No. 159.

IN CONVENTION

December 14, 1867.

TESTIMONY

AND STATEMENTS ACCOMPANYING THE REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE SALT SPRINGS OF THE STATE.

On the 17th day of July, 1867, the Committee met and the following testimony was taken:

George Geddes, Superintendent of the salt springs, appeared and being sworn testified as follows:

The present wells and State machinery are capable of producing 8,467,200 bushels of salt annually.

Q. How do you account for the manufacture of over nine millions of bushels in 1862? A. The law which required salt to be dried. was not regarded, and the works were run later; sixteen wells were in use that year.

Q. Have you discovered any diminution in the quality or quantity of the brine? A. I have not; but the quality has improved. Q. If you had sufficient means at your disposal, how many bushels of salt would a proper development of the property furnish? A. About fifteen millions.

Q. What is the present strength of the brine? A. The maximum strength by the salometer is 74 degrees; 74 degrees yields 18 [CON. No. 159.]

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per cent of salt. We find that strength of water at 312 feet. My opinion is that the depth of the salt basin has not yet been reached, and that stronger water could be found by going deeper. A well 505 feet deep has been sunk, but it is not deep enough; they struck salt water at 312, and then pushed their pipe on to 505 and got nothing. The last well cost $6,000, at a depth of 312 feet; but I think I can now sink one I am at work on, the same depth, for $3,000, owing to using iron tubing; I think a well will produce 4,500 bushels of salt a day, allowing for waste of water &c.; upon reflection, I think I am too large in that statement; I think a good well, with water at 74 deg., ought to produce 420,000 bushels of salt a year; I have got four wells that will each produce that; the 11 other wells stand, some at 60 deg. and some at 54 deg.; those 11 wells will produce six millions; it would take 14 more wells of the best quality to make up 15 millions. We do not always strike salt water, but we think we have so narrowed down the territory that we can now strike salt water every time. We could not get water this year from the canal until the sixth of May; this has been a bad season thus far, but it will probably average yet the usual amount of good weather; we make the manufacturers take all the water the State can furnish each year up to the first of November; I think that, notwithstanding, we furnish all water we can get, yet the market has more to do with want of uniformity, than the want of facility to furnish; thus, if the demand is large and the price is high, the manufacturer will want water in November, and may produce one. million or more in November; there are at present 316 salt blocks on the Reservation; I have nothing to do with fixing the price of salt; obtained the price I communicated to the Convention from Mr. Barker.

Testimony taken before the Convention Committee on the salt springs of the State, at Syracuse, August 9th, 1867.

PRESENT-Mr. BELL, Chairman; and Messrs. COMSTOCK, HOUSTON, ROLFE, MCDONALD and PARKER.

Mr. De Wolf sworn and examined by Mr. Bell, says:

I have been deputy superintendent for fourteen years of the Salt Springs of the State. In 1858 there was inspected 7,033,219 bushels

of salt, as a general thing we commence furnishing water in April. In 1858 we began to inspect salt in January; that salt was made in 1857, we inspected in January about 64,000 bushels; in February following about 22,000 bushels; in March following about 46,000 bushels. We have no records to tell when we began to furnish brine that year; in Liverpool we can supply a little brine before we get water from the canal, but can in no other place. We cannot do so now in Liverpool, because of the steam works having recently burned up. In 1860, we inspected 5,593,449 bushels of salt; I presume we had as much brine in that year as in 1858, I can't account for the difference in the amount inspected in those years; in January of 1860, inspected 77,009 bushels; in February 56,000 bushels, and in March 60,000 bushels; in 1858, inspected a little in December; in November 1858, inspected 748,000 bushels; in December, 80,000: in 1860, inspected in November 698,000 bushels, and in December 48,000 bushels; in 1862, we inspected in January 64,000 bushels; in February 68,000, and in March 51,000 bushels; in November 1862, inspected 1,284,000, and in December of 1862, 368,000. Total inspection for 1862, 9,053,822 bushels; in 1863, we inspected in January 180,000 bushels, and in February 70,000 bushels, and in March 30,000 bushels. I will prepare, and submit to the committee this afternoon, a statement for the months of January, February and March, and November and December in each year from 1858 to 1866 inclusive.

Statement submitted and hereto annexed.

