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HON. MR. POWER-The hon. gentleman who now leads the House so ably, said on that occasion: "It was suggested that there was a clause in the Bill that it should not come into operation until the expiration of this Parliament."

HON. MR. READ-If the House of Commons had allowed that it would not have been objected to so much.

HON. MR. POWER-Perhaps not. Sir Alexander Campbell, continuing his remarks at that time, said :

the people of the whole country, by interfer ing and giving time for the sober second thought of the Commons, who, after they had got over their present flush of triumph,would feel more like dealing with the subject in a juster direction, and would not force on such legislation as this."

I only hope the hon. gentleman will view this matter-after having heard what he said in 1874, and presuming it was right as we do, and will vote with us to throw out this Bill. The leader of the Government in the other House has declared that he still holds to the principle which he enunciated in 1872, and he enunciated briefly a further rule on the first reading of this Bill, when he said the object of this Bill was to equalize, as much as possible, the population in the constituencies of Ontario. The hon. gentle

"It was suggested that there was a clause in the Bill that should not come into opera tion until after this Parliament, but that was pooh pooled, and he felt justified in saying that the object was-indeed the avowed object to take 200 votes from one constituency and give them to another, at a time when an man from Ottawa has shown how he election was imminent, or at least likely to equalized that population. When the take place. Take the case of Montreal and Bill was introduced in the other House, see how this would work; let us suppose 200 the leader of the Government stated in votes taken from Griffintown or Montreal East and added to the western division just before the beginning of his remarks all the an election came on! Could anything be changes that were necessary. He said more unjust? He did not think there could, that the County of Essex should be and when a majority was inclined to carry divided into two ridings; Lambton should with a strong hand an arbitrary measure of be divided into two ridings; the two this kind, that would have the effect of which he spoke, and which was contrary to fair ridings of Bruce should be increased to play, good sense and sound reasoning, it was three. That disposed of three of the time for the Senate to interfere in a matter additional seats. He then said the which so much concerned the people." three ridings of Middlesex should be What is the duty of the Senate now? increased to four; the two Simcoes three and Hon. gentlemen are not proposing to should be increased to interfere with one constituency, but they the two Ontarios should be inare proposing to interfere with fifty creased to three.

constituencies on the eve of an election.

These were all the additions that were necessary and according to the hon. gentleman's own showHON. SIR ALEX. CAMPBELL-ing all these changes are embraced in nineBecause we are required to do so under teen of the fifty-three sub-sections of this the Confederation Act.

.HON. MR. POWER-The hon. gentlemen are now prepared to do in fifty instances what they at that time condemned their opponents for doing in one instance. Further on in that debate Sir Alexander Campbell is reported as having said:

Bill, so that the other thirty-four subclauses are altogether unnecessary and are introduced for some object other than to carry out the equalization of the population and provide for the additional representation. This Bill, as has been very clearly shown by the hon. member for Ottawa, is not in accordance either with the principle ennunciated in 1872-that municipal divisions were to be regarded"Now, supposing they took a warm interest in the west division of Montreal, what would nor is it in accord with the additional be said if they took 200 votes from Griffin- principle enunciated in 1882-that the town, or if in Quebec they took 200 from population was to be equalized. I wish Champlain, and gave them to the centre to call attention to two or three of the division? If such legislation was to be many discrepancies in the Bill. The hon. allowed, every person whose election was Mininister of Inland Revenue said that doubtful would be endeavoring to reconstruct

his constituency, so as to make his seat safe. the only objectionable feature in the measHe hoped the Senate would do their duty to lure was one that was introduced on the

motion of a member of the Opposition- HON. MR. POWER-The Government that was the taking of Port Elgin from took very good care not to interfere with Saugeen and putting it into the north counties that were in the habit of returnriding of Bruce. What are the facts? ing Conservative members. It was only Members of the Opposition insisted that the Reform constituencies of Western the whole district of Saugeen, including Ontario or the doubtful ones that were Port Elgin, should form part of the electo- reconstructed. Hon. gentlemen seem to ral riding of North Bruce. think that the "hiving" of Reform voters is a mere trifle; I wish to show

