the amendment, and call it one hundred and fortythree. Mr. KETCHAM-I remember one or two occasions, when the Legislature have been here for weeks, detained by reason of an inability to organize the House, because they were equally divided. I think it is rather important, therefore, that we make the proposed odd number in the amendment. I shall vote for any increased number not exceeding two hundred, if the proposition makes the body consist of an odd number of members. [intention to become citizens of the United States." The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. Masten, and it was declared lost. The SECRETARY then read the first division of the proposition of Mr. Merwin. Mr. RUMSEY-I propose to amend that proposition by making the members of the Assembly elected biennially, and I do it for the purpose of following it up by the proposition that we shall have only biennial sessions of the Legislature. I think it will be found that a very large portion of the legislation in this State is confined to local or private legislation, and it seems to me to be entirely manifest that the Convention intends to adopt some measure by which this large amount of private and local legislation shall cease from coming before the Legislature; and if such a measure is adopted by the Convention, there is Mr. MERRITT-I move to make it one hun-no need for the annual sessions of the Legislature. dred and thirty-nine, as proposed by the Committee, instead of one hundred and twenty-eight. The question was put on the amendment of Mr. E. A. Brown, and it was declared lost. Mr. E. A. BROWN-I propose one hundred and forty-one. The question was put on the amendment of Mr. E. A. Brown, and it was declared lost. Mr. VAN CAMPEN-I rise to a point of order that we have taken a direct vote on that number within thirty minutes past. The CHAIRMAN-The Chair understands the proposition of the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Merwin] was to make it over one hundred and twenty-eight. While that was pending the gentleman from Albany [Mr. A. J. Parker] moved an amendment to the original article as reported by the committee, so as to change it from one hundred and thirty-nine to one hundred and twentyeight; that was lost. But that vote did not have any connection with the amendment of the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Merwin]. The Chair, therefore, holds the proposition of the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Merwin] now stands at one hundred and twenty-eight, and the gentleman from St. Lawrence [Mr. Merritt] moves to amend, by changing the number in that proposed amendment of the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Merwin] from one hundred and twenty-eight to one hundred and thirty-nine. The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. Merritt, and it was declared carried. The CHAIRMAN announced that the question was on the proposed substitute of Mr. Merwin, as amended by the committee. Mr. BARKER-I rise simply to state that having changed the number to one hundred and thirty-nine, the balance of the proposition of the gentleman from Jefferson [Mr. Merwin] should be voted down, because it proposes to continue the present apportionment. If it is one hundred and thirty-nine there will have to be a new apportionment, and therefore I think the proposition ought to be voted down as being only calculated for one hundred and twenty-eight. Mr. MERWIN-The main proposition now left of my amendment is whether or not we shall elect by counties or single districts. When that is determined the wording of the amendment can be altered to correspond with the vote taken. Mr. E. A. BROWN-We can avoid any difficulty by dividing the question. Mr. MASTEN-I offer the following amend ment: Insert after the word "aliens the words "who have not declared, according to law, their It is very evident, Mr. Chairman, that a very large portion of the legislation which applies to the public and only to the public interest (if you throw out private legislation) can be done precisely as well by calling the Legislature in session every other year, as it can by having it in session annually. Mr. E. BROOKS-I hope the amendment moved by the gentleman who has just taken his seat will prevail. I believe it is a wise maxim recognized by most persons who study public measures, that the world is governed too much, and that the frequency of the assembling of our Legislature, instead of contributing to the public good, tends very much to the public disadvantage. I believe it would be a measure of great public economy if the Legislature were to assemble but once in every two years, instead of every year, as at present, and I do not believe in regard to any public question which may require action, that the people will suffer thereby. I do not wish to debate the question, but I believe no measure has been proposed during the consideration of the question now before us, of more public importance than this one, and I believe, sir, that the people, in regard to whom we hear so much, and of whom we say so much, will be entirely satisfied with the proposition, should it become part of the organic law. Mr. RATHBUN-I will state now, sir, upon this subject, that the Committee on the Powers and Duties of the Legislature have considered this question thoroughly, and they are unanimous, as I understand it, in favor of the proposition offered by the gentleman from Steuben [Mr. Rumsey]. They believe that it is better in every possible sense for the people of this State to have a session of the Legislature but once in two years. It is perfectly well known, I apprehend, by the members of the legal profession in this