ROUTE BILL. SECOND READING. prisoner; it would certainly be a very sad | PACIFIC RAILWAY CHANGE OF result. That is one of these cases in which, as I said before, it is hard to know how to act. Looking at the matter in the light of such cases as that mentioned by the hon. gentleman from St. John (Mr. Dever), and another case, which also happened in New Brunswick, the proposed measure appears to me to be an improvement upon the present operation of the law in such instances. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill, as amended, was read the third time and passed. ONTARIO PACIFIC RAILWAY SECOND READING. HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL moved the second reading of Bill (144), “An Act to authorize the construction on certain conditions, of the Canadian Pacific Railway through some Pass other then the Yellow Head Pass." He said: The House will no doubt remember in the Canadian Pacific Railway Co.'s Bill certain points are mentioned which are fixed in that Bill and which it is out of the power of the Company to change in any way. One of these is the Yellow Head Pass that the road is to run from Red River through the Yellow Head Pass. HON. MR. ALLAN moved the second Since the road has been placed in the reading of Bill (61), "An Act to Incorpor- hands of the Canadian Pacific Company ate the Ontario Pacific Railway Company." they have been led to believe that there He said: I really do not know anything was a possibility of discovering a pass about this Bill. I took charge of it as a south of that. If it turns out to be a feasmere matter of form, but I think there are ible pass for the purpose of the railway, it some gentlemen from Montreal present, would shorten the line very much-some and as I see there are Montreal names on 70 or 80 miles. It is not yet clear whether the Bill, perhaps my hon. friend Mr. that pass is a practicable one or not: if it Ogilvie will explain it. should prove to be so it will, I understand, be a more expensive one for the Company than by the Yellow Head Pass, but its effect in shortening the line would be very great and would justify the expense which will be necessary, both as regards the affairs of the Company and the interests of the public in the road. This Bill is to enable the Company, with the consent of the Governor-General in Council, to change the pass and to get over the Rocky Mountains by some way south of the Yellow Head Pass, if they can do so, and if that new pass shall meet with the approbation of the Governor-General in Council. I move that the Bill be read the second time. HON. MR. OGILVIE-I shall be very glad to move the second reading of this Bill though I was not asked to do so; and if necessary I will explain its provisions. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read the second time. GREAT EASTERN RAILWAY SECOND READING. HON. MR. BELLEROSE moved the second reading of Bill (89), "An Act to Incorporate "The Great Eastern Railway Company." He said: There is, I suppose, no necessity to explain this Bill at any length. It is an ordinary act of incorpor ation for a company to build a railway from Point Levis, opposite Quebec, to Dundee, in the County of Huntington. It will unite the railways south and west of Lake Ontario, and by this the House will see the importance of the Bill. It will be discussed before the Committee on Railways, and therefore it is only necessary that I should move the second reading. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read the second time. HON. MR. SUTHERLAND-I would beg to ask the Hon. Minister of Justice if the word Selkirk. HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-My hon friend mentioned that to me. That can be considered in the Committee. I am not yet satisfied that the amendment is necessary, but if it is I shall be very willing to assent to it. HON. MR. CHAPAIS-So they should. HON. MR. POWER-I think the ex- months ago, that it was doubtful whether planations made by the Hon. Minister of the Company had made a good bargain, Justice are rather brief. This change is at present no one pretends that the Coma very important one, and it seems to me pany have not made a most excellent one; that the explanations should be somewhat every one now admits that the Canadian more elaborate. In the first place, while Pacific Railway Company stand to make it is perfectly true that the proposed route a very large sum of money out of their by the Kicking Horse Pass is some 79 contract. miles shorter than the line through Yellow Head Pass, the gradients are very much more severe, and that will be an injury to the road. But on this point the HON. MR. POWER-I have no obMinister has not touched. I think that is jection to that; but I think, when a comone of the most serious objections to the pany come to Parliament with a propopassage of the Bill. It seems to me, sition to shorten their line 79 miles, and though I have not examined the Bill very so diminish in a very considerable degree closely, that the matter is left to a certain the cost of constructing the road, that the extent-one cannot tell to what extent- country should reap, to a certain extent, within the discretion of the Governor the benefit of this diminution. It seems General in Council. The Bill says "the to me that the Bill should contain some "Company may, subject to the approval provision