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On motion of Mr. CAMBRELENG, the House, by general consent, took up, on their final passage, the engrossed bills before mentioned.

The bill making appropriations for the support of the army for the year 1837 was read a third time and passed.

The bill making appropriations for the current expenses of the Indian department, &c., having been read a third time, and the question being on its final passage

[H. of R.

feared, then, that these contractors will hasten the passage, and limit its expenses, to the wrong and suffering of the Indians, men, women, and children, committed to their charge? It is their removal which the Government demands; that accomplished, it takes no further thought for them; they will be given over to the tender mercies of the contractors. These consequences are to be apprehended from the character of the present scheme of Indian removals.

But (said Mr. G.) we have information on this topic, Mr. GRENNELL said he had not intended to address and are not left to conjectures, to vague apprehensions, the House on this bill. He knew it would pass. But, nor to any deductions drawn from the love of gain so since the rejection of the amendment offered by the gen- common among men. We have such information as tleman from North Carolina, [Mr. WILLIAMS,] he had, should at least put us on our guard, and admonish us on reflection, deemed it to be his duty to vote against the against a plan of Indian emigration so liable to abuse, so bill, and for reasons which he would briefly state. It fruitful of evil He referred to an account, given in provides for the removal of several tribes of Indians to the a letter published in an Arkansas paper, which was read distant West; and, in order to prevent great public evil, yesterday, of the condition of an emigrating party of the amendment proposed that no Indian should hereafter Creeks, on their way to their allotted territory in the be removed from the east to the west side of the Missis- West. It had very properly been brought to the atsippi by contract. If (said Mr. G.) this provision had tention of the House by the gentleman from Vermont, been adopted, forbidding the removal of bands by bar. [Mr. EVERETT.] None could hear, without emotion, gains with individuals for a stipulated sum per head, and its shocking details of the helpless and hopeless sufferit were made the duty of the Executive to effect it by ings of those Indians. Their journey was in a cold and officers of the Government, whose gains should neither inclement season. Multitudes, it is said, were destitute be increased nor diminished by the service or the man- of comfortable clothing, barefooted, and in rags; numner of its performance, the bill would be less objection-bers pining with sickness, or dying on the road; while

able.

This bill (said Mr. G.) does not specify the manner nor the terms on which this great operation is to be performed. But we know what has been the course of the Government in the recent removal of large bands of the Creek nation, and a different process and different terms are not to be expected, unless prescribed by Congress. The present appropriation had been based upon estimates from the Department, for the removal of Indians and subsistence on their passage, by contract, at the price $28 50 per head. Such had been, and was still to be, the system of removal. He desired a change of that system. In this great process of Indian emigration, the peace and honor of the nation were involved. The tribes named in the bill, he knew, were to go from their ancient inheritance, the homes and graves of their forefathers. This was settled. A large portion of the Creeks had already been transferred to their western abode, and the remnant of that tribe were soon to follow. Of the emigrated party, some had been in arms against us. Those remaining are in alliance with us, and, in conjunction with our army, are hunting a handful of Seminoles through the hammocks and everglades of East Florida.

About 5,000 in number, this band of Creeks is to be removed under the provisions of the bill, in the manner their brethren have been. Mr. G. said he did not claim that a distinction should be made between one tribe and another, or one portion of a tribe and another. Nor was it with any reference to the previous conduct or relations of the tribes towards our citizens that be urged a change in the system of Indian removals. He insisted that these should be effected in a manner just and merciful; and the Government was bound to do this by every principle which should characterize a civilized and Christian people.

The mode of removal by contract, if liable to abuse, is unworthy of a people of our character and resources, and should never be adopted from any notion of economy; and that it is so liable must be obvious from the very nature of the system. You bargain with individuals to transport and subsist, on the long passage, bands of savages, for a specified sum per head, for each member of a family or tribe. And what is to be expected of the contractor? What are his temptations? The more cheaply he can support them, and the shorter the journey, the greater will be his profits. Is it not to be

the sad procession, men, women, and children, were hurried forward by their contractor-masters with unfeeling severity and speed.

wo.

