H. of R.] Postages. [JAN. 5, 1832 He So the whole subject was ordered to lie on the table. THURSDAY, JANUARY 5. POSTAGES. before the House, a centrifugal tendency in its debates, Kendall, Kennon, Leavitt, Marshall, Maxwell, R. McCoy, and when there was no definite question, the debate McKennan, Mercer, Milligan, Newton, J. Reed, Rencher, usually ran wholly astray. The debate upon this resolution Shepperd, Slade, Stanberry, Standifer, Stewart, Taylor, affords a striking illustration of this remark. A gentle- F. Thomas, J. Thomson, Tompkins, Vance, Vinton, man from New York, who took part in it, had brought a Wardwell, Wheeler, E. Whittlesey, E. D. White, Wilsort of writ of right in favor of his State against the State liams, Young.—70. of Virginia, for something like half the continent. argued it with much ability for some two or three days, during the hour allotted to resolutions. Without meaning any rebuke to the gentleman for introducing that topic, it must be admitted that so long as no one disputed the present title of the United States, its bearing upon the resolution is not very obvious. But if the resolution goes to the Committee on the state of the Union, this contro- ultimo: versy will probably become the leading topic of debate. Resolved, That the Postmaster General be directed to The gentlemen who represent the ancient commonwealth furnish this House a statement of the annual amount of of Virginia, whose jurists, above all others, are experienc- postage received on newspapers and periodicals for the ed in questions of prior appropriation and disputed boun- preceding five years, designating the amount received on dary, will no doubt make an imposing reply to the gentle- each. Also, his views on the expediency or inexpediency man from New York. Mr. V. said, the further prosecution of abolishing the postage on newspapers and periodicals, of the debate in the manner in which it would probably or either of them. The House proceeded to consider the following resolu tion, moved by Mr. HEISTER on the 22d of December be pursued, could not but be unprofitable to the House, Mr. TAYLOR observed that the practice of the House and hazardous to the question. He therefore hoped some heretofore had been to call on the Executive Depart gentleman who felt an interest in it would bring the House ments for statements of fact, and for the House to form its to a direct vote upon the original resolution, by moving own judgment as to the expediency of any measures which the previous question. He would make the motion him- were to be founded upon them. Where the House knew, self; but, after what he had said, it would be ungracious in from the departments, what was the amount of the revehim to do so. nue, and the objects to which it ought to be applied, it could judge for itself of the expediency of applying the money arising from a particular branch of revenue to any given purpose. It was from no want of due respect for the officer at the head of the Post Office Department that he objected to the resolution, but from an unwillingness that the House should place itself in the attitude of asking the views and opinions of one of the officers of the Govern ment on a subject upon which the House was bound by its responsibility to the people to judge for itself, and act accordingly. Mr. WICKLIFFE, of Kentucky, observed that a call for the previous question, as suggested by the gentleman who had just taken his seat, would not only be very ungracious in that gentleman, but very unkind, if made by any other member, so long as some gentlemen might feel themselves called on to offer a reply to some of the gentleman's remarks, particularly those which seemed to imply some censure on the new States. But, as the whole subject was before the Committee on Public Lands, he had concluded that a resolution like the present ought not to have occupied the time of the House in its discussion. In order, however, to try the feeling of the House, he would, though not calling for the previous question, move that the resolution and amendments be laid on the table. On this motion, Mr. BLAIR, of Tennessee, demanded the yeas and nays; which were ordered accordingly, and taken as follows: Mr. McDUFFIE would not say but that the words of the resolution might be improved: but he thought the most material object of the call would be defeated if something of the same kind as that objected to by the gentleman from New York should not he contained in it. The Postmaster General was certainly more competent to judge what would be the effect on the operations of that department from a measure like that proposed in the YEAS. Messrs. Adams, Adair, Alexander, Anderson, resolution, than any other person could be; and he thought Angel, Babcock, Banks, J. S. Barbour, Barnwell, Bar- there was no impropriety in asking his opinion in referstow, J. Bates, Bergen, Bethune, James Blair, Boon, ence to the proposed change in its arrangements, and its Bouck, Bouldin, Branch, John Brodhead, J. C. Brodhead, effect on the capacity of the department to discharge the Bullard, Cambreleng, Carr, Carson, Chandler, Chinn, functions assigned to it without calling upon the treasury. Choate, Claiborne, Clay, Coke, Collier, Conner, Cooper, It was important to have the judgment of such an officer, Davenport, W. R. Davis, Dayan, Dewart, Dickson, Dou- whether the department would be able to sustain itself, bleday, Drayton, Felder, Findlay, Ford, Foster, Gaither, should the postage on newspapers and periodicals be Gilmore, Griffin, T. H. Hall, Hammons, Harper, Heister, abolished. He, therefore, suggested the propriety of Hogan, Holland, Howard, Hubbard, Ihrie, Irvin, Jarvis, modifying the resolution, by substituting for its latter Jenifer, Jewett, R. M. Johnson, C. Johnson, C. C. John- clause words to this effect, "and, also, what will be effect ston, Kavanagh, A. King, J. King, H. King, Lamar, of abolishing such postage on the revenue and operations Lansing, Lecompte, Lent, Lyon, Mann, Mardis, Mason, of the Post Office Department." McCarty, W. McCoy, McDuffie, McIntire, T. R. Mitchell, Mr. CARSON suggested the propriety of further mo- NAYS.