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line, who shall be appointed by the President, con Mr. FESSENDEN. Then, if I understand the people of his time, he should bave discov. firmed by the Senate, and hold their offices for the term of four years.

the Senator from Iowa, all he means to say is ered the New World. He asked them to stand The amendment was agreed to.

that a majority of the committee think we had an egg upon its end. They made every effort better keep the number at twenty-five.

to accomplish the purpose, and failing looked The next amendment was in section six, line

Mr. GRIMES. All of them.

to him. Cracking the egg on the end it stood. two, to strike out the words “a clerk" and to

Mr. FESSENDEN. If that is the opinion It was suficient; they understood him. Now, insert an officer ;'' in line three, to strike out

of the committee I do not feel disposed to I send to the Chair my proposition of finance the word “ Department and to insert “not quarrel with it.

and ask thist it be read. I do not offer it as an below the grade of commander ;'' and in line

The amendment was agreed to.

amendment, but simply as a paper on which, four, to strike out the words "the clerk" and

The next amendment was in section eight,

and on which alone, in my opinion, can this to insert "secretary ;'' so that the section will

line four, to strike out the word "to"' and to country solve her financial problem. read: insert the word " below," and line twelve, after

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary Sec. 6. And be it further enacted. That it shall be the duty of the Secretary vf the Navy to detail an the word "grade,'' to insert “of lieutenants ;''

will read the paper. otficer of the Navy, not below the grade of com so that the section will read:

The Chief Clerk read as follows: mander, to act as secretary of said board of survey. SEC. 8. And be it further enacted, That no promo

That the President nominate, and by and with the The amendment was agreed to.

tion to the grade of lieutenant com inander on the advice and consent of the Senate appoint, a com

active list shall be inade until the number in said missioner, a deputy counoissioner, and twenty-four The next amendment was to strike out the grado is reduced below eighty, which shall thereafter judges of finance, to bo selocted from among inen of seventh section, in the following words:

be the number allowed by law; and when the num wide experience and marked skill in business, ex

ber of lieutenant commanders shall have been so clusive of those engaged in banking, to examine into Sec. 7. And be it further enacted, That from and reduced, section five of the act to define the number the English system of finance, touching the reception after the passage of this act no proipotion to the and regulate the appointment of officers in the Navy, and disbursement of the national income, and to regrade of commodore on the active list shall be made

and for other purposes, approved July 25, 1866, shali port at the next session of Congress a plan for the until the number in said grade is reduced below fil

stand repealed. And as the number of lieutenant recetion of the national revenues into the Treasury teen, which shall thereafter be the number allowed

commanders is reduced the number of lieutepants and the disbursement thereof, and to discounect from by law.

shall be increased, until the numberin said grade of tho Treasury its jurisdiction over national banke. Mr. FESSENDEN. I should like to have

lieutenants on the active list shall be two hundred This power vested in said commissioners shall be so

and eighty, wbich shall thereafter be the number of directed as to obviate the scarcity of money ind high the reason stated for striking out that section, lieutenants allowed by law.

rates of interest caused by the withdrawal of Treasury Mr. GRIMES. In the bill that I had the

The amendment was agreed to.

revenues from the market by keeping daily in the honor to submit to the Senate, and which was

inarket thesame sumn its is received into the Trossary.

and to place the same on the market at such points referred to the Committee on Naval Affairs,

PUBLIC CREDIT.

as wili check the increasing rates of interest and inthis section was included, which reduces the The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary crcase capital whilo decreasing the cost thereof. number of commodores from twenty-five to will suspend the reading of the amendments. Mr. SPRAGUE. It will be seen by that fifteen. Upon consultation with the commit The morning hour having expired, the Senate, paper that my opinion is not favorable to an lee, and by reference to persons quite familiar as in Committee of the Whole, resumes the con. increased issue of legal tenders or of national with the subject, it was thought that the num sideration of the bill (S. No. 56) to strengthen bank currency. It will also be seen that I am ber of twenty-five, which is the number now the public credit, and relating to contracts for not in favor of a repudiation of the national allowed by law, was not too many. This does the payment of coin ; upon which the Senator debt. But, sir, I do not sympathize with that not increase the number of commodores. The froin Rhode Island (Mr. SPRAGUE] is entitled class of men who are holding up to the gaze bill as I introduced it reduced them. Striking to the floor.

