JAN. 22, 1828.]

Cumberland Road.

[SENATE.

engendered, which has the effect of arraying State against rested on every land-holder to make roads, by which access State, and brother against brother. These are the bitter could be had to them. And the best roads had generally fruits of latitudinous construction, to counterbalance been made by the owners of land either to them or through which, no good, however great, will ever be found to be them. Now, said Mr. B. in the States through which sufficient. No, Sir, nothing can atone for an alienation this road is to run, after it crosses the boundary of Ohio, of feeling on the part of the People towards one another the United States is the sole land-holder, and is bound, and towards this Government. I must believe, then, that the both by interest and by equity, to make a road, to render gentleman from Maryland is mistaken, in ascribing to my these lands accessible. There were other considerations colleague secret pleasure in the enactment of the law which imposed this duty on the General Government, making an appropriation to the Dismal Swamp Canal. My which would not be operative on an individual landholdcolleague could not have esteemed that as a boon, which er. The United States is paying no taxes on her lands; assisted in sapping the foundations of this Government. I and is exempted altogether from the necessity of making will answer positively for Virginia, in relation to this sub. improvement upon them; and besides, the advantage deject. Her constituted authorities would have rejected, rived from this great work had been much greater than without one moment of hesitation, the largess, had it been the expenditure. At the time at which the compact was offered to them, and they would have been sustained in entered into by the United States and the Western States, such rejection by the People. Let our mountains still it was found that donations of lands were really, instead uplift their untamed peaks to the clouds—let us have to of donations, exorbitant sales-because the increase of the wade through the mire of our roads, and brave the mighty taxes was very great. The United Stated derive great floods of our streams, in the best way that we are able-advantage from the accession which the population of yet we will not barter the Constitution of this land for any those States were rapidly gaining, and which was much boon which may be offered; in violation thereof, we will increased by the roads which the people of the States not be tempted to countenance a temporary expediency, were continually making by their own labor. These roads for that great, and prominent, and safe policy of preserv- and bridges were made to improve the access to the lands ing the Government, as it came from the hands of those of the United States, and in the whole plan the Genwho made it, and, thereby, of perpetuating the blessings eral Government was largely the gainer. Thus it will be of liberty to our posterity. seen, that the labor and enterprise of the people of the West on their plantations, roads, bridges, &c., are redounding to the interest of the United States: for, when ever a project is started for a road or a canal through the public lands, their value becomes immediately enhanced in a very considerable degree. I think, said Mr. B., that sufficient has been said to show that the United States is bound to make this road, both on considerations of justice and policy; and that this bill stands upon the very best footing.

I owe you an apology for having occupied your time thus long. When I rose, I had no intention of saying so much; but I throw myself upon the importance of the subject for my apology. He could urge much more upon it, but he had probably said too much already. Let this Government avoid all interference with the internal affairs of the States. Let it revolve in its own orbit, leaving the State Governments to revolve in theirs, and no imagination, however vivid, can paint the glories which await us as a nation-but, let it go on, as it has of late gone on, addressing itself to local interests and feelings, and thereby engendering feuds and animosities, and our destiny may easily be foretold.

Mr. SMITH, of Md. said he did not intend to impute inconsistency or want of principle to the Senators from Virginia, in the course they had taken in relation to the Dismal Swamp Canal. He merely intended to imply that, although the Dismal Swamp Canal would benefit their State, such was their ideas of the Constitution, that they would not advocate it.

Mr. MACON said, that this system, thus far, had shewn how much the great men who projected it, were mistaken, in their ideas of making its effects uniform throughout the country. Such a thing could not be. Gentlemen were mistaken altogether, if they thought that, by making laws, they could bind the people together. When any part of the country believes that it has not its fair share of this pover, it becomes discontented. And if ever the country was ruined it would be from this cause.

Mr. COBB would trouble the Senate with but a few remarks. The gentleman. from Maryland has observed, among other improvements, that something had been done for the Savannah river. As I voted for that appropriation, while it is well known that I am not a friend to the system, I deem it proper to explain my motives. The object of that appropriation was, to remove obstructions placed in the Savannah river, during the Revolution, to defend the City from the enemy. In this case, then, there was an obligation, on the part of the government, to make this appropriation and I think I can point to a simular object in Maryland, in which the aid of the General Government was obtained. During the late war certain vessels were sunk in the harbor of Baltimore, to prevent the British flotilla from attacking the city; and he believed that, since the peace, these vessels were raised at the expence of the Government. He did not mention this to find a any fault with it. It was as it should be. And why ? Because the Government had assumed the right to obstruct the harbor for the common defence and was Mr. BENTON said that this bill provided for the com- bound, when they were no longer necessary, to remove pletion of a section of road already begun ; as a mere ques- those obstructions. And, therefore I think, said Mr. C. tion of expediency he should suppose that the Congress that there is no difference between cases of Baltimore and ought to finish what had been commenced. He saw no Savannah. Now, Sir, said Mr. C. to take up the subject benecessity for drawing into this discussion the question of fore us, I did think, and I do still think, that there is a the powers of Congress to make Internal Improvements; great distinction between this and other objects of Inbecause this road had been in progress for a quarter of aternal Improvement. In the House of Representatives, Century-and because it was made under a compact which on a former occasion, a resolution had been introduced had induced every successive Congress to approve it, and against the objects of Internal Improvemert. Another make appropriations for its continuance. As to the question resolution was offered, and which succeeded, which gave tether Congress had this right, it was easily settled. It is the power to the United States of making appropriations ad that two per cent. was reserved from the sales of lands in aid of projects commenced by the different States. To f the completion of this work, and it was argued that no him the power of appropriation appeared much more danpropriations ought to be made beyond the amount aris- gerous than the other. He should say nothing further from that provision. But, on the other hand, the friends upon the general question; but he could not see one titof the road contend that Congress was bound by a strong the of reason in support of the right of an individual State moral obligation to complete the work. Such an obligation to grant a power to the Federal Government which was

:

SENATE.]

ate.

not to be found in the constitution. And giving to Con- | Committee whether the unexpended balance of the sum gress the power of appropriating money, was far more dangerous than to admit the original power itself of the General Government to make Internal Improvements, independent of the will or permission of the States. In this respect he agreed entirely with the gentleman from Virginia, who had, a short time since, addressed the SenThe power to raise money and appropriate it was not less important than it was restricted and every exercise of it ought to be strictly within the terms of the grant in the Constitution. This was a subject of great jealousy when the Constitution was adopted. The most populous States were jealous of every power of which they divest ed themselves in granting them to the General Government; and it was expressly declared, that every power which was not given to the General Government, by the Constitution, was retained by the States, and could not be wrested from them. It is scarcely necessary, [said Mr. COBB] that I should go into a further detail of my opinions upon the constitutionality of this question. They have often been declared before, and have now been presented to the Senate in a manner merely incidental, as I probably should not have opened my lips had it not been for the remarks, which I have already noticed, of the gentleman from Maryland.

appropriated ought to be considered in the appropriation
for this year. In order to receive satisfactory information
on the subject, a letter had been directed to the Secre-
tary of the Treasury, who had in reply transmitted a re-
port of the Chief Clerk of the Pension Office, by which
it appeared that the sum spoken of as an unexpended
balance, was that sum which should have been expended
in 1828, and which would be paid over to the pensioners
in 1829, in the same manner as the Navy fund was dis
posed of. It was, therefore, considered by the Commit-
tee, that the 564,000 dollars remaining in the Treasury,
was not, in reality, an unexpended balance; but that it
would be called for in the course of the year 1829. He
thought the subject would be better illustrated by the
letter of the Secretary of the Navy, than by any other
means. [The Secretary then read the letter.]
Under these circumstances, it would be seen that the
Committee would have been justified in reporting the
bill without an amendment. But, on further considera-
tion, it appeared doubtful whether a sum, not expended
out of the appropriation of 1827, could be applied on that
to be expended in 1828. The statement of the Clerk of
the Pension Office was, that, if all the pensions came in
during the year, it would require $ 1,200,000 to pay them.
The Committee thought it better to bring the question
before the Senate; and, as the Department was ready to
take the responsibility on themselves, they were willing
to let them have it.

