whilst his county has more than a thousand voters in it, the principal part of the taxes are paid by about two hundred; and yet the members of the House of Delegates will always find themselves compelled to obey the wishes of the eight hundred who constitute the majority, rather than the minority, who pay the greater part of the taxes. And any member obeying the instructions of the minority, in opposition to those of the majority, would be sure to lose his seat at the next election.

I have only, in conclusion, to notice the proposition for a compromise, made by the venerable gentlemen from Loudoun, for the purpose of remarking, that I am opposed to it; for I fear, if it prevails, there will be constant jealousies and dissentions betwixt the two Houses; and I cannot willingly give my vote for a proposition, subversive of the great fundamental principles of Republican Government, viz: that the majority shall always govern.

Mr. Moore having concluded his remarks, he moved for the rising of the Committee; when

Mr. Doddridge enquired of Mr. Taylor, whether it was probable the difficulty to which he adverted, would be removed in time for the meeting of the Convention to

morrow?

Mr. Taylor answered, that he presumed it would. He had intimated his purpose to the senior member of the delegation; and he should to-morrow send in to the President, his letter of resignation. He hoped his colleagues would be able, by to-morrow, to have the vacancy supplied.

The Committee then rose, and the House adjourned.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 1829.

The Convention was opened with prayers by the Rev. Mr. Lee of the Episcopal Church, and the President took the Chair.

The President laid before the Convention a letter from Robert B. Taylor, Esq. (a Delegate from the Norfolk District,) which was read as follows:

SIR,-Many of my constituents have instructed me to support the proposed plan of apportioning representation, with regard to white population and taxation combined; and I have reason to believe that a large majority of the people of my District concur in the desire, expressed in those instructions.

It is due to myself to prevent all misrepresentation of my official conduct. I was elected to this body, with the full knowledge of my constituents, that I favored reforms in the existing Constitution. I came here untrammelled by instructions; and restrained by no pledges. I am unfortunate, indeed, in this, that my opinions do not harmonize with those of my constituents; but I have disappointed no expectation; violated no engagement; betrayed no trust.

Having always believed, and maintained, that the value of representative Government mainly depends on the principle, that representation is only a mean, whereby the deliberate will of the constituent body is to be expressed and effectuated, no act of mine shall ever impair the principle. Had my constituents instructed me on some matter of mere expediency; or required me to perform any thing, which was possible; it would have afforded me pleasure to testify with how cheerful a submission, I would give effect to their opinions, rather than my own. But they ask what is impossible. They require me to violate my conscience and the sentiment of filial devotion, which I owe to my country.

Believing, as I conscientiously do, that the measure I am instructed to support, is hostile to free institutions; destructive to equality of right among our citizens, and introductive of a principle, that a minority, on account of superior wealth, shall rule the majority of the qualified voters of the State, I should be guilty of moral treason against the liberty of my native land, if I allowed myself to be the instrument by which this mischief is effected. In this state of mind, by executing the wishes of my constituents, I should justly subject myself to their reproaches, for my baseness, and to the more insufferable reproaches of my own conscience.

One mode only remains to reconcile my duties to my constituents, to the higher and more sacred duties I owe to myself, and my country. It is to resign the office, which they conferred upon me; and thereby to enable my colleagues to select a successor, who more fortunate than I am, may give effect to their wishes, without violating any sentiment of private and public duty.

Allow me to ask that this letter may have a place on your Journal. Forgive the feeling, which prompts this request. If any eye shall hereafter read my humble name, I wish that the same page, which records my retirement from your service, may also record the motives (mistaken perhaps, but not unworthy,) which occasioned it.

I leave the Convention, Sir, with sentiments of profound respect, and veneration for the virtue and talent, which ennoble and adorn it. My heart will still attend your counsels; and I shall not cease to supplicate the Almighty, that he may so inspire and direct them, that Virginia may be regenerated, united, free and happy.

I have the honor to be, your obedient servant,

JAMES MONROE, Esq.