Now, sir, these things come to us from the very scene of the transaction. There is no apparent motive to falsify in the story. False statements would easily be detected. Our own citizens give us the heart-chilling narrative, and it stands uncontradicted; and I am led to believe not half the tale of wrong and suffering has been told; for Indians have poor means to make known their griefs. They have no newspaper press to proclaim them to the world, and few friends fearless enough to speak for them to the Government and the country. Otherwise, we might hear of them still sadder tales of If the Government can suffer them no longer to remain within the limits of the States, it is bound to remove them in the most humane manner, and to provide guards against all abuse of the removing power. There should be left no temptation to the removing agents to withold proper supplies, or to hasten the progress of the bands, regardless of comforts, health and life. And here was the place to secure to them the last offices of mercy and justice, in their reluctant departure from their ancient homes. On Congress, not the Executive, should devolve this protecting power. I have suggested the course fittest, in my judgment, to be pursued. Responsible officers, civil or military, should have the charge of this difficult and delicate operation; and we may have good assurance of their fidelity. Emigrating Indians who have complained of the severity of contractors have spoken well of officers of the army, disin. terested as they were in the results of the measure of removal. It might cost the Government more to remove by its own officers than by the intervention of contractors; and I think it ought to cost more than had been paid to the latter. The expense is quite a minor affair. It is impossible, under such contracts, to avoid imposition. The best men cannot always be found to perform this service, and those who are determined to make a profitable job, at any sacrifice to the emigrating savage, would offer to contract for less than the just and humane man. This is the common course of things, attested by all observation and experience; and hence the necessity of a change on the ground of humanity.

But there are in this matter considerations of public policy that cannot be disregarded. We are remo

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ving the tribes from the east, to a country far west of the Mississippi, and we place them in one great community of savages. Some go by direct coercion, and some in fetters; and perhaps this severity cannot be avoided, if the policy of the Government is to be carried out. They will be a fierce and and powerful race. Their removal, then, should be effected in a manner to leave in their mind and memory as few causes of irritation as possible. They will not discriminate between the injuries inflicted by acts of the Government and those proceeding from an abuse of power in the hands of its agents, but will lay up the wrongs endured from either. And who that

considers the instinct of savage passion can doubt that, on the slightest occasion, the treasured resentment for a thousand wrongs will burst forth in war and massacre upon our defenceless settlements?

It has been urged, in the course of the debate on this bill, that the Creeks, by making war on our citizens, had forfeited all benefits secured to them under the treaty. Sir, we are now discussing the claims of humanity, of enlightened policy in reference to Indian tribes. These always hold good, with or without treaties. This Creek treaty secured reservations of land to ninety principal chiefs and each head of a Creek family-valuable provisions to them, as was supposed. But it would seem that these benefits, to a great extent, have been wrested from them, through every variety of fraud and circumvention, by white men, citizens of the United States. War ensued. It has been denied that these frauds produced it; nay, their existence was once questioned. But the dreadful hostility is to be traced to these wrongs, as its primary and principal cause. Such is now the general admission. And, it is true, it was marked with all the atrocities incident to a savage conflict-plunder, burning, and carnage. In view of these facts, gentlemen have asked if all our feelings of compassion are reserved for the suffering Indians, and if we have none for suffering whites. As if a just concern for a tribe of Indians, men, women, and cnildren, in their final passage to their new domain, was incompatible with a kind protective sympathy and care for those unfortunate families of our citizens who have fled or fallen before the tomahawk and knife of the savage.

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[FEB. 2, 1837.

cause should have been laid before this Government, and the Executive would, or should, have taken instant measures to redress them, to do them justice, and to detect and expose the men, high or low, who had defrauded them. We are, however, to consider that the Indians know nothing of the science of diplomacy. They mistake their remedies. They have no agent, of their race, near this Government, to make known their grievances, to remonstrate against oppression, injustice, and outrage, committed by its citizens; no press to speak for them to the world. Goaded, disappointed, and defrauded, in a matter of property, they know not how to claim right and justice of the distant Government, nor to institute the slow process of negotiation; but they think only of revenge. Nor are they careful to seek out the individual perpetrators of the wrong, but, with sudden fury, fall upon the race to which their oppressors belong, and indiscriminate vengeance is the consequence.