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, observed, that he did not know whether the sinking of the vessels at Savannah, during the Revolution, had been done by the diriction of the General Government, or whether those obstructions had been placed there by order of the State authorities. He Mr. BRANCH made some remarks, in which he exrecollected, however, that the Legislature of Georgia pass-plained why he differed from the Committee. ed a law, many years since, levying duties on the tonnage entering the harbour of Savannah, to be applied in clearing out the obstructions to the navigation of that river. And he also recollected, that, when the act of Congress passed, the Legislature of Georgia repealed those duties. He agreed that, both in the instance mentioned by the gentleman from Georgia, of the hulks sunk in the harbour of Baltimore, and also in the case of Savannah, it was perfectly proper that the proposition, for the removal of those obstructions, should be made by Congress. [Mr. S. then stated some circumstances relative to the removal of the vessels sunk in the harbor of Baltimore, which were inaudible to the Reporter.]

Mr BRANCH then inade a few remarks in opposition to the bill, and expressed a desire that the constitutional question should not, in any similar case, be lost sight of. In regard to the hulks in the river Savannah, he observed that this obstruction took place previous to the adoption of the Federal Constitution: and that their removal was more incumbent on the General Government, than the completion of any plan of internal improvement that came within his knowledge.

Mr. EATON said he did not think there was time to argue a constitutional question at this late hour. Whether Georgia had received too much or too little from the General Government, he did not pretend to say. He wished to consider this subject more thoroughly than he had time to do now,and he therefore moved an adjournment.

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 23, 1828.

PENSIONERS.

The bill from the other House, making appropriations for the payment of the Revolutionary and other pension ers of the United States, which had been reported by the Committee on Finance, with an amendinent, having been taken up

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, that he had been ordered by the Committee to move to amend the bill, so as to strike out the appropriation of $236,000 in addition to the unexpended balance of $ 564,000. But, after the bill had been reported, some doubts were entertained by the

Mr. HARRISON said, that he had been informed by the Secretary of the Treasury, that an unexpended ba lance had been increasing for the last two years, until it amounted to $564,000, and that it would probably be sufficient for the expenditure of this year. He thought, with the gentleman from North Carolina, that the expen diture should not be larger than was necessary.

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, the matter was before the Senate for its decision. For the information of the gentleman from Ohio, he would ask the reading of the letter of the Secretary of the Treasury. [The letter was then read by the Secretary.]

Mr. PARRIS said, that he did not see how the balance could have been accumulating, as had been observed by the gentleman from Ohio. He [Mr. P.] understood that, after two years, all unexpended balances were carried to the surplus fund. He thought with the Committee, that it would not be safe to depend on the balance alone; and he would state the effect of doing so. Suppose certain pensioners should apply, who had not claimed their pen sion in 1828. They cannot obtain it afterwards. At any rate, he would not alter the measure so as to cause the least inconvenience. Congress was only the pursers to deal their stipend to these men, and they must have it. The case was a very simple one. By adding the unex pended balance of last year, the nominal amount was swelled; but it had nothing to do with the real appropria tion. It appeared that the unexpended balance remained in the Treasury for the payment of those distant pensions, which had not yet been claimed, and which were scattered through distant parts of the country.

Mr. McLANE said, that he thought, with the gentle. man who had just sat down, that the form of this bill was not material, as regarded its operation on the Treasury, The only object that could be had, in this matter, was, to pay promptly the old pensioners who would apply, and for whom the appropriation was made. They ought not to be put to inconvenience. Before another year, they might be beyond the reach of the necessitics which their pensions would supply. If they do not apply, it is still in the Treasury; and the policy had always been observed of allowing it to remain there, for their use, when

This

their applications should be made. But it appeared that
the appropriation, if this amendment pass, will be totally
inadequate. The Senator from Ohio is in error.
564,000 dollars was not an accumulating balance, because
the balance of the former year went to the surplus fund.
Mr. HARRISON explained, that he had not used the
word accumulating, but had stated that the amount of the
balance had increased, being larger than it was at the end
of any former year.]