for the reduction of the amount "of the Governor General in Council;" to be paid, either in land or money, to the now I am afraid that the Governor Gen- company in consideration of the very coneral in Council is too apt to approve, siderable reduction in the length of the without careful investigation, what is pro- road. posed by the Company. For instance, the Government took a leap in the dark HON. MR. MACDONALD--I think some weeks ago, by approving of the loca- the company in charge of this road can be tion of the Canadian Pacific Railway very safely left to fix their own gradients. route north of Lake Nipissing, and They would not take a line with very North of Lake Huron; which is a com- considerable gradients and leave an easy plete departure from the route which had line untouched. I am assured by an enbeen contemplated when the Pacific Rail-gineer of good standing that the gain to way Act was passed. The Government the company by shortening the line 79 approved of this change of location with- miles will far more than compensate for out its having been made clear to them any difficulty in the gradients and that it that the Company would be able to find is more advantageous to have a short road a satisfactory route north of Lake Superior from the Sault Ste. Marie line. Now I think that with such an experience before the House we should require that in this Bill there should be some provision that before the consent of the Governor General in Council is given to the change which is contemplated in the measure, it should be made very clear that the gradients in connection with this new pass are not of such HON. MR. KAULBACH—I think it a character as to interfere seriously with is guarded well by being subject to the the traffic. There is another thing that Governor-General-in-Council, whose apsuggests itself naturally to any one who proval must be given to the whole matter. reads the Bill. The Canadian Pacific Railway Company have been voted by than to have gradients a few feet higher or more difficult. I think this Bill is surrounded by very great precautions to prevent the company going within 100 miles of the boundary and so to prevent any tapping of our trade. As I said before, I think the company can be safely trusted to select the gradients. HON. MR. OGILVIE-I think there Parliament large sums of money and is very little difference indeed in the gralarge quantities of very valuable dients. I have had a good deal to do land; since this was done, something with engineers,-talking with them upon more than a year ago, the value this very subject-and my information is of these lands has been considerably in- that the difference in the grades will be creased. Although it was said 12 or 15 slight. Then so far as the reduction of the expense to the Company, in conse- having heavy freight trains-doing in quence of lessening the distance, is con- fact all the business that the road cerned, I believe the cost of the work will we are now discussing will be rebe much greater than if the original plan quired to do. That was the pattern were carried out. They consider however which we were to follow and upon which that it will be worth a great deal more to the Canadian Pacific Railway was to be them to have a shorter road, and that the modeled and no change has been made saving in the future will more than in that respect. As regards taking away repay the additional outlay; consequently from the company some portion of their they are willing to spend more money on land or of their subsidy in money because it at present. I think the House may of the shortening of the road, I understand, rest perfectly assured from the way the and the hon. gentlemen who have just Company has taken hold of the work, spoken repeated it, that so far as opinion and are now pushing it forward, that they can now be formed, the road by the new are not building the road as if they were route, if it is adopted, will cost them going to hand it over to another corpor- more than they would expend if the ation. They have good hopes-in which original plan by the Yellow Head Pass I trust they will not be disappointed-was followed. I think there is no reason that the road will pay, and they are why there should be any interference in making a very much better road-so the that respect, as the country will have a engineers tell me who have been over it short route which will be of great advanas far as it is completed-than they had tage in the future. I hope the hon. agreed to make under their contract. So gentleman will not mind my saying so, we should feel perfectly safe in leaving but I do not think there is much in the this matter in the hands of the Company. objection he has taken. I am satisfied any change that is made in this way will be for the benefit of the whole country as well as for the Company itself. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read the second time. NIAGARA PENINSULA COMPANY'S BILL. THIRD READING. BRIDGE HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-The hon. gentleman from Halifax (Mr. Power) complains rather of my not having gone more into the details of this Bill. If I HON. MR. DICKEY moved concurhad thought that the House desired it I rence in the amendments made by the would have been ready to do so, but Committee on Railways, Telegraphs and everyone who hears me has probably read Harbors to Bill (67), "An Act to incorporthe details of the Bill, or heard them ate the Niagara Peninsula Bridge Comspoken of, with great care, in another pany." He said: The first amendment place, and it seems to me that it would to this Bill is to the third clause and is a be rather tedious to go over the same proviso "That nothing herein contained ground, or part of it in this House upon shall be construed to affect any rights herethe present occasion. The objections tofore acquired under any Act of the taken by my hon. friend do not seem to Legislature of the Province of Ontario me to be of very much moment or strength. respecting any Road or Carriage Way As regards gradients there is no proposi- along the Banks of the Niagara River." tion in the Bill to alter the grades in any That was rendered necessary by informaway. Therefore the original provisions tion given to the Committee that the which governed that question will be the legislature of the Province of Ontario had same whether the road is built by the authorised the making of this carriage Yellow Head Pass or by the one which is way. And as we did not wish in any way mentioned as a substitute for it. The to interfere with powers already granted, rule adopted in the original Bill with and as there was room for both a bridge reference to gradients was, that the road and railway, we modified it in that way. should be the same in that respect as the Another amendment was that to the Union Pacific Railway, which road at the 20th section, the section which authorized time was spoken of as doing a very the company to lease their property to any large business, and quite capable of Railway Company, or to amalgamate with them in or out of the Province; this is a power which we have studiously refused to grant to these bridge companies, and for that substituted an amendment, which we printed in the minutes, giving them power: "to enter into any agreement with any other Company for the use or partial use of or for the leasing or hiring of any rolling stock, loco motives, cars or moveable property, and generally to make any agreement with any other Company touching, running powers over the railway or bridge hereby authorized to be built, or over the railway or bridge of the other Company, or touching the use of the rolling stock or movable property of the other Company, or touching any service to be rendered by one Company to the other and the compensation therefor. Provided that any such agreement shall be first approved of and authorized by the shareholders of the Company hereby incorporated at an annual, general or special meeting of the same called for that purpose. To these amendments I apprehend there will be no objection. The other amendment by itself would have been of some importance, but after the discussion the other day it will not be necessary for me to enlarge upon it. It is an amendment to the sixth section of the Bill, the section which requires an act of the Congress of the United States to be passed consenting to the bridging of the St. Lawrence or the Niagara River. An amendment was passed by the Committee, after a discussion in this House to a similar bill-the Ottawa, Waddington and New York Railway and Bridge Companys Bill-and that amendment was substituted for the section. this Bill provision is made that it shall not go into operation until the consent of the proper authorities in the United States has been given. With regard to that I to move the substitution of the clause in the Bill with an amendment such as was made the other day to the Ottawa, Waddington and New York Railway and Bridge Companys Bill requiring the consent of the Congress or of the Executive of the United States. For the present I move that the amendments made in this Bill to the third and twentieth sections be concurred in. The motion was agreed to. In propose HON. MR. DICKEY-I now move the substitution of the sixth clause as it ori ginally stood: "The Company shall not commene the actual erection of the said bridge until an Act America has been passed consenting to or ap of the Congress of the United States of proving the bridging of the said river or until the Executive of the United States has con sented to and approved thereof; but the Company shall have the power in the meantime to acquire the lands, submit their plans to the Governor in Council, and do all other the matters and things anthorized by this Act, except the commencement of the actual construction or erection of the bridge, and the time for the completion of the work as fixed by this Act shall run from the date of the passing of the said Act of the said Congress, or the date of the signification of the assent or approval of the Executive of the United States of America." HON. MR. MACFARLANE-I believe that this would still unnecessarily hamper the Company. The amendment introduced in the Committee was as follows: "The consent or approval of the authority or authorities in the United States of America, having under the constitution of that country, the said river, shall have been obtained_for jurisdiction over the undertaking to bridge the purpose of so bridging the same: Provided, however, that the Company shall have the power in the meantime to acquire the Council, and do all other the matters and lands, submit their plans to the Governor in things authorized