On account of the war, then, so waged by these untaught savages-children of Nature-gentlemen are to regard all the privileges solemnly guarantied to them by treaty as forfeited; and not only so, it seems to be thought good enough for them to be dragged to the West in any way a body of contractors may think most easy and profitable. Certainly the subject has been discussed as if the removal was, and ought to be, a war operation. And if severity and suffering ensued, it was no more than the Indians deserved for their barbarities. The crime and cruelties of a few warriors are to forfeit the kindly regards of our nature for the feeble, the helpless, and innocent beings of the tribe. No, sir, suffering and helplessness and innocence here give no occasion for sympathy! I cannot entertain these views or feelings, but I have a deep conviction that we owe it to public peace and policy, to ourselves as an enlightened, powerful, and Christian nation, transacting with feeble, ignorant, and degraded tribes of men, to exercise mercy in this last act of putting them away from us forever.

Mr. ALFORD asked the indulgence of the House to give his views in relation to this subject of the removal of the Indians, which seemed to him to have elicited in this House a sort of sickly sympathy. He came here as an opponent to the present administration, but he felt constrained to support the policy of the Government in this one of its most important measures-of removing the Indians.

He knew something of the Creek Indians; he came from the frontier, and he knew well how their suffer

Indians as prisoners under his own immediate charge, but he had had no part either in their removal or in the speculations which had been made. But he was well acquainted with their circumstances and their sufferings, from his own observation.

Sir, this Creek nation are subdued, have submitted; they are at our mercy; and I frankly and strenuously maintain that, notwithstanding their recent hostility and outrage, this Government owes it to its own character, and to the soundest policy, to remove them to their Western territory in a peaceful and humane manner, and not in a spirit of vengeance. Sympathy for the sufferers by Indian warfare! Who does not feel it? Forings had been brought upon them. He had held these myself, I aver that every page in the early history of my native State, and especially of that part of it from which I come, has taught me lessons of sorrow and sympathy for the victims of savage hostility that can never be effaced from my heart. But I cannot suffer such emotions to mislead my judgment on a grave question of legislation between us and these tribes. Nor would I deal with them as we might justly do with a civilized nation which, in contempt of treaties, had made war upon us. This Creek war on their part was without justifiable cause. But, I ask, did this Government, or any department of it, take care that the nation should have the full benefit of the reservations of land secured by the treaty? Is this Government wholly clear in this matter? Did we, in the true spirit and design of the treaty, fulfil it on our part? Was our conduct towards them in this matter perfectly guardian and paternal? And shall we take advantage of their infraction of the treaty for such cause and under such wrong, and make it the ground and occasion, not only of denying to them all its provisions, but of a violent and forcible removal, or expulsion at the point of the bayonet? True, their

These poor Indians, as they were termed, were better, or fully as well, clad as any ladies in Washington city. They had invaded the frontier of Georgia, murdered our women and our children, and clothed themselves in the muslins and the fine linen rescued from the burning ruins of Roanoke. When he heard these appeals made on this floor, his mind reverted to his own people, who deserved the sympathy of the House more than the savage Indian. What were the facts to sustain these charges of inhumanity on the part of the contractors? A letter from the West. By whom written? God only knew. Who vouched for the truth? It was taken for granted.

Mr. A. replied to the remarks which had been made by several gentlemen in relation to the speculations in the Creek nation. The people of Georgia and Alabama had undoubtedly participated in these speculations, in

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common with the people of all the States of the Union, so far as his knowledge went. But the fault lay in the treaty itself, that opened the door to these false speculations. The sin of these speculations ought not to be visited on the Georgians and Alabamians alone. Mr. A. entered into details in relation to the Creek war, and the causes which he considered brought it about. He contended that the Indian was the aggressor; that the tomahawk was first raised by him against the white man, and not by the white man against him. He believed, however, that these land stealers had been instrumental in bringing on the war, and they consisted of citizens of every State in the Union. The Government ought so to have projected the treaty that these frauds could not have crept in. The President should have carried out that part of his policy which rejected Indian reservations. As to the removal of the Indians, he thought they ought to be removed, and he thought that the present manner of their removal was the best. The contractors had done that which the agents of the Government could not do, and he hoped the bill would pass.

