was to enable individuals, whose private means would not enable them to attend the sessions of the respective Legislatures, to meet the moderate and reasonable expenses to which they must necessarily be subjected by their attendance on them, and to the end that the country might not be altogether deprived of the services of men in narrow circumstances, from their inability to suffice to this extra expense. Hence, and in the same spirit, a moderate and reasonable allowance was made for travelling expenses-not at such a rate, however, as would be required by the nabob of the South, whom the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. KING) describes, and who, he tells us with all the gravity and dignity he possesses in so eminent a degree, and which so well becomes the occasion-cannot get along without his carriage and two horses, and two black servants, and two dogs, but such as would enable a decent and respectable individual to transport himself comfortably and conveniently from his place of residence to the Seat of Government.

MARCH, 1816.

the bill. He contended that it was perfectly farcical to talk of drawing out the first-rate talents and characters by such a salary as fifteen hundred dollars. On the contrary, this sum, when fixed and certain, was about sufficient to tempt the cupidity and excite the avarice of the second or third rate county court lawyer, the idle and noisy demagogue, or the lowest grade of political brawlers, who haunted the taverns and tippling houses, and stunned the ears of the peaceable citi zens with their devotion to republicanism, their love of the people, and their exclusive patriotism. Here the question presented itself, and he would examine whether the old per diem of six dollars was or was not sufficient to meet the reasonable and necessary expenses of a member whilst attending to his official duties. He would candidly acknowledge that money had depreciated; that living was (nominally at least) higher; that the pecuniary resources of a member, arising from his pay, were not as great or as favorable to him as they had been in former and better times. But Such, beyond all doubt, was the principle upon this was not to last forever. In the meantime, it which pay has heretofore been given to members was equally felt by all those in any way conof the State and National Legislatures. This was nected or concerned with the General Governthe correct medium between the two extremes ment-the public creditor, the old soldier, the disof refusing to pay their reasonable expenses, or banded officer-indeed, by every portion of the of giving salaries sufficiently large to compensate community, even in their private concerns and members of the respective Legislatures for the capacity. He saw no reason, therefore, why the loss of time, the sacrifices they made of individ-members of Congress should separate themselves ual comfort, and the diversion of their talents and from all other classes of that community, and industry from their usual avocations; by the first make use of their official station to escape from alternative, depriving the country altogether of the pressure of an evil common to all, and one for the services of persons in narrow circumstances, which it would better become them, and it was their and throwing the Government entirely into the bounden duty, to endeavor to find an efficient remhands of the rich; by the latter, attempting to do edy. He moreover contended, the depreciation that which, if carried into execution, would bank- notwithstanding, that a member could live conrupt the nation. It was, in fact, not to be ex-veniently, comfortably, abundantly-ay, and like pected nor calculated upon, that the best and first-rate talents of the country could or would be drawn out, in common and peaceable times, by any salary which might be offered; far less by such an annual stipend as that proposed. In moments of great crisis-on occasions of imminent danger and national exigency-the amor patria -the genial impulse of great minds would force such men to come forward and take a part in the public councils. But, to expect such a sacrifice of private pursuits, and individual enjoyment and emolument on their part, in ordinary tines, was out of the question. He more than doubted, indeed, whether any salary, the most sanguine friends of the bill could prevail on themselves to propose, would insure a more respectable representation than that which composed the present Congress.

