States produced 227,000,000. These facts, to my mind, show conclusively the reasons why the price of cotton is down at its present low ebb, and they show equally that if it were not for the manufactories, which consume annually about 77,000,000 pounds of raw cotton, the price would be made lower than it is. The capital employed in the cotton manufacture in the United States at this time, is estimated at $44,914,984. There are 23,300 men employed in this business, and 39,000 women, and 5,121 children under the age of twelve years. The wages paid to these men, women, and children, per annum, is $12,155,722. The number of persons subsisted directly by the cotton manufacture is 131,481. 1,641,353 pounds of starch are consumed by them annually: 17,245 barrels of flour for sizing, are consumed by them. 46,519 cords of wood are used by them. 24,420 tons of mine coal, and upwards of 9,000 tons of charcoal, are consumed. I omit many items, and enumerate these merely to show the intimate connexion between the agriculture and labor of the country and the cotton manufactories. Nothing can be more interesting than this subject, and, if I had time, I would pursue it through all its various ramifications, and show its effects upon the community; but I must pass on.
have had but a small value, if any value at all, except because of these factories in many places. “In the preceding amounts of persons employed or subsisted, or wages paid, no regard is had to the very numerous individuals employed by, or making profit upon the supply or preparation of materials, in the transportation of them, by land or water, the factories, or in the carriage of the articles made, to the markets for them; the value of all which must be much . than the sum paid to workmen employed in the manufacture itself, which probably subsists, directly and indirectly, not less than 25,000 persons; affording for the whole an average annual value of $120 each, including, of course, interest on capital earned.” I have taken a very hasty view of some of the most important branches of American industry. The observations which I have made, have not been upon the details of the bill before us. That part of the subject has been most fully and amply investigated by several gentlemen who have preceded me in the discussion. I think it has been conclusively shown that, if this bill pass, the whole system of which I have been speaking, must fall to the ground. If gentlemen are really desirous of understanding the details of this bill, I beg them to commune freely with my friend who sits near to me, [Mr. Appleton, who will take a great deal of pleasure in giving them any information on that subject; and I believe all parties admit that no gentleman upon this floor is more competent to the task. Upon the whole, after diligent inquiry, after a patient examination of the whole system of protecting our own labor from foreign competition, a thing which all other nations do, I have been brought irresistibly to the conclusion that it has benefited the farmers; that it has benefited the mechanics; that it has benefited our commerce, foreign and domestic; that this system, (by a voluntary tax, if, indeed, it be a tax at all, when by it we get cheaper and better articles than we ever did before,) I say, that this system, while it has protected our own citizens, has supplied the current expenses of Government, has paid off an immense national debt, which otherwise must have been paid by grinding and oppressing the people by the most odious of all systems—a direct tax. To show that it furnishes to the consumer cheaper and better articles of use and consumption among them, I need only enumerate a few leading articles of necessity. Coarse cottons, when we had to rely on the foreign manufacturer, sold at from twenty to twenty-five cents. By the act of 1816, a duty of eight and three-fourths cents was imposed on the foreign article. This nearly excluded it, and made the business very profitable to our own citizens. The consequence was, as it always will be in this country of free and equal laws, that there was a great rush of capital into this business. The law held out equal advantages to every citizen in the United States, whether he lived in Georgia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, or Massachusetts. And I have been told by an honorable member of this House from North Carolina, that he knew of one establishment in that State, employing about one hundred thousand dollars of capital, that yielded its proprietor a profit of about twenty per cent. ; and the honorable gentleman from Georgia, [Mr. Clayton, I think, told us at the last session, in a speech which he delivered upon this floor, that he owned an establishment which yielded him a profit of fifty per cent. I am very much pleased at these profits of my southern neighbors, and hope more of them will embark in the business. In Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, the competition has been so great, that the profits to the manufacturer have been very much decreased; and the price to the consumer throughout the United States has been reduced by this home competition from twenty to twenty-five, down to
from six to seven cents per yard; and this is the effect, in my opinion, which adequate protection will have upon every branch of our home manufactures. Lead formerly sold, in the Atlantic cities, at six and eight cents per pound; but since a duty of three cents Per pound has been imposed on the foreign article, we now get it in Missouri at three and a half cents. Window glass formerly sold from ten to fourteen dollars per ton. A duty of three and a half dollars per one hundred feet on foreign window glass has brought the price down to the consumer to four and four and a half dollars per ton, instead of ten and fourteen. Every cottager now, if he choose, may enjoy the light of Heaven, without ad. mitting the bleak wind. Cut nails were formerly worth from ten to twelve cents per pound. By a duty of five cents on foreign nails, we get much better nails now at six cents per pound. Copperas before the late war was very fluctuating in price, but most generally sold at three cents per pound. During the war it sold from seventeen to twenty cents. After the war we imposed a duty