--Messrs. C. Allan, R. Allen, Allison, Appleton, Armstrong, Arnold, Barber, Bell, John Blair, Briggs, Bucher, Burd, Calioon, Condict, Condit, E.Cooke, B. Cooke, Coulter, Craig, Crane, Crawford, Creighton, J. Davis, Dearborn, Denny, Duncan, Ellsworth, G. Evans, J. Evans, E. Everett, H. Everett, Fitzgerald, Grennell, W. Hall, Hawes, Hoffman, Hughes, Hunt, Huntington, Ingersoll, Isacks, Mr. HEISTER agreed to the modification proposed by Mr. McDUFFIE, and so far to that of Mr. CARSON as to substitute three years for five. Mr. INGERSOLL observed that the effect of the proposed measure on the revenue of the department would be known of course to the House when it received an account of the amount of postage. All that it need to ask from the Postmaster General, was the effect on the operations of the department. JAN. 5, 1832.] Rules of Proceeding. [H. OF R. Mr. RUSSEL, chairman of that committee, having nodded assent to this inquiry, Mr. CARSON said that he felt regret at being obliged to make the motion he was now about to propose, since the resolution had been offered by a young member, who might consider himself not courteously treated; but he was constrained to move that the resolution and amendment should be laid on the table. He, however, withdrew the motion, at the request of Mr. RUSSEL, of Ohio, who stated that the whole subject was now before the Post Office Committee, and that, as chairman of that committee, he had called upon the Postmaster General for precisely the same information referred to in the resolution. Mr. ARNOLD thereupon withdrew his amendment; and Mr. CARSON renewed his motion to lay the resolution on the table; which was carried, yeas 91; and the resolution was laid on the table accordingly. RULES OF PROCEEDING. Mr. EVERETT, of Massachusetts, observed that the subject was one of considerable interest, respecting which he had received directions from his constituents, and he feared that, should the resolution pass in its present form, that which was most needed would not be obtained. The resolution proposed an inquiry only into the effect of a total abolition of the postage on newspapers and periodicals. Now, it had been stated to him by those most concerned, that a total abolition would be very inexpedient; that the probable effect would be, to produce such a flood of these publications as would break down the mail, and be attended with such great inconveniences that the law would very speedily be repealed. It would be better, he thought, to inquire what would be the effect of reducing, as well as abolishing, this branch of revenue; and he should be glad to see the inquiry extended to one point further. He meant to the postage on letters. Letter postage was one of the heaviest taxes paid by the people of the United States. It was more universal in its extent than any other, and in its practical operation exceedingly unequal. The requiring double postage on double letters was not regulated on equal principles. The postage was doubled for the smallest and lightest enclosure; a bank note or a receipt paid as much as the largest letter; and also, in appor- Resolved, That so much of the seventeenth rule of this tioning the postage to the distance, the law was very House as limits the presentation of reports and resolutions unequal and oppressive. The restriction of no tax would to one hour, be rescinded. come home to the business of a large number of the citi- Mr. TAYLOR said the practice of offering resolutions zens, or be attended with a greater increase of the comforts to be referred to committees, had grown up to a considerof life than this; he did not wish to interfere with or em-able extent in a few years. For a long time after he had barrass the operations of the department, so as to make it the honor of a seat in the House, private claims were not a charge on the revenue, nor did he think that such would urged there by resolutions, but by petitions. It was thought be the result of the measure proposed. It would occasion then that the members composing the committees of that no reduction in the actual amount of revenue, since, House were persons composed of common intelligence, although the postage on a letter might be materially dimin- and possessed some knowledge of the nature of the ished, yet the number of letters transmitted would be great-duties assigned to their care; but, of late, it might almost ly increased. He therefore suggested that the resolution be considered that every individual member appeared be further modified by adopting these or the like words: to be better informed of the duties of the different "also, his opinion as to the effect on the operations of the department from the reduction or abolition of postage on letters, newspapers, and periodicals.” The following resolution, offered by Mr. WILLIAMS, was next taken up: committees, than the committees