[H. OF R.

been fanned by designing men, and that with a hope of putting a stop to the investigation now going on."

To this he would add that the fact was supported by three of the gentlemen from Georgia who had addressed the House, [Mr. Dawson, Mr. GLASCOCK, and Mr. ALFORD,] and in much stronger terms than he had used.

He had said yesterday, on the introduction of the Fort Gibson letter, that he brought no charge against the Government, except for supineness. He thought now that the exception was too limited. He requested the Clerk to read an article from the Creek document. It was the earnest appeal from the chiefs of the Creek nation to their great father the President, imploring that, in mercy, he would not subject them to be removed by contract, and more especially by land-speculating contractors. He would then leave it to the House to say what was the just responsibility of the Govern "TUCKABATCHEE TOWN,

ment.

January 14, 1836.

"To our Father the President:
"Your agent, Colonel Hogan, has just visited our town,
and communicated to us the welcome news that the dis-
position we had made of the twenty-three sections, that
were given to the Creek tribe, has met your approba-
tion. As we have heretofore informed you that we were
preparing to quit the land of our nativity, and seek a new
home in the far-distant West, we again take the liberty
of advising with our great father on this subject; believ
ing, as we do, that our great father has ever been dis-
posed to render us all the facilities that are in his power;
and as the day we have set to commence removing is
fast approaching, and as we are anxious to go with as lit-
tle trouble to the Government as possible, we again be-
seech our great father to exercise towards us that same
bumane and friendly care that has heretofore character-
ized his administration.

[The above is a mere outline of Mr. A's observations.] Mr. GRENNELL remarked that the gentleman [Mr. ALFORD] had no occasion to apologize; the stillness which had prevailed in the House, the silence with which he had been listened to, was an honorable testimony paid to his eloquence, and a proof of the gratification with which he had been heard; but he (Mr. G.) must beg to differ with the honorable gentleman. He, [Mr. ALFORD,] coming fresh from such scenes of blood, had painted in glowing colors the atrocities of the ruthless savage, which he himself had witnessed; but he is wrong (said Mr. G.) in supposing that I am an advocate of the savage Indian. Mr. G. proceeded to observe that he was not an advocate of the savage, nor had he sought to palliate his atrocities. But he (Mr. G.) was an advocate of Christian forbearance; he was an advocate for treating the Indian, not with a cruel vengeance, in return for bloodshed and atrocities, which he (Mr. G.) did not deny, and which he was not disposed in any way to justify or excuse. He was opposed only to the principle of returning evil for evil; and in so speaking, in thus desiring a mild and gentle and just policy to be pursued toward the Indian, no gentleman was justified in charging him with sickly sympathy, or in imputing to him the charge of being an advocate of brutality, ferocity, and injustice, when he advocated clemency, mercy, and forgiveness. Mr. EVERETT said he desired to set himself right before the House, and particularly with the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. ALFORD] who had addressed the House to-day. That gentleman had misunderstood a part of his remarks of yesterday. Had he have heard the explanation then given to his colleague, [Mr. Daw-line of march, and go without a murmur; but we fear, BON,] there would have been no occasion for some of his references to those that had preceded him. [Mr. E. repeated the explanation.]

Mr. E. said that, when up yesterday, he had been asked by the gentleman from Georgia on his right [Mr. HOLSEY] for the evidence of the fact that the frauds on the Creeks were a cause of their hostilities. He had then referred the gentleman, in general terms, to the documents before the House, and particularly to the Shorter letters. He had since looked into the Creek documents, laid on the table at the last session. He had turned down some leaves, but would read only a single passage. It was from a letter from our removing agent, Mr. J. B. Hogan, to the War Department, of February 1, 1836.

