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Language cannot be broader than that, view to meet this very point, it makes the except as it might affect the market value of "of every kind whatever, except for interest upon exception to depend upon the fact that the the bonds. Sir, you cannot pay in gold any bonds and notes which shall be paid in coin, and shall also bclawful money and a legaltender in pay
obligation is payable in currency by the act bonds, the five-twenties, the ten-forties or any ment of all debts, public and private, within the
that creates the obligation. Now, let us strike other kind until you have returned to specie United States, except duties on imports and interest out those words and make it applicable to payments, and after you have returned to specie as aforesaid."
the payment of all obligations except where payments you will have nothing to pay any There these notes are made by law applica: the law, some other law perhaps, the legal. bonds with but gold or its eqnivalent. Eren ble to the payment of every claim and demand
tender acts permit that obligation to be paid those bonds expressly payable in currency will against the United States of wbatsoever kind
in legal-tender notes. It is a mere quibble to be paid in gold or its equivalent after you have
say that because the right to pay the obligation returned to specie payments, because you will act further declares that they
in legal-tender notes does not exist in the act have nothing else to pay them with, and if any "Shall also be lawful money and a legal tender in creating the bonds, therefore it is not applica of these bonds shall fall due before you return payment of all debts, public and private, within tho
ble. If it is found in another law of the same United States, except duties on imports and interest
to specie payments you cannot pay them in as aforesaid.
date, or of antecedent date, it is just as much gold. It is impossible for this Government to Language cannot be broader, cannot be more a part of the contract, it is just as much a part | get gold on a depreciated currency of from comprehensive than this; and this is a part of of the right of the Government as if it was twenty-five to thirty per cent. depreciation. It the contract between the Government and contained in the act creating the obligation. is impossible for the Government to get gold to every purchaser of a bond created subsequent | Therefore, by striking out these words the sec pay any of these bonds, no difference what to that time, except where the creation of that tion will read in this way :
ihe obligation is, and in point of fact so far bond is excepted from its operation, as it was “ Except in cases where the law has expressly pro
as future results are concerned it makes no dif. in the ten-forty act. It is a part of the con
vided that the same may be paid in lawful money or ference what may be the character of the con. tract, although it is not contained in the same othor currency than gold and silver."
tract. What these bonds shall finally be paid identical act of Congress that creates the bonds.
There can be no objection to striking out the in will depend upon our condition at that time. It is the law, in full force and operation when
words I have indicated unless it is intended by If we have returned to specie payments we all these bonds were sold, and is in force to-day.
a quibble to take advantage of the fact that the shall pay them in gold; if we have not we can. But, sir, it does not stop there. Then we
legislative act making these notes applicable not pay them in gold, no difference what the bave the next act of Congress of July 11, 1862,
to the payment of these debts is not in the contract is. So that all the legislation of this creating the next $150,000,000 of these notes,
identical act creating the bonds, but is in kind is superfluous, except that it may operate which declares:
another act which is in full force and operation upon the present market value of the bonds. "And such notes shall be receivable in payment
to-day, and was when these bonds were sold. My views from the beginning have been in favor of all loans made to the Uaited States, and of all Mr. MORRILL. It does not lie in the
of a return to specie payınents, and if Contaxes, internal duties, excises, debts, and demands of every kind due to the United States, except duties on power of the Senator from Indiana, able as he
gress had directed its attention less to the char. imports and interest, and of all claims and demands is, to revive any interest on this question, which acter of the contract in regard to the bonds against the United States except for interest upon has been thoroughly discussed in both branches and more to making provision for a return to bonds, notes, and certificates of debt or deposit."
of Congress and for a long time; and no act specie payments it would have been better for Nothing can possibly be left out of the char of Congress has been passed at this or any the bondholders and for the people this day. acter of debts which tbese notes will pay except | immediate preceding session which has received | The resumption of specie payments is the startthose things that are comprehended under the a warmer greeting from the people than this ling point. I do not care what the character exceptions which are “duties on imports and
I am somewhat surprised at the of the contract is and I do not care how you interest as aforesaid.” It goes on to say that position taken by the distinguished Senator || legislate, there is the starting point, and when such notes
from Indiana, for I believe he goes further that is accomplished all the rest settles itself. "Shell also be lawful money and a legal tender in than even our ancient friend Pendleton on this Mr. President, this bill does contain one payment of all debts, public and private, within the United States except duties on imports and interest
subject. His amendment goes so far as to pro provision that I am glad of, and it is this: is aforesaid." pose to pay in paper money debts that were
And the United States also solemnly pledges its That law is a part of the contract under contracted in 1848. I do not suppose that a faith to make provision at the earliest practicable which all of these bonds were subsequently proposition of that kind would receive the vote period for the redemption of the United States notes wid. The acts of Congress creating these bonds of more than a single Senator. I supposed
in coin. do not say in what kind of money they shall be when this bill was introduced that it was some
Sir, that is worth all the rest. It will do paid; but other acts of Congress prescribe the object to retain precisely the verbiage of the more than all the rest to strengthen the public kind of money that shall be applicable to the act as it passed at the last session. I there credit. Who can doubt it? And in view of payment of every dollar due from the United fore was willing to retain this second sectioa, this solemn pledge this Congress ought not to States except interest on bonds and notes. although quite ready to have it stricken out adjourn without making some provision for the Let me turn over to another act of Congress, after the word proposed by the Senator from purpose of redeeming the United States notes the act of March 3, 1863, authorizing the issue Michigan was inserted before the word “con. in coin according to the terms of this solemn of more of these notes :
tract," which to some extent modified it. I promise; and when that is done all the rest " Which notes so issued shall be lawful money, and
trust we shall be able to reach a vote before adjusts and settles itself. a legal tender in payment of all debts, public and we adjourn to-day on this subject and have an Mr. President, I am very glad, as I had private, within the United States." end of it,
occasion to say at the last session just before Are these bonds a public debt? Undoubt Mr. MORTON. Just one word. My friend the adjournment, that this pledge is made; edly they are. Every debt that is owed by the from Vermont does not understand Mr. Pen. and it will be the first duty of Congress to take General Government is a public debt; and in dleton's positon or he does not understand steps for the redemption of it. The United this third act of Congress—there is another mine. What is Mr. Pendleton's position, for States notes are now due. Thie bonds are not one still-it is declared that these notes shall which he has become somewhat notorious in due. We have gold in the Treasury which it be applicable to the payment of all public | this country? It is that the Government has was proposed by a bill which has just been debts, except that part of the public debt which the right now, after the bonds have been sold, defeated to apply not to the redemption of consists of interest on notes and bonds : to issue new legal.tender notes and make them United States notes, but to the purchase of
" Except for duties on imports and interest on the applicable to the payment of these old bonds. our bonds in the market. That bill is not now public debt; and any of the said notes, when returned to the Treasury, may be reissued from time to
Those who are at all familiar with what I have before Congress, and I trust no such provision time as the exigencies of the public service may
this floor from the first know that I ever will be presented again. According to require." have always denied that right.
