SEPTEMBER, 1837.]

Fourth Instalment Bill.

[H. OF R.

a Government bank under the proper disguises | I shall proceed to make as succinct a statement for the present, and through its agency to sub- of what I believe to be the existing condition stitute a circulating medium composed of Fed- of the Treasury as I can, that it may be seen eral Government paper instead of the notes of whether the repeal of the act of 1836, proposed State banks. We have the germ of this bank by the bill under consideration, is demanded by now before us; its parts are already sufficiently the state of the Treasury, or by the public indeveloped to indicate its true character. At terest; for, if it be so, I shall be prepared to another session, or in another Congress, by one give it my support. or another addition, by way of amendment, we shall eventually behold the monster developed in all its frightful proportions. Such a subject is surely of consequence enough by itself to occupy the attention of the House, without connecting it with the less important subject under consideration.

But the questions presented by this bill are of great interest to the country. It is true the object to be accomplished by it has less connection with the great results to which I have alluded than any one of the other measures proposed for our adoption; and I believe it will be found upon examination to have originated more from the settled hostility of the administration to the policy of the deposit law of 1836, than from any actual necessity of the Government, or its tendency to promote the favorite fiscal policy of the Executive; but still it is of a piece with the general conduct and policy of those in power. One question which will be found to arise under the present bill involves the public faith. The question is presented, whether Congress or the Federal Government is not bound to keep its promise, or comply with its engagements with the States of the Union, by obligations as strong as any that can exist between it and its creditors, of any other nature or description. It is a question whether, if the States agreed to accept the deposit of the surplus in the Treasury, according to the terms of the act of 1836, by which it was tendered to them, there was not from that moment a contract between them as obligatory as any other compact between the Government and the States can be. Can the General Government, without consulting the other parties to this arrangement, dissolve it without a breach of faith?

But, sir, there is another and a much more impressive and important inquiry which presents itself in considering the effect of this bill: I mean the great question whether the expenditures of this Government are to be reduced now or ever? This is now the issue, and it is to be determined almost exclusively by this House. We already know the determination of the Executive branch of the Government, and all the influence attached to it; and we know, too, the decision of the other branch of the National Legislature. It devolves upon this House, I repeat, to settle the issue, whether the expenditures of this Government, after having been increased nearly threefold within the last few years, are to be reduced now or ever? These are questions truly which may command our exclusive attention for a season. With these convictions, and a corresponding determination,

Much confusion was produced yesterday by the mere statement of the condition of the Treasury, which was presented to the House by the chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means, (Mr. CAMBRELENG.) I do not mean to say that the statement of that gentleman varies materially from that of the Secretary of the Treasury, but certainly it was well calculated to add to the difficulties which all must have felt in coming to any satisfactory conclusion as to what is the real state of the National Treasury.

I propose to present a statement based upon the facts and estimates contained in the several reports made by the Secretary of the Treasury at the present session, which I believe may be relied upon. At all events, I shall be obliged to any gentleman who shall detect any error in my statement to point it out to me as I proceed.

[Mr. Bell then entered into an elaborate examination of the state of the Treasury, to show that there would be a surplus of twenty millions; and then proceeded:]

I have now, sir, shown that, taking the statements of the several reports of the Secretary of the Treasury as correct, if the funds lying dead in the hands of disbursing officers be brought forth and applied in aid of the expenditures of the last quarter of the year, as they should be, the fourth instalment due the States can be paid, with all other actual demands against the Treasury during the year, and not scarcely more than a nominal deficit; but if, as has always been the case heretofore, a portion of the actual demands upon the Treasury shall not be presented for payment at the depositories of the public money within the year, there will be a surplus, in fact, still left in the Treasury at the end of the year.

The question now is, whether the States have not acquired rights under the act of 1836, which it is not competent for Congress to annul or defeat without their consent. It is a question of power and of right in the General Government whether, after the States have accepted the terms of the deposit act; after many of them have anticipated the funds which they expected to receive in payment of the fourth instalment, and made other important arrangements connected with their financial interest and condition, they will not have just cause to complain of a breach of faith, if this Government shall now proceed to abrogate the compact by legislative action merely, and without any communication with the States. I call upon those gentlemen especially, who hold to

H. OF R.]

Bankrupt Laws.

[SEPTEMBER, 1837.

