Q. Are they insufficient in number to man the locks?

A. I could not say as to that as to number.

Q. As to habits of intemperance?

A. I do not think, judging of the men from knowing them many years, that they are such men as I should want in the position, if the matter were my own.

Abraham Knights, sworn and examined by the Counsel.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Whitehall.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Boatman.

Q. Captain of a boat?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is the name of your boat?

A. The "John Campbell."

Q. Were you at the Dunham's Basin waste weir, about the time, or soon after the time of the break last Sunday week?

A. I was there from about eleven o'clock in the forenoon, Sun. day, a week ago, untill about three in the afternoon; I came upon the level about nine o'clock Saturday night.

Q. From the South?

A. From the South. I got to Dunham's Basin about ten o'clock the next morning; I stopped above the lock; I laid over there; my team was somewhat tired and the rain commenced.

Q. When you got there how did you find that waste weir?

A. I found the State boat drawed out of the basin, lying fore and aft right in front of the waste weir, the whole length of it, lapped on each side of it, sunk;-an old State boat. I found another boat by the name of "Holmes," hauled out and lying athwartship of the canal. I said to the man at the lock, why not take your team and haul that boat to pieces or get it away from the waste weir, and haul this boat back into the basin so that boats can come in. Said he, I won't have that boat hauled back into the basin. Said I, it won't do to have it here; it is in the way, and it will form a bar here, and I said, I ain't going to have it lie there; I am going on. And I got my team out and hitched on to that boat, and got permission of the captain and pulled her back, although the man at the lock said not to pull her back.

Q. That was a canal boat?

A. Yes, sir; a loaded boat laying athwartship of the canal; after I had pulled her back into the basin. I went up, and a number of light boats started, and went on, and got as far as the south side of the waste weir, where the State boat iay. She lay crossing the waste weir, and the creek coming in, so that she throwed a bar across the canal. I struck that bar, and found there was more water close to the towpath. I said to that man, if you will shut your wickets back for five minutes, I can get along. He said, no; the banks will break this side. Well, says I; I will take my team, and you can take your own team, and another team, and I will help get this boat out of the waste weir, and then you can draw the level down as low as you have a mind to.

Q. Was the waste weir then closed?

A. It was wide open but of no use; this boat athwartship stopped it up, and there was more water going out over the bank north of the bar than through the waste weir; the water was going over the bank and wearing; he says, I will do it as soon as I eat my dinner; says I, will you do it? and I went up and got Capt. Woodward to say he would put his team on, and he said he would be there in a short time; and I ate my dinner and went out, and it was raining and I couldn't get none of them out in the rain. I looked for the captain of the State boat, but I could not find him, and so I started my boat on. I found the water going down so fast I knew there was a break, and so I snubbed my boat and went on to see where the break was. footed it to Smith's and found there was a break this side of there. That was about five o'clock in the afternoon. I found there Charlie Harris, young Charlie Harris, and he told me where the break was. I asked him what time he got up, what time the waste weirs were hoisted, or, in the first place, says I, what have you been doing to get so wet? He said, I have been at work all day. The first thing this morning I had to start and go to Kingsbury and get Charley to come out-there is another of them; there are two of them.

Q. Which one was it that you saw?

A. The older one. He said he found the streets in Kingsbury all flooded. That was ten o'clock in the forenoon. He stood and talked with me a while, and I asked, why didn't they hoist these waste weirs along here. Says he, I don't know, I supposed they were hoisted.

Q. Did he tell you at what time they were hoisted?

A. No; he didn't say a word about it; I asked him then what time he got up; and he said he got up about 5 o'clock or thereabouts, Sunday morning; the break had occurred at 5.

Q. He did not pretend that the gates had been hoisted before he got up?

A. No; the man at Durham's basin told me they were not hoisted until 5 o'clock; then the next night I was with Charley on the level, and he told me he gave orders to hoist the gates. Q. Was that the next day?

A. No; it was not the nex day I was with Charley; this occur

red on Sunday, and it was on Thursday I was with Charley. Q. Which Charley was this?