by the Act, except the commencement of the actual construction or erection of the bridge; and the time for the completion of the work as fixed by this Act shall run from the date of such consent or approval of the proper constitutional authority or authorities in the United States of America." That would give the parties quite as much trouble as they ought to have; still, from the information they gathered and from the information since conveyed to me, they were quite able to get the necessary authority from the State of New York, which has complete control of the matter. The proposed amendment is very different from that which was adopted in the Railway Committee. It was added, I know, to the Ottawa, Waddington and New York Railway and Bridge Company's Bill, but in that case the bridge is to be erected over the St. Lawrence, where vessels are passing up and down continually during the season of navigation. Although the word "draw" was unnecessarily inserted in this Bill, they are constructing this bridge at a place where there is no navigation. HON. MR. AIKINS-There is nothing of a committee is deprived of his rights to prevent vessels passing there. as a member of this House? HON. MR. MACFARLANE-My im HON. Mr. POWER—I do not say so: pression is that the amendment made in I say it is an unusual spectacle. This the Committee, which I have read, is case, as the hon. gentleman from Walample and ought to be satisfactory to the lace has pointed out, is somewhat House. It contains nothing inconsistent with the courtesy which is due to the people of the United States, and it would give our people the facilities which they require to enable them to complete the bridge. They could go on, it is true, under the proposed clause, but it would cause them a great deal of trouble and expense and protract the work unnecessarily. HON. MR. KAULBACH-I am very desirous that we should have uniformity of legislation on these matters. In the Committee this matter was thoroughly discussed, and I consider there is no difference between this Bill and the Ottawa, Waddington & New York Railway and Bridge Company's Bill. In each case the bridge crosses navigable water. This company contemplated that there might be navigation, because they made provision for a draw. I hope we will come to some determination on this subject, and have uniform legislation on this important matter, which affects international rights, and thr navigation of a river which is used in common by both countries. It is de different from the one that was before the House recently. In the latter case the proposition was to build a bridge across a river which is a great highway for commerce in this case it is to bridge a river where there is really no commerce. The United States authorities, as far as any one can gather, hold, that if a river is not one over which commerce passes, the Federal power has no necessary connec tion with it, and the authority of the State in this instance, as I understand it, is this: is quite sufficient. The position of affairs there are already, I think, two bridges spanning the Niagara River. sirable, in the interest of commerce between the two countries, that as many bridges as can conveniently be constructed should be built there. The more bridges there are, the less, I presume, will be the cost of carrying trade across the river. The bridges which are there now were constructed by companies whose charters contained no such provision as the chairman of the committee proposes to insert in this Bill. If it was not inserted in their charters it is not necessary that this Bill should contain it. It is throwing an obstacle in the HON. MR. POWER-The desire for should not have said anything about this way of the company unnecessarily. I uniformity is very commendable, but still only that the amendment made by the there are other things more desirable than Committee completely covers the ground uniformity. Justice or fair play is more taken both by the hon. gentleman who is important, and when we look at the exact Chairman of the Committee and by the position of things in this case there may Minister of Justice. What is the proviappear some reason for not accepting the sion? It is that the consent or approval amendment which has been moved by the of the authority or authorities in the hon. gentleman from Amherst. I may United States having under the constituremark, although I do not wish to be un- tion of that country jurisdiction over the derstood as speaking with any feeling undertaking to bridge the said river, shall about the matter, that it is a somewhat be obtained for the purpose of so bridging unusual spectacle to find the chairman of the same. Now, if an Act of Congress be a committee moving to amend an alter-necessary this clause requires that that ation which has been made in the Bill by Act shall be obtained; if the consent of a three-fourths majority of the committee. It seems to me that an amendment of that sort ought to be left to some other member of the Senate. HON. MR. KAULBACH-Does the the hon. gentleman say that the chairman the Executive of the United States be necessary, under this amendment made by the Committee that consent must be obtained and if, as a great many men in the State of New York, who ought to understand their own business fairly well, think it is necessary only to obtain the con |