themselves, by the numerous resolutions for instruction which were continually introduced. The practice had extended probably This was accepted as a modification by the mover. beyond what necessity required; and resolutions now enMr. INGERSOLL thought that, in order to accomplish croached much upon the ordinary business of the House. the object in view, the House would require a statement Formerly, when some resolution was found to lead to a of the whole receipts of the department derived from prolonged and useless debate, it was competent in any letters, periodicals, and newspapers, distinctly stated under member to move that the House proceed to the orders of different heads. He believed no branch of the revenue the day, and the House then, at its pleasure, determined would better bear the pruning knife than the tax upon let- whether the matter under consideration was of such imters. It was more emphatically a tax upon the poor. The portance as to supersede the regular order, and acted tax upon newspapers operated upon another class of per- accordingly. Now, as was well known, the practice was sons; when men were restrained from subscribing to a very different. He did not know but that it would be betpaper, it was not by the expense of postage, but by the ter to recur to the old practice of business in this respect, subscription price of the paper. But the poorer citizens but he was averse to a peremptory repeal of the sevenwere restrained from letter writing by a dread of the post-teenth rule, or that part of it which the resolution referage they must pay. red to, and should, therefore, move an amendment to the Mr. ARNOLD said he was desirous of seeing the call so proposition. extended as to call on the Postmaster General to state the After the word "Resolved," strike out the balance of the amount of costs which the department has paid for pub-resolution of the gentleman from North Carolina, and insert, lishing its advertisements throughout the United States; That the seventeenth rule of this House be amended, by and, also, the total number of newspapers published in striking out the following words: "And not more than one the Union. He thought that both these items of inquiry hour in each day shall be devoted to the subject of reports would come very properly within the resolution. He from committees, and resolutions," and, in lieu thereof, therefore proposed a further modification to that effect. Or, should the mover think that he had gone far enough in consenting to modifications, Mr. A would move it as an amendment. Mr. CARSON observed that at a very early day in the session the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. ARNOLD] had presented a memorial in reference to the Post Office, and had moved for the printing of it. What he wished to know was, whether the consideration of that memorial, and a report upon it, from the Post Office Committee, to whom he understood it had been referred, would not bring up this entire subject. insert: "And after one hour shall have been devoted to reports from committees, and resolutions, it shall be in order, pending the consideration or discussion thereof, to entertain a motion that the House do now proceed to [dispose of the business on the Speaker's table, and to] the orders of the day. The lines within brackets were subsequently inserted at the suggestion of the Speaker, who stated, that otherwise the effect of the resolution, when acted on, would be to sweep off all the bills from the Speaker's table, by proceeding at once from reports and resolutions to the orders of the day. H. OF R.] South Carolina Claims. [JAN. 5, 1832. The question was then taken, and the proposition as amended was adopted. SOUTH CAROLINA CLAIMS. Mr. WILLIAMS said his object was to facilitate as much as possible the progress of the public business, which the rule of the House, as it now stood, was calculated very much to impede, if not, as it did in many cases, stop it altogether. There were continually resolutions, three or four The bill reported by the Committee on Military Affairs deep, on the table for consideration, and scarcely a member for the adjustment and settlement of the claims of South of the House, at any given time, knew what business was Carolina against the United States, and which it had been coming next. He accepted, cheerfully, the modification proposed to recommit to the Committee of Claims, came proposed by the gentleman from New York, [Mr. TAY-up for consideration, the question being on the motion of LOR,] and was certain that any change of the rule would Mr. McCoy, of Virginia, to commit the bill to the Combe for the better. mittee of Claims. Mr. MCCARTY hoped the resolution would not pass. Under the rule as proposed, they would be prevented from getting almost any question into the House by a resolution to refer it to a committee, for it was notorious that the business of all the States could be got through with in an hour. Mr. MERCER said the resolution would attain the object of the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. MCCARTY,] by really enlarging the time of offering resolutions, for it did not restrict the going through the list of all the States, except by a motion to dispose of the business on the Speaker's table, and proceed to the orders of the day. The SPEAKER said the seventeenth rule prescribed the course of taking up the whole of the morning's busi ness. Mr. MERCER argued for the necessity of changing the rule, urging the disadvantages