The point at issue, then, it would seem, between the gentleman and himself, was, that they proposed to remunerate members for their services and sacrifices; whilst he, according to the principle heretofore acted upon, thought it most expedient to confine the pay to such an amount as would defray their necessary and reasonable expenses, coming to, attending on, and returning from, the National Legislature. Take either horn of the dilemma, and he was equally opposed to

a gentleman, too, if this was to be the criterion,
upon the present per diem. He could prove it,
he thought, beyond all contradiction, by figures.
Take, for example, the expenditure of a week in
Washington, at the highest rate, and for what he
should presume to be an ample establishment,
even for a gentleman: boarding and lodging, (the
highest charge he had heard of,) fifteen dollars,
a servant four, two horses eight.
He did not
include the two dogs of the honorable gentleman
from Massachusetts, as this necessary appendage
to the dignity of a member was unknown to him-
self or either of his colleagues, and must belong,
he presumed, exclusively to Virginia and the
other large States. The above three items amount
to twenty-seven dollars, which, deducted from
twelve dollars, the gross amount of a week's pay,
at six dollars per diem, would leave a balance of
fifteen dollars per week for extra expenses, in-
cluding Madeira, which the veteran member from
Maryland (Mr. WRIGHT) seemed to think had
likewise become indispensable to the dignity of
a

gentleman who had in these days a seat in Congress. And on this point, at least, he candidly acknowledged, and was happy to find, that his feelings were somewhat in unison with his old Congressional friend and acquaintance; though he had, nevertheless, some doubts whether the

Compensation of Members.

member who had made a late dinner or his sup- comfortable, and to entice them into expenses and per with brown bread and a tumbler of genuine a kind of living beyond what they were accuscider, would not find himself on the following tomed to, or had the private means of keeping up morning fully as adequate to perform the duties at home, was contrary to the soundest dictates of of a legislator, as the one who had feasted sump- common sense, and dangerous in the extreme. tuously with the best white loaf, or enjoyed his By doing so, they must become needy and cravbottle, even of the deservedly far-famed old lathing, and be placed precisely in that situation most of Alexandria. likely to render them subservient to, and then perhaps reluctant, yet not less implicit tools of, that branch of the Government which could alone supply their immediate and most pressing wants, and hold out to them in expectation a rich harvest and ample share of the loaves and fishes at its disposal.

There was another aspect in which this subject presented itself to him as of vital importance, and as affording cause for serious alarm. He was perfectly satisfied, in his own mind, that no measure could be devised which would increase, so enormously and fearfully, the influence of the executive over the legislative branch of the Government, or throw the latter so completely under the control of the former as this salary system. Not only the sessions would thereby be injuriously shortened, but business would be hurried through any how and every how. Congress would meet for little else than to lay taxes and make appropriations. Laws would be passed as they were sent ready drawn up from the several departments, and measures, kindly and previously matured by the industry and superior wisdom of the Executive, would be adopted, right or wrong, with little if any discussion. He entreated gentlemen to take this view of the subject, before they made up their minds on the question, and to postpone the bill at least till the next session, and until they had gone home and consulted with their constituents in regard to it. He could not, for his own part at least, but regard this change of the per diem into a salary, or gross sum, as a dangerous innovation, and one likely to be attended with the worst consequences.

MARCH, 1816.

the letter of that article of the Constitution, which prohibited a Senator or Representative from being appointed to any civil office under the United States, that had been created, or the emoluments of which were increased during the time for which he had been elected. Certain he was that in South Carolina, his native State, and the one he had the honor, in part, to represent, no act to increase the compensation of the members of the Legislature could take effect till after a new election; nor did the provisions of any such act go into operation, except in favor of those who were chosen to serve in a succeeding Legislature. He had long, therefore, been accustomed to regard this as the true and the most decorous, as well as the most correct principle, and he should not, he trusted, be accused of presumption if he ventured to recommend it to that House, as a precedent which it would well become them to imitate.