this pledge contained in this section the first Now, Mr. President, there are three acts of Mr. MORRILL. But the distinguished gen. duty of Congress will be to take steps to apply Congress about the construction of which, it | tleman from Ohio never proposed to pay bonds that gold and that which we may hereafter acseems to me, there can be no mistake. Broader, in currency that were contracted before the quire not to the purchase of bonds in the mar. more comprehensive, and explicit declarations
ket, which will not be due for ten 'or fifteen of the law-making power I have never read; Mr. MORTON. That is not in the question. years, but to the redemption of that part of and when the first one begins with the declara: The Government has steadily, I believe, with: the debt which is now due, and for the redemp. tion that these notes shall be lawful money and out objection on the part of anybody, paid in tion of which in coin the faith of the Goveri.
legal tender in payment of all claims and gold ail our old bonds that were issued before inent is solemnly pledged-redemption not by demands against the United States of whatso. the legal-tender acts were enacted, because the contraction, not by funding them into tenever kind, is anything left out there except the contracts were made before those acts were forty bonds or any other kind of bonds, but exception which follows in the language of the passed ; and even the bonds of 1881, as they the redemption of these notes by paying them stainie, except interest on notes and bonds ! are called, the sixes of 1861 that are payable in coin. This is the solemn pledge, and this And then this language is repeated three tiines in 1881, which were authorized before the part of the bill is right. In fàci I look on all afterward in different acts of Congress, so that legal-tender notes were passed, have always the rest as being no better than "leather and although the acts creating these bonds are been held to be bonds payable in gold. So prunella.” silent as to how the principal of the bonds that the question of old bonds issued before Mr. MORRILL. A single word in explanashall be paid, yet the acts creating the notes the war began is not involved here at all. tion. I did not mean to misrepresent the Senterlare that they shall be applicable to the pay I am speaking merely of the construction of ator from Indiana in relation to his position on ment of every debt against the United States the law. I have said time and time again in this question. As I understood ihe distin except the interest on that debt.
this Seuate that any action upon this subject | guished candidate of the Democracy in 1864 for dis ibis bill is drawia, and it is drawn with a was unnecessary and would amount to nothing the Vice Presidency, he never proposed to pay
the bonds of 1881 nor the ten-forties in paper bend my position. This section contains a can call upon the civilized world for assistcurrency; and yet the proposition of the Sen declaration of the meaning of the original laws ance, and they will have confidence in our ator from Indiana in his amendment would go upon the subject. It is to remove all doubts | promises, would not this measure be justified? is that extent, for it would leave all the bonds and to settle the construction of those laws. The PRESIDING OFFICER, År. ANnot specifically payable in specie by their terms It gives to those laws a construction that I do THONY in the chair.) The question is on the to be paid in currency. We never enacted not believe in and that I have shown is con amendment of the Senator from Indiana, upon until the commencement of the war any pro tradicted by at least four acts of Congress. I which the yeas and nays have been asked for. vision that any bonds should be payable in agree that I want these bonds paid in gold ; The yeas and nays were ordered. specie.
but I want everybody to be paid in gold or its Mr. MORTON. Let it be read. Mr. CORBETT. There is one thing that equivalent; I want my private debts paid to The Cmer ClErk. It is proposed in the my friend from Indiana bas lett out. The me in gold; and therefore I have made it a twelfth and thirteenth lines of the first section original acts provided that the holders of legal starting point in my whole financial views, as to strike out the words " authorizing the issue tender notes should have a right to fund them I have entertained ihem, that a return to specie of any such obligation;" so as to make the in United States bonds, and it was the inten payments is the first thing, because then the clause read: lion to give them the right to place all the legal Government creditors and private creditors It is hereby provided and declared that the faith tender potes into bonds. If they were entirely and everybody will be paid in gold or its equiv of the United States is solennly pledged to the payout of the way what should we bave to pay alent.
ment in coin or its equivalent of all the obligations with except gold or silver? That is the ques Mr. WILLIAMS.
of the United States, not bearing interest, known as Mr. President, views
United States notes, and of all the interest-bearing Lion. The point is whether you shall issue new have been advanced in this nation, and in obligations of the United States, except in cases notes and take up the bonds with them again, dorsed by a very large number of people, to
where the law has expressly provided that the same when the original law provided that the holders || the effect that these obligations of the Govern
may be paid in lawful money or other currency than
gold and silver. of the notes should have a right to convert them ment might be discharged by an unlimited issue into bonds. You have repealed the law which
Mr. GRIMES. I desire to enter a motion of Treasury notes; and the circulation of such provided that they could fund them into United an opinion, in my judgment, has greatly dam.
to reconsider the vote by which the Senate States bonds, but there was an implied obliga aged the credit of this nation and cost it mil.