which at present existed in the mode of presenting resolutions as prescribed by it, as a strong reason for the alteration. Mr. ADAMS said he hoped the bill would be recommit. ted. He had two reasons for this hope: one was a sincere wish that the claims of the State of South Carolina should receive the sanction of the Committee of Claims, and of Congress, and the other was that, should that committee report in favor of the bill, and should the House sanction such a report, he flattered himself that the State which he had the honor in part to represent would come in, on the same principle, for perhaps about a million of dollars from the treasury of the United States. As a citizen of the commonwealth of Massachusetts, such a result would to him be very desirable. He indulged the hope, that if the Mr. ARCHER asked whether the adoption of the origi- Committee of Claims reported favorably, and its report nal proposition to rescind part of the rule, would not received the sanction of this House, the same sanction accomplish the desired object. It would be then, he con- would be extended to the claim that might be preferred ceived, competent, according to the principles of parlia- by Massachusetts. But he had another reason for desirmentary law, for any member to move the orders of the ing the recommitment. He considered that the Commitday, after or during the presentation of resolutions. It tee of Claims might, with great propriety, be denominated was the uniform practice in the British House of Commons, the committee of moral obligations; and, therefore, for from whom we derived our rules of legislative action, himself, he should feel glad if every claim presented to when a debate extended to a length beyond its importance, this House, should go before that committee. It was, inand the House was anxious to arrive at urgent business, deed, true that, owing to the multiplicity of business conto move the orders of the day. stantly before that committee, claims were frequently referred to other committees of the House: but as to the principle on which a claimant might go to the treasury and take out money, he should always wish that the ques tion should be determined by the Committee of Claims. It was the special object of that committee to examine not only the value of the service on which the claim rested, but also what was the obligation morally binding on the Mr. ARCHER suggested that resolutions should be call-United States to pay that demand. That was the specific ed every morning on the Speaker's assuming the chair, object of the Committee of Claims, and the general pracwhich would prevent confusion. With this alteration, he tice of the House had been to refer all claims to that comshould cheerfully yield his concurrence to the resolution mittee. No claim could come before this House, unless, for the proposed change. according to the ordinary rules of proceeding established Mr. WICKLIFFE said great difficulty existed certainly by the several departments of the Executive branch of under the present rule, but there were other rules of the the Government, it could not otherwise be adjusted. In House also, which required revision or alteration. He our Government all claims for money legally due must go moved to commit the subject to a select committee, with before the Executive Departments: those who had admipower to report on the subject of the present resolution, nistered those departments had fixed and settled rules and likewise on any change which they might deem it ex- which operated alike on all, and according to which they pedient to make in the other rules of the House. In mov- admitted or rejected the demands brought before them. ing this, he begged to be understood as not wishing to be No claims which those rules would suffer to pass. ever a member of that committee. troubled this House; and if a claim was disallowed at the department, though supported by evidence, it was be cause the legislative power in the Government was alone competent to allow it. The reason why he particularly desired the present bill might go to the Committee of Claims, was, that that committee had also fixed rules of proceeding; so that the same reasons which induced them to admit one claim, bound them equally to admit another resting on the same principles. When claims were submitted to other committees of the House, those committees might be very competent to examine the nature and proof of the services rendered; but it was not their specific duty to scrutinize the claim on general principles applicable to all other similar claims, and on which the United States were morally bound to allow it. The Committee of Claims had a vast amount of business committed to its charge. If he was not mistaken, the chairman of that committee had, not long since, reported above forty bills at one time, all of them allowing the claims to which they referred. The Mr. MERCER said the difficulty of amending the rule had been obviated, and the present resolution would effect the object they were all anxious to reach. Mr. WICKLIFFE said the difficulty which would follow from allowing the rule hastily, was very apparent. Mr. WILDE supported the proposition of Mr. WICK LIFFE to refer the matter to a select committee. Mr. WILLIAMS hoped it would not be agreed to. The evil was one that pressed upon them daily, and which called loudly for an effectual and speedy remedy. Mr. WICKLIFFE again reprehended the alteration of their rules upon a party discussion. A year or two ago, one