system, and if the argument is good, that | am glad to hear that my hon. friend does we cannot expect applicants generally to not think it is so in all the Departments. have a knowledge of French-then it is It is not that there is any disposition on good also with regard to many other im- the part of the Government or the House, portant and useful subjects, and we might I am sure, that due attention should not consistently reject the whole Bill and say be given to the French language, or that "up to the present time those requirements members speaking that language should have not been used in the Civil Service, not have every facility afforded them to yet we have an efficient body of transact their business in their native men, and it is not necessary to im- tongue; but this is not the question beprove the Service." I think, however, fore us-it is whether we should exclude that to any one who would speak a young man from entering the service in that way, the Hon. Minister of Justice because he does not know the French would answer "We are trying every day language. It may happen that a young to improve our position." If it is the man who has passed the examination desire of the hon. gentleman not to make here prescribed, will afterwards study the bill too stringent, I would readily accept any amendment in that sense; but I think we should try to make some progress in that direction, and I repeat it is the right of every French citizen to go into the Departments and transact his business in his mother tongue. The fact, however, is that our country-men every day go into those offices and very often cannot find people to answer them in French. I look upon this as a sort of denial of our rights, and, having submitted the case, I hope the House will take it will exist at these examinations, and everyinto consideration.

French; but in the greater part of this country such language is unnecessary, and why should we impose it upon all applicants for admission to the service? Is it not more reasonable to depend upon the examination, which must be conducted, I imagine, upon a system of marks, where, no doubt, so many marks will be attached to the French language, and where every candidate will naturally try to obtain the marks which are given for that language. A general feeling of emulation

body will desire to possess that know

cordingly. There are few things more his career, and will try to acquire it aclikely to aid a young man in his future certain other accomplishments in the same service than a knowledge of French; and way might be instanced. I hope my hon. friend will not think it necessary to press his amendment, because I am sure there is no real reason why we should exclude a man, because he does not know French.

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-Iledge which is most likely to help him in quite agree that members speaking the French language, have a perfect right to expect that they shall be met and answered in that language when they made enquiries at the various Departments. I think, however, that my hon. friend is wrong in what he has said, for I know with reference to some Departments at all events, it is not the case that the correspondence is conducted entirely in English. I am aware that such is not the fact in the Post

HON. MR. TRUDEL-Perhaps we might meet the difficulty in this way: the Bill divides the officers of the service into two divisions -the inside and outside divisions. I can understand very well that, for instance, a public officer in some parts of the Province of Quebec might discharge his duty thoroughly, without knowing the English language, and I can equally fancy that a knowledge of French is unnecessary for other officers stationed in some parts of the Province of Ontario. I think, however, that those who are employed here, at the seat of Government, should be required to speak both lanHON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-I guages, and we might, perhaps, frame an

Office Department for instance, and my hon. friend beside me (Mr. Aikins) says it is not the case in the Department of Inland Revenue; in both of those Departments, letters which come written in French, are for the most part answered in the same language.

HON. MR. TRUDEL-I said that I had personal knowledge that such was the case in some departments; but in dealing with portions of the Civil Service, questions were asked in French which could not be answered in that language.

amendment in such a way as to insist upon the officers to be appointed to the Inside Division having knowledge of French, as well as of English. As I said before, I do not insist upon a very stringent rule, but I would like something to be done, in order to facilitate the relations of the French portion of our population, with the public offices.

for admissio to the various branches of the Army, except only in cases where the candiGerman, when he will only be required to date may have a knowledge of colloquial qualify in scholastic French."