agreed that when it adjourns to-day it adjourn lion when you issued the notes that the holders lions of dollars. Other gentlemen, not quite
to meet on Monday. should have a right to fund them into interest so extreme in their views, have advanced the
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The quesbearing bonds, provided you could not pay them doctrine that no matter what might be the value
tion is on the amendinent of the Senator froin off in gold and silver, and that those bonds of the Treasury notes now in circulation, these
Indiana. should bear gold interest. obligations should be paid in those Treasury
Mr. GRIMES. At the suggestion of SenaMr. WILLIAMS. I think that the Senator notes; and that doctrine, too, in my judgment,
tors around me I ask leave to make the motion from Indiana misconstrues this bill, because it has done the nation much harm in disparagiug
to reconsider now and have it put. does not provide that the bonds or obligations its credit and in depreciating its obligations in
The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is moved inentioned in the act shall be payable only in foreign countries. Now, sir, to put an end to
that the vote by which the Senate agreed that com, but it provides also that they may be all questions arising out of this conflict of views
when it adjourns to-day it adjourn to meet on paid in what is equivalent to coin, and con and opinions in this country and to assure the Monday be reconsidered. templates the resumption of specie payments civilized world that we do not intend to repu
Mr. POMEROY. Several Senators have before the bonds become due, and expressly diate our obligations or to dishonor them in
left with the understanding that there was to provides that the bonds shall not be paid be any way, but that we, as a nation, expect to
be no session tomorrow, and they are not here Core they reach maturity. I am sure the hon treat our obligations as an honorable mau
I think it is hardly fair to those Senaorable Senator will not controvert the assertion would treat his, we propose to declare that we
tors wbo have left the Hall, and some of whom that when these bonds were issued and made will, whenever we pay these obligations, pay
bave left town, to reconsider it. payable ten, filteen, or twenty years from their them in what is recognized by the civilized
Mr. GRIMES. I never heard of such a sug dale, it was contemplated by the Government world as money or its equivalent.
gestion as that made beforo, that it was unfair and by every man who purchased one of the The primary object of this measure is to
to reconsider a vote because a Senator hap bundó that the Government would resume spe. make the declaration of our intention at this pened to have left town. I did not cause any cle payments before they became due. Was time and of our purpose hereafter; and we
one to leave town, nor did the body. 19 iliat the universal understanding of the publish to the world a pledge, and record it
Nr. POMEROY. When the Senate bas country at the time the bonds were created ? upon our statute-book, that no such doctrine passed a vote to adjourn over to a given day Now, this bill simply proposes that the nation as repudiation, no matter what disguise it may
that is notice to all the Senators that there will suall faithfully and honestly observe that un assume, shall ever be tolerated in the United be no session to-morrow, and some Senators derstanding. All that this bill proposes to do States of America, and let all men understand
find it very convenient to take advantage of that is lo declare to the world that the Government, that we mean to pay our debts in the spirit notice. Personally I care nothing about it; afier such an understanding, will not pay its and with the understanding with which they only I thought it was hardly fair to those who obligations in depreciated paper; that it will were contracted. This is what this bill means.
have made arrangements for their business not not pay in paper that is worth ten, twenty, This is its object and purpose. Now, sir, if to have a session to morrow to reconsider it furiy, or fity cents on the dollar; but that it the argument of the honorable Senator was now and have one, but if the Senate think it is wili tither pay these obligations in coin or it
It is not altogether sound-and I do not admit its cor
fair and all right I shall not object. will pay in paper after the nation bas resumed rectness, though I shall take no time here in
the course we usually pursue. specie payments, so that its paper shall be discussing the construction of the legal-tender
Mr. GRIMES. I thought that the Senator equivalent in value to coin. That is the whole act-I atlirm that a reasonable construction of
from Kansas considered himself a monitor of scope and effect of this bill; and it entirely com. i that act will satisfy any man that it was not
the Senate in regard to parliamentary law and parts with the theory which the honorable Sena contemplated then that the bonds should be the rules of this body; I was not aware that lorbasheretofore advanced in the Senate. Upon discharged in Treasury potes, for it provides
he set bimself up before to tell us what was all occasions be has declared that it was neces. expressly that the notes may be converted fair and unfair, honorable and dishonorable sary forth with for the Government to resume into bonds, and it would be nonsense to pro
in the transactions of this body. As for my. specie payments, and be has proposed a plan vide that the Treasury notes might be con
self I must be permitted to judge for myself by whicl resumption should take place within verted into bonds, thereby extending what
what it is fair or proper for me to do, and I tuo years and a half from this time; and if might be supposed to be an advantage to the
cannot allow any other gentleman to be my Congress bad adopted his policy, and it had holders of the notes, and tbat the Government | judge on such a question. proved a success, every one of these bonds might then turn round and discharge the bonds
Mr. POMEROY. I only expressed my would be payable in gold or silver or its equiv with the identical notes that it received. views in regard to what is fair and honorable alent, according to the express declarations of I will not discuss that question at this time; and just. If they meet the views of the Senthis bill. Now, I am sure the honorable Sen. but assuming the honorable Senator's construc: ator from Iowa I am very glad ; if they do not alor does not mean to say that this great nation tion of the law to be entirely correct, I affirm I am equally well pleased. ought to pay in paper an obligation that was as a matter of good policy at this time, after Mr. WILLIAMS. If this is to be discussed exeented with the understanding not only ou the rebellion is ended and afier we have re I shall object to its consideration, but I am the part of Congress, but on the part of the peo sumed our former course of prosperity, as a willing to let the vote be taken. [“ Vote!" p!", that it should be paid in coin-an under: maiter relating to our future history, we ought · Vote!"'] wianding that was veritied by the express decla now to declare that these obligations shall be The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ques. rations of every Secretary of the Treasury that paid in gold and silver coin or its equivalent. iion is on the motion to reconsider the vote by was concerned in issuing the bonds. I am sure Suppose the law to be as the Senator says, which the Senate agreed to adjourn to Monday. the Senator will not now claim that it would has not Congress the power to modify, change, Mr. RAMSEY. Is it uot in my province to be honorable or right to discharge such obli or repeal that law ? Suppose it to be true that object to the consideration of this motion? gations in the depreciated promises of the Gov. the law provided that these obligations might Several SENATORS. Too late.
be paid in Treasury notes, but at this time we The PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion Mr. NORTON. Will my friend allow me find that we have the capacity to pay them in has already been entertained by general conto interrupt him for a moment, as I do not gold and silver, and if we do so we shall ele. sent and it is too late to interpose an objecwish to make another speech ? vate our character in the estimation of the
tion now. vir. IIILLIAMS. Certainly.
world, so that when hereafter the circumstances The question bring put, there were on a Jír. IORTOX. My friend does not appre of the nation require us to mike a loan we division-ayes 1', noes 25.