of the rules was made to prohibit discussion on a proposition to present, and, in forty-eight hours afterwards, the very gentleman with whom it originated, was found violating it. He would, however, not press his proposition. Mr. WICKLIFFE withdrew his motion. JAN. 5, 1832.] South Carolina Claims. [H. of R. House had, very naturally, and properly, great confidence Mr. McDUFFIE said that if the honorable member in that committee; and he had observed that almost every from Massachusetts [Mr. ADAMS] had as much experience bill reported by them, so soon as it had passed through in the proceedings of this House as he has in regard to the ordinary forms, was sanctioned by the action of the another department of the Government, he certainly House, though, unless other gentlemen were differently would not have submitted the remarks which the House situated from himself, he believed that of many of those had just heard from him. If the views he had presented bills little or nothing was sometimes known by those who were correct, no claim, of whatever character, could passed them. The House proceeded on its confidence in with propriety be referred to any other committee than the vigilance and integrity of that committee--a confidence that of claims. Now, it is known to every person conwhich he thought very proper, and which was fully jus- versant with the forms of our proceeding, that almost tified by the experience of the House. One, however, every standing committee of the House is a committee of of the bills reported from that committee had been ob- claims of a certain description. The Committee of Ways jected to by a member. It was a bill allowing the claim and Means, for example, is the appropriate committee of a widow and orphan; and on the ground of a few obser- for considering all such claims as may be connected with vations by that member, the widow and the orphan were the financial operations of the Government; the Committurned out of doors, to the charity of the atmosphere tee on Military Affairs is the appropriate committee for about this building, with the thermometer below zero. It deciding upon all claims founded upon military services, was true that, on the following day, probably from some and involving military principles; and the Committee of compunctious visitings of nature, on motion of the same Claims has jurisdiction over such claims only as do not gentleman, the widow and orphan were readmitted on properly belong to any of the other standing committees. this floor. Yes, sir, said Mr. A., there they stand, asking This claim of the State of South Carolina is founded the allowance of a pittance in remuneration for the services upon military services performed by that State under very of an officer of the Government now beneath the sod. peculiar circumstances. At a period of great national There they stand and by their side stands a sovereign embarrassment, when the State was threatened with invaState of this Union--there they are, sir; you may see them sion, this Government announced that it was incapable of in your mind's eye--the sovereign State, and the widow fulfilling its constitutional obligation to defend South Caand the orphan, side by side, calling on you for money rolina against the common enemy, and requested the aufrom the treasury. I hope that the claim of the sovereign thorities of that State to advance the money and provide State may be allowed; and may I not venture to say that the men necessary for that object. The Legislature of the I hope the claim of the widow and the orphan will also be State promptly responded to this call upon its patriotism. allowed? But what I say is, that the same committee Men and money were provided, and the question now preought to be charged with the consideration of both claims. sented is, whether these military services performed by "Thou shalt not, in judgment, respect the person of the the State for this Goverment were of such a nature as to poor; thou shalt not respect the person of the mighty." entitle the State to remuneration. Now, can it be seriWe did not respect the person of the poor; we turned ously argued that the Committee of Claims is properly them out of doors. Shall we respect the person of the qualified, from its peculiar organization, to decide such a mighty? of a sovereign State? I hope not. I hope we question as this? It is strictly and exclusively a military shall treat them both alike. I sincerely hope the claim question, depending upon military principles, and obviousof the sovereign State will be allowed-every dollar ly falls within the jurisdiction of the Committee on Miliof it-blankets and all. I say I hope it will be allowed. tary Affairs. Why, then, after that committee has reBut I wish it may be allowed after having undergone an ported on it, and at the moment when the House is about examination by that committee to whom it peculiarly be- to pronounce its judgment, shall the claim be referred to longs to inquire into the obligation of this Government to the Committee of Claims? The gentleman from Massaallow the claim. chusetts seems to imagine, that, by referring this case to These are the reasons why I wish that this bill should the Committee of Claims, some principle will be estago to the Committee of Claims. But there is one more. blished broad enough to give sanction to certain claims on We have a report on this claim from a committee, the the part of Massachusetts. But I confess myself utterly chairman of which is a subject of the