True this is in the Army, but hon. gentlemen, if it is necessary there, might I not argue a fortiori, that in the Civil Ser

vice it is much more essential? Such at any rate is the view of the writer of this letter who goes on to say, and I draw hon. gentlemen's attention particularly to this

passage;

HON. MR BELLEROSE-I must say that I am always surprised, when this question is raised in the House, to see the feeling that it creates. That feeling "His Royal Highness the Field-Marshal is such among some hon. gentlemen that Commander-in-Chief and the Secretary of State for War, being thus of opinion that a they get blinded, in a measure, and we hear knowledge of French, even if it be not rethe statement made that there is no neces-quired from every English gentleman" (I will sity for the speaking of both languages. leave it to hon. gentleman to draw the infer Well, hon. gentlemen, I do not see that ence) "may fairly be demanded from every there is one spot in the Dominion where British officer, and that it is indispensable to officers who aspire to employment on the it is not necessary. I do not speak of staff. still recognise the fact that the acquisi Quebec where the majority are French, tion of this language in early youth is but I will go to Ontario and even further absolutely necessary for the prosecution of it away, to the Province of New Brunswick, in later years." where we find to one-fifth to one-sixth of

"In the meantime it has been resolved to give an additional value to French in all competitive examinations in the Army in which that language forms a part of the course of study, and at the same time it is intended to request the Civil Service Commis Sioners gradually to raise the standard in that language at the preliminary examinations."

the population are French yet are we told that a knowledge of that language among the officials of this Dominion is not necessary. In Quebec there is a minority of one sixth but we respect that minority, and in the past they have never had occasion to complain of the acts of Now, gentlemen, that is in Englandthe majority towards them. It is only in the last country in the world which I this Dominion that the conditions are would have thought would have come to changed; here our majority becomes a those conclusions. But let me go to the minority, and we are not treated as we other side of the line, to the United treat others. I would ask hon. gentlemen States, and we find Mr. Siddons writing to look abroad and note how this subject to the Washington Republican in these of the French language is treated. In words: "I congratulate you on the Russia it is learned by all among the upper article showing the importance and neclasses, and in Italy and Germany it is cessity of every officer of the United taught in the schools, But I will go States Government knowing the French Island called language." A different argument, howGreat Britain, and what do I find? I ever, has been put forth in this House.

elsewhere, to that powerful

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-Not

read in that great newspaper, the Times,
under date of July 4th, 1881, a letter from
the Earl of Morley to the Rev. G. C. Bell, by me.
M.A., in which the following passage

occurs:

HON. MR. BELLEROSE-I do not say it has beer. done by the hon. Minister "The military authorities having had of Justice; that hon. gentleman does not under their consideration the question of demanding and encouraging proficiency in deny that it is a good thing, but there is a the French language among the officers of the great difference between saying a thing is Army have come to the conclusion that, from good, and insisting that it is not indispenthe date to be hereafter fixed, and of which sible. I say that it is not only reasonable and fair and ample warning will be given to all acceptable, but I say more, that it is a

whom this measure may concern, a knowledge

of French, both scholastic and colloquial, necessity; for if it is a necessity in England shall be made obligatory on all candidates as the Times states, where is the hon.