Mr. MORTON. I ask for the
expedient or necessary: and also whether any and ascertain whether I understand the scope of the on this question, and will give as a reason that
what further provision loay be necessary for auditing proposition made by the gentleman from vas.
accounts, examining vouchers presented in relation I am informed, no doubt correctly, that the to feeding and caring for the Indians, and in what
sachusetts, [Ur. BUTLER.) If I understand cor. President desires to send noininations to the manner and to what extent they shall be subsisted. rectly the purport of this resolution its effect is Senate tomorrow. I am so informed from a and what lands shall be reserved and set apart for substantially to take from the jurisdiction of a
them, and how the same inzy be secured by law to source that I do not doubt. the use of the Indian tribes; ant finally to consider
standing committee of this House all matters The yeas and nays were ordered.
the expediency of determininz by law what shall be connected with our Indian affairs and in rust The PRESIDING OFFICER. the legal status of persons of Indian descent under
them to a joint committee of both Houses, for I tion is on the motion of the Senator from lowa
the laws of the United States, anii what course shall
believethateverything connected with this ques. that the Senate reconsider the vote by which civilization, Christianization, and ultimate citizen tion of our Indian affairs can under this joint it was ordered that when the Serrate adjourns || ship, and to report thereon by bill or otherwise. Said resolution be considered by this joint cominit.
coinmittee shall have power to employ a clerk and to-day it be to meet on Monday next. examine witnesses, if necessary.
tee. Now, Mr. Speaker, I object to this inethod The question being taken by yeas and nays,
of legislation. I believe that the theory of our resulted-yeas 23, nays 27; as follows:
The question was upon seconding the pre Government never contemplated that matters
vious question. YEAS-Messrs. Abbott, Brownlow, Cattell. Cole,
should be legislated upon here by means of joint Corbett, Cragin, Drake. Ferry, Fessenden. Grimes, Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I desire committees of the two Houses. Of course there Hamlin, Kellogg.Morrill, Morton, Patterson, Pratt, unanimous consent for a moment to explain are certain matters which must be intrusted to Sherman, Stewart, Thayer, Warner, Willey, Wild liams, and Wilson-23.
this concurrent resolution, because it arises joint coinmittees, but it seems to me that the NAY8-Messrs. Anthony, Bayard, Boreman, Car from a complication that came up in the last very basis of our legislation rests upon the idea penter, Cassorly, Fenton, Gilbert, Harris, Howard,
Congress. Howe. McCreery, McDonald, Norton, Pomeroy.Ram
that every subject of legislation is to be consid. sey. Robertson, Sawyer, Scott, Spencer, Sprague,
Mr. INGERSOLL. Is this the regular order? | ered by two separate committees in the two sep: Stockton, Sumner, Thurman, Tipton, Trumbull, The SPEAKER. It is the regular order, arate Houses of Congress. It is now proposed Vickers, and Yates-27.
the unfinished business pending when the House to raise a joint committee which shall have ABSENT-Messrs. Buckingham, Cameron, Chandler, Conkling, Davis, Edmunds, Fowler, Harlan, Nye, adjourned on Tuesday last.
exclusive and entire control over our Indian Osborn, Pool, Rice, Ross, Saulsbury, and Schurz-15. Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I ask affairs. I, for one, believe that the consid
So the motion to reconsider did not prevail. unavimous consent to be heard upon this res eration of the subject matter of Indian affairs The VICE PRESIDENT. Senate bill No. olution.
should devolve upon the separate committees 56 is before the body; and the question is on
The SPEAKER. If the gentleman from of the two Houses, and if those two committees the amendment of the Senator from Indiana,
Massachusetts will withdraw the call for the cannot agree, or ifthe two Houses cannot agree [Mr. Morton,] on which the yeas and nays previous question the resolution will then be with reference to our Indian policy, we should have been ordered. open to debate.
settle those differences as we do every other Mr. McCREERY. I have paired off with
Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. Very well. question of difference between the two Houses, the Senator from New York, [Mr. CONKLiNG.}
I desire that the House may understand ex by committees of conference upon the partic. He favors the bill and I am opposed to it.
actly the purport of this resolution. In the ular question that happens to be under consid. do not think it is right for me to vote on any
last House, as is known to the members who eration at the time. of these amendmenis.
were then present, the Indian appropriation Now, if this joint committee is to be raised, The question being taken by yeas and pays,
bill failed, calling for about six million four it is, as the gentleman from Massachusetts resulted-yeas 14, nays 32; as follows:
hundred thousand dollars. It failed for this says, to be composed mainly of members of YEAS-Messrs. Bayard, Brownlow, Casserly, Mor
reason: that there was a difference of opinion the Indian Committees in the two Houses. If ton, Norton, Pomeroy, Pratt, Robertsen, Ross, Spen
between the two Houses as to the present sys that be true then we propose to organize com: cer, Sprague, Stockton, Thurman, and Vickers-14. tem of treaties which bound the United States mittees within committees for the purpose of
SAYS-Messrs. Abbott, Anthony, Boreman, Car to pay to the Indians on the plains, from whom penter. Cattell, Curbett, Cragin, Drake. Fenton, Ferry,
jointly regulating this whole question of our Fussenden, Gilbert, Grines, Hainlin, Iloward, Howe, we receive ro lands, very large sums of money.
Indian affairs I believe the matter can be Morrill, Patterson, Rainsey, Sawyer. Schurz, Scott, These treaties, if we once enter upon them, better regulated by leaving it as at present to Sherman, Stewart, Sumber, Thayer, Tipton, Warner,
will continue for thirty years. Therefore the Willey, Williams, Wilson, and Yates-32.
the standing committees of the two flouses to ABSENT-Messrs. Buckingham, Cameron, Chand House, finding itself about to enter upon a new adjust these differences, if there are differences. Jer, Cole, Conkling, Davis, Edmunds, Fowler, lar Indian policy, which Indian policy could not For one I shall feel constrained to oppose this lon, Ilarris, Kellogg, McCreery, MeDonald, Nye,
resolution. Osborn, Pool, Rice, Saulsbury, and Trumbull-19.
then be discussed, refused to concur with the So the amendmeut was rejected.