President of the Convention.

ROBERT B. TAYLOR.

On Mr. Mercer's motion, the letter of Gen. Taylor was laid on the table. Mr. Grigsby, of the Borough of Norfolk, has been elected by the rest of the Delegates as a Delegate to serve in the place of Robert B. Taylor, Esq. resigned.

The standing order having been read, the Convention resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Constitution, Mr. Powell in the Chair.

Messrs. Scott and Green made some explanations in relation to the remarks presented by Mr. Moore of Rockbridge on Friday, on the improvement of the James River. Mr. Scott referred to the Journals of the House of Delegates, to shew that on various occasions members from the region of country below the Ridge and in the Valley had voted with the West for objects of internal improvement, even when their own country was not specially interested.

Mr. Green detailed the circumstances of the compromise, by which the members from the lower country were induced to consent to a larger appropriation for the James River improvement, than they would otherwise have done, in consequence of a stipulation in the act for that object, that the tolls should not be raised until the rate of transportation was lowered.

Mr. Moore explained on the same subject; shewing that he had voted for internal improvements which were on the West or East of the mountains. He disclaimed all sectional feelings, however other gentlemen might entertain them.

Mr. Leigh hoped that the Committee would rise, to give a gentleman on this floor (Mr. Giles) an opportunity of addressing them to greater advantage hereafter; his indisposition this morning was aggravated by the state of the weather. He said besides, that there were at least five gentlemen absent. He said he was perfectly willing to withdraw his motion, if any other gentleman was prepared and willing to take the floor.

Mr. Doddridge repeated the same sentiment, and hoped that some gentleman would rise, if ready to address the Committee.

But no one rising for that purpose, Mr. Doddridge made a motion for the Committee to rise, which was carried without opposition; and then Mr. Powell reported that the Committee had, according to order, taken into consideration the subject referred to them, but had adopted no resolution thereon.

And then, on Mr. M'Coy's motion, the Convention adjourned until Monday, eleven o'clock.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 1829.

Convention met at 11 o'clock, and was opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Horner of the Catholic Church.

According to the standing order, the House went into Committee of the Whole, Mr. Powell in the Chair.

The following is the substance of Mr. Giles' remarks, taken down by a stenographer, in his own language, and corrected by Mr. Giles himself.

Mr. GILES said: After all the subjects of this debate have been so fully elaborated, and thoroughly exhausted, it may be deemed presumption in him to attempt a further elucidation of them; repetitions too, might be deemed intrusive on the time, and even wanting in respect to the intelligence of the Committee. Notwithstanding these discouragements, he felt impelled by an irresistable sense of duty, to extend the debate still further, not with a vain hope of throwing new interesting lights on the subject; nor with a hope of obtaining a lean majority. A lean majority on either side would be a poor triumph of friends over friends; and still more so, on the affirmative than negative side of the proposed amendments to the Constitution, and would be better calculated to attract the distrust than the confidence of our constituents. But his principal inducement for continuing the debate, was a faint glimmering hope of approaching nearer to unanimity in whatever measures may be adopted, than we seem to be at present, from any indications now before us. Unanimity would, indeed, be an effect worthy of this great occasion, and worthy the sacrifice when he considered every individual member called upon to make, to obtain the object of the Con