James Van Vleck, sworn and examined by Mr. Bell, says:

I am the engineer for the Superintendent of the salt springs. Have been since May 1865; by the former superintendent I was employed in sinking wells and looking after the machinery. We furnish brine to the solar works, beginning about 1st of March, some times last of February. The motive power used by us is water from the canal; I can't recollect distinctly the time we began in 1862, but about the 1st of March has been the time for years. The law for bids us to furnish brine to fine salt blocks during the months of December, January, February and March. As soon as canal opens we furnish the brine; the water is left in the levels of canal every year until about 1st of April, and we use that; it is drawn out on the 1st of April for repairing canal, and remains out three or four weeks. We draw water from Rome and Jordan sewers when we

need it. We are unable to pump in April on account of the water being out of the canal; I recollect only one year that we did at all, and I can't tell the year. We did use steam in Liverpool through the month of April, but the house burned down in December last. We could supply not more thanth part of the brine with the steam. We pumped from two small wells, we did that up to and including 1866. We now furnish about 1th of the brine by steam, but it has to be repumped by water power in order to be distributed. We do not furnish as much brine now for these reasons, to wit: we have ceased to use two wells at Liverpool; we have abandoned three wells on account of the weakness of the water. Have brought into use one well of more than an average strength, about 75 deg. The weakest well is about 52 deg., the best is 75 deg. We have five wells 74 or 75 deg.; the average strength of brine at Syracuse is 64 deg., and at Salina is 62 deg. We have fifteen wells in use now; the wells are capable of producing 40,600 bushels of salt daily, we run them every day after the canal is opened if we can get at them, There were seven wells I could not get at this year, until about 1st of June, on account of floods. We commence 1st of March, and do not run up to our full capacity. We do not furnish to the fine salt works because the law prohibits it until the 1st of April, we could, up to the 1st of April, were it not for the law. We stop furnishing brine the 1st of December in each year; about 40 gallons of our brine will make a bushel of fine salt, same to make a bushel of coarse salt. My opinion is we use a little mor brine to make a bushel of coarse salt, about 25 per cent more. This is on account of waste of water; we lose some water in our conduits. The conduits to fine salt are shorter, and hence they do not leak so much. The vats themselves leak some and make the most waste; we estimate 50 gallons for a bushel of solar salt. I have charge of sinking the wells; we are now, I think, making 40,000 bushels per day. The water we could pump in April by steam; we do not be cause we could not distribute it for want of canal water power. From the well we sunk last year, we will produce 500,000 bushels per season, and I expect to get that much more from the well we are now sinking; we expect as good water; by increasing the number of wells we could get 500,000 bushels per season from each well we should sink, I think-for that locality, the proper depth is 312 or 313 feet. The instruments we now use for showing strength of water, shows a less degree of strength than those we formerly used.

They were pronounced inaccurate by the chemist, and were therefore changed by Superintendent Smith. The difference is eight degrees; we are now pumping all the wells that are in any way fit for making salt. The practice has been to use no water less than 60 deg. in strength; it will not pay to use any weaker brine. The two wells abandoned at Liverpool, were the one 50 deg., and the other 52 deg. We now, (at this time) distribute to solar fields entirely, pursuant to the law. It is more profitable to the State to furnish to the fine salt works. I have not ascertained that any wells I have sunk, have diminished the supply from any other contiguous wells. From experiments I judge that they are not so affected.

George Geddes, sworn and examined, says:

I derived the information I gave in my report, regarding the price of salt, from the salt company; I meant the home price in Syracuse, on the dock where it is made; I so understood the answer. If the salt springs and their fixtures were owned by an individual or a company, I would regard it as judicious and expedient to lay out thirty or forty thousand dollars in sinking wells, and in new contrivances for distributing brine, and in furnishing stronger brine; I would not use brine weaker than 70 deg.; think I could get enough to make seven or eight million bushels a year of that brine for the sum named; the effect of this outlay would be to deliver the water at times more desirable for manufacturing; it should be made between May and October chiefly; it would tend to make salt cheaper, and hence, to send it further and secure and extend the market; I am very familiar with the making of salt and the operating of the springs; there is two months in the fall that the manufacturers do not take all the brine we can give them; I think the salt company make and sell more salt than there would be made were there no company; there are now four fine salt blocks running; the solar salt blocks require all the water we can give them.

Cross-examined:

I have heard the statement of Mr. Van Vleck, this forenoon; we can furnish brine for every day in the year at 40,320 bushels per day, but we only furnish for 210 days; the solar blocks are now making 40,000 bushels per day; we only made in 1865 about six millions, for the reason the manufacturers did not take the water; there was a strike of workmen; in 1866 we made no more salt than we did, because the makers would take no more water; I could have furnished more water.