Mr. McLANE resumed. He did not intend to misrepresent the gentleman from Ohio. He believed the ALOunt totally inadequate. The Clerk of the Pension Office estimated that 1,200,000 dollars would be required to pay all the pensioners that might apply this year. It was not probable that all would apply-but they ought to be provided for. The surplus now remaining arose from many pensioners having failed to apply for their pensions. On a former occasion, in consequence of making the fund remaining from a previous year a part of the appropriation for the invalid pensioners, it fell short upwards of 100,000 dollars, which Congress had afterwards to make up. He was, therefore, averse to diminishing this appro. priation. It was worth while to know how these unexpended balances were created. The pensions might remain uncalled for from various reasons. The pensioners might be sick at home, or it might be difficult to send for it. The moment they were able, they would empower some agent to receive it; and Congress ought to be provided against such application. If the appropriation was not made, the Committee would have done their duty, and the responsibility would rest upon the Senate.

Mr. HARRISON expressed himself satisfied with the letter read by the Secretary. Rather than that one of these veterans should suffer in any way, he should vote

for the bill.

Mr. CHANDLER said, that there seemed to be a want of information on this subject. The Clerk of the Pension Office reported that a larger sum than had been proposed Was wanted. It was, he thought, better, therefore, to get further information from the head of the Department; and he would move to-lay the bill on the table; but withdrew his motion at the request of

Mr. BRANCH, who made a few remarks. Mr. COBB said, he believed the Chairman of the Committee on Finance was about to give more than the Department asked for. The Secretary said, that but 800,000 dollars was wanted, and it seemed that there was now an inexpended balance Why should Congress give more than was needed? He was willing to vote for filling the blank with 800,000 dollars, and that appeared by the documents to be enough.

Mr. BRANCH moved to fill the blank with 800,000 dollars.

Mr. PARRIS hoped the question would be divided. He did not wish to touch the unexpended balance, but allow it to go, when the period arrived, to the surplus fund. He did not wish Congress to touch what they had no right to.

Mr. McLANE rose to make one remark. He understood the gentleman from Maine [Mr. CHANDLER] to say, that the answer to the letter of the Committee had been received from the Clerk of the Pension Office, and not from the Head of the Department, who was applied to. Mr. McL. would state to the gentleman, that these estimates were not made out by the Secretary of the Treasu ry, but by the Heads of the several Bureaus, by whom they are transmitted to the Secretary. He made this explaration, merely to show that the information had been received through the proper channel, and that no censure could be cast on the Head of the Department.

Mr. CHANDLER did not suppose that any neglect was complained of. He only went on the ground that, if information was wanted, they had better apply for it to the

VOL. IV.-8

[SENATE.

Head of the Department. He did not intend to impute censure to any one.

Mr. KING thought there was some error in this matter; and if it was referred to the proper Department, that error would be corrected. He supposed that the Secretary of the Treasury had no more to do with the estimate than any other officer. He, as the Head of the Department, transmitted the estimates made out by the Clerks of the different bureaux. Mr. K. thought the application ought to have been made to the War Department, under which the Pension Office was placed. It appeared to him that, until the Secretary of War had an opportunity of revising the appropriation, it would be improper to act upon it. At the same time, he could not but express his opinion that the appropriation was not by any means inadequate. Under these views of the subject, he moved to lay the bill on the table; which was agreed to.

CUMBERLAND ROAD.

The unfinished business of yesterday having been resumed, the bill to complete the Cumberland Road from Bridgeport to Zanesville, in Ohio, and to provide for the survey of the same from Zanesville to the Seat of Government of Missouri, was taken up.