of the people of the United States the sacredout the section simply retains them at the num Mr. SPRAGUE. Mr. President, it is not ness of that debt, I was opposed in your ber now established by law.

my intention this morning to make a speech caucus, Mr. President, to an amendment of Mr. CONKLING. What is that number?

or to enter into the discussion of this question | the Constitution giving undue protection to Mr. GRIMES. Twenty-five. I propose to by any show of statistics or any details that that debt, and I am also now opposed to any reduce it in the bill as I introduced it to fit

will weary the Senate or be tedious to my lis reiterated protection by the law contemplated teen; but the committee and others who were

teners. I have thought of this subject of by the bill before the Senate. I do not think consulted on the subject tho it better to

finance with a great deal of anxiety. I have hat there is much sacreduess in the issue of retain it at the present number.

brought to bear upon its consideration the posi bonds for the Pacific railroad, which become a Mr. FESSENDEN. I should like to know tion in which the industries of the country are part of your national debt; and I see nothing whom the committee consulted. I suppose the || placed. I have compared those industries ihat is sacred in the thousand and one unne. feeling of officers in the Navy quite naturally with the industries of other countries, and I cessary appropriations that are constantly made is to keep as many officers of these high grades have also compared the plan of finance which at each session of Congress. as possible, because it affords a better chance

governs and controls our affairs with the plan The great bulk of the debt of the nation bas for promotion to those below them. I should of finance wbich governs and controls the been created in pursuance of a necessary and like to have some other reason for it than the affairs of other countries. And, sir, I am | important object, the maintaining of the ter. opinion of those who were consulted. I want weighed down with anxiety when I contem ritorial integrity of the United States. In to know who those consulted were, if it is plate the ruin that is in store for us unless we Great Britain to-day the profits on almost any thought that the Navy should be kept in its pause in the forced policy that we have been one of her great industries-her commerce, her number of officers at so high a figure as at pursuing since the close of the war.

manufactures of iron or of coal or of cotton present. The reduction that has been going When the Duke of Wellington conceived the or of wool-are sufficient to pay the interest on on in the Army has been very great. Why can idea that the English troops could fight in two hier national debt. But is it the part of a peowe not reduce the number of officers in the ranks, and thereby, in his judgment, overcome ple to drift into the condition of Mexican Navy, not by striking any out who are now in, the masses of French infantry, then domineer. || society, where the national debt is an oppressive but by not filling vacancies? What do we want ing and triumphing over all Europe, he became burden to the community? If those whose with more than fifteen commodores on the act. tired and weary in the contemplation of that business it is to make light the public burdens ive list, or what shall we want in the future subject, and obtaining leave of absence from the || neglect, either from ignorance or from any with more than that number? I should like Indian government reported himself at home other cause, to pursue a policy that will relieve to hear some better reason given for it than and obiained employment. And with that instead of a policy that will destroy, if the peothat the opinion of somebody-we do not know simple idea in his head he stationed hiinself in | ple of this country are to-day, in consequence who-was obtained that it is better to keep it the Peninsula, and both with the troops of of the public debt bearing heavily upon them, at twenty-five. Has the honorable Senator whom he had charge and with the fortifications | drifting, as I verily believe, into the condition from Iowa changed his opinion on the subject? that he found it necessary to build he pursued | of Spanish and Mexican society, would any

Mr. GRIMES. The gentlemen who were that idea, and triumphed in his turn over one demand that state of slavery rather than consulted on this subject were the seven gen- | Napoleon, who had subjugated Europe and tri. a cancellation of the debt? tlemen eminently skilled in naval affairs who

umphed over the best generals that the allies Sir, you have provided for wholesale repucompose the Committee on Naval Affairs of

could bring to bear. I mention tbat to show diation of private debts by your enactments at the Senate. Let me tell the Senator he need that it is little things that govern the greatest recent sessions of Congress. You can cancel not be alarmed about our not having reduced of human affairs.

debts between individuals, between the citi. the Navy correspondingly with the reduction A few weeks since, in order to understand zens of the country; and you look with holy of the Army. When this bill shall pass there something of the condition of the South, I vis. horror upon a suggestion that if you pursue will not be quite as many officers in the Navy | ited Georgia, and naturally was invited to in a policy of destruction this incubus will be as there were at the beginning of the war in spect a cotton mill. In the city of Augusta, sloughed off. You look upon it with holy 1861.

