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GALES & SEATON'S

Register of Debates in Congress.

TWENTIETH CONGRESS-FIRST SESSION:

COMMENCING DEC. 3, 1827, AND ENDING MAY 26, 1828.

SENATE.] First Proceedings in Senate.-Imprisonment for Debt.-Printer to the Senate. [DEC. 3, 4, 5, 1827.

DEBATES IN THE SENATE.

MONDAY, DECEMBER 3, 1827. THE hour of twelve having arrived, the Honorable JOHN C. CALHOUN, Vice President of the United States, took the Chair. The roll of Senators having been called over by Mr. LowRIE, the Secretary, it appeared that every member was in attendance, except Mr. WEBSTER, of Massachusetts, and Mr. THOMAS, of Illinois. The oath of office was then administered to such members as, having been elected since the last session, now take their seats for six years from the present time.

On motion of Mr. MACON, the Secretary was ordered to wait upon the House of Representatives, and inform them that a quorum of the Senate was present, and ready to proceed to business. He returned, and reported that the House had not yet elected their Speaker.

IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT.

Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, then rose to give notice that, on Wednesday next, he should ask leave to introduce a bill "to abolish Imprisonment for Debt." Mr. J. accompanied this notice with a few remarks, stating his desire that this subject might receive the early attention of the Senate, so that its fate might, without farther delay, be made known to the nation. He considered it his duty to press the subject at the present session, and should have done so at the last, but he had forborne, in consideration of its being the short session of Congress, and a crowd of other business demanding the attention of the

Senate.

A message was then received from the House of Representatives by their Clerk, announcing that a quorum of that House had assembled; that ANDREW STEVENSON, of Virginia, had been elected their Speaker, and that they were ready to proceed to business.

Soon after, a second message informed the Senate that the House had passed a joint resolution, that a Committee be appointed by each House, to wait on the President of the United States, and inform him that they were ready to receive any communication he might have to make. The resolution was concurred in, and Messrs. MACON, and SMITH, of Maryland, were appointed a Committee on the part of the Senate.

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 4, 1827.

The Message, (which will be found in the Appendix,) was shortly after received from the PRESIDENT of the United States, by Mr. John Adams, his Private Secretary: and, on motion of Mr. BELL, it was ordered that three thousand copies of the Message, and one thousand five hundred copies of the documents accompanying it, be printed for the use of the Senate.

On motion of Mr, EATON, the hour to which the Senate shall stand adjourned, was fixed at 12 o'clock, until further ordered.

PRINTER TO THE SENATE.

the embarrassing situation of the Secretary of the Senate, Mr. EATON, after some prefatory remarks in relation to who was at a loss to know who was to be considered as the Senate Printer, offered the following Preamble and Resolution :

In pursuance of a joint resolution of the Senate and House of Representatives, passed in 1819, regulating the subject of printing for the two Houses, respectively, an election having been had by the Senate during the last session, for a printer to the Senate, and Duff Green hav. ing, according to the provisions of the said Resolution, received the greatest number of votes: Therefore,

Resolved, That, in the opinion of the Senate, the said Duff Green is duly elected printer to the Senate.

After a debate of some animation, in which Messrs. EATON, HAYNE, BENTON, BERRIEN, and WOODBURY, advocated, and Messrs. MACON, HARRISON, CHAMBERS, and ROBBINS, opposed the Resolution, (ineffectual attempts having been made to lay it on the table and to postpone its consideration until to-morrow,) it was carried by Yeas and Nays, as follows:

YEAS-Messrs. Barnard, Barton, Benton, Berrien, Branch, Chandler, Dickerson, Eaton, Ellis, Hayne, Johnson of Kentucky, Kane, King, McKinley, McLane, Ridgeley, Rowan, Sanford, Smith of Maryland, Smith of South Carolina, Tazewell, Tyler, White, Williams, Woodbury -25.

NAYS-Messrs. Bateman, Bell, Bouligny, Chambers, Chase, Foot, Harrison, Hendricks, Johnston of Louisiana, Knight, Macon, Marks, Noble, Parris, Robbins, Ruggles, Seymour, Silsbee, Willey-19.

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1827.

Mr. MACON, from the Joint Committee of both Houses, ppointed to wait upon the President of the United States, reported that they had done so, and had received for an- Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, agreeably to leave, in ver that the President would make a communication, introduced a bill to abolish imprisonment for debt; which writing, to both Houses, at twelve o'clock this day. was read the first time, and passed to a second reading.