Senate in making the appropriations necessary Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I yield
to carry out these Indian treaties. Upon a to the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Mr. SPRAGUE. Mr. President, before en committee of conference of the two Houses it SCOFIELD.] tering upon the general discussion of this meas
was agreed to report to both Houses that there Mr. SCOFIELD. Mr. Speaker, if I underure I think it proper to submit a inotion for was a disagreement and then to ask the next stand correctly the purport of this resolution, adjourninent, as the late hour of the day is such Congress, upon the organization of the House, I am in favor of it. Of course in this case, that I think the Senate will not be disposed to to appoint a joint select committee who should as in all others, the success of the measure remain and listen to what I may say; and I take all these matters into consideration and depends very much upon the manner in which deern the subject one of such great importance report to the House before any appropriations it shall be carried out. If this comunittee is and it bas so occupied my thoughts and time are made the system upon wbich they are to to be constituted of gentlemen who are in that I shall probably detain the Senate longer be made.
favor of the Senate policy of managing this than their patience would adınit of to-day. I There is no more important question which Indian question, then I am opposed to the move therefore that the Senate do now adjourn. can be presented to the House. I wish to say resolution and to the committee that may be
The motion was agreed to-ayes twenty five, further that while this resolution is very broad appointed under it. But if this committee is noes not counted; and the Senate adjourned. || it must be so in order to give the committee to represent what I believe to be the fair sen
jurisdiction of various questions relating to timent of the House--and of course the effort HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
the Indian tribes. I think there are one hun. will be under the parliamentary rule to accomFriday, March 12, 1869.
dred and seventy-two different acts of Congress plish that-then I am in favor of it.
which must be consulted before one can ascer Mr. ALLISON. I would like the gentle. The House met at twelve o'clock m. Prayer | tain all the legislative provisions which bear man from Pennsylvania (Mr. SCOFIELD) to tell by the Chaplain-elect, Rev. J. G. Butler, upon Indian affairs. Then there are a large me w! it is any more necessary to have a joint
The Journal of Tuesday last was read and number of treaties which have been made, committee on this subject than to have a joint åpproved.
modified, changed, and altered, running back committee on appropriations or a joint commitINDIAN AFFAIRS.
to 1789; and very many of their provisions tee on finance or a joint committee upon any The SPEAKER. The first business in order are now obsolete.
general subject of legislation that may come is a resolution pending when the House ad
Under these circumstances it was thought before us? journed on Tuesday last, upon which the gen.
wise that the whole matter should be bronght Mr. SCOFIELD. I will answer the gentle. ileman from Massachusetts [Mr. DAWES) has
under the supervision of a joint select com man ; or at least I will give him my answer, called the previous question. The Clerk will
mittee, which will probably be substantially the whether it is a good one or not. report the resolution to the House.
Committee on Indian Affairs of each House. As I was going on to say, the Senate has The Clerk read as follows:
And I trust there will be no objection to this struck out a policy in relation to the Indians Resolved by the House of Representatives, (the Sen
resolution, because it does not in itself pro which I believe has not met the concurrence of ate concurring.) That a joint special cominittee on
vide any legislation, but only for the appoint. the House, and never will. The diverse poliIndian affairs, consisting of nine members, threo ment of a committee to consider these sub. cies of the two Houses can only antagonize from the Senate and six froin the House, be appointed, to whom shall be referred all matters relat
jects and to present them to the two Houses. each other upon a joint committee ; and hereing to treaties with Indian tribes, payment of annu
When the propositions which may be presented fore I am in favor of such a committee. Under ities and examination of claims referred to Congress by this committee shall come before the House the present system whenever some persons from the Interior Department relating to Indians, there will then be “ ample room and verge with power to consider all questions arising under
want to get a large portion of the public do. said treatios, and whether the sime may be abrogated,
enough," as there ought to be and inust be, main, and, having got a bill through the Sen. annulled, or modified: and whether any further for discussion of the merits of those propo. ate, find themselves blocked in the House, the treaties shall be made with Indian tribes, and if any under what restriction; and whether any and what
sitions. I yield to the gentleman from Iowa, House being always more sensitive to popular revision of the several acts providing for the organ[Mr. Allison.]
sentiment, their next resort is to the wild In. ization of the department of Indian affairs may be Mr. ALLISON. Mr. Speaker. I desire to dians; they get somebody appointed by the
Commissioner of Indian Affairs to make a understood, Mr. Speaker, in reference to this to this House propositions of law, which must treaty; and the substance of the treaty is that subject. I agree entirely with the gentleman be sent to the Senate without any advice with it is a sale or disposition of this land in a man from Pennsylvania in the object which he has that body. But it has always heretofore failed, ner designed to prevent the House from having in view. I am opposed to this treaty-making and probably will fail. any control of the matter. So it is with large business on the part of the Senate of the Uni Mr. JULIAN. If the gentleman will allow claims like the Choctaw claim-óthe two mil. ted States; but, sir, we have a check upon me, I wish to suggest the radical difficulty in lion claim," as it is called. When such a claim, that body by refusing to make appropriations, this case, and whether his proposition will based upon nothing at all, fails in this House as we did at the close of the last Congress, for meet it. We need exactly such a system of though it succeeds in getting through the Sen the purpose of carrying out treaties made with | laws regulating our Indian treaties as he de. ate, a treaty is finaily made and is ratified by the Indians to which this House objected. || sires, but when the House acts on these questhe Senate, agreeing to leave the question And for one I shall always stand here to vote tions the Senate pays not the slightest atten. to the Senate ; thus saying in effect tbat the against carrying out such treaties by refusing tion to what we do. This House has repeatedly House shall exercise no part of the legislative to make the necessary appropriations. But I passed bills and joint resolutions totally deny. power upon this claim.
do not think that we can secure what the gen. ing the power of the Senate and Executive, by This system of Indian treaties has recently tleman proposes by the appointment of this treaty with the Indians, to dispose of the pubgone the length of depriving the House of all || joint committee. If I thought it could be se. lic domuin except by direct conveyance to the its legitimate powerin ihe management of these cured in that way I should not oppose it. I United States, which would subject the lands questions. The Commissioner of Indian Af do not think that we should surrender our to the preëmption and homestead laws of the fairs appoints some man to make what is called privileges as members of the House of Rep United States. This blouse has, without any an Indian treaty; the Senate go into secret resentatives in that way.