vention. Without some approach to unanimity, he feared all our labours here, might be worse than unavailing. Why should we not approach this unanimity? All see that there are sufficient inducements to inake the best effort, and fortunately, not without the authority of great example on this occasion. The existing Constitution which we are called upon to examine, modify, or abolish, was produced by unanimity. Our forefathers were magnanimous enough, after a laborious investigation, conducted with the most ardent zeal, to agree to it by an unanimous vote. And why should not we follow their noble example? It was said that this unanimity, and this very Constitution were produced by a sense of danger; and were the effects of haste and alarm. He was sorry to hear this suggestion repeated, because it was unfounded. It is true that our forefathers did act in imminent peril, and under full sense of that peril, but it is not true, that the instrument they produced, was the effect of haste or alarm. Though they were highly sensible of the danger; it never disturbed the equanimity of their minds, during their whole proceedings. They went on coolly and dispassionately, notwithstanding the dangers that surrounded them, and the final result, was the production of this Constitution. This danger, far from being appalling, was viewed by them with sport, contempt, and even derision. He had been frequently told, that nothing was more common, than that the members should sportively jeer each other, with saying, we must hang all together, or be hung one by one. Is it possible, that any state of mind could have produced a stronger incentive to exert their best efforts, for arriving at the best results? Did not this state of mind afford the strongest incentives for calling into action every feeling of the heart, and every dictate of the head, to the perfection of their great work, with one united voice? They accordingly presented to us, the best Constitution that was ever presented to any people under the sun; accompanied too, with perfect unanimity. The history of their proceedings, will show that although, in the commencement of their discussion, there was as much difference of opinion amongst them, as amongst ourselves, and those opinions maintained with as much ardour and zeal; yet they nobly compromised all their differences, and came to an unanimous result. We are in a different situation. We are in a state of perfect security. No danger threatens us. We are perfectly free. Yes, Sir, perfectly free to indulge the wildest speculative visions of our imaginations in search of philosophical abstractions, to introduce into our fundamental laws for practical purposes. Whence arises this state of security? Surely from the patriotic and heroic labours which our venerable ancestors performed under different circumstances: We are so secure from the moral tendency of those fundamental laws, with which we we: blessed 54 years ago, that there is no fear that we shall hang one by one, even if we should refuse to hang all together. Although we are perfectly free from the apprehensions of personal injuries, we are not without the strongest inducements, to make us combine to use our best efforts in producing unanimity in our proceedings. Should we fail in the objects for which we are called together, we would lose the confidence of our constituents, and whatever political fame and standing we have acquired; and should disappoint the expectations of our fellow-citizens, and of the world.

He mentioned these circumstances, to show us the necessity of banishing all prejudices, passions, and prepossessions; and, if possible, to be unanimous in our results, whatever they may be. He begged to be permitted to remark, that he had been delighted with all the arguments presented to the Committee, not only on account of their elaborate researches, and their splendid display of talents, eloquence, and instruction; but on account of their honorable frankness and candour. This remark was intended to apply equally to both sides of the question. The whole debate appeared to him to have afforded a new and conspicuous example of the just celebrity which Virginia has obtained for morals and for principles. The arguments on both sides, were presented front to front, and with so little disguise, equivocation or evasion, that to form a just comparison of their respective merits, it was only necessary to re-view them in their state of confrontation. But, while he felt this pleasure at the progress of the argument, he could not avoid expressing the deepest regret, that a difference of local interests, should have interposed to interrupt this happy spirit, in conducting this discussion. Such local interests, however, do exist, and they are too important either to be overlooked or disregarded. To obliterate them, would seem to be impossible. This difference of interests consists in the unequal position of the slave property in this State, and this interest is so important, that the production of the labour of the slaves, forms the foundation of one third of the whole taxes of the State. Although confronted at the threshold by this unfortunate stumbling block, it was the duty of all to meet and subdue the difficulty, or to apply such remedy as would be acceptable to all.

The venerable gentleman from Loudoun, (Mr. Monroe,) thinks emancipation impossible, without the aid of the Federal Government; and, perhaps, it would not be possible even with that aid—an aid which, could it be had, surely would not be desirable to any. He hoped the venerable gentleman would excuse him for saying, that he did not see the precise applicability of his remarks to the precise subject un