"I have no doubt but the Indians have been most grossly sinned against; that they are hostile I have never be lieved; but that they have ample cause of complaint I do know; and I verily believe that this excitement has

"We have, in our former communications, spoken to our father of the new method of emigrating his Creek children by contract. We hope, by introducing this subject to his consideration, he will not consider us as being too strenuous or importunate on this point, as it is one of vital importance to us. When we came to the determination to never again rekindle our council fire on the eastern side of the Mississippi, it was under the belief that we were to be removed under the superintendence of Colonel Hogan. And we now say to you, in the undisguised language of sincerity, that our people are opposed to, and protest being removed by, the present em. igrating company, but beseech our great father to say to our people that they can go, as they formerly expected to go, with Colonel Hogan, and under his immediate control, and we vouch that our people will take their

unless the plan of emigrating is changed, our people will be found lingering behind in a state of degradation for years to come, for a large majority of the nation have already expressed their determined opposition to the present contractors.

Our peo

"Our belief is that the present contractors cannot remove us with that same ease, attention, and liberality, that we so fondly anticipated under the management of Colonel Hogan, who, by his gentlemanly deportment, has succeeded in gaining our entire confidence. ple all know him, and profess an ardent desire to go with him, but protest against going with a company of specu lating contractors, who have recently extended their company and taken in new partners, who are too well known to us. And as this company have not the interest of the Government in view, we believe the health, comfort, and interest of the Indians will never be con sulted, but that all their arrangements will be conducted for their own good and pecuniary benefit.

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"As the Government has ever professed and exercised a fraternal care and anxiety for our welfare, and has promised to aid us in emigrating in the safest and most comfortable way, we believe that the difference that might be saved by the contract, if any, should weigh nothing when compared with the immense advantages that would result. If our people were told that they should be carried off, as they have heretofore been done, under the superintendence of men whose only duty would be to economize on behalf of the United States, and at the same time afford the best attention to the Indians.

"If our great father will change the plan of emigrating to the old and original method, he shall have our lasting thanks and prayers for his happiness, and our undivided effort to effect a speedy removal of all our people. But if he still says we must go with the present contractors, we must submit, but we can give no pledges that all our people will start, nor can we say how many will go; but place us under the entire management of our friend, Colonel Hogan, and we will do our best to get all off with us.

"We now wish to again call the attention of our great father to the lands belonging to Indians, who have died since their lands were certified; and we request that the heirs, in all such cases, may be permitted to sell and certify the land, as they generally get nothing when sold under an administration.

"Permit us now to call our great father's attention to a promise made by our great father the President, when we were in Washington city, closing the last treaty with the Government. It was then promised to us, for our influence in making the treaty, to give each of us, at some convenient time, the sum of one thousand dollars. This promise was made in presence of friends Colonel William C. King and the honorable Samuel W. Mardis. As we are now bringing all our matters to a close, we wish our great father to say to us whether we may still calculate on receiving the same.

"This letter is directed to our father the President, as we want it to meet his own eye. We now close, and hope to receive an immediate answer, and tender the President, our great father, our best wishes for his health and happiness.

"And subscribe ourselves his children."

[Signed by 22 chiefs, &c.]

After which, the question was taken, and the bill passed.

The engrossed bill making appropriations for the support of the army of the United States for the year 1837 was read a third time and passed.

Mr. CAMBRELENG moved to suspend the rule, to go into committee on the bill making appropriations for the naval service for the year 1837.

Mr. W. THOMPSON called for the yeas and nays on that motion; which were ordered, and were: Yeas 132, nays 23.

So the rule was suspended.

NAVY APPROPRIATION BILL.

On motion of Mr. CAMBRELENG, the House resolv. ed itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, (Mr. PATTON in the chair,) on the bill making appropriations for the naval service for the year 1837.

Mr. CAMBRELENG explained that the principal increase in this bill above that of last year was in conse. quence of the equipping the exploring expedition; besides this, there was an appropriation for fitting out the ship of the line Pennsylvania and two sloops of war. The first clause was read, as follows:

"For pay of commissioned, warrant, and petty officers, and of seamen, $2,434,886."

[FEB. 2, 1837.

Mr. JARVIS said that as in the first item was included a part of the expense of the exploring expedition, which seemed about to be carried to an extent which he did not think necessary, or that the country would justify, he should move a reduction of it. He had been taken by surprise, for he had understood that the civil and dip. lomatic appropriation bill would be taken up to-day, and he had left his estimates for the reduction at home. He would, however, venture to move a reduction of $150,000 in the estimates for the exploring expedition, comprised in this and some other items, of which the pay would be about one third; and before the bill was brought into the House he should be able to ascertain the exact reductions which were necessary, and would correct the bill accordingly, provided the committee agreed with him in opinion upon the expediency of di minishing the expenditure.