demand for a division, enacted and reënacted session on the subject and no one pays any Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I desire that sort of legislation bere. The bills have attention to it; and then we are told that we the attention of the House, Mr. Speaker, to gone to the Senate, and there they have slept are pledged and bound by what are called the the objections of the gentleman from Iowa. I soundly in the drawers of the Committees on obligations of a solemn treaty. It is all a mere trust I shall not be accused by those who Public Lands and on Indian Affairs of that farce. If I understand the purpose of the gen. served with me in the last House with any || body. The Senate have treated with seeming tleman from Massachusetts it is to see whether desire to put the privileges of the House at contempt every proposition to abrogate their we cannot originate some policy which will the feet of the Senate, for if there is any one iniquitous policy respecting our Indian trea. give us some kind of voice in the settlement of subject upon which I have had more animad. ties. Now, if the gentleman from Massachuthese great questions. On that ground I am version than another it is because I have stood setts can satisfy this Housein favor of ibe proposition, because a joint up in every way for the privileges of the House Mr. INGERSOLL. Mr. Speaker, it seems coromittee can effiset that object much better against the encroachments of the Senate. to me rather unparliamentary to charge the than a standing committee of either House. Now, let me show why it is necessary to have Senate with a corrupt system of legislation. Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts.
a joint committee. So long as we treat the The SPEAKER. The Chair rules that it is yield to the gentleman from Illinois.
Indian tribes as independent nations, then so not allowable. Mr. JUDD. If I understand the resolution long will the Executive with the aid of the Mr. JULIAN. I withdraw what I said if it of the gentleman from Massachusetts it seems Senate make treaties with them, and we may is unparliamentary, and will only state that to me eminently wise and proper that it should be bound by what is called the supreme law
the action of the Senate has seemed to me to be adopted. I have seen during the time I of the land to pay them any sums of money be very indefensible and iniquitous; and when have sat upon this floor what was an apparent that the Senate may choose to fix; and the we have attempted by law to say so, and have conflict between the two branches of Congress House has no jurisdiction, has no privilege, | demanded a decent policy, conforming to the in relation to our Indian policy. I have myself has nothing to do upon one theory of the Con- | authority of Congress, the Senate has utterly individually found it exceedingly difficult to stitution and law except to vote appropriations refused to listen to the proposition. Now, as arrive at any accurate conclusion in regard to to carry out these treaties. Now, then, before I was about to remark, if the gentleman from the facts connected with the Indian Bureau we can get any jurisdiction of this question we Massachusetts can satisfy this House that'a and the treaties made with the various Indian must pass a law which shall put an end to this joint committee, through any sort of mission: tribes. Now, I think the importance of having treaty-making system. That law can only be ary influence in the Senate, will be the means a settled policy in this regard overrides almost got by the consent of the Senate, by an adjust of bringing that body into harmony with the every other consideration ; and, sir, I believe ment of the terms upon which that law can be House, I shall be very glad to vote for such a that there is no better mode in which this made.
committee. Perhaps it would, and I do not House can get proper information for judicious Now I find this sentiment in regard to Indian say that I will not vote for the resolution. But *action than by having a committee of this body treaties: it is said that where we have received the whole virtue of it will depend upon the actiog in conjunction with a committee of the a consideration, where the Indian tribes have composition of the committee--whether it will Sevate, through whose joint agency matters given us their lands and we have agreed to give be strong enough to withstand the power of the relating to our Indian alfairs shall be consid. them annuities, these treaties must be pre "Indian ring,” whose shaping hand has been ered and submitted to the two Houses for its served. I agree to that. What we have prom seen and felt in the politics of our country for judgment and final action.
ised to pay must be paid. But where treaties years. The gentleman from Jowa [Mr. Allison] have been made simply that the Indian tribes Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. It is to believes that it would be better to have stand should keep the peace I would have those trea meet the very trouble which the gentleman has ing committees in each House to consider these ties abrogated entirely. We should treat the suggested that this resolution is introduced Indian matters. If any proposition should be Indians as the wards of the nation. This na the trouble of separate legislation which my reported from the joint committee it would still tion should govern them by law as we govern friend from Iowa [Mr. ALLISON] has brought be in the judgment of the House to refer it for all other tenants on our soil, whether citizens to the attention of the House. If we canuot further consideration to the standing Commit.
Our laws should be just and equitable | do it in this way we cannot do it in any way. tee on Indian Affairs. I look upon a joint com | according to the faith of a great nation, and We are here in this position : we shali prob. mittee as a means of barmonizing the action not according to a treaty made in a wigwam ably adjourn in the course of a month with no of the two Houses on these important ques. over what is called a council-fire. Therefore appropriations made for Indian affairs, either tions and obtaining that information for the use we propose to try a joint committee of the two to carry out treaties or to feed the Indians or of the House which we cannot get in the man Houses, so that upon conference with the Sen to prevent an Indian war after the 1st day of ner in which this business is now conducted. ate we can see how far they are willing to waive | July next. Something must be done and done
I agree entirely with the declaration of the their treaty-making power or to pass laws to now; and I am convinced that we cannot set. gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Scofield,] restrain the treaty-making power. I agree that tle this matter in the way of ordinary legislathat if the power heretofore exercised under the late treaties made on the plains ought not
tion. I would that the labor might pass away the claim of the treaty-making power shall con. to be carried out. We must change this whole from me. I have no desire myself to be upon tinue then the House of Representatives will system. It has been a subject of legislation this committee. It is a labor, a vast work, it dwindle into insignificance in reference to the since 1834. In that year the Indian depart work that will require all the industry, all the disposition of the public domain, and our pub ment was established, and the proposition was talent, and all the discretion that any commitlic lands may be sold and disposed of by treaty made to give presents to the Indians, to give tee of this House can bring to bear upon it. without the people's Representatives being in them domestic animals, &c. What do gentle. But the committee will have this great reward, any way consulted as to the manner of its dis men suppose was the amount of the appropria that it will present the most necessary piece of position or the price to be paid for it. I will tion in 1834 for that purpose? It was $5,000. | legislation that can be done, the most econom: support the resolution as ihe best mode of What did the present Indian appropriation bill ical piece of legislation that can be done, and arriving at a solution of the questions in dis call for for that purpose? Four million dol. that in future will save millions upon millions. pute between the two Houses of Congress, and
Under these circumstances it is neces I yield for a moment to the gentleman from also as the best mode of determining the policy sary that some new legislation should take Illinois, [Mr. FarnsworTH.] which will hereafter prevent one branch of place. We are now acting under the act of Mr. FARNSWORTH. Mr. Speaker, it Congress from entirely controlling the disposi 1834.