Mr. EATON had very few remarks to make. He considered that many gentlemen had argued erroneously upon this subject, because they had predicated their remarks on wrong facts and data. In addressing the Senate, he should depend on facts alone. Whatever the opinions of gentlemen might be on the abstract question of the constitutional power of Congress, this was not a case in which that question could be legitimately agitated. The bill now before the Senate proposed nothing more than the fulfilment of a contract on the part of the United States, entered into many years since, the early stages of which had gone on uninterruptedly. The mists of constitutional scruples had been newly raised, and thrown around this object at a time when they could be least expected. He should say nothing on this head, because, in his opinion, it had nothing to do with the original compact by which the United States agreed to complete this work. He intended to show what that original compact was, and that it was a mistake, in which some of the friends of the measure partook, that the two per cent. fund, so often mentioned, had any thing to do with the agreement between the contracting parties. As far back as 1802, the plan was commenced, under the administration of Mr. Jefferson, than whom no man was more scrupulously regardful of the exact letter and meaning of the Constitution: for, said Mr. E. although I would not bow down in humble admiration of any man whose talents and virtues do not entitle him to the high character of a patriot and statesman, yet it is no humiliation to look up with reverence to the name of Jefferson. In the year 1802, Ohio was admitted into the Union; and in the act which sanctioned her admission, it was provided, that "one-twentieth part of the nett proceeds of the lands lying in said State, sold by Congress, after deducting all expenses incident to the sale, shall be applied to the laying out and making public roads, leading from the navigable waters emptying into the Atlantic, to the Ohio, to the said State, and through the same; such roads to be laid out under the authority of Congress, with the consent of the several States through which the roads shall pass.”

Thus it will be seen, that the law agreed that Congress should make roads to and through the State. If the words were not clear, the question might be made to rest on the subsequent acts of Congress, in which the same provisions were made in favor of Indiana, Missouri, and Illinois. But there they stood in the law, utterly unquestionable as to their purport and bearing. Of what benefit to Ohio, he would ask, was the completion of the Cumberland Road through Maryland and Pennsylvania to the

SENATE.]

Cumberland Road.

[JAN. 23, 1828.

borders of the Ohio? That did not fulfil the stipulation business.transactions carried on between the inhabitants that it should pass through Ohio, which had been agreed of the different sections; and such measures, Mr. E. beupon. And what did she stipulate-what did she give lieved, must be adopted, to make the citizens of this exas an equivalent? She stipulated that she would not, in tended continent one People. A perseverance in such a consideration of this promised extension of roads to and policy would soon do away all fears of discord and disunion. through her territory, exercise her sovereign power to tax There was another point of view in which every friend the domain of the United States lying within her borders. of his country would look upon this work. We are now And now (said Mr. E.) let us look at the extent of the no more secure against the occurrence of a war than at public domain in the State of Ohio, at that time; and I any former period of our political existence. Should it think it will appear that the fund to be applied by Con- come again, the safety of the country must, in a degree, gress to public works far exceeds the expenditure. He depend upon the West. He did not say this, because he would state a few facts in support of this position. From thought the Western People were better soldiers or more the year 1802 to 1815, six millions of acres had been sur- patriotic than those of the East. But we of the West veyed, and, supposing that half that amount has been have no frontier that is assailable to a foreign enemy ; and surveyed since, and the whole to have been sold at the while the soldiers of the Atlantic States will be called Government price, here is a fund of nearly twenty mil- from point to point to defend the coast from the attack of lions of dollars. Here, then, is a contract in which the an enemy's fleets, the soldiers of the West will form a United States are bound to do one thing, and the State strong reserve to aid in all emergencies for they are al to do another. The State performs its portion of the ways ready. I do not say this, proceeded Mr. E. with agreement, and the United States is bound to apply five the positive prediction that they will be wanted-but per centum on these sales. This fund would amount, on they may be-and your reliance on them may be most sales of twenty millions, to one million. Therefore, the confidential. Then, I ask, will it not be of vital impor statement that the fund had been overdrawn already, was tance to have the means of rapid and easy communication certainly not correct. Subsequently to the act of 1802, between the West and the East? Will it not be essenthe direct action of the Senate had been had in favor of tial to have the means of bringing together the whole extending the Cumberland Road still farther west. We physical energies of the country and should we not, then, find nothing more upon the subject until 1806, when justly blame any previous neglect that should have thrown Congress again took up the subject. They did not then obstacles in the way of such an important concentrasubscribe to the principle that Congress was authorized tion? to make a road without the consent of the States. But Let us suppose, for instance, that New-Orleans were it was admitted that, if that consent was obtained, it was again threatened, would she not look again to the sol a constitutional exercise of power for Congress to author-diers of the West for defence? Yes, sir, and she woul ize and complete the work. And this principle was not look in vain. Once the Western riflemen have already sanctioned by Mr. Jefferson, in consenting to the passage beaten back her assailants; and they are ready to do it of the bill. L [Mr. EATON here read a passage from a re- again. The drafts must be exorbitant indeed, that shall port made at that period.] The President was there au- absorb the courage and intrepidity of our forest soldiers. thorized to ascertain whether the States in question were Wise statesmen will look foward to changes and emerwilling to acquiesce in this exercise of power. That hav-gencies. We may think that we can take care of our ing been ascertained, Congress went on to make appro- selves; but the time may come when we shall need assis priations for the work. Therefore, Mr. E. considered tance. Against such a juncture it is our duty to provide. that no violation of the Constitution has ever taken place In peace to prepare for war, is an American maxim, which in the laws passed by Congress for the continuance of the experience has shewn us cannot be to often repeated or Cumberland Road. If Congress had a right to admit new too closely followed. States into the Union, and also the right to subject those new States to any conditions not hostile to their Republican character, then this compact was a valid one, and the faith of the Government was solemnly pledged to advance in the plan which they had commenced.