These

Mr. J. said he objected to the employment of so large a vessel as the frigate Macedonian on the exploring expedition, on account of her unfitness for the purpose and the great increase of expense. He said we ought not to think so highly of ourselves as to suppose that we could not profit by the experience of other nations, and went on to recapitulate the scale of the exploring expe ditions of Great Britain and France. He adduced the testimony of Captain Cook, who, before he departed upon his third expedition, that ended so fatally to him. self, bequeathed, as a legacy to the world, his opinions on this subject. That great navigator contended that large vessels were unfit for the business; that the vessels must be of a light draught of water; of a construction that would take the ground easily, and that might be hove down whenever and wherever it might be neces sary to examine their bottoms. The vessels he recom. mended were the north-country colliers, of from four bundred and fifty to three hundred tons burden. were the description of vessels in which he had per formed his two voyages, and was about to undertake a third; and he distinctly says that a forty-gun ship would be too large. Yet we are about to send out a frigate mounting forty-nine guns. He repeated the assertion of Cook, that no captain could discharge his duty as the head of an exploring expedition in a vessel of this de scription without too great hazard to the safety of his ship and of his crew. It might be urged that increased experience had shown that Cook was in error; but, s far was this from being the fact, it was well known tha the latest expeditions of France and Great Britain ha been performed by still smaller vessels. The Chanti cleer was only about two hundred and fifty tons, and had between fifty and sixty men; and the Astrolabe, of whos voyage so splendid an account had been published by the French Government, was only a corvette, with crew consisting of seventy-nine persons, including off cers and men of science. The whole number of her sc entific corps consisted of two surgeons of the navy an one draughtsman, while ours was to consist of eightee persons, which (Mr. J. said) he had no doubt would b found equal in number, if not in science, to the corps savans that Bonaparte took with him to Egypt.

The officers of the navy, (Mr. J. said,) so far as he ha been able to ascertain their views, agreed with him opinion-high and low, young and old; however the might differ on other points, all seemed to think that frigate was not the vessel to be sent. If the squad re were composed of small vessels, the accidental loss one of them would not endanger the result of the exp dition; the crew might, without inconvenience, be di ded among the remainder; but if the frigate were meet with an accident, and her three hundred men we to be so divided, they would be so crowded on boa the small vessels as to force them to return home, a the whole object in view would be defeated. Mr.

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concluded by saying that he was desirous that the expedition should be crowned with success, but he was fearful it would only be covered with ridicule unless a change was made in its organization; and he therefore hoped that his motion would prevail.

Mr. CAMBRELENG hoped the motion would be adopted. He concurred entirely with the view taken by the gentleman from Maine, [Mr. JARVIS,] and he felt it his duty to state his concurrence in those views. He had made inquiries of many practical men, and some of the highest officers of the navy, on this subject; and, from the information he had obtained from them, he was perfectly satisfied that the view taken by the gentleman from Maine was correct, and he hoped the House would concur in it, and reduce the appropriation.

Mr. PHILLIPS said, if the leading friends of the administration, in view of the present posture of the question, in view of the present expectation of the world, in view of the responsibility assumed by the President, were disposed to interpose any obstacle to the completion of this expedition, upon them be the responsibility of its failure; for fail it would, if this motion should prevail.

Mr. CHAMBERS, of Kentucky, cited the law passed last session authorizing the President to employ a sloop of war, and such other smaller vessels as might be necessary for the expedition, appropriating $150,000 for that purpose.

It

Mr. JARVIS remarked that the gentleman from Massachusetts seemed to regard this as a party measure. was no such thing. It was one in which the honor and renown of the nation were concerned. Mr. J. denied that he was opposed to the expedition; on the contrary, he wished it fitted out with credit to the public, in a manner to insure its complete success, and to redound to the honor and fame of every officer employed. His proposition was made to that end. He stated he had received the opinions of many officers of the navy, of great skill and judgment, and they were all confirmatory of his own as to the kind of vessels that ought to be employed.