Georgia, is a cotton-mill that to-day will sur horror that any one should touch that sacred Mr. CONKLING. Including the admirals pass, and does surpass in the success of its circle ! and rear admirals?

operations, the best one in New England; and This Senate must know facts connected with Mr. GRIMES. Yes, sir ; including them the secret of that success lies in the turn of the industries of this country. I told you two all. The bill simply gives the rear admirals one roll where the cotton is delivered on the years ago that you had lost, if you were not additional rank with very little more pay than spindle, it turning at one hundred and fifteen exceedingly careful in reference to your future the commodores receive. It is simply a re turns to the minute, where others in New Eng. legislation, your monopoly of cotton, and noorganization with additional rank to corre land and even by the side of it turn ninety or body believed it; nobody will believe it now; spond with the Army rank where they are one hundred.

but let me tell you that you have lost forever brought in contact, as they were during the war, Columbus, after he had discovered America, your sea-island cotton. Go to the South and in mutual coöperation.

was asked at a festive board how, among all make inquiries there. It is a thing that was,

and the whole South is to-day trying to find a some help-even they, eating their own words, tion for them to know it, I can state that at the substitute in the rami or China grass that will | admit that they are losing from day to day the same time and from the same cause the Governgrow more prolifically whereby they can re business in which they were heretofore en ment bonds of Turkey assumed a similar relaplace that which has been lost. I tell you, gaged, and they are giving it up by force to tion as to price; they advanced about six or seven sir, that in five years under the system of such interlopers as Fisk and Gould, and they per cent. The cause of it was simply that the finance pursued by the projectors of this bill, cannot help themselves. They are tied hand | English capitalists had taken two or three per that which of itself was a monopoly and has and foot as surely and as certainly as they have cent. long enough and they were willing to take now ceased to be a monopoly will cease to be || tied this Senate and this country; for who ever greater risks and secure securities that would & profitable business to those who are engaged || heard of a policy that would drive a public debt pay a higher rate of interest. in it. It may be that some of my friends from ora private debt into the hands of the people of Some people, too, will say that the rise in the South are watching the encroachments made | other countries? Why, sir, that absurd doctrine the value of your currency was occasioned by upon that interest in Egypt, in India, and in was given up two hundred and fifty years ago. some remark that has been made by somebody Brazil.

In Elizabeth's time the whole people of Great or some resolution before the bar of this SenThe last statement from England of the re Britain were agreed that the public debt was a ate or otherwise ; that that was the cause of ceipts of that fiber shows a marvelous increase ; | capital and the interest from time to time paid an increased value to your paper. What was one half of the cotton used by Great Britain is on that debt should go to increase the capital the cause? This rise in the value of your to-day received from Egypt, India, and Brazil; within the territory of Great Britain, and by that securities drove them to Europe, and drove to and the cotton that is produced by India, by | increase her industries became more prosper. | Europe the capital on which your business was Egypt, and by Brazil is equal for all necessary ous. But, sir, on the other hand, we have been done, and exchange has been drawn against purposes to that produced in this country. trying to force beyond our borders the very thing them coming in competition with gold, and the

But I bave another point to urge upon the on which and by which alone we were able to do result was inevitable. Sir, that was the cause, western men of this Senate, and to say to them our business. Bonds, currency, interest, are and no other. The idea of resolutions like that the boasted strength and prosperity of capital, and you cannot separate one from the this before the Senate or anywhere else, or that section is but a shadow; and I point to other.

articles in newspapers, or speeches made by the reports of the production of one article But, sir, look and see what you have done anybody having an effect upon the price of which is but a representative of all the others, with the banking capital of this country. It gold or the value of your bonds is the most wheat. It is the deliberate judgment of the || is an interesting subject to contemplate. There complete absurdity that ever afflicted the brains men who have statistics in their hands and are are $420,000,000 of national banking capital,

of sensible men. acquainted with this subject that in the old and what have you done with it? I will show Congress and the Supreme Court seem to be States, on the old lands, exclusive of Califor you. Three hundred and forty million dollars acting in accord on this subject. My friend nia, five bushels per acre is the amount of the are locked up in your Treasury as security for from Indiana (Mr. MORTON) in his remarks crop on the average produced in the western circulation ; $37,000,000 are locked up to the other day told the Senate that the second States, and that including California and all secure deposits ; there are $36,000,000 of section of the bill was in qualification of the the new lands that are taken up eleven and a bonds otherwise ; there are $20,000,000 of dangerous influences connected with the recent half bushels to the acre is the outside figure. | other stocks and bonds. Then a large amount decision of the Supreme Court. As my mind What is the production of England, Ireland, ll of the capital, in the shape of legal tenders, is not taken up with any of the ameliorating and Scotland? Twenty-eight bushels per acre. fractional currency, compound-interest notes, I projects or any of the medicines that are Now, let me ask what prospect there is of the l and three per cent. certificates, is compelled used to cure this disease, I had not paid any farming interest of this country competing in by law to be hoarded in the banks.