But said Mr. E., this road is important in a fiscal point of view. The reduction of the price of conveyance of the mail had been correctly stated by the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. RUGGLES.] It was also of great importance as to individual expense, and the facility it gave to our in When Virginia ceded her western territory to the ternal commerce. He recollected the time when goods United States, she ceded the right of sovereignty and carried from Philadelphia to Ohio coast ten dollars per proprietorship. Afterwards, when Ohio knocked at the hundred weight. It was now reduced to reasonable char door, Congress was in possession of the power to make ges. Cannot gentlemen see that this fact is of great imany stipulations and conditions that they might think ne-portance in a commercial relation? as, in proportion to cessary. They then said to Ohio, "Forbear to tax the pub-the facility of carriage, the amount of transportation woul lic lands, and we assure you that a substantial road shall be increase. Commerce, exterior and internal, was extend made, joining the waters of the West with the ocean." ed by such means. Is there any gentleman present, [said Mr. E.] who will This work, then, is a great national object. You made not grant that it was a great consideration to unite the a contract with the State of Ohio, which you are boun two extreme portions of this country by a substantial to fulfil, and which, also, if my arguments have not fail means of friendly and commercial intercourse? The ed, you are deeply interested in carrying into effect. The Western States were then important, and are fast becom- advantages which she would have derived from the receipt ing vastly powerful and wealthy, and claiming their full of the taxes on the public domain, would have been fat share of attention from the General Government; and greater than those she will reap from the road: for sho was it not a strong measure of expediency to seek out could have employed it better than it has been employ and carry into effect a plan for drawing their interests ed. The road now wants repair. That it must be made closely to the Atlantic States? no one doubts; yet it has often been proposed in vain. Indeed, in every instance where this road has been dis cussed we of the West have fought for it inch by inch. In other States 2 per cent. has been devoted to roads an Canals, and 3 per cent. has been taken by the States But in Ohio the whole amount has been paid to the fi vernment, so that she is under no obligation to the Uni ted States-which constitutes for her a very strong clain

The gentleman from North Carolina, [Mr. MACON,] has said, that it is vain to legislate on the affections of the People, and that a stronger influence must be exerted to draw them together. But, [said Mr. E.] to my mind, there can be no stronger bond of union than that which arises out of a community of interests. This is produced by a free exchange of products, and a continual course of