HON. MR. AIKINS-That was not in that it is a very serious matter. I will their original motion.

just take eight constituencies, beginning with North Oxford, where the Liberal majority under this Bill would be 1,500'; and the smallest of the eight would give a majority of 400. They aggregate a Liberal majority of 5,500. The force of

HON. MR. POWER-Then Mr. Patterson again moved in amendment that the Bill be again recommitted to a committee of the whole with instructions that they have power to amend the same by that will be seen when we reflect that at providing that the township of Saugeen the last general election the aggregate of shall form part of the electoral district of the majorities in forty one counties was the north riding of the county of Bruce. only 2,305, so that there the Grit No doubt the gentleman who moved this majorities have been combined to more amendment thought that the Government than double the amount that would have having consented to put the village of been necessary to have turned the scale Port Elgin into the north riding of Bruce, in the last general election in Ontario. would not have the face to let the town- There were nearly forty counties in which ship standalone in another county. Under the majority was under 100, so that hon. the present law which this Bill proposes to gentlemen can see the full force amend, the electoral district of Monck con- of this proceeding. The friends of the tained 17,145, being 3,762 below the quota, Government have declared in the most but by the change the population of persistent way that their policy is so acMonck is reduced to 15,940. So that ceptable to the country that if they went instead of being equalized the inequality to the people on their policy and on their has been increased in that case. I shall record they would come back with a now call attention to one point that was larger majority than they have at present. dwelt on slightly by the hon. gentleman I think, as a rule, those who boast the from Ottawa, and which contradicts, most emphatically, statements of the Minister of Inland Revenue. I find that eight of the seats in Eastern Ontario have the following population :

South Grenville..

North Leeds..

Brockville..

Frontenac .

Kingston...

West Peterboro'.

Ottawa (2 seats)..

13,256

12,423

14,993

loudest are not the most confident. If the Government feel certain of the result of the elections, why do they go to the country at the expiration of four years instead of allowing Parliament to sit out its whole term? Why do they attempt to concentrate the Reform majorities in those few constituencies in Ontario, and why do they say to the constituencies that have 15,207 sent members here to support them that they will not trust these constituencies 14,091 again. They say to the constituency of 13,310 Brockville, for instance, "True, you 27,412 elected a supporter, but we doubt if you will do it again, and we will put in the trusty little town of Kitley to make you sure." So they go from one constituency to another, taking off a township here and adding another there, showing that they do not believe that the constituencies that supported them before will support them. again. It looks to me like a breach of trust on the part of the Government to do

This gives an average for each seat of 13,946. The hon. gentleman will see how near that is to his average of 21,000.

HON. MR. AIKINS-If these seats had to be rearranged we would have had to change every constituency in the Province.

HON. MR. FLINT-Let them pass a representation by population bill and they will get it then.

