at the bottom, and six inches of broken stone above, is considerably cheaper in the end.

"Is it dearer at first? It is not much dearer at first if the bottom is five inches thick, we save the breaking of that, and the difference in the breaking of that will be almost, if not quite, equal to the hand-laying of pavement.

Yes;

"Then it is about the same expense?we get pavement laid at a halfpenny the square yard.

"And you use any kind of stone?—Yes.

Any shaped stone, so that it is not too large?— Yes; the best form we can get.

"Do you ever find these paving-stones rise up to the surface of the road?-Never, if they are properly laid down.

"Are you prepared to state that the expense of laying down this paved road by hand, and the double expense of the materials, is not much more than the ordinary mode of laying down nine inches of broken stone upon the surface of the road as commonly prepared?-There is not a double expense of materials; nine inches of broken stone is not sufficient to form a new road. The materials for the bottom are six inches deep, but that six inches in depth does not require so much breaking as six inches of broken stone would; then upon that I put six inches of surface in ordinary cases, and in extreme cases from nine to ten inches; that makes twelve inches of stone in ordinary cases; six broken and six not broken, instead of nine

inches of broken stone; and what we save in breaking we do not lose in materials; and the expense of hand-laying is very trifling."

Extract from the Examination of Mr. Thomas Penson, surveyor of the Montgomery district of roads, who has 350 miles of turnpike roads under his immediate management.

"Will you be kind enough to describe accurately your different modes of forming these roads. As you have 130 miles now in progress, and as it depends on locality, you of course adopt various modes of forming these roads in various parts; will you describe them shortly?-Where the material is of that description that is suitable for pavement, and can be obtained close upon the spot, I lay down a close pavement of stone, with the square sides down, and fill up the interstices upon the upper surface with the chippings of broken stone, so as to form a foundation of seven inches thick in the middle, by four or five inches thick on the sides, for the whole width between the fences. The centre of the roadway, so far as is sufficiently wide for the traffic, is coated with stone, broken so as to press on its largest dimension through a ring of two inches and a half in diameter for seven inches thick, and the space between this metalling and the fences or paths coated with stone of the same description, but not so well prepared. In places where no material of a fit description for a

pavement can be obtained conveniently, after having formed a substratum, that is, brought the surface to a proper state and proper convexity, I cover it with broken stones of a uniform size, to the depth of twelve inches; but not in one larger. I do not put the whole body of stone at once in either case.

"From your experience, having practised both, which mode of making a road do you consider the best, the pavement which you spoke of or the broken stone?—I consider, with reference to future repairs, to the solidity of the road, and to its drainage, that a pavement laid as a foundation is an advantageous mode, and ultimately will produce a saving in repairs, where materials can be had suitable to the purpose.

"Will you explain what you mean by a pavement?-A foundation of stone is laid with its square side downwards, which I consider a very material part of the practical arrangement of that system.

"Do you not find a disposition in the large stones which are placed at the bottom to shake up to the top? It depends in a great measure how they are placed. I have seen a pavement extremely badly laid, and a great deal of pavement I have seen prejudiced by carts going over it for the purposes of carrying materials to the road before any portion of the metalling was put on, by which the formation and advantages of the pavement are completely destroyed; and unless the contractor is very carefully watched he will do that. He will

not carry his materials along the lands, or any other route, but he will travel over the road; and, as is invariably the case, he will not metal it as he goes on, but carry his metal over the road upon which he makes this wheel-track, and thereby destroys the formation of the pavement.

66

But, without the pavement coming up by the elasticity of the road, do you not see the large stones generally come up?-If the broken material is laid on, and stones of a larger size are laid at the bottom as a portion of the metalling, these large stones will invariably work up.

"Has not the wearing of the smaller materials which coat the road something to do with the larger materials working to the surface?-If the pavement is properly laid, and the interstices perfectly well filled, and a sufficient body of materials laid on that, and of uniform size so as to prevent the lower body from being disturbed, it cannot

move.

"What advantage do you find in a pavement over the entire substance being made of broken stone? I think it is a better drain; and, where the material is suitable to the purpose, it is done at a less expense.

Then we may comprise the result of your evidence upon the subject of "laid roads," and "broken stone roads," in your reply to this question, where the locality admits of one being cheaper made than the other, then you give the preference to that particular one, but where you have the opportunity of making both you prefer a laid road?

-I do. Over a considerable portion of the road on which I have been employed there are localities where I could not obtain that description of materials which I could advise for a "laid road:" as I before stated, where that could be done, a smaller body of broken stones will be sufficient, and it may happen that the materials for a "laid road" may sometimes be obtained at a greater expense than will answer the purpose.

"Now allow me to ask you, with reference to the cost of these two different species of road; you have stated that you make the roads according to the locality, therefore it is of course according to the materials which are found most convenient; what do you consider the expense of a pitched foundation, with broken stone on the top, per mile, as compared with a broken stone road?-The extra expense of making a road thirty feet wide entirely of broken stone above the expense of making a road of the same width with a "laid foundation," where the materials are of an equally durable quality and are equally convenient to the line, would in my opinion amount to 721. per mile. There are situations where the difference in expense would be greater than this calculation, and there are localities where the materials are of that description, that a road, formed entirely of broken stone, would be less expensive than a road formed upon a "laid foundation."*

* The following are extracts from Mr. Telford's first report on the Holyhead Road, May 1824, and from his sixth report, May 23, 1829: