bacco. An abolition of duties on silks and wines will increase our purchases of those articles, and her purchases of our cotton and tobacco, and require a great increase of ships for their transportation. The same of the West India trade. We have a great trade with these islands, the chief articles on our part beef, pork, flour, corn, corn meal, whiskey, bacon, and lumber; and hers, coffee and specie, of which they sent us last year fifty millions of pounds of the former, and two millions two hundred thousand dollars of the latter. Our duty on coffee is five cents a pound, more than half of the first cost of the article. Abolish it, and we shall take double the quantity of coffee, and greatly increase our exports of provisions and imports of specie. Mr. B. had now finished his exposition of the reasons and policy of his resolutions. He had spoken to them all at once, but they could be discussed separately on the motion of any Senator; the vote, of course, would be on each separate resolution. [JAN. 7 to 12, 1829. "From a painful conviction that a manifestation of the public sentiment, in the most imposing and impressive form, is called for by the present agitated state of the Southern section of the Union, the General Assembly of the State of Georgia have deemed it their duty to adopt the novel expedient of addressing, in the name of the State, the Senate of the Congress of the United States. the act of the last session of Congress, entitled "In her sovereign character, the State of Georgia protests against "An act in alteration of the several acts imposing duties on imports,' as deceptive in its title, fraudulent in its pretexts, oppressive in its exactions, partial and unjust in its operations, unconstitutional in its well known objects, ruinous to commerce and agriculture-to secure a hateful monopoly to a combination of importunate manufacturers. Demanding the repeal of an act which has already disturbed the Union and endangered the public tranquillity, weakened the confidence of whole States in the Federal Government, and diminished the donment of the degrading system which considers the people as incapable of wisely directing their own enterprise; which sets up the servants of the people in Congress as the exclusive judges of what pursuits are most advantageous and suitable for those by whom they were elected, the State of Georgia expects that, in perpetual testimony thereof, the deliberate and solemn expression of her opinion will be carefully preserved among the archives of the Senate; and in justification of her character to the present generation, and to posterity, if, unfortunately, Congress, disregarding the protest, and continuing to pervert powers granted for clearly defined and well understood purposes, to effectuate objects never intended by the great parties by whom the Constitution was framed, to be entrusted to the controlling guardianship of the Federal Government. should render necessary measures of a decisive character, for the protection of the people of the State, and the vindication of the Constitution of the United States. Mr. SMITH, of Md. moved the reference of the first resolution to the Committee of Finance. He said, that the subject was one that required much consideration; that he had applied some of his leisure hours to satisfy himself on the subject; that he had not yet perfected his inquiries. So far as he had gone had convinced him that the Senator (Mr. BENTON) was mistaken. If referred to the Committee, the subject would be fully investigated, and he believed it would be shown, that there would be of debt, (redeemable at the pleasure of the Government) sufficient, with the interest annually paya-affection of large masses of the people to the Union itself, and the abanble, to absorb the whole of the ten millions of dollars which the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund were authorized by law to apply annually to the payment of the principal and interest of the public debt. He had, he said, completed his inquiry for the years 1829 and 1830, and could state that there were of six and five per cent, redeemable during those years, a sum which, with the interest accruing for those years, would amount to $22, 878,639; the payment to be made for those two years, agreeably to law, was twenty millions, which would leave a surplus, payable in 1831, of $2,878,639. He trusted, he said, that he had satisfied the Senate, that, during the years 1829 and 1830 there were of stocks redeemable, and of interest payable, an amount amply sufficient to satisfy the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund for those two years. He added, that he was not yet prepared to give a statement respecting the years 1831 and 1832, but if the resolution should be committed, he hoped, and believed, that he would be able to show that, without any authority to purchase, the whole or nearly the whole of the 6, 5, and 43 per cent. debis, (Bank debt excepted) might be paid off in 1832. Mr. S. concluded by offering the following as an amendment to the first clause of the resolution: Strike out the first clause, and insert"Resolved, That the Committee on Finance be instructed to inquire into the expediency of authorizing the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund to purchase, at its current market price, the public debt, whenever, in their opinion, such purchases can be made beneficially for the interests of the United States, and consistently with existing engagements." After a few words from Mr. BENTON, by way of rejoinder, the resolutions were ordered to lie on the table. WEDNESDAY, JAN. 7, 1829. IRBY HUDSON, Mr. BERRIEN said, that the annunciation made from the Chair, imposed a duty on his colleague and himself, which, with his assent, he would perform, by giving a direction, with the sanction of the Senate, to the document, which had been just announced. I am not willing, sir, [said Mr. B.] to see an act so grave and interesting in its character, pass away with those mere every day events which are forgotten almost in the instant of their occurrence. In order, therefore, that it may be distinctly presented to the notice of the Senate, before I submit the motion which it calls for, I will state its purport, and avail myself of the occasion to make a very brief remark. That document, sir, of which an official copy has been transmitted to my colleague and myself, is the protest of the State of Georgia, made through her constitutional organs, to this assembly of the Representatives of States, against the "act in alteration of the several acts laying duties on imports," passed at the late session of the Congress of the United States. In her sovereign character, as one of the original members of this Confederacy, by whom this Government was called into existence, that State protests against this act, on the several grounds which are specifically set forth, in that instrument, which is attested There was no business transacted this day giving rise by the signatures of her Legislative and Executive functo debate. THURSDAY, JAN. 8, 1829. There was little business transacted this day-nothing to occasion debate. Adjourned to Monday. tionaries, and authenticated under her public seal. It is now delivered to this Department of the Federal Government, to be deposited in its archives in perpetuam rei memoriam, to serve whenever the occasion may require it, as an authentic testimony of the solemn dissent of one of the Sovereign States of this Union from the act therein protested against, as an infraction of the constitutional compact by which she is united to the other members of this Confederacy. It is difficult, sir, to repress-it is, perhaps, still more difficult appropriately to express the feelings which belong to such an occasion as the present. I have been educated in sentiments of reverence for our Federal Union, and, through life, I have habitually cherished these sentiments. As an individual citizen, therefore, it is painful to recur to that disastrous policy which has imposed on the State in which I live the stern necessity of assuming this relation to the Government of this Confederacy. [SENATE. at nought, they will still look with confidence to the returning justice of this Government. I fulfil my duty, sir, on this occasion, with a cherished reliance on that justice; with a deep and abiding conviction of the patriotism and forbearance of that people by whom it is demanded; with an humble but unwavering trust in the mercy of Heaven. On motion, by Mr. BERRIEN, the letter and protest were then ordered to be printed, for the use of the Senate. THE SINKING FUND, &c. Mr. S. withdrew his amendment, and moved to refer the whole subject to the Committee on Finance. The Senate then took up for consideration the resolutions heretofore offered by Mr. BENTON, relative to the As one of the Representatives on this floor of that Sinking Fund, the Public Debt, the Bank of the United State, whose citizens have always been forward to mani- States, &c.-the question being on the amendment herefest a profound and devoted attachment to this Union-tofore submitted by Mr. SMITH, of Maryland. of a patriotic and gallant people, who would freely yield their treasure and unsparingly shed their blood in its defence; the occasion is one of deep and unmingled humiliation, which demands the deposite, in the registry of the Senate, of this record of their wrongs. There may be those, sir, who will look to this act with indifference, perhaps with levity; who will consider it as the result of momentary excitement; and see, or think they see in it, merely the effusion of impassioned, but evanescent feeling. I implore those gentlemen not to deceive themselves on a subject in relation to which error may be alike dangerous to us all. Forty years of successful experiment have proved the efficiency of this Government to sustain us in an honorable intercourse with the other nations of the world. Externally, in peace and in war, amid the fluctuations of commerce and the strife of arms, it has protected our interests and defended our rights. One trial, one fearful trial, yet remains to be made. It is one, under the apprehension of which the bravest may tremble-which the wise and the good will anxiously endeavour to avoid. It is that experiment which shall test the competency of this Government to preserve our internal peace, whenever a question vitally affecting the bond which unites us as one people, shall come to be solemnly agitated between the Sovereign members of this Confederacy. In proportion to its dangers should be our solicitude to avoid it, by abstaining on the one hand from acts of doubtful legislation, as well as by the manner of resistance on the other, to those which are deemed unconstitutional. Between the independent members of this Confederacy, sir, there can be no common arbiter. They are necessarily remitted to their own sovereign will, deliberately expressed, in the exercise of those reserved rights of sovereignty, the delegation of which would have been an act of political suicide. The designation of such an arbiter, sir, was, by the force of invincible necessity, casus omissus among the provisions of a constitution conferring limited powers, the interpretation of which was to be confided to the subordinate agents, created by those who were entrusted to administer it. I earnestly hope, that the wise and conciliatory spirit of this Government, and of those of the several States, will postpone, to a period far distant, the day which will summon us to so fearful a trial. If we are indeed doomed to encounter it, I as earnestly hope that it may be entered upon in the spirit of peace, and with cherished recollections of former amity. But the occasion which shall impel the sovereign people of even one of the members of this Confederacy to resolve, that they are not bound by its acts, is one to which no patriot can look with levity, nor yet with indifference. Whatever men and freemen may do to avert it, the people of Georgia will do. Deeply as they feel the wrongs which they suffer, they will yet bear and forbear. Though their complaints have been hitherto disregarded, and their remonstrances have been heretofore set Mr. SANFORD said, he was satisfied that it was expedient to adopt the first of the resolutions of the gentleman from Missouri. We have now [said he] about fifty millions of debt, and the whole of it, excepting the three per cent. debt, may be discharged in three or four years. What is to be done with the three per cents, amounting to more than thirteen millions of dollars? Is this part of the debt to be perpetual? His own opinion was, that this, like every other portion of the debt, should be extinguished, as soon and as fast as possible. How is the three per cent. debt, then, to be extinguished? Certainly, in no other way than by payment or purchase. We must either pay the full nominal amount, or we must purchase this debt from its holders. The highest market price to which this debt has risen is eighty-five per cent.: the fluctuations of the market, for a long time past, having been between eighty and eighty-five per cent. ; and the medium rate of the market being, perhaps, about eighty-three per cent By the restriction now in force, under the law of 1817, the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund are not permitted to purchase this debt, when its market price exceeds sixty-five per cent. None has been purchased; and none will ever be purchased, while this restriction continues. To provide for the payment of this debt, or to declare our purpose to pay it, would elevate the debt to par; but to give an authority to purchase would not much advance the market price of this debt. Such an authority ought to be, and would be, exercised very cautiously and slowly. This debt is widely diffused, and much of it is held in Europe. So long as it is an annuity of indefinite duration, its value is governed by the market rate of interest, and it cannot rise much above its present market rate; since, at a higher rate, it would afford an interest lower than the lowest market rate of interest in the world. So long, therefore, as the final discharge of the capital of this annuity is indefinitely distant, the capital itself will probably never rise to ninety per cent. in the market. As it is clearly our interest to buy this debt rather than to pay it; as the greater part of this debt is held by persons who have no desire to sell it; as the portions offered in the market, from time to time, are small; and, as it would be inexpedient to raise the market, by offering higher prices than the current rates; it is necessary, if we intend to purchase, to begin and to proceed with all the caution of discreet buyers. There can be no doubt that an authority in the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund to purchase at market rates would be judiciously exercised by them. If this operation shall be commenced, until all the other portions of the public debt shall be paid, our situation may, and probably will, be that, with means in the Treasury fully equal to the discharge of this debt of thirteen millions, we shall be obliged either to postpone its payment, or to pay it at par, or to purchase it upon terms far less advantageous to the public than may be made by gradual and progressive pur SENATE.} Sinking Fund, &c. chases. There can be no doubt, that, by a judicious course of purchases of this debt, a very large sum may be saved to the public. Mr. BENTON called for a division of the question, so that the Senate might decide separately on each clause of the resolution; which was agreed to. Mr. B. then stated, that he was opposed to sending his resolutions to the Finance Committee, as mere resolutions of inquiry. He had sent them to that committee, in that form, at the last session, and had them returned, like a bill of indictment ignored by the grand jury. He did not think it worth while to send them, through the same process, a second time. He was for discussing them here, as he had a right to do, under the rules of the Senate, which it was proper to do on many occasions, and doubly proper on this occasion, when the question which grew out of his resolutions was one of principle, not of detail, and when the committee had once shown themselves to be unfavorable. He was glad to see the Senator from New York (Mr. SANFORD) on his side. He had not expected to argue these questions, but only to turn the attention of others to them, who were more conversant than himself with subjects of finance. His walk lay in a different field-among the public lands, the military and the Indian affairs. As for the finances, the public debt, the sinking fund, the abolition of duties, and the balances in the hands of the Bank, they were all subjects out of his range, and, in moving certain resolutions about them, at the last session, he thought he had nothing to do but to put the ball in motion But quite the contrary he had found to be the fact. The ball soon stopped, or rather rolled back upon him; and, as he was not the man to give up when he thought himself right, he had now done what he pledged himself to do, at the last session he had started the ball again, and meant to keep it a going. He was rejoiced to see the Senator from New York (Mr. SANFORD) taking part with him even on one branch of his resolutions. JAN. 12, 1829. would not avail in this country: for the price of our stock will certainly be increased with the increased demand for it, should a law be passed as proposed; and, if the price for the three per cents. should be fixed at 85, it would immediately rise above it; and, the moment we resolve to purchase up the debt, or to redeem it as soon as proposed, it would rise to its nominal value, and we should have to pay dollar for dollar. Thus, no benefit would arise to the United States, but much to the holders of the stock. The Sinking Fund, he contended, was merely a resolution to pay ten millions a year of the public debt; it was never contemplated to buy up stock to any great extent, nor was it ever expected that it would have that effect. The Sinking Fund had answered all the purposes expected from it, one of which was to keep up the price of United States' stock, and had fully accomplished the object of its creation. The three per cent. stock may be continued for years, under an arrangement, and not felt as a burthen by the community; and, if gentlemen entertained the opinion, that the debt might, with safety, be reduced more rapidly than at present, a power could be given to the Secretary of the Treasury to purchase as occasions offered, which would answer every reasonable purpose. He would leave the matter to the Committee on Finance, so far as an inquiry into the expediency of the measure was concerned; but he could not, as at present impressed, vote for the passage of the proposed law; at least, so far as he was concerned, he thought the inquiry by the Committee should precede the passage of the law. After a remark or two from Mr. SANFORD, in further explanation of his views of the subject, Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, that, having made the motion, it was incumbent on him to say a few words on the subject. He then took an extended view of the funding system, from its commencement. He said, that the old six per cents. had been considered irredeemable, except by the payment of eight per cent. per annum, on Mr DICKERSON said, he did not rise to oppose the every certificate for one hundred dollars; that, in the reference of the subject to the Committee on Finance; year 1802, Congress passed an act, appropriating the yet he was not willing to adopt the resolution, and give sum of $7,300,000, to be paid annually to the Commisthe discretionary power to the Commissioners of the sioners of the Sinking Fund, to be applied by them to Sinking Fund which was proposed. It certainly was de- the payment of the principal and interest of the public sirable to extinguish the public debt, as soon as a due re- debt; and, on the purchase of Louisiana, an addition gard to the general interest would permit. It will be high- was made to that fund of $700,000, making the whole ly gratifying to proclaim to the world that we are out of fund eight millions-that the system operated well. It debt. To purchase up the debt would be to incur a heavy enabled the Treasury to pay off with the surplus funds loss; we cannot gratify ourselves in this particular, with- the debt due to Holland; but that debt being paid off, a out paying too dearly for the gratification. The gentle- large surplus would have remained in the Treasury, inman from New York (Mr. SANFORD) had stated truly applicable to any object, until the eight per cents., conthat the creditors in Europe owned a very considerable tracted in Mr. Adams's administration, should become payportion of the stock of the United States, and had re-able, which was, he believed, in 1809. To obviate that marked that the three per cent. stock might be pur- difficulty, a proposal was made, in 1806, he believed, to chased at $3 or 85 per cent. But the fact was, that, if the holders of the six per cent. debt, and acquiesced in by we purchased at 85, we should lose two millions, and, if them, that, in lieu of the stock held by them, payable, at its nominal value, four millions of dollars. The Com- as already stated, by eight dollars annually on the 100 missioners of the Sinking Fund are now authorized to dollars, they should receive a new stock for the balances purchase this stock at $65 for the hundred, which is con- due to them, bearing an interest of six per cent., and residered its par value; the whole, at that rate, would deemable at pleasure. That arrangement enabled the amount to something more than eight and a half millions Commissioners of the Sinking Fund to apply, annually, of dollars; if we purchase it at $85 the hundred, the the whole of the eight millions, and the old six per present market price, it will cost us more than eleven cents. have been paid off many years (he believed nine) millions of dollars; and, of course, we should incur a loss sooner than could have been done under the previous of more than two and a half millions; and, if we redeem system. it at its nominal value, we shall incur a loss of more than four and a half millions; and this to be taken from our Treasury, and a considerable part of it put into the pockets of stockjobbers in Europe. What would be the consequence of going into the market, and purchasing the public debt, as proposed? Why, our stock in Europe, as well as at home, would immediately take a rise, and its value would be considerably increased. The argument of the gentleman from Missouri, relative to British stocks, The late war involved the United States in a large debt, he believed, exceeding one hundred and twenty millions of dollars; and a new law passed, on the 3d of March, 1817, which appropriated ten millions of dollars, annually, to be applied to the payment of the interest and principal of the debt. The system has operated as well as its most sanguine friends could have contemplated. It is due to Mr. LOWNDES, then Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means. It has nearly paid off the whole of the debt, and will, without any extraneous aid, discharge nearly the whole (the three per cents. and bank debt excepted) in the year 1832. But, said Mr. S. we are told that we cannot pay the debt, except by purchase. Why? Because the Senator (Mr. BENTON) assures us, "that there was no way to prevent an accumulation of near twenty millions of dollars in the Treasury, in the years 1832 and 1833, to lie there idle, (or rather in the bank) or, what was worse, to be directed to some subordinate object, while public debt to that amount was unpaid, and drawing interest." If, said Mr. S. the Senator be correct in his assertion, then it is indispensably necessary that the Senate should adopt some measure to prevent so great an evil. If, however, he should have been mistaken in his calculations, and, if it can be shown that there will be of debt redeemable nearly sufficient to absorb the ten millions at the disposition of the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, and the small deficiency can be supplied, without the necessity of having recourse to purchase; and, if it can be shown that nearly the whole, perhaps the whole, of the debt will be paid off before the year 1833, then the authority to purchase the 4, 5, and 6 per cents. will be wholly unnecessary. Mr. S. said, that he hoped to satisfy the Senate on all those points. It had been, he said, the practice of his long life to have recourse to figures, on all similar subjects: not, he said, to figures of speech or rhetoric, but to arithmetical figures. He could rely on them for truth, and would proceed to state the ground on which he relied with confidence. The debt, he said, amounted, on the first of January, to $58,362,125; deduct therefrom the bank debt and the 3 per cent, amounting together to $20,296,249, and there will remain a debt of 6, 5, and 43 per cents. of $38,065,886, which, he expected, might nearly be discharged in the year 1832, perhaps entirely. Mr. S. proceeded and said, that there will be redeemable, in 1829 and 1830, an amount of six and five per cents. redeemable at pleasure, which, with the interest on the whole debt, will make together the sum of $22,553,179, being $2,553,179 more than the twenty millions applicable by the Commissioners to the payment of the debt and interest for those two years. That unpaid balance, Mr. S. said, would be paid in 1831, which, together with stock, redeemable in that year, bearing an interest of 4 and 5 per cent., would, with the interest payable in that year, afford an amount, redeemable and payable, of $15,353,824; in that year, the Commissioners would, of course, pay the ten millions, and there would then remain a balance, to be paid in 1832, of $5,353,824. Here, Mr. S. stated separately the amount of the several stocks that became redeemable, during the year 1831, and the amount of interest payable; he also said, that it was proper for him to inform the Senate that $10,999,000 of those stocks were not redeemable until the 31st of December of that year, of course, that there would only be a little more than $2,600,000 that the debtor could be compelled to receive, on the 1st of July, the time at which the semi-annual payment is generally made; but, as more than six millions of that stock was held by the Bank of the United States, he could not doubt that the Board of Directors would readily consent to relinquish so much as would be necessary to complete the usual payment of five millions, in July. He did not doubt, he said, for he believed they were well disposed to do any thing in their power to accommodate the Government. It was greatly their interest to be on the best terms with the Treasury. The inconvenience would be trifling; besides, they would know, that, unless they did accommodate, the Commissioners would be compelled to redeem a part of the seven millions Bank debt. Mr. S. then said, that he hoped that he had satisfied the Senate that there were more than sufficient of stock VOL. V.-4 [SENATE. redeemable and interest payable, during the years 1829, 1830, and 1831, to absorb the thirty millions applicable, during those years, to the payment of the debt, and that, there would be no unemployed money in the Treasury or Bank during those years. The balance unpaid, in 1831, said Mr. S., of $5,353,824, would be paid, in 1832, which, with the stock redeemable in that year, and the interest to be paid, would together make the sum of $8,896,779; being about a million less than the ten millions in the hands of the Commissioners; which million would, he conceived, be relinquished by the Bank from the stock it held in the loan, due on the 31st December, 1834, for reasons similar to those he had already given; indeed, he said, he felt certain that they would accommodate the Treasury, without. hesitation. Mr. S. proceeded, and said, that he trusted that he had satisfied the Senate, that, instead of twenty millions lay-. ing in the Treasury unapplied, whilst a debt was unpaid, bearing interest, that there would not be one dollar. It was, however, proper for him to state, that there would still remain a small debt of about two millions, redeemable in 1833, and another, of a little more, in 1834; but that they were not of importance, and would be paid without being felt; that it was possible the whole of those debts might, by management, and an increase of revenue, be paid in 1832. If not, it ought not to deter us from repealing the duties on articles which now give a revenue of eight, perhaps ten millions; but, on that subject we could act more advisedly at the next session, when we should better know the effect of the last tariff. For himself, he was decidedly of opinion that duties to that amount ought to be repealed, and, in the recess, he would prepare a bill with a view to that object, which he thought he could submit early in the session. But he was unwilling to touch the subject during the present session, for it was one that required time and great consideration. Mr. President, said Mr. S., the view I have presented is predicated on the present state of our affairs, and the existing laws; he could not, and would not, pretend to estimate whether the revenue will be greater or less than it has been heretofore. It may be such as will enable the Commissioners to pay more than the ten millions per annum. The Secretary says that it will exceed the estimates for the expense of the current year in the sum of a million and a half of dollars, but we may make extraordinary appropriations to that amount during the present session; we seldom have made less. The Secretary goes farther, and thinks it probable that the revenue which will be received in 1829, will exceed his estimate, and he, Mr. S. fully agreed with him; yet we may both be mistaken. If we are right, then the Commissioners may pay this year more than the 10,000,000. The Secretary has afforded us no data for 1830, and he has acted prudently: for no human foresight can tell. We may speculate upon it, but there can be no dependence upon our speculations. It is, however, reasonable to suppose that the importations in autumn, especially of woollens, will fall very far short of those of 1828, of course that the receipts in 1830, when the bonds become due, will perhaps be less than those were of 1827. The importations of 1830 may increase, and those of 1831 may be as great as ever they have been: for I am not one of those who believe that the tariff will exclude importations. The articles will be required for the consumption, and they will come as usual, openly, and pay the duties, unless, indeed, the demand shall be supplied by smugglers, which is to be feared. The temptation given by the late tariff is so great, it may become a business; and men will probably be found, who will, for one quarter of the duties, insure the safe delivery of the articles wanted.. Mr. S. (addressing the Chair) said, that he hoped he had shown that there was ample employment for all our means, until the 31st December, 1832, before which period he flattered himself that our revenue would be increased by a repeal of certain duties; their repeal, he said, would lessen the expenditure in every family, and thus enable the manufacturer, mechanic, and all descriptions of persons, to work for less prices. If the laborer can live for one-third less, he ean afford to work for just so much less. The three per cents, he said, required some attention; the gentleman from New York, had considered the subject properly: for he admitted that a law directing their purchase would probably raise the price from 85 to 90 per cent. and at that price a purchase was desirable. From which the Senator from New Jersey dissented How it could enter into the imagination of the Senator from Missouri that a large purchaser, openly coming into the market, would lower the price, he could not conceive; the idea had, however, the merit of novelty. But, said Mr. S. where is the money to come from? He had shown that the whole of the means of the Treasury would be employed until the 1st of January, 1833, in paying off the 43, 5 and 6 per cents. and the interest thereof. Certainly the Senator from New York could not believe that the Commissioners would decline paying off those stocks, bearing such interest, for the purpose of purchasing the three per cents. at 85 or 90 per cent. equal to an interest of 5 1-10 per cent. if bought at 85; and at 5 4-10 per cent. if bought at 90 per cent.; and why be so desirous of paying off a debt at so great a loss? The whole interest on the debt amounts to about $40,000 per annum, which can be paid out of $140,000 per annum, gained by our seventy thousand shares of Bank Stock. At any rate, if you would purchase, you have not the means at present, without diverting them from more profitable objects. On the whole, Mr. S. was against making any alterations in the funding system. It had operated well, and he was disposed to let well enough alone. He had intended to have discussed all the other resolutions, and particularly that on the Bank, but considered himself not at liberty to discuss any except the first, now under consideration. Should an opportunity occur, he thought he could show, that the taxing of the Bank for the use of the public deposites would be an infraction of the charter, and highly injudicious and injurious to the Government. He trusted that the resolution would be referred. Mr. JOHNSTON, of Louisiana, said that, having, on a former occasion, expressed his opinion upon the proposition to repeal the 4th section of the Sinking Fund Act, and the Committee on Finance having, at the last session, made a full and satisfactory report on that point, which had, no doubt, been carefully read by the Senate, he should pass over that resolution. [Here Mr. J. was informed that the subjects had been divided.] Mr. JOHNSTON said he would then reply to the first resolution, which proposes to authorize the purchase of the public debt in the market. He said he thought it premature to pass a law at this session, which must be inoperative for two years to come, and which would, in effect, supersede all other modes of employing the public money, whatever might be the future opinion of Con gress. Mr. J. remarked that we should have ample employment for our funds during 1829 and 1830. He said there was redeemable, during the present year, 16,279,822 dollars of stock, bearing six per cent. and there was a stock of 1,539,336 dollars, of four and a half per cent. payable half this year and half the next; which, with the accruing interest, will make a sum nearly equal to the Sinking Fund of ten millions for two years. This stock bears a high rate of interest, and above the market rate of money, and which it is the interest of the Treasury to pay as soon as possible. He said [JAN. 12, 1829 16,279,822 1,539,822 17,819,644 1,600,000 $19,419,644 Besides the accruing interest on the balance of the debt of upwards of thirty-three millions, amounting to a million and a half annually, which will make the sum of twenty-two millions payable in 1829 and 1830; which is as much as can be safely estimated for these two years. It was probable there might be a surplus in the Treasury, at the end of 1830, which may vary from one to two millions, but of that, at the present, we could form no satisfactory opinion, so as to become the basis of any financial arrangement. We cannot anticipate the revolutions in commerce, the effect of the tariff on the revenue in that year; nor can we calculate what sums may in those two years be applied by Congress to internal improvements, and other extraordinary objects. In the year 1831, there will be no stocks redeemable, and consequently, we may calculate on ten or twelve millions of dollars in that year, for which Congress must provide before that time arrives. But, he said, it appeared to him too soon now to provide for the purchase of stocks, which could not be effected under two years. While one gentleman proposes to purchase our stocks in the market, another suggests the expediency of dividing this sum among the several States; another claims a portion of it for great national improvements; another thinks that will be a proper time to commence a reduction of the duties. The public mind is not yet sufficiently formed and expressed on these propositions. We require facts, and time for deliberation. The next will be a long session, and we shall then have the benefit of a full discussion; and the session after 1830-31, will be in good time to decide what ought to be done with the revenue of 1831. The gentleman from Missouri proposes now to pass a law to authorize, at that time, the purchase of the stock. This may become the most judicious application of the money, but it is premature, and unnecessary now to give the authority. When we go into the market, we may not be able to buy our stock at its par value; indeed, we know we must pay more; and the very fact of going into the market to purchase so large a sum, will raise the price. It will be advisable, at the next session, to ascertain what can be done in the market, with the fund holders, to legislate advisedly-upon that information my opinion will be formed. Mr. J. said the gentleman has suggested the propriety of purchasing the thirteen millions of three per cents. The propriety of that must depend on the price at which they could be bought. If they must be purchased at par, that is, 100 for 100, then we dispose of our money for three per cent. which we are not prepared to do for the present. The three per cents. are now selling at 85 on the 100, that is, equal to an investment at $3 53 per cent. which is less than the market rate of interest. This arises chiefly from the fact, that this stock will, before many years, be paid off at 100, when the holders will realize 15 dollars on each share, which will bring the stock to 4 or 4 per cent. equal to the value of money in the market. The price of this stock is now estimated at 100 for 100, in making a calculation of its value. This stock could not be purchased at 85, because the holders now see it will ere long be redeemed, and, when redeemed, must be taken at 100. The gentleman not only misconceives the nature of this stock and the price of it, and the effect of going into the |