gentleman who will say it is not a neces- | Departments, letters received, which were sity in Canada? Then Mr. Siddons con- written in French, were answered in that tinues: "No one ought to deny that language. Well, I do not deny that such French is the diplomatic language, that it is the case; I accept the statement is the language of every man who is well of the hon. Minister that it is so; educated. There is not in the whole of but I would remind that hon. genthe North, and particularly in the East, a tleman of the fact that while to-day this single family where the French is not may be true, it may be all changed totaught and spoken." Now, this is the morrow by other Ministers who may be case in the United States, and if it is so placed in charge of those Departments. there, why is not such knowledge neces- If, however, it were made a matter of legsary in Canada, where one-half of the islation it would be otherwise, and these population is of French origin. I might also conditions would be imposed upon the quote the names of Mr. Edward Everett, a Ministers in all Departments. It may be well known literary man in the United possible, too, that I have knowledge of States; Mr. Sumner, a prominent speaker matters which have not come within the there, and Mr. Longfellow, the poet of experience of the hon. Minister of Justice, world-wide fame; they all have made it and I may state for his information that I their boast that they knew and spoke French. have known a letter to be returned from Then again, in July, 1881, there appeared one of the Departments, (by a man who in a journal of the city of Montreal a letter had come from England, but who, I supfrom a gentleman named Mackintosh. pose forgot his knowledge of French He writes: "I regret to see your great while crossing the Atlantic) with a request French Canadian leaders seeming to be that it might be translated into English. ashamed of their mother tongue; but let I was consulted in the matter and said, Canadians not believe that the English "send it back, and if you do not receive people will consider them the more for an answer, never mind, we will that. On the contrary, they would feel face the position." So it was sent more respect for them if Canadians would back again, and the second time it openly affirm their nationality, if they was kept. That is the way we would freely acknowledge their truthful- are treated, hon. gentlemen, but if we had ness to their flag, their tongue and their such laws as that for which we now ask, institutions. Let Canadians work so that it would be quite different. The minority the officers of their country shall learn in the Province of Quebec never have to both languages." I have read these cita- complain that their language is ignored, tions, hon. gentlemen, to show that, on because there, not a step is taken unless it the other side of the Atlantic and on this, is published in both languages; and so where there are no prejudices, the French the minority always work harmoniously language is taught. Here, however, three- with us, in the secure belief that they are fourths of the time, we are met with the well treated. Indeed we feel a certain argument, "Oh, let French and English pride in showing that though we have the alone and be Canadians!" I say, hon. gen-power to crush down the weaker party, we tleman, let the majority in this country cease scorn to exercise it; we have a deeply to discriminate against the French speak rooted idea that might is not necessarily ing portion of the people, and their own right. I would ask to remind hon. language will no longer be considered any gentlemen in this connection of what other than a purely Canadian matter. Let took place a few months ago, on the other every gentleman look at this question in a side of the line. A great international broad light; let it be shown that we are Congress met in the City of Washington, one people; let it be as with us in Quebec, the Capital of the United States, and where we have no prejudices against the there were present delegates from every minority. In that province we have been part of the world. It was held to discuss taught by our forefathers to be liberal to the question of health legislation, and I those in the minority; we have not for- would ask, in what language was the gotten our education in this particular, and business of that Congress conducted? I the minority in our province are always am proud to say that the language comshown great consideration. The hon. mon in a measure to all the different Minister of Justice said that in some nations there represented, was the French,

HON. MR. ALLAN-I would like to put the hon. gentleman right in one respect. From the tenor of his remarks I would infer that he was under the impression that a knowledge of the French language was not considered a necessary part of a gentleman's education in Ontario, as he says it is in England and in the United States. Now, I venture to say that there is not a public school of any standing in Ontario where French is not made one of the branches of study for which prizes are given, and where it is not considered as essential that a pupil should be as well educated in French as in any other respect.

and the discussions were conducted, of knowledge of the French language sufentirely, and I may add with great fluency, ficent at least for ordinary purposes. in that tongue; thus showing how the There seems to be a disinclination on the study of it is cultivated among all civilized part of the English to learn the French nations. Here in Canada, even by con- language; some of them do acquire it, stitutional law, the French is recognized because they find that it is an advantage as the official language, yet we cannot in business and enables them to make have it except when the majority pleases. money, bur they are few in numbers. It I maintain it is our right only which we now is only conceding a right to the French ask, and we should not always be forced to speaking portion of the population that submit to the wish of the majority in this this amendment should be unanimously matter; but we should have such legisla- adopted. tion as will give us the right to rise and complain when justice is not done. As the hon. gentleman from DeSalaberry stated, none of us ever dreamed of asking that the officials should be thorough finished scholars; we only ask that a candidate for promotion or appointment in the Civil Service should know enough of the language to be able to answer in French any ordinary question which might be put to him. That would be sufficient to satisfy us, and I would here express my conviction that if the officials in the Civil Service, and future applicants for those positions, knew that a knowledge of French was expected of them, they would make a point of mastering the language. The greater part of the present staff in the various Departments know enough of French to answer a question on an ordinary subject, but they will not do it, because there exists among them the same HON. MR. ALLAN-The instances feeling which is noticeable in other parts which my hon. friend has quoted with of the Dominion. This is to be greatly respect to examinations for the Civil regretted, and certainly is a very different Service and the Army in England can feeling from that which actuates the hardly be said to be analagous to the exaFrench-speaking part of our people. Look minations proposed in this Bill for candiat the discussions in both branches of our tes for the Civil Service of Canada. I legislature, and you will find the French presume one reason why members of the members taking their part, and in the face Civil Service in England should possess of all difficulties addressing both Houses a knowledge of French is, that if they go in a language which is not their own. It into the diplomatic corps they would may be that it is not always pleasant to not be qualified for service abroad without the English-speaking members to listen to it. In the same way with regard to eduthe necessarily imperfect utterances of the cation for the army. French is not conFrench representatives; but if they suffer sidered necessary for the discharge of the in that way, we would say to these gentle- duties of an officer in England, but should men, "If it is painful to you, let us suffer the fortunes of war call him abroad, then in like manner-speak French, if neces- the advantage of a French education comes sary, we will suffer, not with two in. ears, but with four ears, if possible, to understand what you mean." We HON. MR. BELLEROSE-I ask the do not want a revolution; all we want is that this Bill shall provide that applicants for examination as candidates for the Civil Service shall have a certain amount