der consideration, and he could not avoid saying, that his feelings were much excited at the mere suggestion of calling upon the Federal Government for aid in so delicate a question. What would be the effect of calling on the Federal Government, to aid us in the common, ordinary, inunicipal regulations of the State. Some gentlemen call for the aid of the General Government in the prosecution of Internal. Improvements. The venerable gentleman from Loudoun, thinks it may be required for the emancipation of our slaves, and says, "he even doubts if we were disposed to divide the State, whether we should be permitted to do so by the General Government." What will be the effects of all these dependencies on that Government? The effects must be the annihilation of all State rights-the destruction of the State Governments—and more, the amalgamation of a great miss of power in the Federal Government. Have gentlemen reflected on the tendencies of a vast momentum of power, collected in any hands, which are beyond their control? Is it not inevitable, that it must beat down the barriers of all political powers, which may be interposed to palsy its influence by division? The best we could hope under such an amalgamation, would be a consolidated despotism. This consummation could be desirable to none. He had merely made these general remarks with a view of protesting against the interference of the General Government, and of preventing their intrusion in the discussion before us, by disposing of them at this early period. Were it not for this important difference of sectional interests, he would indulge the most flattering hope that the Convention should be enabled to improve the condition of man, by adding to the great political lights heretofore shed on this State, and the whole world, by our venerated forefathers. He considered the science of politics yet in a state of infancy. While he observed the march of the human intellect, in bringing to perfection all the other arts and sciences, viewing with wonder the improvements which have been made in the last century, or perhaps still more in the last half century, he could not but observe, that the science of politics, had not kept pace in improvements with any of the other arts and sciences. The only effort at improvement, was the one originally adopted by the framers of our Constitution. This was only fifty-four years ago; a mere speck in the progress of time; and had introduced a new and just principle in the science of politics-one in direct hostility to the pre-existing basis on which all other Governments were founded. It opened a new era in the science of politics, and, he hoped, sincerely hoped, that our American statesmen would abandon that system which had so long prevailed, and had proved so destructive to the rights and liberties of the human race; and found a new science upon the great discoveries of our forefathers. We have not done so. We have rather retrograded to those principles which our forefathers had abandoned. We have gone back to imitate the British system, as far as regards practical, political economy, after having established the most happy and beautiful fundamental system of our own. And this is one cause why we have not added a new science to the existing political economy, suited to our great developements in fundamental principles. There is another cause. All other Governments were, as he conceived, founded on fraud and backed by force. The few who had by combinations usurped the rights of the many, and possessed themselves of all the proceeds of their productive labour, have employed all their means to prevent further improvements in the science of politics, to avoid the detection and exposure of the fraud, which was the foundation of their systems. We know it was their great object to prevent an examination of these subjects, and to such an extent did they carry their rigorous vigilance, that the first patriots, Hampden and Sydney, fell victims to their patriotic enquiries into the science of politics. These causes contributed to throw the science of politics back, and to prevent it from making its way under the influence of that march of intellect which pressed forward all the other sciences.

He should suppose it was the duty of this Convention, to turn their researches into political science. A great discovery had been made in opposition to former systems: that all the rights of Government are founded in the consent of man, and that consent is ascertained through the social compact, or, in other words, the written Constitution. There is a difference of opinion, however, in regard to the true characteristics of the social compact, and particularly in relation to the parties to it. In the origin and progress of the social compact, every member is a party to it; each representing his own individual interests, as his own sovereign, uninfluenced by the majority. At its completion, the parties become changed by the consent of all its members. The compact is then made to consist of only two parties, the governors and the governed; and whether the majority shall exercise the Government or not, or to what extent, must depend solely on the written compact. Gentlemen had imputed to the honorable gentleman from Orange, to whom he listened with great pleasure, the assertion, that a minority ought to govern, as well as a majority. This imputation had been extended too far, if he had rightly understood the gentleman from Orange. He did not understand that gentle:nan, as declaring, that a minority ought, in any case, to exercise active, affirmative legislation, but that a minority was sometimes invested with authority to legislate, in a negative capacity. A minority cannot rightfully govern, in any