Before he sat down, Mr. H. said he would add, that he was perfectly aware, the stand he had made in opposition to an increase and change of the per diem into a salary, (indeed it had been more than insinuated in the course of the debate.) would be attributed to a desire of obtaining popularity, and an anticipation of the popular edict it would probably have out of doors. He would Our Government had been described with some not say that such feelings might not have had humor, and not less justice, perhaps, as a species some influence on his mind and conduct; for he of logocracy. It was in fact and in essence very pretended not to be less fallible than those around much of one. It could not get along without consid- him. But he could with justice, and in sober erable discussion. The people ought and would truth aver, that he was opposed upon principle to know, what were the motives which led to this the measure, and more especially to the change or that measure, or why one law was passed, and of the per diem into a fixed salary; a system that, another rejected. Now, he knew of no mode by he was perfectly satisfied, would augment most which this information could be obtained by them enormously the power of Executive influence, more conveniently or satisfactorily, than through which no one, he believed, would deny had inthe debates in Congress, and the speeches of their creased, was increasing, and would be, if it was not Representatives. He was disposed, therefore, to already, placed by this new system beyond all view this cacoethes loquendi, which some gentle- control. Besides, convenient as he acknowledged men (who possessed it in no trifling degree them-such an addition to his pay would be to himself, selves) complained so much of, with some little indulgence. There was, indeed, at times, irksome, tedious and most ridiculous speeches made in that House. But gentlemen enjoyed a privilege which they had very generally, and not very unfrequently availed themselves of during the present session-the privilege of not listening to such speeches; whilst the good people abroad read them, or read them not, according as the subject, or speaker, or any other circumstance, excited their curiosity, or attracted their attention.

These few observations, he hoped, would tend to reconcile the worthy gentleman from Kentucky, a little, to the inconvenience of long speeches, and would also, he trusted, plead in some measure his own apology for the length of time he had encroached upon their patience. He should not have indulged himself to such an extent, but that the active opposition to the bill appeared to devolve almost exclusively upon himself, whilst the first talents in the House had been brought forward in support of it. He would further observe that in the ground he had taken, he thought himself supported by the spirit, if not

at the present time, as well as to other gentlemen, yet when he recalled to mind the heavy taxes which had been or must be laid; the exorbitant tariff of duties on foreign importations, likely to be adopted; the large and unprecedented (at least in time of profound peace) appropriations they were called upon to make; the number of veterans who had lately been disbanded, and thrown penniless upon the world; the debt which had been incurred, and partially funded; the large outstanding demands not yet liquidated-in a word, when he passed in review these and similar matters, it did seem to him that the proposed measure was wrong, and most obviously ill-timed. He at least could not reconcile it to himself; and, though sneered and laughed at by more than one honorable gentleman, for so expressing himself, he would repeat, he should be ashamed to return home and acknowledge that, under such circumstances, and at the close of so bloody and expensive a war, he had voted for, or even neglected to oppose an increase of pay to himself and to those who, like himself, represented the good people of these United States on that floor, and consequently

MARCH, 1816.

Compensation of Members.

H. OF R.

held the purse-strings of the nation at their dis-ments on political subjects, and although it was posal.

a measure in which every member was concerned individually, he never, on any occasion, consulted more the honor, the happiness, the rights, the independence of his constituents and his country, than in proposing a change in the mode of compensation to members of Congress.

He had been a member of Congress for eight

Mr. H. concluded by repeating, he did not think the sessions long. The House was sometimes vexed with the cacoethes loquendi, but the consequence was, that measures had a fair and deliberate consideration. It was necessary, he thought, the community should rightly understand the acts of Congress; and one of the advan-years, in times of trial and difficulty, when the tages of this speechification, was, that the people would be well informed, and our measures be well matured. Long speaking, he contended, was no such great evil as had been asserted; he would rather have ten days speaking than one law; for many laws were an evil. Mr. H. said that the Abbe Sicard, so celebrated for teaching the deaf and dumb, had lately published that there was a nation in North America who had no language at all, but did everything by signs. He was friendly to debate because he himself felt its good effects, for he now entertained very different opinions on some subjects from those he brought here. Ours, he said, was a logocracy; it was in vain to deny it, and we ought to act in the spirit of the Government, &c. Mr. H. adverted to the charge of folding newspapers, &c., and said it was no worse than the practice of lounging about the House as some did. He concluded by declaring it his opinion that instead of diminishing the sessions, he thought it would be better to make them longer; and as to the pay, he thought the honor of the station was sufficient to bring gentlemen to Congress, without any influence from pecuniary considerations.