HON. MR. BELLEROSE-If so there can be no objection to the amendment.

hon. gentleman, then, if the interests of one-fourth the population of this Dominion, who speak the French language, are to be overlooked in this respect?

Board of Examiners. I would go further and give additional marks for other languages, German, for instance, because we have a large number of German citizens settled in western Ontario, and we are likely to have a very large immigration of Germans as well as other nationalities into the Northwest. For that reason I would like to see young men entering the Civil Service have one or two languages besides our own.

HON. MR. ALLAN-Not at all; I am who has that qualification in addition to pointing out the reason why so much the other qualifications called for by the stress is laid upon a knowledge of French being necessary in the army and Civil Service in England; and in neither case is it analagous to the question here. I think that the hon. gentleman is hardly fair in his reference to the English speaking members; certainly, as long as I have had the honor of having a seat in this House, every courtesy has been extended by them to their fellow members who speak the French language. At this present moment we have the advantage of having a Speaker in the chair who can and does put the motions to the House in both languages. The leader of the Government can address the House in French if he pleases. and sometimes does so, and all the resolutions and reports are that. read at the table in French as well as in English. I think the hon. gentleman himself (though I am sure he does it out of courtesy and consideration for those who do not require to have the resolutions read in French) is one of the first to cry "dispense!"

HON. MR. BELLEROSE-I hope that the hon. gentleman is not using that as an argument to show that the reading in French is not necessary; if he does he will only force me to insist on a right that is waived only out of courtesy to the House!

HON. MR. BELLEROSE-The hon. gentleman must be aware that there are only two official languages in this country.

HON. MR. ALLAN-I am aware of

HON. MR. BELLEROSE-Then it shows that the German language is not a necessity to carry on the public business.

HON. MR. ALLAN-It shows that my hon. friend is not willing to extend the same courtesy to his German fellow citizens that he claims should be extended to his own nationality.

HON. MR. BELLEROSE-The difference is that for us it is a right; with them it is a matter of courtesy.

HON. MR. ALLAN-It may be very desirable in the future to make a knowledge of German one of the requirements of a candidate for the Civil Service. I hope that in a majority of cases those who come up for examination for the Civil Service will have a fair knowledge of French, but 1 do not think we should insert a clause in the Bill that would prevent anyone from entering the Civil Service who has not had a French education.

HON. MR. ALLAN-I hope the hon. gentleman understands me when I say that there has never been any desire on the part of the English speaking members of this House to interfere with the rights of French members to have their language recognized. With regard to examinations for the Civil Service, I understood the hon. Minister of Justice to say that in the awarding of marks they will be given for a knowledge of French just as they will be given for a knowledge of any other subject HON. MR. KAULBACH-Reference on which a candidate may be examined. has been made to the German language, What I object to is that it should be made it is my mother tongue; it is the language a rigid rule that no one shall be admitted of a large portion of the population of into the service at all unless he has a my county, and I think that a knowledge knowledge of French-which is practically of German should also be one of the the effect of the amendment proposed by qualifications of a candidate for the Civil my hon. friend from DeSalaberry. Every Service. There is more German spoken inducement should be held out to candi- in the United States than French, and dates to acquire the French language by really it is the language of the educated giving a larger number of marks to anyone in every country in the world. If this