This

a thing of that sort. I think that it is the average of only 13,048 each, and there duty of members to go back to the con- are six members from Quebec who represtituencies that sent them here and render sent on the average only 10,297, so that an account of their stewardship to them hon. gentlemen will see that the pretext and not to totally different constituencies (perhaps it is not a parliamentary word) as they now propose to do. In addition advanced by the Government that this to all this, which is limited to Ontario, Bill is intended to honestly carry out the they propose to take into their hands the principle of representation by population power of appointing returning officers, a has no foundation in fact. This is the most objectionable feature, and one first time, as far as I know, in the history which indicates a decided retrogade step of any British province or colony in which -a step twenty years back, not in time, the party in power have undertaken by an but in political civilization. But if the prin- unfair manipulation of the constituencies ciple of representation by population is a to keep themselves in office; and if the good thing why is Ontario to have a Conservatives regain power by this measure monopoly of it ? Why should the other they can continue to repeat the process provinces not have the same advantage? indefinitely. One of the practical results of this measure will be either such an outburst of popular indignation as will put an end to attempts of this kind in the future, or we shall before long have a dissolution of the Confederation. I think HON. MR. POWER-Take the Province it is well that the Government have selected of Prince Edward Island. There are Ontario for the first attack; because it is three counties in that Province returning a powerful province, one that has the will two members each. Queens has a popu- as well as the power to resent the unfair lation of 48,000 while the adjoining way in which she has been treated. county has only 26,000. So that one man Bill coming after the disallowance of proin Kings County is as good as two in vincial acts and after the refusal to carry Queens. The City and County of Hali- out the boundary award, is very likely to fax return together two representatives for create a spirit of hostility against the a population of 67,917. The County of Government in Ontario which will lead to Cape Breton has a population of only a complete failure of this measure and 31,258 and it returns two members, so probably to the defeat of the Government. that one man in Cape Breton is rather If it does not we shall probably before better than two men in Halifax. The very long find this country reduced to the County of Queens has a population of level of Mexico or some of the South 10,577, returning one member, so that American republics where they have the in that county one man is rather better form of responsible government but not than three men in Halifax. The same the substance, and where the party in disproportion exists in Inverness and power violates the constitution to retain other constituencies. Then take New office until a rebellion of the people puts Brunswick the County of Sunbury has a them out. population of 7,651; Restigouche has 7,038, and each of these counties returns HON. MR. TRUDEL-As I will not one member, while Westmoreland with a have an opportunity to vote on this meapopulation of 37,719 has only one repre- sure, having paired, I wish to say that sentative. York has a population of over what I have heard from the hon. gentle30,000, and returns only one member. men who oppose this Bill has not been Now, if representation by population is so sufficient to induce me to vote against it. good a thing we, who adopted it so many In the House of Commons the leaders of years ago in the lower provinces, are en- the Opposition did not disapprove of the titled to it as well as the people in Ontario principle of the Bill, if I understand their are. An examination of the Census will motions correctly. It is easy to see from show this fact about Quebec: there are the record that while Mr. Blake moved an thirteen members from that province who amendment to the motion of Sir John A. average 31,422 constituents each, and Macdonald, disapproving of some of its twenty-five members representing an details he did not negative the principle

of the Bill itself; he did not propose that | for instance what was formerly called the no legislation in that direction should be Town of York: in 1830 it was represented passed this session, while the motion of by one member and contained 2,860 in the hon. gentleman from Ottawa would habitants; at present it has some 86,000 have precisely that effect. I fail to inhabitants, with three representatives. see how we can vote against the The following is a comparative statement second reading of this Bill, and for of the Census of Ontario for the years the amendment of the hon. gentleman 1830 and 1882: from Ottawa, under the terms of the Confederation Act.

Glengarry
Cornwall

Dundas.
Prescott
Renfrew
Ottawa

South Grenville.
North Leeds & do...
South Leeds..
Carleton..

HON. MR. FLINT-The hon. gentle- Stormont man from Halifax has asked why some of the provinces besides Ontario are not equalized. He certainly knows, or ought to know, that no other province has representation by population, and, consequently, there can be no alteration of the constituencies. If they wish for representation by population they can very easily obtain it, and then they will have a chance for redistributing their constituences; South Renfrew under present circumstances they cannot The effect of this Bill, as I condo so. sider it, is to readjust the constituences of Ontario and give it increased representation according to its increase in population. In 1830 the population of Ontario 211,000; there were twenty-nine constituences and fifty members of Parliament. Since that time, of course we have

was

North Renfrew.
Frontenac..

Kingston City.
Lennox ..
Addington

66

Prince Edward
East Hastings
West Hastings
North Hastings.
East Northumberland
West
Peterborough West..
Peterborough East..
East Durham....
West Durham.
South Victoria..

Pop. 1830. Pop. 1882.
9,564 22,221

[blocks in formation]

Increase.

12,657

[blocks in formation]

Brockville.
South Lanark..
North Lanark.

[blocks in formation]

19,042

5,284 14,993 9,709

3,635 14,091

10,451

9,658 16,314

30, 126

9,794 21,044

11,250

[blocks in formation]

North Victoria.
Muskoka..
South Ontario.
North Ontario.
Toronto City.
West York.
North York..
Sonth Simcoe.

East York.

North Simcoe.

