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If under such circumstances a judge should be removed it was proposed to enable the Government to give him a pension, and this clause met a class of cases of which there were several instances. A judge is unable to discharge the duties of his office from old age, as every one but himself thinks, but he refuses to retire. If he is removed for incapacity or resigns through old age, then he is granted a pension.

HON. MR. POWER suggested that

words should be added to meet the case

of a judge who might be injured, for instance by a railway accident, and thus incapacitated from discharging the duties of

his office.

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said in that case the judge would resign and be entitled to a pension. This was to provide for cases in which judges were forced

out.

The clause was adopted.

The tenth and eleventh clauses of the Bill were expunged.

HON. MR. VIDAL, from the committee, reported that they had made some progress with the Bill and asked leave to sit again.

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HON. SIR ALEX CAMPBELL said that the necessity for an amendment to this clause had arisen from the fact that in Quebec the judge of the Sessions of

SEAMEN'S ACT 1873 AMENDMENT of the Peace was also Police Magistrate

BILL

THIRD READING.

The House went into Committee of the whole on Bill (G), "An Act further to amend the Seamen's Act, 1873."

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said that this Bill was for the purpose of giving the magistrate a larger discretion than he has now. As the law now stands if a man goes on board a ship armed, for any of the purposes mentioned, the punishment must be five years in the penitentiary. That was sometimes more punishment than the circumstances rendered just, and this Bill was drawn for the purpose of giving the magistrate greater discretion. Unluckily it was so printed that it did not carry out the object intended, in consequence of the omission of the words "than two or." The words should have been printed "he shall for every such

and Stipendiary magistrate, so that when the judge of the Sessions was absent all the authorities mentioned in the Bill to determine in a summary way offences punishable under the Act were absent; except the judge of the County Court, and there was none there. It was thought, therefore, that this amendment was necessary. He suggested an amendment to the effect that in the Province of Quebec a judge of the Superior Court shall have the like authority and jurisdiction as that conferred by the terms of the Act of 1873, and by this Act upon the judge of the Sessions of the Peace.

The amendment was agreed to.

HON. MR. DICKEY called the attention of the hon. the Minister of Justice to the clause which imposed penalties, and asked him to consider seriously whether these penalties were not so much in excess of the offences that they were likely to

have a contrary effect to that intended. I thought the Committee might very safely He thought that a person entering a vessel trust that no magistrate would enforce without the authority or concurrence of this Act against a person who was innothe master and being unarmed should not cently on board, as the Bill was not inbe liable to such punishment as imprison- tended to affect such cases. ment for not less than six months. He considered it entirely too harsh, and inadequate to the offence itself. The next penalty was that of a party going on board armed, but without any intention of using the weapon which might be upon his person, and which would not be dangerous until used; in that case he should not be liable to be put in penitentiary for three years. He considered it a great mistake to make the punishments so excessive that it would be very difficult to convict. He mentioned it that it might be considered before the third reading.

HON. MR. DICKEY said the hon. gentleman had referred to the experience of Montreal and Quebec. If this Act were to be confined in its operations to those ports he would be inclined to allow the gentlemen who were interested there to deal with the Bill; but it was a general act.

His hon. friend had also said that when a vessel was discharging, stevedores and others might go on board and interfere with the sailors doing their work. That was one class of cases in regard to which the Bill was more extensive in its operations, because it extended to a person going on board any ship previous to her actual arrival in the dock or getting to her place of discharge. For instance, a vessel coming up the river might be boarded by a person who would not have the consent of the master, and would go on board innocently, yet, under the terms of this Bill, he was brought under heavy penalities-very severe penalities, and might be taken to jail at once. He did not think that this was desirable, and felt that the clause should be amended in some way, so that persons who go on board a ship unarmed and without any evil motive should not, because they have not the permission of the master, be subjected to heavy penalities, or brought before a justice of the peace and committed to prison for a long term. It did not seem to him desirable to put these impediments in the way of navigation, and it was not in the interests of the ports, it appeared to him, that penalties so excessive as really to defeat the object if the Bill should be imposed.