Mr. ADAMS thought the gentleman from Maine, the Chairman of the Committee on Naval Affairs, had done the President and heads of Departments injustice. Mr. A. entreated gentlemen to withdraw the motion to reduce the appropriation. He did not consider it too large for the objects to be obtained. He would vote three times the amount, if called upon to do so, because it was his hope that this expedition would shed honor on the American character, instead of holding it up to the ridicule of the world.

Mr. ROBERTSON said that, before he could vote with propriety for the proposed appropriation for the naval service, he should like to be informed what portion of the aggregate sum was designed for the exploing expedition. Mr. R. inquired, further, of the chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means, whether it was his intention to urge an appropriation for completing the equipment of the Pennsylvania, after being apprized that the Committee on Naval Affairs unanimously disapproved the object of that appropriation?

Mr. CAMBRELENG replied, by citing the following

estimates:

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For medical and hospital stores For ordnance and ordnance stores For contingencies

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$4,000 00

7,000 00 16,000 00

Mr. C. also cited some other estimates connected with the exploring expedition, amounting to upwards of 300,000 dollars. He suggested to the gentleman from Maine not to press his motion at that time, but to withdraw it, and renew it in the House.

Mr. C. then adverted to the great scale on which the expedition was projected, and contended, with the gentleman from Maine, that the object he had in view was to insure its success. By sending a large frigate, she ran the hazard of being dashed to pieces on the rocks; and the expense to the country would exceed a million of dollars, if fitted out on the plan proposed. He expressed himself warmly in favor of the objects of the expedition, and reiterated that his support of the motion of Mr. JARVIS was to prevent the expedition from being shipwrecked, as it inevitably would be, in the opinion of magnificent scale proposed. many men of skill and judgment, if it embarked on the

Mr. VINTON said that it belonged to the Legislature to enact laws, and to the Executive to carry them into effect. This line of duty is so distinct and so proper in itself, that a very strong case ought to exist to induce the Legislature to assume the responsibility of taking into its own hands the execution of a law. Congress, at its last session, passed a law directing the President of the United States to send a surveying and exploring expedition to the South Seas; and the present appropriation is asked for, as necessary to defray the expense of the expedition, according to the plan adopted by the Executive. The chairman of the Naval Committee [Mr. JARVIS] is dissatisfied with that plan, and wishes to have vessels sent of a different character from those provided for the service. To effect his object, he has moved a reduction of the sum estimated by the Secretary of the Navy to be necessary for this purpose. He says, in support of his motion, that the Executive, in providing a frigate for the service, instead of a sloop of war, which he [Mr. JARVIS] is of opinion ought to be sent, has been govern. ed by the advice of landlubbers. He therefore asks this House to interfere, and reverse the decision of the Executive. Mr. V. said he did not know whose advice the Executive had followed, or who were his advisers in this matter; but, living as he did in the State of Ohio, and far in the interior, and knowing nothing of sea service, he was one of those to whom the gentleman's appellative of landlubber would apply; and it was for that reason, which the gentleman had furnished to his hand, that he would not vote for the plan proposed by him. Mr. V. said that what he had said of himself was true of a very large majority of the House. A very great ma jority of us come from without the limits of tide water, and do not and cannot be expected to possess that practical knowledge which would enable us to decide upon the expediency of sending a frigate on this voyage of exploration. The motion and argument of the gentle. man came to this: that, as the Executive has been influenced by the advice and opinions of landsmen, in the plan of fitting out this expedition, he therefore comes here, and calls upon another set of landsmen to overrule the Executive, and direct him how it shall be fitted up. The gentleman further says, that one of the small vessels built for this service "sails like a tub." If that be so, the duty and responsibility of inquiring into that matter, and of providing another ship, belongs to the Secretary of the Navy; but certainly the gentleman cannot expect this House to go into such an inquiry, and decide whether ship A or ship B shall be sent.

We have passed the law directing the exploring expedition to be sent, and, for one, be wished the responsibility of its proper execution to rest upon the Execu

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