case, but it is often used, as a fit instrument to prevent a majority from doing what it ought not to do. The rights of the majority depend solely upon the compact. It will be seen, there, how far a majority may govern, and how far it ought to be checked. Here we have a local interest, which is admitted by all to be applicable to peculiar sections of the State, but not to the whole of it. This local interest must be secured by provisions in the fundamental laws; if not, upon general principles, the majority would govern it. If it be improper that the majority should govern, where there is a particular, local interest, the minority should have a power of controlling the majority, so far as to afford protection to such particular, local interest. Such was the case in the Federal Government, as was illustrated by the gentleman from Orange; from whose lucid remarks he derived both pleasure and instruction. He took it for granted, that the majority had no rights but those that were vested in them by the compact. Under our written Constitution, or social compact, the science of politicts was divided into two parts. One great branch of the science, is that which relates to the organization of the fundamental laws. And the other branch is, that which relates to the policy to be observed by the practical government, as established by these laws. No effort has been yet made to enquire into these subjects, as distinct branches of political science. The American mind has been drawn from the contemplation of these subjects by imitation. The love of imitation is one of the strongest passions of the human mind; and instead of elaborating a new system, suited to our own discoveries, we have been led into the imitation of British systems of practical, political economy. Here, then, is a new field opened before us, for the extension of political science.

An example of this spirit of imitation, may be seen in the organization of the Executive of the United States. There we have exhibited the anomaly of an Executive, attached to a republican Legislature, having more monarchical than republican tendencies. We have thrown so much power and patronage into the hands of the Federal Executive, that we must see the danger which threatens us from its organization. Yet that Executive is now held up to us for our imitation. How this happened he could not perceive, if gentlemen had the same views of the organization of the Executive of the Federal Government, that he had, and the same views of the peculiar fitness of the Executive Government of Virginia, as it is now established to a republican form of Government. So far from abandoning the old system, and falling into the gulph of imitation, an error, the strongest of the natural propensities of man; we should call on those who may hereafter aid in amending the Federal Constitution, to follow the example of Virginia. If the Virginia system were transferred to the United States, it would be the best improvement that could be adopted. The events of the last four years must be sufficient to satisfy every gentleman, that instead of calling on us to imitate the Executive of the Federal Government, if that Government could be brought to imitate our system, it would be the most important amendment that could be devised in the formation of its organic laws.

The gentleman from Loudoun (Mr. Mercer) whose eloquence he had listened to with great pleasure, had pointed to the Executive Department, as one of the great defects in the present Constitution of Virginia. He was not so much surprised at the reference, as he was at the grounds upon which the gentleman had rested his objections. They were founded on a supposed want of responsibility. That want of responsibility should be alleged against it, Mr. G. said, attracted his wonder. If there was any responsibility in any Executive under the sun, it is in ours, as at present organized. The gentleman, therefore, has taken up his notions, without a sufficiently minute examination; for, in fact, the responsibility of the Virginia Executive, was the strictest that human wisdom could devise. What is the responsibility of the Executive? The Executive Council are required to keep a journal of their proceedings, which is signed by every member present.

The agent thus renders an account to his principal, under his own hand, which can always be referred to, as evidence of the manner in which his duties are fulfilled. What are the duties of the Governor? His accountability is as strict, though not as severe as that of the Council. He is at liberty to follow or refuse to follow the adIvice of the Council. He acts on his own responsibility; he is not bound by the Council. The journal shows his own acts also, and consequently his responsibility. How, then, is he screened from his own responsibility? This Executive, then, is wisely ordained. It is the wisest effort of the great genius of the writer of our Constitution, in making the whole Executive responsible to their electors, as connected with a republican Legislature. He had been struck with the remarks of the gentleman from Loudoun. (Mr. Mercer) and had wondered how a gentleman of such Intelligence should have fallen into such an error, as it appeared to him to be. He had felt it to be his duty to do away the imputation, not only from a sense of justice to the Council, but to this and to all nations. This Council had been in operation fifty-four years. If there had been any misrule, the gentleman could point it out. He invited gentlemen to attend to the condition of the Executive, not only at the