seems to me that at least the proposition of tion of the public lands without the consent of Now, I do not mean to take away by this the gentleman from Massachusetts can do no the Representatives of the people.
resolution from the Indian Committee of this harm, and by this process we may get the SenMr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I will House their proper sphere of legislation and ate and the House to act together opon this trounext yield to the gentleman from Iowa. examination. They must examine under the blesome question in regard to the Indians.
Mr. ALLISON. I do not wish to be mis laws the treaties as they now exist and report While the Senate is pulling in one direction
and the House in the other we certainly shall sent to introduce for reference a bill which I ceived in exchange for the bonds hereby ac not arrive at any very profitable conclusion. send to the Clerk's desk.
thorized to be issued; and lie is hereby proIt may be that by a joint committee we will get The bill was read, being supplementary to an hibited from using or disposing of in any other joint action in reference to the whole subject. act entitled “ An act to provide a national cur. manner the lawful money so received in exIf we go on making treaties and recognizing rency secured by pledge of United States bonds, change for such bonds; and he is hereby furthe right of the President and Senate to make and to provide for the circulation and redemp. ther directed to cancel and destroy, in accordtreaties with every little wandering tribe of tion thereof, approved June 3, 1864, and for
ance with the manner now provided by law, naked savages in the country, treating with other purposes.
each and every bond so purchased as aforesaid thein as independent nations, treating away Mr. RANDALL. I ask that the bill be read under the provisions of this act. portions of the public domain and buying land at length.
The seventh section provides that all acts from little wandering tribes of savages, and The bill was read. The first section pro
or parts of acts inconsistent with this act are agreeing to give them annuities and clothing vides that section twenty-two of the act to
hereby repealed. and agricultural implements and ministers and which this is supplementary be so amended
Mr. RANDALL. As indicating my opposchoolmasters and everything else perpetually, that said section shall read as follows:
sition to this bill I object to its introduction at why it is becoming a great whirlpool in which
In order to furnish suitablo notes for circulation we shall sink, as we are now doing, millions the Comptroller of the Currency is hereby authorized
ADJOURNMENT TILL NONDIY. and millions of the people's money annually. and required, under the lirection of the Secretary of A stop has got to be put to this thing sooner the Treasury, to cause plates and dies to be engraved
Mr. SCOFIELD. I rise to a privileged in the best manner, to guard against counterfeiting motion. I move that when the House adjourns or later. We have got to reverse the policy
and fraudulent alterations, and to have printed thereof the Government in regard to the Indians.
to-day it be to meet on Monday next. from, and numbered, such quantity of circulating If we do not do it in some such way as this the notes, in blank, of the denominations of one dollar,
The motion was agreed to. two dollars, three dollars, five dollars, ten dollars, people, in my opinion, will finally rise and twenty dollars, fifty dollars, one hundred dollars, five
PRESBYTERIAN CHURCII, BARDSTOWN. iuri the Indians over to the tender mercies of hundred dollars, and one thousand dollars, as inay be Mr. KNOTT, by unanimous consent, introthe military, or the settlers with muskets in required to supply, under this act, the associations their hands will settle with them as they see fit. entitled to receive the same; which notes shall ex
duced a bill (H. R. No. 4) to refund the inpress upon their face that they are secured by United ternal revenue tax assessed upon a bequest I hope the gentleman from Massachusetts will States bonds deposited with the Treasurer of the
made by Joseph Brown, deceased, for the use demand the previous question on his resolution
United States, by the written or engraved signatures and that the joint committee will be appointed.
of the Treasurer and Register, and by the imprint of of the Presbyterian church, at Bardstown,
the seal of the Treasury; and shall also express upon Kentucky; which was read a first and second Let us try it.
their face the promise of the association receiving time, and ordered to be referred to the ComMr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I move the same to pay on demand, attosied by the signatures the previous question. of the president or vice president and cashier: And
inittee of Ways and Means, when appointed. the said notes shall bear such devices and such other
ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE. The previous question was seconded and the statements, and shall bein such form as the Secretary main question ordered, being upon agreeing
of the Treasury shall by regulation direct: Provided, Mr. BINGHAM. I offer the following privi. to the resolution.
That not more than one sixth part of the notes fur
nished to an association shall be of a less denomina- || leged resolution, and upon it call the previous Mr. ELDRIDGE called for the
and tion than five dollars, and that after specie payments question : mays. shall be resumed no association shall be furnished
Resolved. (the Senate concurring.) That the SpeakThe yeas and nays were ordered. with notes of a lcss denomination than five dollars.