Mr. MCKAY reasserted that his minutes were from the Secretary's own hand.

what is called the State rights party, to say | MCKAY's) estimate to his own, (Mr. BELL's.) upon what grounds they can support the bill There had been no extraordinary expenses or under consideration? Will it not be a usurpa- subjects of expenditure in 1837. tion, a clear assumption of power on our part, and an insulting disregard of the State sovereignties, if, after deluding them with promises of these funds upon certain conditions, which have been acceded to by the States, we should claim the power to postpone the execution of the compact, or to annul the whole proceeding unconditionally, without reference to their wishes or interests, and even without consulting them?

But, sir, we have the same grand object, inviting us to reject this bill, which operated with many gentlemen in giving their support to the deposit act of 1836. The question is now, as then, whether we shall set about curtailing the extravagance and profligacy of the Government in its expenditures. We have tried every other plan-every other occasion, in vain. If we would prove ourselves what we profess to be-if we be ourselves in earnest-if we are seriously the advocates of retrenchment and reform, we can never hope, in our time, a more propitious season to make one more bold and determined effort. "Now's the day, and now's the hour." If we suffer ourselves to be deluded by the arguments and the devices of the advocates of power, and shall let this opportunity pass, we need never hope again. There is only one expedient left, and that is, to withhold the supplies; stop the money; keep the Treasury drained and low; cut off the means; and I engage that the expenditures, for once, shall be reduced to the actual wants of the Government. I call upon the experienced of the House-the observation of them, and there are some who have had seats here for more than twenty years-to say, if any time could be so fit, or promise equal success, in effecting this great object, as the present. I repeat, if the means are not supplied, the expenditures must cease.

Mr. MCKAY, of North Carolina, contended, in reply to Mr. BELL, that there had been no change in the ordinary expenditures of the Government during the last year, but it was the extraordinary expenditures of the year which made the great difference. He agreed that in these there had been much extravagance, and he had voted against them all. Of many of those appropriations he would remark not one dollar had yet been expended. He then entered into some estimates, and read voluminous data, furnished him, he said, by the Secretary of the Treasury himself, in his own handwriting, to show the truth of his assertion as to the expenditures of the year. Among the extraordinary appropriations for the year, he named the amount of $5,000,000 to carry into effect the Cherokee treaty.

Mr. BELL remarked that that did not enter into this estimate, as it was an appropriation of 1836, and just about so much as this error in his calculations made would reduce his (Mr.

Mr. CAMBRELENG said that there were other items of a similar character omitted by the gentleman from North Carolina, which would make up the sum he had named.

Mr. McKAY remarked that the gentleman would have an opportunity at the next session of Congress to bring forward his plans of reform, as the Secretary had already postponed the expenditure of $15,000,000 appropriated by the last Congress till after the first of January next. He then took similar ground to that maintained by Mr. PICKENS, as to the creation of a debt, as the necessary consequence of permitting the deposit act of 1836 to go into further operation.

WEDNESDAY, September 20.
Bankrupt Laus.

Mr. BIDDLE inquired of the chairman of the Committee of the Judiciary, or any other gentleman on that committee who could give him the information, whether it was the intention of that committee to report on the subject of bankruptcy, which had been referred to them in the Message of the President of the United States. As it was a subject of very deep interest to the whole community, he would further ask whether it was the intention of that committee to report any bill which might come in conflict with the constitutional opinions of the President, as expressed in the Senate of the United States some years since. It will be recollected that the present President expressed it as his opinion, in his place in the Senate, on a former occasion, that a bankrupt law, extending to others than merchants and bankers, would be an unconstitutional act; and he wished to know whether it was the intention of the committee to introduce a proposition of this kind.

Mr. THOMAS (chairman of the Judiciary Committee) said he felt that the response which he should make to the gentleman would be unsatisfactory. The Committee on the Judiciary had held two meetings on the subject, which had been generally referred to them. At the first meeting, it appeared to meet the approbation of all the members of the committee that the final decision as to the propriety of reporting a bankrupt law should be postponed until it was distinctly ascertained whether the measures which were expected to come from the Committee of Ways and Means would so long occupy the attention of Congress as to extend the present session to the meeting of the regular session of Congress. In this state of the case, power was given to the chairman of the Judiciary Committee to reassemble the committee as soon as the proper information could be obtained.

SEPTEMBER, 1837.]

Fourth Instalment Bill.

[H. OF R.

now, and our expenditures must be reduced to seventeen or eighteen millions.

The gentleman from Tennessee appeared to complain that the Executive had not, when the crisis came upon the country, in May last, directed the different departments to stop the expenditures. This was singular doctrine, after all we had heard for some years past on the subject of Executive usurpation, to expect the Executive to direct the execution of the laws to be suspended, while there were means in the and of the departments were, from necessity, similar to those stated by the gentleman. It was evident that the revenue would fail, and that some of the expenditures could not be met -a minute inquiry was instituted in every branch of public expenditure, to ascertain what could be conveniently postponed till next year. It was ascertained that some fifteen or sixteen millions might be suspended till the next year, to wait the future action of Congress.

A few days since, when he (Mr. THOMAS) was absent, a gentleman from Virginia propounded an inquiry to the committee somewhat similar to the one now propounded; and in consequence of this a member thereof reassembled the committee, for the purpose of considering whether they should report now, or wait until the regular session of Congress. This meeting was held without coming to any conclusion, and an adjourned meeting of the committee was to be held to-morrow morning. The gentleman would therefore perceive that he could not pre-Treasury. But, sir, the views of the President tend to say what would be the course of the committee on this subject. The House had referred to them the Message of the President and the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on this subject, and he was not prepared to say what would be the decision of the committee; whether they would be disposed to pass a general bankrupt law to affect that class of citizens alluded to by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. BIDDLE,) or not. On to-morrow morning, however, the subject would be taken up, and he presumed he would be instructed by the committee to make a report to the House in some shape or other.

Fourth Instalment Postponement Bill.

On motion of Mr. CAMBRELENG, the House then went into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. HAYNES in the chair, and resumed the consideration of the bill to postpone the fourth instalment of deposit with the States.

It would, however, be wholly impracticable to curtail the expenditures in the last quarter of the present year. The very branches of expenditure referred to by the gentleman from Tennessee are not now within our reach. Onehalf of the amount is already expended, and most of the remainder is under contract. Whatever we may do in curtailing the expenditures for the next year, any attempt to interfere with the expenditures of the last quarter would be wholly unavailable; and, if attempted, must be attended with much loss and embarrassment to the Government.

exhibit a deficiency in our means to meet the current expenses of Government. This deposit cannot be made unless we create a public debt for the sole purpose of placing a surplus in the Treasury, to be transferred and deposited in the Treasuries of the several States. Such a measure, he felt persuaded, would never be sanctioned by Congress.

Mr. CAMBRELENG said he would detain the committee only to make a short reply to the Gentlemen might take what view they gentleman from Tennessee, (Mr. BELL.) The pleased of the state of our finances, but it is gentleman had referred to the project of estab-impossible to make any estimate which will not lishing a Treasury bank of deposit and issue. On that question he would not now detain the committee further than to say that the Treasury bank was already established, not only of deposit, but of circulation. We have always had one to some extent, and have generally had two millions of warrants in circulation. He had also referred to the expenditures of Government-they had increased two or three-fold; but that increase had been made almost exclusively for extraordinary purposes. We appropriated, in 1836, thirty-eight millions; of which, as may be seen by a report of the Committee of Ways and Means, seventeen millions and a half were appropriated to ordinary purposes, and twenty inillions and a half to extraordinary objects. Of the latter, thirteen millions and a half were required for Indian treaties and Indian wars in the neighborhood of the gentleman from Tennessee. The appropriations for the present year amount to thirty-two millions, of which fourteen were for extraordinary purposes. He concurred with the gentleman as to the necessity of reducing the public expenditures. It is obvious they will, as they have done uniformly, increase with an increasing revenue, and be suddenly curtailed when the revenue falls short. Such would be the case

Mr. BELL made a few remarks in rejoinder to Mr. CAMBRELENG, and insisted that the statement of the gentleman did not controvert Mr. B.'s of yesterday, that there was a dead fund of five millions of dollars on hand; and that, assuming that fact, which he said was incontrovertible, according to the gentleman's own estimate, there would be a deficit of only one million some odd hundred thousand, but, according to Mr. B.'s estimate, an excess of rising three millions.

Mr. UNDERWOOD next addressed the committee. Mr. Chairman, (said he,) I have listened to the debate with surprise. It seems that the Secretary of the Treasury is unable to make a plain statement, unfolding the present condition of the national finances, or that we are incapable of understanding it. In either case, there is cause for regret. It is a national calamity that a man should be placed at the head

Fourth Instalment Bill.

for ten "principal officers," under this scheme! | attempt to show, grew out of a policy the most How many minor officers-clerks and agentswill be required, we are not informed; nor are we told what necessity there will be for additional buildings; nor are we told where they are to be located. I will venture to predict that, instead of $60,000 a year, this sub-Treas-ject the official elevation of its projectors and ury scheme will cost the nation double or treble as much, should it ever go into operation; and just in proportion as the people lose money, to sustain the establishment, so will the President gain power to reward his partisans.