VOL. IV.-1

SENATE.]

Duly on Imported Salt.-Western Arsenal.

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 6, 1827.

Mr. NOBLE, of Indiana, according to notice given yesterday, and leave obtained to-day, introduced a bill to authorize the Legislature of the State of Indiana to sell the lands heretofore appropriated for the use of schools in that State;" which was read, and passed to a second reading.

On motion, Monday next was assigned for the appointment of the Standing Committees of the Senate, to which day it adjourned:

MONDAY, DECEMBER 10, 1827.

The Annual Report of the Secretary of the Treasury was communicated by the Vice President, and 1500 copies thereof ordered to be printed. [See Appendix for the Report.]

Mr. KING obtained leave to introduce a bill declaring the assent of Congress to an act of the Legislature of Alabama, for the incorporation of the Cahawba Navigation Company; which was read the first time.

The Senate then proceeded to the election of its officers for the present Congress, when the following individuals were declared to be elected, and took the oaths of their respective offices :

WALTER LOWRIE, Secretary.

MOUNTJOY BAYLY, Sergeant-at-Arms and Doorkeeper. HENRY TIMS, Assistant Doorkeeper.

This being the day appointed for the election of the Standing Committees, the Senate proceeded to ballot for the Chairman and members of each in rotation, and elected eight Committees.

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1827.

Mr. EATON remarked, that, on inquiry of the Secretary, he had found that no rule existed as to the number of copies required by the Senate of such documents as were ordered to be printed. He therefore offered the following resolution:

[DEC. 6-13, 1827.

were able to raise the prices by a combination, whereby a heavy tax was put upon the People, and thousands of dollars realized by these speculators. It had been formerly argued, that the reduction of the duty on imported salt would injure the sale of the domestic article. This he did not think could, in any respect, be the case. The bill which he now proposed was the same as that offered last year, and contemplated a reduction, at the expiration of one year, of the present duty, from 20 to 15 cents, and the next year to 10 cents. So far as the result would affect his own State, it would be beneficial; because the salted provisions which were put down with imported and, therefore, for the prosperity of that branch of trade, salt would bear a competition with those of any country; it was requisite to obtain the imported article. came up the Ohio in steamboats, and was procured, alTo lower the duty would not inthough at a high rate. jure the manufacture, while it would protect the People to raise the prices to an exorbitant height. The bill was from those combinations by which capitalists were able then read the first time.

It now

President of the United States at the commencement of Various portions of the message communicated by the the session, were referred to their respective committees.

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 1827.
WESTERN ARSENAL.

Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, submitted the following resolution :

Resolved, That the Secretary of War, under the control of the President of the United States, be authorized and requested to instruct one or more officers of the Corps of Engineers to examine the Horse Shoe Bend, on Licking river, in the State of Kentucky, and report the practicability of establishing an armory of the United States at that place, similar to the one at Harper's Ferry or Springfield.

Mr. JOHNSON remarked, in relation to the resolution Resolved, That, unless when otherwise ordered, the which he now offered, that he had, for fifteen years, from usual number of copies of any document ordered by the time to time, submitted propositions of a similar nature to Senate to be printed, shall be 687, except bills and amend- Congress; and he believed no member had ever opposed ments, the number of which shall not exceed four hun-the proposition, either on the score of economy or prodred, to be distributed as heretofore.

The Senate then proceeded to ballot for the remainder of the Standing Committees, and made the appointments required.

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 12, 1827.

DUTY ON IMPORTED SALT.

Mr. HARRISON introduced a bill repealing, in part, the duty on imported salt, which he prefaced by a few remarks. He said that a similar measure having been before the Senate last year, upon which his conduct had been somewhat misunderstood, he wished to explain his motives in now offering this bill. It would be recollect ed that he had given his feeble efforts, last year, to sustain the bill, which underwent a full discussion. He had then supported it more from his convictions that the measure was calculated to be generally beneficial to the country, than from any knowledge that it was peculiarly desirable to his own State, although he believed Ohio would share in the benefit. The reason of his bringing forward this bill, and aiding it with his voice, was, that he was now perfectly convinced that it was as loudly called for in his own State as in any other section of the country. Not long since, there was a rise in the price of salt which had been felt severely in Ohio. This advance was produced by a combination among the capitalists engaged in the domestic manufacture, by which the article was brought up to 50 cents. The inhabitants of Ohio were, in fact, at the mercy of a few capitalists, who, at certain seasons,