Peel..

gone on increasing until the policy of
representation by population was adopted,
and since its adoption, of course there
has been a readjustment from time to time.
The Confederation Act provides that there
shall be a readjustment every ten years,
and the simple question is, what is to be
done; has that readjustment to be made
so as to please only the party in Opposi-
tion? I should think not, and the very
fact of the introduction of the famous
Tuckersmith Bill shows sufficiently what
would have been done by the late Gov- Cardwell.
ernment under the circumstances, at that Welland.
time. If that Bill had passed this House, Niagara.
there were several others ready to come
down upon us for readjustment of their
constituences so as to prevent persons
whose seats were unsafe from losing them
altogether. That was what we might justly
consider taking an unfair advantage of a
constituency, but I do not see anything
unfair about the present measure, because
the law requires that there should be a
change every ten years, and we must under
the Act make that change according to
the number of population. We will take

Monck.
Lincoln.
Haldimand.
South Wentworrh.
North Wentworth...
Hamilton City..

Halton....
South Wellington....
Centre Wellington.
North Wellington...
South Grey.
East Grey
North Grey.
South Norfolk.
North Norfolk.

13,886 21,919

[blocks in formation]
[blocks in formation]

Centre Huron..

26,474

26, 103

39,803

24,971

27,102

42,616

North Huron.

South Bruce.

North Bruce.

Bothwell..

Lambton.

Kent.

Essex.
Algoma.

3,891 36,626
5.397 46,962
20,320

....

27,868 direction although it is not satisfactory in all its details. It is true it has come down late in the session, but the session has been very much protracted owing to the course pursued by the Opposition in the other House. But for them we should have had this Bill before us a month ago; and, after all, when we have finished it and returned to our homes, and come to re61,543 flect on the business we have done this session I think we will be no worse friends than we have been since the opening of Parliament.

32,735 41,562

HON. MR. WARK-I intend to vote for the amendment, but not to deprive Ontario of four members. This Parliament has another year to run, and I cannot understand the object of dissolving it this year if it is to be dissolved. If a vote of want of confidence had been carried against the Government or their 211,160 1,946,532 780.843 majority had dwindled away, a dissolution This shows a net increase in twenty-nine this year might be proper, but there is no counties and union of counties, cities, etc. necessity for it and we have no authority for of 780,843; and an increase in forty saying that it will take place. Let us reject counties, divisions, and cities not estimated this measure now and give the public an in 1830, of 954,529, or a total increase in opportunity to consider it carefully. Then, the population of Ontario since 1830 of when Parliament meets next year, we will 1,735,372-an increase in 51 years of 803 be better prepared to legislate on the subper cent; or an average of 1534 per ject. The question of representation by cent. per annum. When we come to population was, of course, a matter distake this into consideration it shows how cussed between Upper and Lower Canada. the country has increased in population, It was a very exciting subject, but I do as it has also prospered in wealth and im- not think that the public men who met at portance. The present Bill may be per- London, and framed the British North haps wrong in some of its details, but America Act ever thought of representataking it as a whole, I think it is a good tion by population being carried further measure, and I am therefore prepared to than to give each province representation give my vote in its favor. As an Upper in proportion to its population. I do not Canadian, having resided all my life in think they ever intended that at the end Ontario, and having grown with its growth of each decade the boundaries of the con-if I have not strengthened with its stituencies should be changed. The hon. strength-having known it as a forest, member from Halifax has referred to the when even this city had no existence and disproportionate representation of several the surrounding country was an un- counties in the Maritime Provinces. broken wilderness, I consider that our far as New Brunswick is concerned I do progress has been marvellous, considering not think there are more than two the difficulties under which we have had counties, perhaps not more than one, that to labor. I do not think there will be any would wish for any change with regard general dissatisfaction throughout Ontario to the present representation, although if this Bill should pass, or that the indig- no doubt the population of some counties, nation spoken of by the hon. gentleman is greater than the population of others. opposite (Mr. Scott) will extend much I think every member of the House of further than to a few members who have Commons, as well as every Senator, should been disappointed, and their friends. I look upon himself as the represesentative do not believe that it is going to bring of his Province rather than of his conabout a rebellion; I think it is in the right stituency. It is very different in the local

So

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