attention whatever to the merits of that section the markets of Europe? Sir, I do not care The whole capital, with from sixty to eighty | in detail; but it was the business of somebody how large a product may be made by the millions besides, is forced into a dark corner. to take some notice of it, and my friend from American producer, if it costs him more than All that there is now on which the industries Indiana was correct in the judgment that he be gets for the article he produces there is no of this people can be carried on is what little || gave, and the Senate led by outside influences, wealth to him and no wealth to the nation. national bank currency there is afloat and the || by men who have given this question no stndy

It is within my own experience that the capi: Government legal tenders, which by statute whatever, were wrong, and I will show you how. tal required to do the same business in this are constantly being reduced and hid away in I read from the Bankers' Gazette of Friday, country beyond that required by the man doing the vaults of the banks. The interest that is | March 5, 1869 ; they tell the truth sometimes: a similar business in Great Britain is more than | paid by the borrower to-day is just double what

"Since thelate legal-tender decision of the Supreme ibree and a half times as much; and I illus. it was at the close of the war.

Court authorizing contracts to pay coin, lenders feel trate it in this way: the English manufacturer I have said that the capital required by the more at liberty to demand coin interest, and the plies his spindle at eighty cents and does his | farmer and the mechanic in this country over

banks and conservative private bankers who hereto

fore have declined to accept more than seven per business upon a capital to employ that spindle that which is required in Great Britain is three cent. in currency now feel less hesitation about askof eighty cents ; the American manufacturer is and a half times. Add to that the double rate ing gold rates when the condition of the market compelled to employ a capital of $2 75 for that of interest, and it is unnecessary that you shall

enables them to do so." spindle.

pursue your discoveries one step further to In the interest of high cost of interest, in That is answer enough as to whether the understand exactly where the evil is in your the interest of protection to capital, the capi. volume of currency per head here if equal to financial management. It is just there and tal now absorbing all the best interests of this the volume of currency per head in Europe is nowhere else. Great Britain's system of rail. country, and to destroy them. If I should say sufficient for this country. That is but one illos. || roads, based upon her low interest and abun to anybody that it is my deliberate judgment Wation; but it illustrates the whole business of dant capital, will carry a ton of coal one hun. that this Government has failed in the object the country, mechanical, farming, and manu. dred miles for what it costs me in this country that it was intended by its projectors to secure, facturing. It is a case in point and illustrates to carry a ton of coal three miles. I pay for || I suppose I should be scouted at. But, sir, the whole. Everything is in just that situation. carrying a ton three miles as much as the man when I compare the situation of this country I will give you anotherinstance to complete the ufacturer in Great Britain pays for transporting to-day with the situation of that country from picture. We make horse-shoes in this country, it one hundred miles.

whence we sprung I find that not only in capiand it costs, without counting the capital in All these things are true; there is no mis tal, but in general intelligence, in education, vested, five cents per pound for each shoe. I take in one of them; and there is no necessity in liberty among the people, they far exceed can go to Canada and have them made for two whatever to surmise or to speculate as to what the privileges and the power of the people of cents per pound. Thedisparity is two cents there is the cause of the present disturbances in busi this country. They are increasing in a ratio against five cents in this country. Is it known

Go ask any distributor of goods in New which is most astounding in education and in to the Senate or to anybody that in every arti York or Boston what is the condition of their all the refinements of life, as the statistics cle that is produced in this country, whether it accounts for the past three years touching the show. After the convulsions which racked is an article of mechanics, manufactures, or payments of the debts made by the West, and this continent, and considering the intimate agriculture, a very large element of the cost is there is not one of them who can show that he relations that subsist between this country and the price paid for capital? Take, for instance, could pay his interest and his rents. There is Great Britain, what was the effect of our war corn at fifty cents a bushel. Two thirds of that not one of them who, if he tells you the truth, | upon that nation? A simple Fenian commobfty cents is the cost of the capital employed will not say that he is in debt; the poor debts tion; and that was all. Look at her, commandin the production of that bushel of corn. that have been made, the failures that have ing one fifth of the territory and one fourth of