priety, and yet it seemed as far from being obtained now as when it was at first introduced into Congress. A bill was proposed by him in Congress some years since, in which the President was authorized to survey and locate an armory on the Western waters, but the jealousy of the members of this and the other House, and the difference of opinion as to which State it should to be located in, had left the subject, up to this time, entirely afloat. It was true that he should prefer its location in the State of Kentucky. But it was not his intention to discuss that question now. If it could not be established in Kentucky, he was desirous that it should be elsewhere. In the surveys that had been made, the Licking Summit had been overlooked. This point was situated in the district which he formerly represented, and on that ground he was the more anxious that it should be examined and its advan tages decided upon. His resolution, therefore, went to authorize the survey. And, in advancing this wish, he was convinced that-apart from his wish to serve a People, who, of all others, had honored him with their confidence-he was advocating a plan from which public benefit and an economy of the country's resources was to result. All he wished, was, to have it settled whether or not the Licking Summit was the most eligible situation for an armory. If it should prove to be otherwise, as about thirty places had already been named, he did not doubt an advantageous site would be found. This resolution, however, he hoped, in the mean time, would be allowed to stand on its own bottom.

DEC. 14, 1827.]

Indemnification to Foreigners.-Amendment to the Rules.

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 14, 1827.

INDEMNIFICATION TO FOREIGNERS.

[SENATE.

try, and become again an American citizen, applied to the British Parliament, and received a compensation for these services. He hoped the petition would have a reMr. SMITH, of Maryland, presented the petition of ference, as justice required that some inquiry should be Robert Hall, a subject of Great Britain, praying for fur-made into the claim of the petitioner. ther indemnification for the destruction of the ship Union; which was read, and, on the question, Whether it should be referred to the Committee on Claims

Mr. EATON said, that he was opposed to the reference of a petition of this description, on the ground that the question involved in it, could be settled otherwise; and that Congress was assembled to transact the business of the citizens of this country, and not that of foreigners. If the Secretary of State could not settle the question, he did not see how Congress could do it, consistently with the principles by which it was generally governed. He therefore hoped the reference would not be made.

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, remarked, that this was a case out of the scope of the general rule to which the gentleman from Tennessee alluded. The petition and papers had been received and referred by the other House. The vessel mentioned in the petition had been seized, and the cargo forfeited, on the day after the peace. And in awarding the indemnification at a former period, instead of obtaining the invoice of the cargo taken in at Sumatra, after leaving Calcutta, the invoice of the cargo taken in at Calcutta had been resorted to. The consequence was, that an indemnification was awarded to the petitioner for less in value than the loss which he really sustained. Congress was now asked to rectify this injury, growing entirely out of a mistake, and he hoped no obstruction would be thrown in the way of such an object.

Mr. EATON said, there was, of course, nothing personal in his remarks-he only alluded to the subject, as related to the policy which ought to govern Congress in all such applications. He would ask the gentleman from Maryland, whether our citizens, going to France, and applying for any redress of wrongs, would be allowed to approach the Legislature of the country > Would our citizens be permitted to petition the French Chamber for redress for any of the numerous spoliations made upon our commerce? Every one knew that they would not. Or, would they be allowed to present their petitions to the British Parliament? It was well known, that the proper channel for such applications was through the Secretary of State. In this case, a foreigner comes for ward and asks Congress to take his case into consideration. If it was considered; if Congress did not in this instance show that such applications were not to be looked upon as regular or proper, the consequence would be, that much of their time would be taken up, to what extent could not be known, in the adjustment of the affairs of foreigners, while the concerns of our own citizens would be neglected. Let this business be done as it ought to be. Let it go to the Secretary of State, and if he could not settle it, let it be sent to the President; then, if it was necessary, from its nature, that it should be referred to Congress, the proper method would be taken: but let it not be brought here without having first been officially examined.