Convention, that one of the greatest annoyances in the world and which occurs every year, is that the legislative provisions of this State are continually changing. No man knows until he gets possession of the Session Laws and goes through and through, reading them from beginning to end, anything about what our law is, and how many changes have been made. They are frequently made with a view to accommodate particular cases, and the rules of evidence are changed to that the Governor may call a special session of the Legislature at any time when he shall see fit to do so, stating in his proclamation the purposes and object for which it is called, and that the Legislature shall do no other business. meet cases that are about to be commenced. I on the Powers and Duties of the Legislature has They change the rules of evidence about cases been referred to, and it is therefore not improper that have been long pending. And in that man- for me to say that they have provided in their report ner legislation has been going on for years, with this constant and vexatious interference by the Legislature, with the rules of evidence, and other provisions existing at the time the right of action in many cases accrued. I hope this amendment will prevail. It is intended on the part of the committee I named to report other amendments in regard to this change, and with a view to carry it out. It seems to me we can hardly do much better than to adopt this provision; it will have one effect, which I think members cannot fail to see, and which is very desirable. It will, at all events, relieve the House for one year from the third branch. They will be compelled to go abroad and enter into some occupation and support themselves for one year without depending on the Legislature, and a good many of them will perhaps commit suicide in the mean time, and the balance will probably return to some honorable business or calling that will keep them away from the halls of the Legislature, and for that reason I think it is very desirable this experiment should be tried. Mr. ANDREWS-If it should turn out that the Governor himself, unfaithful to the interests of the State, ought to be impeached and removed from that position, I submit that the difficulty and the necessity would not be met by relying upon that officer to convene the Legislature for the purpose of deposing him. I have but this morning taken up the Journal of the Debates of the Convention in Michigan, which are sent to my colleague [Mr. Alvord], and this very subject is a matter of discussion. In that State, where biennial sessions of the Legislature have for a long time been held, I notice a statement in the speech of Mr. Lathrop, Attorney-General of that State, that, although he was originally strongly in favor of that measure, experience has shown to him that it has an unwise limitation of the power of that body, and for those reasons, Mr. Chairman, and because it is a novelty in respect to the Legislature of this State, I am opposed to the proposed amendment. Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-I desire to say I am in favor of the proposition, and to make a single suggestion. As I understand it, the Legislature elected in the manner proposed by the gentleman Mr. FULLER-I agree with the gentleman from Steuben [Mr. Rumsey] will hold their from Onondaga [Mr. Andrews] that the people office for two years; and it will be within have not called for this change, and they do not the province of the Governor, under the expect it. I learn another fact from some conarticle reported by the committee on that subject, sultation with my constituents who come down to call an extra session of the Legislature should here occasionally from the western part of the any contingency arise to make it necessary, at State, and that is that there is a sentiment growother than the time appointed for the regular ing up in that part of the State, and daily increassession. ing, that the people will not be inclined to ratify Mr. ANDREWS-This is a new proposition to any Constitution which this Convention will me, and I think it will be wholly new to the peo- probably make, and I think therefore we had ple of the State. So far as I am advised, no rep- better avoid these sweeping changes. Again, resentation upon this subject has been made to sir, I do not think that the proposed amendment this body, nor has this matter received public will remedy the evil which the gentleman from attention or discussion. I agree, sir, that it is Cayuga [Mr. Rathbun] complains of. The only eminently desirable to limit the legislation of the effect of having biennial sessions will be to State, and, while I say that, I must also say that, double the length of the sessions when they come, in my judgment, the vast and varied interests of and to double the business of the sessions. You this State, which is in itself almost an empire, re- will have just double the amount of laws passed at quire the annual assembling of a Legislature in one session that you do now; it will not remedy which is reposed the entire law making power. the evil complaimed of, and the Legislature, Now, sir, I think we should limit, as far as we instead of sitting three or four months, as they can, the subjects of legislation; but I am entirely do now, will sit six or eight months, and do opposed to prohibiting the annual assembling of double the work. That will be substantially the the Legislature when, as we know from the ex-effect of passing the proposed amendment. I perience of the past, it would have been impos- think therefore that, as at present advised, I sible to have carried along the great public ques- should have to go against it. tions in this