rights of the nation had been violated, when storms menaced its peace and tranquillity, and when a severe and sanguinary war threatened the very basis of our independence. During all this period, he had discovered imminent danger to the Republic in the councils of the nation, in the very councils to which the American people looked for wisdom and direction-the Congress of the United States. We wanted energy and decision of character to take wise and strong measures. The people called for despatch of business, and we answered them with long speeches. We were many times upon the point of taking the most important questions; and when it was expected that some great measure would be decided, a motion for adjournment was carried. In this way, from day to day, from week to week, and from month to month, a long session was spun out, the six dollars per day pocketted, and little or nothing done to relieve our distresses. When, under this state of things, the people, driven almost to despair, poured upon us their anathemas, every member could go home and tell his constituents that he himself was innocent, and that the fault of indecision and delay rested entirely with others. It was impossible for the people to ascertain who attended to his duty or who neglected it. The members, in this respect, evaded their responsibility, because invisible to their constituents. Although we might patrol the streets, or vote for an adjournment at three o'clock, or even at an earlier hour, the people remained ignorant of our delinquency.

Mr. RANDOLPH said, in reply to Mr. HUGER, that he agreed with him in just one half of one of his propositions, which was that speeches did no harm. In his opinion they were like old women's physic, they did neither good nor harm. The gentleman (Mr. HUGER) thought no pay ought to be allowed, because gentlemen ought to come here for honor; if that is the case, many, said Mr. R., come for what they do not get. Mr. J. said he wished every man to be responMany of the clerks, it had been said, received sible for his conduct to the people, the legitimate more than the members of Congress-yet, Mr. R. fountain of power and authority. He said he said, there was no clerk who ever drudged harder wished his constituents were collected, and after than he did; in proof of which, he briefly detailed hearing the subject discussed, could decide on the course of labor and study he imposed on him- this occasion. They were a wise people, a patriself whilst here in the public service. Mr. R. otic people, a well-judging people, who valued denied that the members could live comfortably independence, liberty, and honor more than a on six dollars a day now, whatever might have few cents, or dollars, or pounds. Although he been the case when the pay was first fixed. did not wish to say anything of his own attendHe adverted also to the salaries of some other ance, it was known to his friends that he lost no officers of the Government, particularly the Chief time during sessions of Congress, and he never Justice, who was put off with a scanty pittance. voted to adjourn when the House could progress The pay at first fixed for those officers was some- with business. So much for the change of the thing like a decent compensation, but now pitiful mode of compensation. But one objection has and disgraceful. The gentleman (Mr. HUGER) been made, which was that Congress might hurry must pardon me, said Mr. R., if I think his argu-business, and not well mature it. There was no ments are better calculated for what is called on danger of any such thing. Business of importthis side of the river stump, than for this Com-ance would always be thoroughly investigated; mittee, &c.

Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, said he wished this measure correctly and properly understood, that the people might judge of its merits. He never concealed from his constituents his senti

and as to matters of less difficulty, of course, they would be easily understood; and not only so, but the mode of doing business precluded the idea of too much despatch. What was that mode? A subject was introduced by resolution or by com

munication from the President, or head of a department, or by petition. In either case, the subject was referred to a committee of seven members, who investigated and reported, for or against the measure; the report was committed to the whole House of 182 members in committee, printed, and taken up at some future day, when it was read twice over, discussed by sections, and then reported to the House. If, after this investigation, it was approved by the House, it was ordered to a third reading, and engrossed, subject to the inspection of an engrossing committee. It was then read over a third time to the House before it was finally decided. If it passed the House, it was sent to the Senate, where the same routine was pursued, after which it was enrolled and inspected by a joint committee of both Houses, and ultimately examined and approved by the President. So much as to the only objection made to the mode.