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, that this was not a case to which the remarks of the gentleman would apply. It appeared that it had been formerly before Congress, and being guided by incorrect documents, they had made an erroneous award. To rectify that mistake was the object of bringing it now before Congress again. This, therefore, was a different case from those to which the principle advanced by the gentleman from Tennessee would generally apply. He did not know what was the general ale in England; but he recollected one instance in which an individual who had done some service under the British Government, after having returned to this coun

Mr. HAYNE observed, that he saw some force in the objections made by the gentleman from Tennessee, The petition was presented by a British subject. That was not denied. And to him it appeared clear, that it ought to be presented officially to Congress therefore, it seemed out of order for him to petition this body. The gen tleman from Maryland had said, that this was a case pecu. liarly fitted to be laid before the Senate, because it had once before been passed upon by Congress: hence he argued that it ought to be considered again. If, as was stated, justice required that this matter should be inves tigated, there was, no doubt, a way in which it might be done. For instance, any member might present a reso lution to that effect; and if the gentleman from Maryland was acquainted with the merits of the case-as he, Mr. H., could not possibly be-a resolution from him, that the Committee of Finance inquire into the merits of the claim, would, as he apprehended, arrive at the desired result. There were but two ways in which the matter could be properly settled-either that the claim should come through the British Minister, or should be settled by a resolution authorizing its investigation by the proper committee.

Mr. BENTON was convinced that the citizens of other countries had no right to petition Congress for the adjustment of their claims. For, he contended, that while our citizens had not the same right in England, it was a pri vilege Englishmen had no right to claim in this country. It was partial and unequal. The right was secured in the Constitution, to our citizens, to petition Congress, and it was an infringement upon that right to permit foreigners to do so. If such a privilege were once accorded, there would be no possibility of measuring the inconveniences which would arise from it. The abuse of such a privilege would seriously interfere with the rights of our own citizens. He was aware of an instance in which a Frenchman had introduced a petition in the other House, which no American citizen would have introduced-and he, Mr. B. having then reflected much upon the effect of such a practice, came to the conclusion, that no foreigner ought to be allowed to petition Congress; that they had no right to do it, and that it was an encroachment upon the privileges of our own citizens. He hoped, therefore, that the rule would now be established; and that, hereafter, foreigners would be restricted to applications made through their respective Ministers. On these grounds, he was opposed to the reference of the petition.

Mr. MACON said, that, as it appeared desirable that, the petition should be examined into, in order to decide whether it was or not an improper petition, he should move that it lie on the table. He did not intend by this course to kill it, as the gentleman from Maryland could call it up at any time.

The petition was then ordered to lie on the table. AMENDMENT TO THE RULES. The following resolution, submitted by Mr. RUG GLES, yesterday, was then considered: "Resolved, That the following be added to the Rules of the Senate:

Rule 2d. As soon as the Journal is read, the business of the Senate shall be taken up as follows:

1. Resolutions of State Legislatures, petitions, and memorials, shall be presented, and disposed of. 2. Reports of Committecs, and bills introduced on leave.

3. Motions or resolutions of individual Senators.
4. Orders of the day."

SENATE.]

Western Armory-Reporters to the Senate.-Indiana School Lands.

After some conversation between Messrs. RUGGLES, FOOT, and KING, on the expediency of the Rules proposed, the resolution was, on motion of Mr. R., laid on the table, and ordered to be printed.

WESTERN ARMORY.

The resolution submitted yesterday, by Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, authorizing the survey of a site for the location of an Armory at the Horse Shoe Bend, on Licking River, was then taken up.

Mr. HENDRICKS said that he should neglect his duty were he to allow this resolution to pass without offering an amendment. As the object proposed in this examination was to choose the best site for a Western Armory, it could not be objected to that any point which was considered likely to present the advantages required, should also be surveyed, as well as the one proposed by the gentleman from Kentucky. When the surveys were formerly made in relation to this object, a site on Blue river, in Indiana, was pointed out to the surveyors; but it was not surveyed. His amendment went to propose the survey of that site, of one near Lawrenceburg, and of a site on the Wabash, near the mouth of Eel river.

Mr. NOBLE said that there were other sites, as well as those already named, which, when the matter was fairly before the Senate, he should propose for examination. He hoped the gentleman would agree with him that the subject ought to be examined thoroughly; and, in order that it might be, he should move to lay the resolution and the amendment on the table, and print them; but waived his motion to lay on the table.