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said he had taken the advice of persons connected with the trade before bringing the Bill to the House. Of course, if a person went on board of a ship innocently and and without any bad motive it would seem to be very harsh; but the Act was not intended for such cases and would not be applied to them. But if one took the case of a ship arriving at Montreal, there were often a great many people there, stevedores and longshoremen, and these men, two or more, would go on board the ship, and do no other harm than prevent the seamen from working; they might perhaps stop the discharge of the cargo, and he thought such an offence should be punished very severely, even if they go on board unarmed. That, however, was a question for the Committee, whether the punishment was great or not. He was not himself an advocate of very severe punishment but those hon. gentlemen who lived in seaport towns, he fancied, knew the difficulties which sometimes occurred with reference to ships when discharging their cargoes and the inter- HON. MR. MILLER suggested that it ference which took place from longshore- might be amended in this way: to read men and others who might be on strike." without the permission and against the The whole business of the harbor of wish." Montreal, or at any rate very much of it, had been arrested for twenty or thirty days during last summer and the summer before, in a manner that was most injurious to the commerce of the country, and if such powers as these should not exist it would be very difficult to prevent those longshoremen from going on board. He

SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL thought that was already in the Bill.

Hon. MR. HOWLAN said that this Act was merely carrying out the rule which had prevailed with regard to entering a man's house. One has no right to enter

a man's door without his permission, and | for such a law.

He would have no objec

if he does so he must take the conse- tion to the measure, and would not conquences in the same way a man who sider it at all too stringent if it were conboards a vessel when sailing up a river, fined to the ports of Montreal and Quebec, without the consent of the master, should and perhaps it might extend east to St. take the consequences. The difficulty to John and Halifax, but not generally to be met was very easily understood by any ports in the Maritime Provinces. It was one conversant with the matter. At cer- a very common thing there, when a vessel tain seasons of the year a great many was coming into port, for friends to go on seamen are required and incoming ves- board, and for other parties to board her sels are boarded by people, who are known as she is coming into her place for disas "crimps," with a view of enticing the charging; under this law it would be sailors to desert or of ascertaining how optional with the officers of the ship to much they are getting a month, and have every one of these people, who went acting as pilots or guides to lead those on board thus innocently, brought up and sailors to other vessels; and stringent subjected to severe punishment. He did rules were necessary to prevent this. In not think a law should be placed upon the the first place no master or mate of a statute books that would leave such a ship would bring a man before a magistrate power for abuse in the hands of any man, unless he had been guilty of some im- and therefore he was of opinion that the proper act on board his ship, and in the phraseology of the Act should be changed, next place without such a law as this a or that it should be limited to those ports ship might be crowded from end to end where it is considered indispensable to with persons who had no right there. A have such a law. If the clause were vessel discharging her cargo had all the slightly altered as suggested, and made to hatches off and was quite open; it was read "without the permission and against therefore necessary to have some such law" the wish of the officer in charge," he did as this in force. The old act had been not think it would be so objectionable as passed specially to meet these particular at present. cases, and he did not know that anything wrong had resulted from it.

HON. MR. FERRIER said that anyone who could remember the circumstances connected with the business of Montreal for the past three years, would agree that the provisions of the law should be made much more stringent than at present. They should particularly provide for such cases as persons going on board a ship in a way that would enable them to communicate with those on board and to stop entirely the discharging of the cargo by the sailors of the ship. He thought it really necessary that there should be some legislation more stringent than any that now existed, and which would protect the commerce of the country; especially that of the ports of Montreal and Quebec.

HON. MR. MILLER had no doubt the law was required for Montreal and Quebec, but the position seemed to be, that because the law was necessary for those two ports, a general law should be passed applicable to the whole Dominion, and affecting ports whose trade does not call

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said there was no objection to those words.

HON. MR. TRUDEL thought a change might be made in this sense- -that the law should be enforced against a party who, having been ordered to retire, would remain on board against the will of the officer. It would not be easy to clear a person against whom a master of a vessel might go and make a declaration setting forth that the man came on board his vessel against his wish; and unless it were enacted that he should expressly order the man to withdraw and only proceed against him in the event of his refusal to obey, room would be left for arbitrary conduct on the part of an officer of a ship. He thought that a very severe law should be enacted to meet the requirements of such cases as had been alluded to, yet he felt it would be easy to frame the clause so that it would not allow of the exercise of any arbitrary power. The Hon. Minister of Justice had said a few moments before that he thought no magistrate or judge would enforce the law without very clear proof of the bad intention of the offender having been adduced, but some magis

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trates and justices of the peace are far from learned in the law, and have no great experience in its application, and might be inclined to take the letter of the law and say, "The law says that any person found on board a ship against the "wishes of the master shall be imprisoned;" and so it could happen that a master would swear that the person was on board against his wish,-though no order had been given him to withdraw-and the magistrate might punish an innocent party. He thought it would be easy and desirable to mention that there should be an obligation on the master of a vessel to order the intruder to withdraw, and it would be a very simple way to meet the difficulty.

HON. MR. KAULBACH asked if the Hon. Minister of Justice meant to say that this power was conferred upon ordinary justices of the peace?

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said the powers given would be found in the last clause of the bill, and they were all special magistrates.

HON. MR. KAULBACH asked if it would not then be the case that any ordinary magistrates, such as they had in Nova Scotia, would not have these powers?

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL replied they would not as it was desired that the provisions of the bill should be carried out by persons specially qualified to deal with it.

HON. MR. KAULBACH said in view of this explanation, the bill was not so objectionable as it otherwise would have been.

HON. MR. POWER thought that the alteration suggested by the Minister of Justice might to a certain extent defeat the object of the Bill, because one of its objects was to prevent these men loading a vessel when they were ordered not to do SO. The alteration that the hon. gentleman proposed would not make that an offence at all unless they continued on board. The mere fact of a man going on board when the master ordered him off should be a penal offence.

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said there was no difficulty about making the bill a little more particular in the direction to which objection was taken, but he asked the House to bear in mind that the bill was not merely to provide against persons going on board, but going and being on board-which means that they continue there without permission; and he reminded the hon. gentleman from Richmond (Mr. Miller) that if a person remained on board without the permission or consent of the master it was almost equivalent to being there against his will. He was, however, quite willing to make the clause clearer and suggested that in the twelfth line instead of the words, "shall go and be on board" there should be inserted the words, "shall go and remain on board." Also that there should be inserted in the fifteenth and sixteenth lines, as suggested by the hon. member from Richmond (Mr. Miller) the words, "against the will and." It would then read, "against the will and without "the permission of such master." He further considered it would be well to use the same words instead of those at present used in the twenty-first line, and thought when that was done there could be no danger of the bill being mis-applied. stated that the same law was in force in England, at London, Liverpool and other seaports, and had existed in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia for several years past, yet no evil had followed and he felt the House might rest secure in the belief that no evil results would spring from the measure. He had no objection HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL said to amending the bill in the way proposed. the master would have to establish before

He

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-Very well I will make the alteration.

HON. MR. POWER said it seemed to him that the views of the hon. Senator from De Salaberry might be met by amending the sixteenth line by adding the following " without the permission and contrary to the orders of."

HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-It is the same thing.

HON. MR. POWER said it was necessary to meet the difficulties suggested by the hon. Senator from De Salaberry.

a magistrate that he had told the man to THE ATTEMPT ON HER MAJESleave.

TY'S LIFE.

MESSAGE FROM HIS EXCELLENCY.

HON. MR. HAYTHORNE called attention to the fact that these offences could only be tried before certain judges. HON. SIR ALEX CAMPBELL-The In Prince Edward Island a police magis- Address which the House voted a few trate could be found in Charlottetown, and days ago to Her Majesty congratulating also judges of the county courts, but as a her on her escape from assassination was general rule in the rural districts of the transmitted by telegraph on the night of Island only justices of the peace could be the day it was passed by this House. found, and in cases of necessity a long Since then a message has been received journey would be required before any of in return from the Colonial Secretary the authorities mentioned in this Act could which His Excellency has desired me to try the offence. read. It is as follows:

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HON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-As I mentioned on the second reading of the

The amendment was agreed to, and the Bill, it is introduced with the view of preclause as amended was adopted.

HON. MR. BUREAU from the committee reported the Bill with amendments which were concurred in, and the third reading was ordered for Wednesday next.

The Senate adjourned at 4.40 p.m.

THE SENATE.

Ottawa, Tuesday, March 7th, 1882.

serving the right of Canada to legislate for itself with reference to fugitive offenders so far as regards its own borders. The Imperial Parliament passed an Act for the rendition of fugitive offenders from one colony of the empire to another, and they could pass it with greater advantage than could be done by any colonial legislature, because they have the right to deal with all the colonies and with prisoners on the high seas. Although we yielded to that view of the matter it was thought desirable to preserve our own autonomy, and to legislate within our own borders. It is proposed to do so by this Bill which really applies to Canada and to fugitive offenders

The SPEAKER took the Chair at within the limits of the Dominion the proThree p.m.

Prayers and routine proceedings.

visions of the Imperial Act. I think I can give the committee an idea of the whole measure by reading the English

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