When it is by banks, the clerk goes up there and it goes through the same process. At the time the Auditor marked these drafts, he asked me if they were going through any banks, and I told him they were not. Q. After they are marked you are sure to get the money? A. Yes, sir; if he refuses to mark them that blocks your game. Q. Have you got that contract you made with Wood as to that $1,000? A. No, sir; I have not the one that was made between us, but I have one that was drawn in Wood's handwriting explaining this whole matter, and which I refused to sign; it is in the hands of S. D. Luce, my attorney. James J. Belden, called as a witness, and being duly sworn, testified as follows: Q. [By Mr. MITCHELL.] Where do you reside? A. Syracuse. Q. Have you been a canal contractor? A. I have.. Q. How long? A. About twelve years it has been Q. Were you present at the lettings on the 28th of December last, at Albany. A. No, sir. Q. Were you present at the time the bids were put in, the time they had a meeting at Stanwix Hall? A. I was in Albany at that time; I think I was not present at the time of the letting, the time of the awards. Q. I mean the time this meeting was held at Stanwix Hall among the contractors to get up a combination? A. Well, I was in Albany about there; I don't know as I can answer that intelligently. Q. Were you in a room at Stanwix Hall when Case was Chairman, with other contractors? A. Yes, sir. Q. What time was that meeting organized by the appointment of Case? A. I don't know; I did not know there was any regular organization? Q. When he was appointed Chairman ? A. Probably I was not in when it was done; I was in and out. Q. What was the object of that meeting; were the sections put up to the highest bidder and auctioned off? A. No, I should not say that; nobody had power to sell them. Q. Were they bid on among yourselves, to buy up the bids and propositions? A. Well, there was an understanding there to effect a combination or an agreement among themselves by which they would get better prices than to bid against each other. Q Was Mr. Thomas Gale the auctioneer that put the bids up? A. I don't remember of that. Q. Was there an auctioneer? A. Not that I remember of; I was not in all the while. Q. Section number one was put up and bid off, was it not? A. Well, that is not what I should call it; they did not bid on the section; they could not, for they did not have it. Q. Was not this the fact, that section number one, for instance, was taken, and then it was asked who would give the most for it, and that the man who bid it off among yourselves would have the control of all the bids? A. Yes, sir. Q. Section No. 1 was bid off by Gale among yourselves, there? A. Not according to my understanding. Q. There were quite a number of parties interested in Gale's bid -yourself, and Dennison and Hirsch and Peterson? A. Yes. Q. That $12,000 was what it cost outside of yourselves, I sup pose? A. I could not swear. Q. Mr. Hirsch refused to go in, and was making trouble? A. Yes. Q. You had to take him in; he wanted to bid alone for the contract? A. I did not so understand it. Q. He made some trouble? A. Well, not that I know of, more than others. Q. He was taken in by an understanding that he was to have an interest. A. Yes. Q, After this was bid off, then was it bid off again among your selves-between you and Peterson and Dennison and Gale and Hirsch-so as to narrow those that were in? A. No, they did not. Q. Were these men bought off for $21,000? Mr. Peterson and Hirsch went out? A. I have no definite knowledge in regard to it. Q. Don't you know that they were got out and the ring, made smaller so far as that bid was concerned? A. I know that they disposed of their interest in it. Q. Immediately after or soon after? A. I could not say the day; it was soon after; it was not that day. Q. As a partner did you not so understand it at the time? Q. Did you understand it as a partner at the time? A. I am swearing to the truth, and to the whole truth. As to what I may believe, is that a proper thing? Q. The question is, did you understand from your other partners that that was done-put up and bid off again so as to limit it, and you and Gale and Dennison got it? A. No, sir. Q. Did you understand as a partner interested in that thing that it was put up a second time and bid off at any price? A. No, sir. Q. Did you understand it was bid for the second time? Q. How was it done? A. I understood there was a bargain made in some way in which those men's interests were disposed of. Q. At what price? A. I could not tell without figuring and looking; I don't know what the price was that they got. Q. You know about what it was? A. Do you mean what they got or what the rate for the whole section would have been? Q. Well, take the rate for the whole. A.. Reserving our own interest when they paid? Q. Yes. A. Well, my impression is that it was not far from $20,000. Q. Then after this arrangement, you had control, or Gale did, of all the bids for that section of the parties represented at the meeting? A. Do you speak now of the first or the last meeting? Q. The first meeting? A. The first meeting I don't understand that they had control of the bids. Q. Were not the bids handed over to the parties that bid them off? A. Not in all cases; they understood that they were to be above a certain price, or they were to control the price. Q. The party that got it was to have the section anyway? A. Yes, at what it went for. Q. And he was to control the bids that went in ? A. Well, I am not clear on that; I am clear on this, that the party paying the money was to have the section at what it went for. Q. Are you not clear that he was to have control of the bids and make just as many of them informal as he chose? A. I don't know as there was any talk of that kind; that was the effect I think? SO. Q. Bids were made informal there just as they chose? A. I don't know of any case, although I don't doubt of that being Q. That was the effect of the transaction? A. Yes. Q. The letting was to close at twelve o'clock by the first advertisement? A. Yes, sir. Q. Before twelve o'clock did yourself, Mr. George Lord, Tom Gale, Johnson, Bangs and others go up to see the Contracting Board to produce an adjournment? A. No, sir. Q. Did you leave that room and go up where the Board was? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it talked there whether contractors should see certain members of the contracting Board? A. No, sir; not to my knowledge. Q. Was it arranged there that you were to see Bruce? A. No, sir. Q. Was it arranged there that Gale was to see the Auditor? A. No, sir; not to my knowledge. Q. That you swear to positively? A. I do sir, in both cases. Q. Was it arranged there that Johnson was to see Dorn? Q. That you swear positively to? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you see Bruce after you got up there where they were sitting, and talk with him? A. Not privately; no more than in the room, publicly. Q. Did you see him and talk with him when you reached the State buildings, after you left this room at the Stanwix? A. I talked with the members of the Board collectively, not individually. Q. Did you talk with Mr. Bruce alone? A. No, sir. Q. Did you talk with him addressing him? A. Not directly; I had some talk. Q. Did you ask for an adjournment? A. I don't think I did. Q. Did you speak on the subject of an adjournment? A. Well, that I am not certain about. Q. Is it not perfectly true that that Board was urged to adjourn by different men that went from that room at Stanwix Hall at twelve o'clock-did you not hear the Board urged to adjourn? A. If you will allow me to tell what there was about that, I will make it very short. Q. Don't you know that the Board was requested there, in your hearing, different members of it, and as a Board, to hold open until four o'clock ? A. I think that I heard a request made publicly before the Board, parties claiming that they had an interest in propositions, parties coming from New York, who were detained with the train, and asked for an adjournment on that ground, publicly. |