Everybody in this country is willing to admit occurred, have been greater than all the profits the population of the globe; her commerce that we are wanting in capital, and that any made from business; and they will tell you occupying prosperously and profitably every measure which will tend to create capital in again that the securities otherwise in their sea; her industry permeating and being introthis country is that which is desirable beyond possession are weakened twenty per cent. duced into every market in the world, standing all other things. Now, I tell the Senate and How long, I ask, can a country pursue that strong, able, and powerful everywhere. And, I tell the people of this country that the policy sort of business and be assured at all that it where are we? All we have to help ourselves pursued from the beginning, of contraction can maintain any value for its public debt? in the world is our cotton, which we are about and of a constant indorsing of the public debt, Some people—and there are such here in the to lose, and our tobacco, which we shall lose. bas in effect driven capital from this country, Senate perhaps-will say that the recent ad. My friend from California (Mr. Cole) will made that which was scarce still scarcer, ruined vance of your bonds in Europe was caused by say that we have the production of gold. Sir, Four commerce. your manufacturing, and your the proposition now before the body. There is that bears the fortune of cotton and wbeat and farming, and even the bankers themselves, who are some people who will believe even that everything else. You find in the gentleman's are row constantly at your bar begging for that is the lact. Well, sir, if it is any satisfac own State that the bigh price of capital and its

4 1st Cong. IsT SESS. -- No. 5.

ness.

are.

cessors.

scarcity, made so by your acts, have driven || portunities for money-making in that depart what is to be may be relied upon. There can men from the production of gold into farming ment, inducing the people of the whole country be no mistake in the things that I have given and wool raising. This paper that I have who have capital to employ their means in because they have been found established on before me shows and speaks and criticises the those operations, withdrawing them from the facts upon the exact situation in which things immense falling off in that production.

business interests of the country. Sir, you set I could give the record for them all, but What, I ask, are you to rely upon to sustain the example of speculation when you, in order I forbear ; I know they will not be read. If, the price of your public debt when there is no to create a better value for your legal tenders, | therefore, I have drawn attention in a different profitable occupation for your people? Will make them scarce. What more have Drew, direction from what has been heretofore given ibis bullying operation that you have tried for and Fisk, and Gould done?-and yet you con to the Senate, it is because I have studied this the past three years have any effect? What demn them. What more did Vanderbilt do subject in the direction through which Great will this proposition of curtailing the currency when he convulsed the market in his efforts to Britain has obtained her successes, and by in order to increase its value effect ? Nothing l place Harlem where he did? You do the same which we can obtain similar successes. I know but the same old story: want of prosperity, thing exactly under the sacred sanction of law of no other way to understand a question than wantofemployment, and a condition of national and in behalf of a great people. You are a to compare the condition of things in a coun: indebtedness like that of Mexico. Why not stock jobber and gold gambler as much as try embarrassed with the condition of things have made an effort to restore prosperity to all they.

in a country that is prosperous. I ask the the branches of your industry on which to have If the country is prosperous why is it that attentive consideration of the suggestions that floated your debt and maintained its price, you are convulsed with failures and bankrupt I have made, not expecting to embarrass parrather than by constitutional amendments and cies? Why are your newspapers and your ticularly the passage of this measure, but still by statute law be constantly making an effort to courts filled day by in every village, in being opposed to it as being a measure similar pull up the price of your national securities, every town, and in every city of this country in its character and tendencies to the whole driving what little capital there was left into | with accounts of bankruptcies? There were financial system which has embarrassed the their investment and depriving every other | twenty-six hundred failures in 1867, twenty. country for the past three years. industry of the necessary means to carry it on. six hundred failures in 1868, and God only

MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. I do not sympathize at all with any of these knows what will be the extent of them for 1869. projects for paying the five-twenties in green It is said that the Parliament of Charles II A message from the House of Representa backs or legal tenders, because that will be was the most successful of any of its prede- || tives, by Mr. McPherson, its Clerk, announced depriving the Government of full value for what