MARCH, 1816.

ought to take place in the United States, but which are becoming common. Every extra session would cost the Government at least from $120,000 to $150,000 more than the per diem in mileage and contingencies. But let it be recollected that in case of an extra session, which we may suppose necessary in some extreme case, no member will have anything more in consequence of it. It may be asked, what would you do in any emergencies, such as those which have produced extra sessions? In such cases, the call of Congress some four or five weeks previous to the time of adjournment, would always answer the purpose, as in the case of the attack upon the Chesapeake.

Connected with the whole system of expense, therefore, the public will save money; and if that be the case, no patriot will think the compensation too great to be paid for the representative of his choice.

Let us now attend to the other branch of the But let us confine our view to the compensaargument, the amount of compensation. On this tion, abstracted from the foregoing considerations. subject Mr. J. said he felt much less anxious than Members cannot consider this as a great augmenon the other. He wanted a certain sum given tation. Indeed none can think so, compared for the year, whether it amounted to one dollar with what we get. Nine months sessions will per day, or to ten; and, as to himself individu- give each member, at six dollars per day, one ally, he did not care whether the sum was one thousand six hundred and twenty dollars. Mr. J. thousand five hundred dollars, or half that sum; said, he had himself received at one session, one that was with the House to determine. He was thousand five hundred dollars at six dollars per aiming at a reform in the proceedings of Con- day; and he was convinced, that in a very little gress-a reform which must take place now or time, the wealthy would unite with another class at some other period, or the country would one of men, and have either perpetual sessions, or sesday be endangered, and the rights of the peoplesions that would bring to each member at least invaded. Every member who has voted against this measure has declared the present compensation inadequate. Some of them have said we should have nine, others ten, and others twelve dollars per day. Mr. J. said he would not vote for one cent in addition to the per diem. It would be an inducement to protract the sessions, till they would become perpetual, and that would be the final result of raising the wages by the day. But if members would vote for the change, and thereby shorten the sessions, and not only shorten the sessions, but despatch and transact all the public business, then, he said, he was willing to vote for a liberal compensation-a compensation which would induce members to remain in their seats, which would, in some degree, indemnify them for the sacrifices of happiness and property, which any man of business must make, who serves his country as a Representative.

Mr. J. said he would vote for no sum which, in his opinion, would ultimately cost the people of the United States one cent more than the present system. He asked, then, whether the sum proposed would be too great? and whether such a sum would ultimately cost the Government more? Mr. J. said he had looked back into the various sessions since the beginning of the Government at the various contingent expenses of each session, and he had no doubt but that under the proposed compensation money would be saved to the nation. In this pecuniary point of view, the nation would be the gainer. 1st. By dispensing with extra sessions of Congress, which never

one thousand five hundred dollars. This, he said, demonstrated the propriety of having a fixed sum, beyond which we could not go; that if we wasted our time, it would be at our own expense. Suppose, said he, we were to continue our eight months sessions, what enormous contingent expenses should we incur? At our last session, our contingent expenses amounted to $50,000, or thereabout. Despatch of business would prevent this. In a session of three months, the contingent expenses ought not, nor would they be, more than about $20,000, a saving of $30,000 in each session of six months. Indeed, with the rules of reform which this measure must introduce, instead of $50,000, the amount heretofore expended for printing, stationery, fuel, attendants, and other contingencies, the whole ought not to exceed $15,000 for the contingent expenses of a session. But Congress have not only had a session which gave each member $1,500; it is in our power, (and I fear the time is not far distant when we shall avail ourselves of it,) to remain in session till each member will draw $2,000 from the Treasury. In this point of view, it is necessary to limit that power. But there are many other weighty reasons why this compensation is not too great.

1st. It will unite patriotism and interest to secure the attendance and industry of members.

2d. It will enable a man of merit, though poor, as well as the man of wealth, to come to Congress, if elected by the people, which is no trifling consideration. This is the only free and happy Gov