State which have arisen during the last five years without an annual assembling of the Legislature. Sir, it is because the public exigencies in a State like this often require the frequent assembling of the body of the Legislature that I am in favor of continuing the present system. And, sir, what are we to do? Are we to abrogate substantially, for the period of two years, the supervisory power of the Legislature over the public officers of the State and over all the great interests which are committed to their charge? Mr. RUMSEY-Will the gentleman allow me to interrupt him? The report of the Committee Mr. PAIGE This proposition strikes me favorably. In reference to there being a demand for legislation in the alternate years, that objection has been answered by two delegates, the Governor having the power to make a special call of the Legislature on any particular exigency. Then in reference to the other objection, that the Legislature, sitting only once in two years, the session will be doubled in its length. I do not agree in that conclusion. I think the Legislature sitting only once in two years, would sit no longer than if they sat every year. It seems to me that the crying evil of the time is excessive legislation, and this proposition is one which Add to section five, at the end thereof, "No commends itself, I think, to the favorable consid-member of either branch of the Legislature shall eration of the Convention and of the people. The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. Rumsey and it was declared lost. The CHAIRMAN announced the pending question to be on the first part of Mr. Merwin's amendment, as follows: "SEC. 4. The Assembly shall consist of one hundred and thirty-nine members, who shall be annually elected. The members of Assembly shall be apportioned among the several counties of the State by the Legislature, as nearly as may be, according to the number of their respective inhabitants, excluding aliens, and shall be chosen by single districts. The apportionment as now established by law shall remain until another enumeration and apportionment as hereinafter provided." either directly or indirectly, demand or receive from any source, any other or additional compensation of any character or description, than that above provided, for any services rendered by him in relation to any matter before the Legislature or any of the committees thereof, during the time for which he was elected. And any member who shall, either directly or indirectly, demand or receive any such other additional compensation, his seat shall be declared vacant, and he shall be deemed guilty of bribery and corruption, and punishable therefor." Mr. GREELEY-I move the following substitute: SEC. 5. "The Senators shall receive no compensation other than the consciousness of honorable usefulness, and the resulting gratitude of their fellow-citizens." Mr. SEYMOUR-I ask for a division of the latter clause. As it now reads it provides for the The CHAIRMAN-The Chair is of the opinelection by single districts, and I ask for a divis-ion that the amendment of the gentleman from ion before that. Westchester [Mr. Greeley] is not now in order. The proposition of the gentleman from Ulster [Mr. Schoonmaker] being to add to this section, this cannot be regarded as an amendment to the amendment. Mr. WEED-I understand the only difference between this and the original proposition is the question whether we will elect by single districts or by counties. Mr. SEYMOUR-This adds that the counties shall elect by districts. If you stop short of the last provision, then you will have the provision of the committee, and that is the whole distinction there is in it. If you substitute this for the action of the committee, you substitute single districts for election by counties. If you vote this down, it stands counties. The question was then put on the first part of Mr. Merwin's amendment, and it was declared lost, on a division, by a vote of 41 to 74. The CHAIRMAN then announced the question to be on the last part of Mr. Merwin's amend ment. Mr. MERWIN-The last part of the proposition is of no importance now, and I withdraw it. Mr. BARKER-I move to strike out of lines four and five the following words: "who are citizens of the State," and insert in the place thereof "excluding aliens," so as to have it comply with the section as the committee reported it last night. The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Barker and it was declared carried. Mr. MERRITT-On the fourteenth line of the same section make the same change. There being no objection the correction was ordered to be made. The SECRETARY then proceeded to read the fifth section, as follows: Mr. L. W. RUSSELL-I move this as a substitute to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Ulster [Mr. Schoonmaker]. The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amendment, as follows: "No Senator or member of Assembly shall. draw his pay until the close of the session, wheu he shall take his oath or affirmation that he has not received or agreed to receive, nor does he expect to receive any money or other property for his vote or other official action as such Senator or member of the Assembly. If he fails to take such oath or affirmation he shall forfeit his pay, and be ineligible to re-election." The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Russell and it was declared adopted. The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. Schoonmaker, and it was declared carried. Mr. GREELEY-I propose now to strike out the words "members of the Legislature" in the beginning of the first line, and insert as follows: The SECRETARY again read the amendment as follows: "SEC. 5. The Senators shall receive no compensation, other than the consciousness of honorable usefulness, and the resulting gratitude of their fellow-citizens." Mr. GREELEY-I propose no experiment, no novelty. The best legislative bodies ever since there were such, have been unpaid bodies. The most honorable, the most useful and the most influential legislative bodies to-day are unpaid. No SEC. 5. "The members of the Legislature shall receive for their services an annual salary of one thousand dollars, and ten cents for each mile member of the British Parliament ever receives they shall travel in going to or returning from their place of meeting by the most usual route. The Speaker of the Assembly shall receive an additional compensation equal to one-half his salary as a member." Mr. SCHOONMAKER-I have a proposition to amend. pay for his services, or would receive it. He has not any office. If he takes office he instantly vacates his seat as a member of Parliament, and has to be re-elected. I propose there shall be one branch of the Legislature, a small body, composed of men who are willing to serve the public without compensation. They need not be The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amend-rich men. There are poor farmers who will serve ment, as follows: 'honorably and usefully, because they believe it well and wise to do so. I trust this Convention | Convention, and ask to be discharged from its will be willing to allow one body to be consti- further consideration. tuted and paid, as the best Legislatures have always been paid in all ages of the world. The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Greeley, and it was declared lost. Mr. FOLGER-I move a reconsideration of the vote by which the amendment in relation to the compensation of the members of the Legislature has just been passed. The question was then put on the motion of Mr. Folger, and it was declared lost. Mr. T. W. DWIGHT-Do I understand the Chair to state the question to be on the reconsideration of the vote just taken? The SECRETARY proceeded to read the first section as reported, as follows: SECTION 1 The Legislative power of this State shall be vested in a Senate and Assembly. Any elector of this State shall be eligible to the office of Senator or member of the Assembly. Mr. WEED-As there have been many changes in very many particulars made in this report, if in order, I move, and I hope if not in order, it will be done by unanimous consent, that the amendments made to this report be printed and placed on our tables this evening, and that we now adjourn till seven o'clock instead of half-past seven. It is one-half hour earlier than our fixed Mr. FOLGER-My motion was to reconsider time, and then we can consider it understandingthe vote taken on the amendment which proposedly. that every man should be branded as a rogue The PRESIDENT-The Chair will inform the when he comes here. I do not know that I have gentleman [Mr. Weed] that by a rule passed sevcorrectly stated it, in words, but that is the sub-eral days since, the hall this evening is to be used stance of it. for another purpose. The CHAIRMAN-Yes, sir. Mr. M. I. TOWNSEND-There has been one eternal ding from the time we entered this Convention until now against the corruption of the Legislature, and I want, now that there is a possible opportunity to do something, that we should not lose the advantage we obtain by reason of that opportunity. It is so important, it has been felt we must overturn our whole system of government because the legislators are corrupt. This is one mode of reaching it, and I hope that we shall not, through any fear of branding men as rogues that are not rogues, fail to ask honest men to just say they are not. I hope it will not be reconsidered. Mr. FOLGER-I call for the reading of the amendment, and I wish to reserve the floor. The SECRETARY again read the amendment of Mr. L. W. Russell. Mr. WEED-That was only upon condition that we did not use it. The PRESIDENT-The Chair finds no condition attached to the resolution. Mr. S. TOWNSEND-I wish, sir, if now in order, to offer an amendment as a substitute for the first section: The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amendment as follows: SEC. 1. Every elector of this State shall be eligible for any of the offices herein named. The supreme legislative power of this State is vested in a Senate and Assembly. ment of their several districts. The Legislature at its first session, after the adoption of this Constitution, and from time to time thereafter, shall confer upon the several boards of town, county, village and city officers, the necessary and appropriate powers of legislaMr. FOLGER—This starts out with the pre-lation and administration for the local governsumption that there are men who will come here with the deliberate design of degrading their Mr. S. TOWNSEND-If, sir, I have listened official position, and sacrificing their moral char- to the debates which have taken place in this acter. I shall not affirm or deny but that may body, properly and understandingly, there is an be so; but grant that it is so. Grant that there expression which has called for, and a determinasits in this hall, and in the hall above, winter af- tion shown, to confer larger legislative power, ter winter, men who will pollute their hands and than they have heretofore enjoyed upon the variblister their moral character with the reception ous officers and boards of towns and counties. I of bribes, I would ask the gentleman from Rens- am aware, sir, that the committee having this selaer [Mr. M. I. Townsend] to look at how flimsy subject more directly in charge, propose to report a barrier he erects