sovereign State who incapable of perceiving what possible advantage the claim is the claimant, (I hope that honorable gentleman will not of Massachusetts can derive from such a reference. I do deem this remark to have its origin in any disrespectful not understand the gentleman to intend that the Commitfeeling toward him: far from it.) Sir, we are all the sub-tee of Claims shall now report a bill in favor of Massachujects of sovereign States, except the delegates from Ter-setts. He certainly did not contemplate so irregular a ritories. He is a subject of the sovereign State of South proceeding. Does he imagine, then, that the decision of Carolina. I am a subject of the sovereign State of Massa- the Committee of Claims will give any higher sanction to chusetts. We all know that "sovereign" and "subject" the principle involved in this claim of South Carolina, are correlative terms, and that, wherever there is a sove- than the decision, not only of the Committee on Military reign, there is of necessity also a subject. I have no im- Affairs, but of the House itself? I understand the gentlepression that, because the report accompanying this bill man to say he is in favor of this claim, and wishes it to has been drawn up by a subject of the sovereign State pass, but that he wishes the principle established upon claiming, it does not therefore proceed on the sound- which it shall be allowed. If there be any more solemn est principles. But that equal and exact justice may be form by which the principle can be established, than by done to all, I wish the claim may be submitted to that com- the vote of the House, I am not aware of it. Upon the mittee whose special duty it is to admit and to reject every whole, sir, the only object that can be accomplished by individual claim upon the same principle which it applies referring this claim to another standing committee, will to all others and that is the Committee of Claims. I be to throw it to the bottom of the docket, even if that wish, as I have said, that the State of South Carolina may committee should report in favor of it; and render it exobtain every dollar, every cent, that she claims; but, tremely doubtful whether it will be again reached during since, as a citizen of Massachusetts, I feel, in some sense, the session. This delay I should regard as almost equivapersonally interested, I desire the claim may be thorough-lent to a denial of justice. The agent of the State, the ly investigated so as to be established to the satisfaction of Comptroller General, is now in the city, waiting the deci this House and all others. I then hope that Massachu- sion of the House, that he may adjust and settle the claim setts will have her claim allowed, as resting on the same according to the provision of any act we may pass on the principles. subject. Whatever the House may be disposed to do, I H. OF R.] South Carolina Claims. [JAN. 5, 1832. trust, therefore, it will be done promptly. After a delay which judges of matter and things under the force of of sixteen years, and now that all the facts have been sa- "moral obligation." Sir, this claim has been purely and tisfactorily ascertained and presented to the House, I hope impartially examined; the report of the Military Committee gentlemen will not be prevailed upon, by any fanciful as-is the result of an honest conviction of its justice and equisociation of this claim with that of the widow and orphan ty, and he repudiated any idea or remark which goes to imof General Hull, to give it such a direction as will, in all pute a different course. How was it two years ago, when probability, produce the delay of another year. What the Massachusetts claim (based on similar principles to this) possible connexion can there be between the claim of was presented to this House? Did that go to the gentleSouth Carolina and that of the widow and children of man's committee, which acts by force of "moral obligaGeneral Hull? The gentleman from Massachusetts can- tion?" No, sir, it was referred to the same committee not surely suppose that this claim was rejected by the which has been last charged with the South Carolina claim, House because it was reported by the Committee of Claims, who, after a patient investigation, reported a bill favorfor he informed us that so high was the character of that able to it. For one, he had never doubted the justice of committee, that the bills reported by it habitually pass the a large part of the claim, but the circumstances under House upon faith, without being examined or understood which it was passed were such as to compel him to vote by the members. I cannot conceive, therefore, for what against it. It was called up at the very heel of the session, purpose the gentleman has alluded to that case, or how when we were clothed in midnight darkness, (as the the vote of the House upon it can serve in the remotest journals would show,) and passed. He, for one, voted degree to illustrate his argument. As he has brought it against it, because time was not given to examine its deto view, however, I will take leave to remark that I did tails. Sir, the gentleman has thought proper to place this not understand or vote upon it, owing to the confusion and claim on a footing with one rejected the other day, in renoise which prevailed in the House at the time it was de- lation to the notorious General William Hull, a name which cided; but if I have correctly understood its merits, the is held in just abhorrence and contempt by every