Mr. KING said, he did not see the object of proposing to print the resolution and amendment. If the resolutien was to be considered, he should be under the necessity of offering another amendment, to examine a site on Cypress and Shoal Creeks in Alabama. This situation comprised manifold advantages. It enjoyed the most perfect water communication with the whole Western Country, and would afford the greatest facility to any defence the country might hereafter be called upon to make against attacks along the Gulf country Among the various advantages of this position might also be enumerated an abundance of iron ore in its vicinity, of the very best quality.

Mr. RUGGLES rose, with the remark, that he should not represent the true interests of his constituents, did he neglect to bring forward as an amendment to the resolution, a proposition to add to the sites to be examined, that of Zanesville. This place had, on a former occasion, been surveyed, and favorably reported upon; but the difficulty of transporting to it the materials for the erection of the armory, was then objected to. This objection, however, was now removed, as the Ohio Canal, constructed within two years, had obviated that difficulty, rendering Zanesville accessible by navigation of the safest description. He thought that, these being the facts, Zanesville was fully entitled to a re-examination. It would be also recollected, that it was within 100 miles of the Lakes, and the communication was free and direct with Lake Erie, through which this country was most likely to be attacked in case of war.

Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, said, that, to save time and trouble, he would offer another resolution, (as we understood him,) similar to that offered and amended last year, and comprising all the sites then proposed.

[He was informed by the Chair, that it was out of order to offer any other, until that now before the Senate should be disposed of.]

He then moved to withdraw the resolution under consideration; which was agreed to.

On motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, it was ordered that, when the Senate adjourn, it adjourn until Monday next. The Senate adjourned.

[DEC. 17, 1827.

MONDAY, DECEMBER 17, 1827.

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, from the Committee of Finance, reported a bill to reduce, in part, the duty on im. ported salt, without amendment.

REPORTERS TO THE SENATE.

The following resolution, submitted by Mr. HARRISON, or Friday, was taken up.

Resolved, That the Secretary, under the direction of the President of the Senate, cause seats to be prepared upon the floor of the Senate Chamber, for the accommodation of the Reporters of the proceedings of the Senate. Mr. HARRISON remarked, that, for introducing this proposition, he had but one reason. It was, that the seats, now occupied by the Reporters, were so situated, that it was impossible for them to hear those Senators who were out of their view. He knew that the difficulties they now labored under were very great: for he himself had been made to say things that he had never conceived, which he readily believed arose from the impossibility that the Reporters could catch distinctly what passed in the body of the Senate. It must be perfectly obvious to all, that, as the seats of the Senators were now arranged, this difficulty must exist. For his own part, he had never experienced any inconvenience from the manner in which the seats were formerly arranged, but this was a serious evil, arising out of the recent change, which he wished to see removed. If the People were interested in knowing what passed in the Senate, and, if it was proper that it should be reported, it was highly desirable that it should be correctly reported. This could not be done in the present location of the Reporters. For this reason he had introduced this resolution.

Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, remarked, that he was in favor of the arrangement proposed; and was sensible of the inconveniences now experienced by the Reporters. He had seen some of the effects of the difficulty they had in hearing-as his friend from Missouri had been reported, in one of the papers, to have introduced a bill for a still further reduction of our little army of 6,000 men, when, in reality, he had only brought in a bill to explain a previous act, making that reduction; which had produced great anxiety among those whose interests seemed likely to be affected. It was impossible for the Reporters, under present circumstances, to give the proceedings more correctly than they did; and he hoped they would be so placed as to be enabled to perform their duties more satisfactorily. It was unnecessary to say how much the public was interested in having the reports correctly made.

Mr. CHANDLER expressed himself in favor of the object of the resolution; but suggested that it would be better to modify it in such a manner as to give the Reporters a wider range. It might be found that the floor would not be the most eligible situation.

The CHAIR observed, that the object of the gentleman from Maine would be answered by striking out the words "on the floor of the Senate Chamber," which would leave the location of the seats at the discretion of the President and Secretary.

Mr. HARRISON expressed his acquiescence in the suggestion, and moved the striking out; which was agreed to. The resolution, as modified, was then adopted.

SCHOOL LANDS IN INDIANA.

The bill to authorize the State of Indiana to sell the lands hitherto appropriated to the use of Schools in that State, was read a second time.

Mr. BENTON said, that he hoped no sale of lands by the Legislature of that State would be made suddenly. He thought it would be better if a precaution were taken, in relation to the disposal of these lands, by inserting a clause, deferring the sale until another election should have taken place, and another stated session of the Legis.

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