er of the House and the President of the Senate The question was taken ; and it was decided The second section provides that the Secre
a ljourn their respectivo Houses of the Forty-First
Congress of the United States on the fourth Monin the atfirmative-yeas 93, nays 18, not voting tary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and
day of March, instant, at twelve o'clock m., without 53; as follows:
directed to prepare and issue, as hereinafter day. YEAS–Messrs. Ambler, Ames, Armstrong, Arnell,
directed, bonds of the United States, either Mr. SCOFIELD. I would like the gentleman Asper, Axtell, Bailey, Banks, Beaman, Beatty, Ben coupon or registered, to the amount of $600,
to fix some other day of the week than Monday jamin. Bennett, Boles, Bowen, Boyd, Builinton,
000,000, payable at the pleasure of the United for the final adjournment. Vurdett, Benjamin F. Butler, Roderick R. Butler, Cessna, Churchill, Amasa Cobb, Cook, Conger, States after twenty years from date in lawful
The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Cowles, Crebs, Cullom, Davis, Deweese. Dockery, money, and bearing interest at the rate of
Ohio [Mr. BINGHAM] withdraw the demand Duval, Dyer, Farnsworth, Ferriss, Ferry, Finkeinburg, Fisher, Fitch, Gilfillan. Ilay, Ileaton,
three per cent. per annum, payable semi-annu. for the previous question ? Floar, Hopkins, Hotchkiss, Ingersoll, Alexander H. ally in coin. The bonds hereby authorized
Mr. BINGHAM. I do, for the purpose of Jones, Judd, Julian, Kelsoy, Koapp, Lash, Law shall be of such denomination, not less than rence, Loughridge, Lynch, McCormick, McCrary, McCrow, Mercur, Eliakiin II. Moore, William Moore,
fitty dollars, as may be deemed expedient by hearing the suggestion of my friend from PennNegley, O'Neill, Packard, Paine, Poland, Pomeroy, the Secretary of the Treasury.
sylvania, (Mr. Scofield.] Prosser, Roots, Sanford, Sargent, Sawyer, Scofield, The third section provides that the Secretary
Mr. ARNELL. I make the point of order William J. Smith, William Smyth, Stevenson,
that this resolution is not a privileged ques. of the Treasury is hereby empowered to disStoughton, Strickland, Tafle, Tanner. Tillınan,
tion. Twichell, Tyner, Unson, Ward, Cadwalador C. pose of the bonds hereby authorized to be
The SPEAKER. The Chair overrules the Washburn, Welkor. Wheeler, Whittemore, Wilkin issued for lawful money of the United States sun, Willard, Williams, Eugene M, Wilson, and Winans-93. at not less than their par value.
point of order.
Mr. BINGHAM. I yield to the gentleman NAYS- Messrs. Allison, Archer, Beck, Biges, The fourth section provides that each and
from Pennsylvania for a question. Binghain, Bird, Blair, Burr, Dickinson, Eldridge, every banking association organized and doing Garfield, Getz, Golladay, Waldeman, Hambleton, business under and by virtue of the act to
Mr. SCOFIELD. I want to ask the gentle. llamill, Hoag, Holman, Jonckes, Johnson, Thomas L. Jones, Kerr, Ketom. Kott, Marshall, Mayham, which this is supplementary, is hereby required
man to name for the final adjournment any McNeely, Moffet, lunch, Viviack, Orth, Randall, to deposit with the Treasurer of the United other day than Monday. Last year we fixed Reading. Reeves, Sbanks, John A. Smith, Stiles, States, within six months after the passage of
Monday as the day of adjournment, and the Stokes, Stone, Strader, Swanı, Sweeney, Trimble, Van Trump. Wells, John T. Wilson, Winchester, this act, an amount of the bonds hereby au
consequence was that the day before the ad. and Witcher--48. thorized to be issued equal to the amount of
jourument we desecrated the Sabbath, sitting NOT VOTING-Messrs. Adams, Boutwell, Brooks, Cake, Calkin, Clarke, Cleveland, Clinton L. Cob!), bonds then on deposit by said associations,
here all that day and all that might in order to
finish business ; and in that way we passed Coburn, Dawes, Dickey. Dixon, Donlev. Fox: | respectively, with ihe said Treasurer as secu: Greene, Griswold, Haight, Hale, Hamilton, Ilawkins, rity for the circulation and Government de
bills that ought never to have been passed. Hawloy, Hill, Ilooper. Kelley, Lalliw, Logila, Maynard, McCarthy, Jesse H. Moore, Morgan, Daniel posits of such associations; and the said Treas.
Mr. BINGHAN. I modify my resolution J. Morrell, Samuel P. Morrill, Morriusey, Packer, urer is hereby authorized to receive from such
by striking out" fourth Monday and insertPalmer, Peters, Phelps, Potter, Rice, Rogers, associations the bonds hereby authorized to
ing “last Friday ;'' so as to fix the last Friday Schenck, Schumaker, Sheldon Slocuin, Joseph S. Smith, Worthington C. Smith, Townsend. Van be issued in lieu of any other bonds held by
of March as the day of adjournment. I yield Auken, Van Horn, Voorhees, William B. Washburn, him ; and in case any such association shall
for a moment to my colleague, (Mr. SCHENCK.] Wood, and Woodward-53.
Mr. SCHENCK. I desire to suggest to my fail to comply with the requirements of this So the resolution was agreed to. section within six months from the passage of
colleague [Mr. Binguam] and the House Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts, moved to this act the Comptroller of the Currency shall
whether it will not be better to keep this matreconsider the vote by which the resolution forth with appoint a receiver to wind up the
ter of adjournment under our control for a was adopted ; and also moved that the motion business of such association in the manner
few days. I think we may with propriety to reconsider be laid on the table.
provided by the act to which this is supple- | adjourn at an early day ; but I do not believe The latter motion was agreed to. mentary.
we can gain anything by fixing the day now.
Mr. BINGULLI. I renew the call for the
previous question. Mr. FARNSWORTII, by unanimous con those to be issued under this act shall be re
Mr. INGERSOLL. I move that the resosent, subinitted the following resolution ; which ceived by the Treasurer of the United States as
lution be laid on the table. was read, considered, and agreed to: security for the circulation of any such asso
The motion was not agreed to. Resolved, That the Committee on Rules be directed ciation, now or hereafter to be organized, or The previous question was seconded and the to inquire into the propriety of so amending the for security for United States deposits.
main question ordered; whiclı was upon agreetwenty-ninth rule that the Speaker shall not be required to ask a member "Were you within the bar The sixth section provides that the Secretary ing to the resolution. before the last name on the roll was called ?” who, of the Treasury be, and he hereby is, directed
On agreeing to the resolution there werehaving been passed on the call of the roll, shall de
to buy in open market at the lowest market ayes 118, noes 14.
So the resolution was adopted.
of the United States issued under any former Mr. BINGHAM moved to reconsider the Mr. INGERSOLL. I ask unanimous coa act of Congress, with the lawsul money re. vote by which the resolution was adopted; and