of two cents per pound on foreign copperas, and it now sells at two and a half cents per pound. And if we are wise, we never again shall be subject to the fluctuations of the foreign article, nor shall we be subject to the enormous price which we were compelled to pay during the late war. When we imported our alum, we generally had to pay about seven and a half dollars per cwt. During the war the price rose to eighteen cents per pound. The price at present is three and three-fourths cents per pound. Epsom salts were manufactured to a very limited extent, if at all, in this country, prior to 1824. While we relied upon the foreign manufacture, we had to pay from ten to twelve cents per pound. Under the act of 1824, a duty of four cents per pound was imposed on the fo. reign article. Under this protection, the manufacture of this medicine, of such universal use among all classes, and a timely dose of which has saved many a heavy doc. tor’s bill, has sprung to very great perfection in our own country. At the time the duty of four cents was imposed by the act of 1824, the price, as I before stated, was from ten to twelve cents per pound. In 1826, it fell to seven and a half cents; and in 1831, a much superior quality could be bought at three and a half cents per pound. If time would permit, this comparative view might be extended to almost every branch of this system which has brought our country to such an enviable height of prosperity. But when these stubborn facts stare gentlemen in the face—when they are compelled to admit that the nation at large, and that every particular section of it is enjoy. ing the highest state of prosperity, they then turn upon us, and say there is too much money in the treasury; and that, in order to exhaust and empty the treasury, this system must be pulled down. Sir, if other gentlemen thought on the subject as I do, we could soon eumploy the treasury surplus when there shall be one, much to the advantage of the people, and to the improvement of the country. I am now and always have been opposed to keeping much money in the treasury; but I would not tear down this system which has made us so prosperous and happy, and throw ourselves at the foot of British power and cupidity. No, sir, I would pursue a very dif. ferent plan of emptying the treasury. I would build roads and canals. I would clear all our navigable watercourses of obstructions, so that the farmer might get to market with his produce. In short, I would carry on a judicious system of internal improvement. I would build up a system of education that should carry light and knowledge to every cottage in the remotest corners of
the republic. Thus, sir, would this system make us independent of all the world; and, at the same time that it put money into circulation in the interior, it would greatly improve the physical and moral condition of the whole . country. But, sir, there is no surplus yet in the treasury; and I think my honorable friend [Mr. ING Ensoll.] from the Committee of Ways and Means has shown, not only that there is not now a surplus, but that there will not be a surplus even as remotely as 1835. Sir, what are the facts on this subject? Why, the Secretary of the Treasury, in his annual report, tells us that, on the first of January there was a surplus of one million six hundred thousand dollars. Now, my friend, [Mr. ING Ensoll,) who belongs to the financial committee of this. House, and whose peculiar province it is to examine into the state of our treasury accounts, (and, without intending to pay him a compliment, I understand, from all sides, that he is completely master of this subject,) what does he tell us about this surplus of one million six hundred thousand dollars now in the treasury? Why, sir, he says that there are one million six hundred thousand dollars in the treasury; but he tells us that one million four hundred thousand dollars of this surplus is composed, to speak in the financial language of the day, of “unavailable funds.” Or, in plain English, sir, this sum of one million four hundred thousand dollars is composed of notes upon broken banks, which nobody will have, and which are likely to be funds in the treasury for some time to come. These are some of the blessed fruits of using the local State banks as places of deposite for the public funds. And from the seed which seems to be sowing, since the edict has gone forth that the United States Bank must go down, we have a goodly prospect of reaping a very bountiful crop of these depreciated, these rotten, these broken bank notes. Banks in every direction, anticipating the destruction of the United States Bank, are springing into existence, like mushrooms, between the setting and the rising of the Sun. In New York, on the 2d and 3d day of the present Legislature, there were petitions for thirty-four new banks in that State. In Pennsylvania, eleven have been petitioned for from the country, beside those in the cities. In Maryland, the Governor recommends a State bank founded on State funds. In Alabama, one has been already incorporated with a capital of two millions. In my own State, one has been incorporated with a capital of three millions. The Governor of Kentucky recommended one of enormous capital. In Ohio, I believe one has been incorporated with a capital of seven millions of dollars. In Louisiana, a bank has been incorporated, with eight branches, and very large capital; the amount not exactly recollected. In North Carolina, a bank has been incorporated, with a capital of two millions of dollars, with branches at discretion; and thus, and thus we proceed, cramming every hole and corner of the country with this stagnant paper of local banks, which is not able to travel a Sabbath day's journey without being depreciated fifteen and twenty per cent. We are in a very fair way to have a new and ample addition of shin plasters, as they were called by the old farmers when I was a boy. Yes, sir! Fayetteville, Virginia Saline, Owl Creek. • These notes, once sent out, they must fall somewhere, and nine times out of ten they will fall upon the laboring, the innocent, unsophisticated part of the community. But, sir, I must return to the question of a surplus in the treasury; I hope the committee will excuse this digression.