when he provides that they a provision, substantially embodying this idea, shall swear that they did not receive bribes. It yet it seems to me to be a proper time now to is a mere hedge of hemp which would fall submit this proposition, and to engraft this prin before the blaze of their passions. It would not stand an instant; an oath would not restrict them at all. Men who are corrupt and rotten enough to legislate from bribery, as you concede there are such, will add perjury to their crimes. The hour of two o'clock having arrived, the committee rose, and the President resumed the Chair in Conveution. ciple upon the article now under consideration If this substitute should prevail, I shall then be prepared to vote intelligently upon the question between the large and small district system. If such a provision should be adopted, it will tend to diminish the number of the body of the Senate, so it may assume more of the character of a council of revision. A gentleman who has filled the Mr. ARCHER, from the Committee of the highest legislative and historical position in this Whole, reported that the committee had had un- State, and whose presence a few evenings since der consideration the report of the Committee on I was happy to greet on this floor [Hon. Gulian the Legislature, its Organization, etc., and had C. Verplanck], now an octogenarian, told me that made some progress therein, and under the reso- he opposed continuing that provision in the lution adopted by the Convention, had directed Constitution of 1821, but he has long been contheir chairman to report back the article to the vinced that he was unwise in his opposition to what reason he has for asking for so long a leave of absence? Mr. SEYMOUR-The reason is an engagement of long standing, which is imperative, and must be filled. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. FRANCIS-I ask for leave of absence for my colleague [Mr. Armstrong] for an indefinite period, on account of ill health. There being no objection, leave of absence was Mr. BICKFORD-I deem it wrong to grant these indefinite leaves of absence, although it has been done. The PRESIDENT-The objection of the gentleman [Mr. Bickford] comes too late. that measure; and that the only real objection to Mr. ALVORD-In order to avoid the difficulty we have got ourselves into by the adoption of this resolution, giving the use of this hall for this evening-which I do not wish on my part to take away-I would move that we now take a recess until four o'clock this afternoon. The question was put on the motion of Mr. Alvord, and it was declared carried. So the Convention took a recess until four o'clock. AFTERNOON SESSION. Mr. T. W. DWIGHT-I ask for leave of absence for Mr. C. E. Parker, of Tioga, who is compelled to go to Syracuse, as a member of a committee, until Tuesday afternoon. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. FLAGLER-I ask for leave of absence for Mr. Endress, until Wednesday next. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. LUDINGTON-I have been absent from home five weeks, and I am compelled to ask leave of absence from to-morrow until Tuesday next. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. The PRESIDENT announced the special order of the day, being the report of the Committee of the Whole on the article reported by the Committee on the Legislature, its Organization, etc. The PRESIDENT announced the pending question to be on the substitute of Mr. S. Townsend to the first section as reported by the Committee of the Whole. The question was put on the substitute of Mr. The Convention re-assembled at four o'clock, S. Townsend, and it was declared lost. when the proceedings were resumed. Mr. FULLER-I desire to ask leave of absence for myself from to-day until Wednesday next. I have business that needs attention. Besides, my constant attendance upon the sessions has caused the state of my health to become such as to require a short rest. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. BARKER-I ask for leave of absence for myself from to-morrow's sessions. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. WALES-I ask for leave of absence for myself from the latter part of the session to-morrow until Monday evening. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. CHESEBRO-I ask leave of absence until Tuesday morning, from the session of to-morrow. There being no objection, leave of absence was granted. Mr. SEYMOUR-I ask for leave of absence until Thursday. Mr. BICKFORD-Will the gentleman state Mr. 8. TOWNSEND-I call for the ayes and noes. The PRESIDENT-The Chair will inform the gentleman that his call came too late. Mr. BICKFORD-I move to amend by striking out all after the words "members of Assembly," in the second line, and insert, "Any citizen of the State possessing the qualification of an elector except as to residence in the town, ward or election district, shall be eligible to the office of Senator or member of Assembly." My object in offering this amendment is to make persons eligible who may not be electors in some cases. As we have adopted a suffrage article, a man is not an elector who happens not to have lived in an election district for ten days, or in a town thirty days, and in a county four months. Although he may have been a resident of the senate district all his life, he is not eligible, as the section now stands, to vote for a Senator, unless he has lived in the election district for ten days, and in the town for thirty days, and in the county for four months. It is absurd as it now stands. The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Bickford, and it was declared lost. Mr. S. TOWNSEND-I move a reconsidera. |