Q. Do you remember at what time it was ordered by the Canal Board to be opened?

A. I think it was on the 6th of May.

Q. At what time was it actually opened and ready for navigation? A. It can hardly be said to be so yet; the first arrival of boats upon the canal was about the 28th or 29th, or perhaps nearly the 1st of June.

Q. At what time did a boat pass through from here to Troy?
A. I cannot say; about the same

time.

Q. Navigation did not commence until about the 1st of June, in any form?

A. No, sir.

Q. What interruptions to through navigation have there been since?

A. The principal interruption has been at Moseskill lock.
Q. How long was that?

A. That continued at frequent intervals up to near the 20th of June, I think; there would be days when it would be passable for a day or two, and then the water was drawn again to get it repaired; and there has been no continued navigation until within a few days. Q. How long has there been continued navigation?

A. There has not been continued navigation yet. There is a detention at the three mile level to-day or yesterday; and that kept boats from passing.

Q. So that there is no continued open navigation yet?

A. It can scarcely be called so.

Q. What individual, specific detention, at particular points, do you know of?

A. Making occasional detentions; at Moseskill lock, the twelve mile level, the three mile level near Waterford, and the detention on this level, the five mile level here.

Q. How long did the break at Smith's Basin detain the navigation?

A. From Sunday morning until the Friday following, I think. That is the twelve mile level.

Q. Have you prepared a statement of the damages to the forwarders and business public arising from these detentions upon the Champlain canal, in the present season?

Witness produced the following estimate:

Memorandum for Canal Committee, June 24, 1867.

Date of first clearance
at Whitehall.

1860, April 27,

1861, May 1,

...

....

Whole number,
June 24.

1,210

720

823

Clearances from Whitehall up to June 24,...

And this is

less than the average for the previous seven years. caused entirely by breaks and detentions in navigation, as in conse quence of previous notices, forwarders and boatmen were ready to commence work and were kept on expenses from May 6-many from May 1.

Tolls on these 364 cargoes, average 20,....

$7,280

.....

7,280

Q. Is that statement prepared according to your best judgment and belief from the facts and circumstances within your knowledge? A. A portion of it is based on the facts in the collector's office; and the results are simply estimates from the best belief I had upon the subject.

Q. The statement of the number of clearances in the several years is based upon actual examination at the collector's office? A. Yes, sir.

Q. The freight charges here stated on down cargoes and returns and way shipments is based upon estimate?

A. From the average of what our own boats are doing, in the same kind of work.

Q. And from your knowledge of the number of the boats?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. In your judgment, is that estimate low or high?

A. I endeavored to make it according to my own ideas of the truth; but other forwarders have pronounced it too low. Q. In your judgment is it low enough?

A. Yes, sir; I intended to make it safe in that respect.

Q. Can you state any facts with. regard to the break upon the twelve-mile level, showing that the repair was inefficiently conducted?

A. I did not see the break myself; the information I had at the time was that it was supposed that the railroad suffered quite as much damage as the canal; that the water overflowing from the canal had washed away the track quite as much as the canal; the railroad was in repair on Monday, and the canal on the Friday following.

Q. Have you visited the Moseskill lock?

A. I was there; yes, sir.

Q. Since navigation opened?

A. Yes, sir; since its pretended opening.

Q. State any facts within your knowledge that show the condition of that work.

A. The conclusion of my own mind was that the trouble originated in the mistake of the engineer, in the commencement, or the foundation of it, its location, and the progress of the work from its location; the location for the lock placed the ground upon which the embankment was to be constructed so near the creek, and so narrow, that it [CON. No. 40.]

47

was impossible to get the proper base for the embankment without filling up the creek in the start; had that been done in March, February, or April, making a broad base for the embankment and filling it in with proper material, there would have been no necessity for any break at all.

Q. Might it not have been done the preceding year?

A. It might have been.

Q. Was it not so laid that navigation could have been continued while building the new lock?

A. It was; it could easily have been done in that way.

Q. Are there any other facts that occur to you, showing impropriety or neglect?

A. None; my judgment is formed from results, and not from actual acquaintance with the work.

Q. Will you state to the committee any facts within your knowledge, and your opinion thereon, with regard to the care and management of the canals, as done by the State, compared with that as done by the contractors, stating their comparative merits?

A. My impression is that the capacity of the canal for the transaction of business was quite as great under the former system as it is now. Perhaps it is not all properly chargeable to the contract system, however, for the reason that the enlargement of the prism of the canal has not kept pace with the enlargement of the locks. The enlargement of the locks allowed the introduction of a larger class of boats than had before been used; and the capacity of the canal is not sufficient to allow them to pass on without obstruction. There has been no pretense or attempt to enlarge or widen the prism, until within a year or two; and that attempt has been a failure pretty much, I think; because it has not been done; the enlargement has not been made. It has not been deepened and widened sufficiently until within a year to allow boats to pass unobstructed; and there are points now where they cannot pass.

Q. State the mode of depositing the earth that has been taken from the canal?

A. That I can only state from information. Passing on the road I have noticed that it has been thrown out on the tow-path and the heel-path; and before the water was let into the canal, I noticed where it had washed back into the canal, forming bars; I have noticed this on the twelve-mile level and on the level above.

Q. Are there any other facts within your knowledge with regard to the difference in the practical working of these two systems, that' will furnish aid to the committee?

A. There are none that occur to me now, sir.

By the counsel.

Q. In connection with your estimate, are there more boats now than any previous year ready for navigation?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And, if navigation was as good, there would be an increase, instead of a decrease?

A. Yes, sir; I think so.

Q. Under the State system, was it the custom for the State to have extra gates, lock-gates, &c., on hand, ready, so that, in case of break, they could be put in immediately?

A. Yes, sir; and material, all on hand ready to supply any injury. Q. Are you aware that they have any such things on hand now? A. I am not aware of any.

Q. Do you think it would be cheaper for the forwarders and boatmen to keep the canal in repair at their own expense, than to suffer these detentions?

A. I have expressed that opinion very often. I think they would be willing to try it for a year, at all events.

Q. Letting the State have the whole of the tolls?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. [By Mr. GIBSON.] In the loss which you have estimated in this paper, have you included the item of a permanent loss of business, from a delay of four, five or six weeks at the commencement of the season? Or is that made up in any short time? A. It is a matter simply of estimate; and there is a view in which it is beyond estimation; because these delays may involve the destruction of half the business men of the north. Acceptances upon property, drafts made upon it, and the failure of property to arrive in the market to meet these acceptances; may upset half the business men in the north, and make it necessary for them to go through bankruptcy, and involve failures. That view of the case cannot be met by estimates. My estimate was simply to cover the direct losses from this delay. But the forwarder loses his hold upon his customers in the future, and the customers of the route become disgusted with it, and say they will seek other ways of reaching the market, by railroad, or by sea, or any other way they can.