republiclaim ought never to receive the sanction of Congress. I can and friend of his country. What sir, are we to be understood it to be a claim for the salary of General Hull, gravely told that a "sovereign" State, who gallantly stepas Governor of the Michigan territory, after that territory ped forward to defend the rights and liberties of the counwas ignominiously surrendered to the enemy by the Ge- try in a moment of great peril, is now to be placed on a neral himself, although he was receiving the pay and emo- footing with a traitor! What, sir, did the State of South luments of a major general during the very same period Carolina do? for which this claim is put in for his salary. If such shall prove to be the nature of the claim, it shall never pass the House with my consent. such claims, when presented to this House, should always have his support, let them come from what quarter they may. After you had plunged the country into a war, without the means to prosecute it, an incendiary enemy hovering on your coast, and in sight of land, with every Mr. SPEIGHT, of North Carolina, rose, and commenc- probability of burning one of the most populous towns ed, by observing that but for the peculiar situation in of the State, South Carolina gallantly stepped forward which he stood, he should not have troubled the House in defence of her invaded rights, and called her militia with any remarks on the question now before them. Hav-into the field. And now, sir, we are here attempting to ing the honor to belong to the Military Committee, who adjust her claim with all the rigid scrutiny applicable to had been charged with the examination of this subject, a penal statute. That State, sir, which, without requir he felt it his duty to reply to some of the remarks which ing a call from the General Government to defend the had fallen from the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. country, is now to be cavilled and quibbled with about ADAMS.] Mr. S. said he knew it was not in order to the pitiful sum of $7,000, which was expended in the charge the gentleman with intending to impugn the motives purchase of blankets for her soldiers. This is the prinof the Military Committee; but he appealed to the House, cipal cause of opposition to the bill, as though it was not and every gentleman conversant with the meaning of as important to the soldier to have a blanket as a coat. words and phrases, if such was not the effect of the gentle- Sir, I repeat, again, that no undue influence has had any man's remarks. What "moral obligation," he asked the weight with the Military Committee in their decision on gentleman, was it that bound the Committee of Claims, this claim. We acted in relation to it as we believed the that did not with equal force apply to the Committee on merits of the case required. We believed it based on Military Affairs? It is true that two of the members of principles of equity and justice; and if we are under no the latter committee are from the State of South Carolina, force of "moral obligation," we are of patriotism; and but he assured the gentleman that nothing like sinister motives had governed a single member of the committee in reporting favorably to the claim. For one, he would say that he had calmly and dispassionately examined the principles on which the claim was based, and, as God was his judge, he believed it to be as just a claim as was ever preferred before this House. This claim was once before the Committee of Claims; they had, in a very elabo- gentleman of directly making the charge; he had only rate manner, submitted their views to the House; that spoken of the effect of his remarks, and he presumed every report was now in the possession of the House, where the gentleman who heard him understood his meaning. gentleman from Massachusetts can, at his leisure, exa- Mr. EVERETT, of Mass., said, that with respect to mine it. For his own part, he did not profess more than the subject last alluded to by the gentleman from North an ordinary share of understanding in relation to the du- Carolina, [Mr. SPEIGHT,] viz. the claim of the represen ties of committees; but so far as he had been able to com- tatives of William Hull, he would remark, as he had preprehend them, the duty of a committee, he thought, was sented their petition, that when the bill came up again, to inquire into the truth of facts connected with any pro- he should endeavor to satisfy the gentlemen from North position before the House, and to submit the same in de- and South Carolina that the facts of the case were not tail. This, he repeated, had been done, first, by the Com- precisely as they understood them. If he should succeed mittee of Claims, and, second, by the Military Committee; in this, he should not despair of getting their votes for and if the honorable gentleman could point out any new the claim. Meantime he thought it better that the House fact, the elucidation of which would throw any new light should confine its attention to the matter in hand. on the subject, then he might, with propriety, urge the necessity of sending this claim back to his favorite ordeal, [The SPEAKER remarked to Mr. SPEIGHT that he understood the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. A.] to disclaim any thing like imputations of a dishonorable cha racter to the Military Committee.] Mr. SPEIGHT remarked that he had not accused the I am opposed, said Mr. E., to the commitment of this bill, and of the amendment of the Committee of the Whole |