A. The older one.

Q. For distinction we will call one old Charley and the other young Charley; what did old Charley tell you?

A. He said he was up that night; and he was at Fort Ann, and found the level two inches below low water mark; and he told them to keep watch of it and draw the level down in case it should rise any; he went on, he said, as far as Smith's, and from there he went home, at 10 o'clock at night.

Q. At that time he did not open them?

A. No, nor told them to open them. He went right home, you know, and didn't come back again until he was sent for, Sunday, at ten o'clock. It was still rainy-pouring right down.

Q. Who is this young Charley? His son?

A. No, a counsin of his; one of the surveyors-or engineers, I mean-assistant engineer. Helps carry rods and poles.

Q. What is old Charley's duty?

A. He is engineer.

Q. Not under the contractor directly?

A. Engineer under Watkins. There was three of them; Watkins and the two Harrises.

Q. How late was it when you left Dunham's Basin?

A. I left Dunham's Basin about half past three, in the afternoon of Sunday; and the old boat yet lay across the waste weir, and the captain I could not find. He had gone to the break this side; so I understood.

Q. At what hour did this break occur-the one to the north of you?

A. I think I understood that it occurred about five o'clock in the

morning.

Q. It did not make headway to draw the canal until the afternoon? A. No; the canal was flooded and flowed over; in some places a foot and a half over the towpath; when I towed up, with one team, I could not think of towing by the feeder

Q. Which way did the current run?

A. From Dunham's Basin toward the South. I never towed to Fort Edward when it ran stronger.

Q. From Dunham's Basin was there a current North?

A. Yes, sir; from Dunham's Basin it ran North strong; and from Dunham's Basin it ran South strong; it was something never seen before; it ran strong both ways from Dunham's Basin, whereas the current ought to have been both ways from the feeder; in conse quence of the boat's lying across the canal.

Q. How long did that boat lie there?

A. She lay there from the time they hoisted the waste weir-five o'clock. The captain told me he had got flooded in there about five o'clock.

Q. Who was the captain?

A. I don't know his name; a large, portly man; I don't know that I ever see him before. The boat lying there across the canal was the Holbrook.

Q. The captain of the State boat told you that it had been sucked in there about five o'clock?

A. Yes, sir, and it lay there; and the other boat lay there until I took my own team and drew it in.

The Committee took a recess until one o'clock P. M.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

Julian A. Watkins, sworn and examined by Mr. Gibson.

Q. What is your residence?

A. Whitehall.

Q. What is your business?

A. Civil engineer.

Q. How long have you resided at Whitehall?

A. Always; thirty-five years.

Q. Have you been intimately acquainted with the Champlain

canal during that time?

A. I have for the last seventeen or eighteen years.

Q. Have you been an engineer upon it?

A. Since 1851.

Q. In the employ of the State at any time?

A. More or less by the State.

Q. All the time?

A. Yes, sir; since 1851.

Q. Under the direction of the State Engineer?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you give the dates of your appointments for the last five years under the State Engineer, and the length of service you have had?

A. I commenced working two years ago last April under the direction of Mr. Jenne, in 1865, and have been at work ever since under his direction.

Q. What is your position?

A. Assistant Engineer.

Q. There is no resident engineer here?

A. No, sir; there is one at Albany.

Q. You are assistant engineer, in the employ and pay of the State-under the appointment of the Canal Board?

A. No, sir; only appointed by Jenne.

Q. That has continued at all times since 1865 ?

A. Yes, sir; some time in April, 1865.

Q. During that time has it become your duty to measure this section of the canal, and the work done upon it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Upon this section?

A. That is all, sir.

Q. Briefly state your duties?

A. Well, sir, I was an assistant until a year ago, the first of April; Mr. Barnes was the engineer in charge at that time, and he resigned; and since that time I have made all measurements for excavations.

Q. Were the original estimates furnished by you?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you furnish them to the engineer from which he makes his estimates?