It was in consequence of its repeali || lution, in which it requested the concurrence

that the House had passed the following resothey gave, and it will be robbing the people; || ing most of the laws that had been enacted for the introduction of an additional amount centuries before. This Congress may with

of the Senate : of currency, not heretofore well settled, not || profit follow its example. They will do well Resolved, (the Senateconcurring.) That the Speaker heretofore permeating through all the avenues to look back and take back the acts which have

of the House of Representatives and the President

of the Senate adjourn the respective Houses of the of business and trade, will for the time being tied up the capital of the country or forced it Forty-First Congress of the United States for ibe depreciate the value of all, and that capital beyond the uses of its people.

present session on Friday, the 26th of March instant, being the only capital that the people hold they I did not intend, Mr. President, when I rose

at twelve o'clock m., without day. would be robbed by any such increase of issue. to my feet this morning to occupy the time of The message further announced ibat the If those whose business it is to look well the Senate so long; and I beg pardon for having | House bad passed the following concurrentresointo this question will examine the policy pur done so ; but the subject has worn upon me,

lution, in which it requested the concurrence sued by Morris when closing up the business and the thought of the condition to which this

of the Senate : of the Confederation after the Revolution, or country is certainly drifting, and the fact that Resolved by the House of Representatives, (the Senby Hamilton in reconstructing the finances those around me would not listen, nor will they

ate concurring,) Tbat a joint special Committee on

Indian Affairs, consisting of nine members, three on the formation of the Constitution, or by believe what is the true condition of the coun.

from the Senate and six from the House, be apDallas when correcting the evils growing out || try at the present time, the fact that no impres. pointed, to whom shall be referred all matters relatof the war of 1814, and will embody upon our sion can be made upon anybody about me,

ing to treaties with Indian tribes, payment of annu

ities, and examination of claims reierred to Congress system the theory and practice established by makes me sick at heart and almost unable to

from the Interior Department relating to Indians, those men the country will ask for nothing

I would not have occupied the atten with power to consider all questions arising under better, tion of the Senate for a moment if that condi

said treaties, and whether the same may be abrogated.

annulled, or modified; and whether any further The country and its business interests were tion of things did not exist. Sir, if there was treaties shall be made with Indian tribes, and if any, prostrated to the very dust three months ago any credit, or if there was any advantage to under what restriction; and whether any and what by the retirement of $6,000,000 of currency by the country in the position taken by me in the

revision of the several acts providing for the organ

ization of the department of Indian affairs may be speculators in New York through Fisk and beginning of this war, if the force of that ex

expedient or necessary; and also whether any and others; and yet last month there was drawn ample amounted to anything, or if I have ever what further provision may be necessary for auditing into the Treasury $13,000,000 more than was done anything in the course of my life of ad

accounts, examining vouchers presented in relation distributed to the country-enough to stagger

to feeding and caring for the Indians, and in what vantage to the country, this of giving the exact

manner and to what extent they shall be subsisted, even the strength and stability of Britain's condition in which the country is placed tran.

and what lands shall be reserved and set apart for finances. No nation under heaven can stand scends them all.

them, and how the same may be secured by law to that draft upon it, can stand the scarcity pro

the use of the Indian tribes; and finally to consider

The Dutch said to the English somewhere the expediency of determining by law what shall be duced by that result. And yet people wonder | about the middle of the sixteenth century, " So the legal status of persons of Indian descent under why we are so affected by the rise and fall of

the laws of the United States, and what course aball long as you are jealous of our financial policy gold; and we say it is owing to the fact that we we shall continue to be mistress of the seas;

be taken toward them which shall best tend to their

civilization, Christianization, and ultimate citizenare not paying specie. Sir, if you forced your we shall continue to do the manufacturing and ship: and to report thereon by bill or otherwise. Said self into a condition of the payment of specie | the weaving also for the continent and for the

committee shall have power to cmploy a clerk and

examine witnesses, if necessary. to-morrow you would not have benefited your world.” When the Dutchman succeeded to the position one iota. The same scarcity of capital, throne of James after the revolution of 1688

The message also announced that the House the same high rates of interest would exist then England obtained tbe Dutch system, and from

had passed the following bill and joint resoluas exist now; and that condition of things being a Power less than Holland at that time, with || tion, in which it requested the concurrence of

the Senate: so, you could not raise wheat in the West, we an income not as great as that of Holland and could not manufacture in the East, and we not one fourth that of France, in thirty years

A bill (H. R. No. 7) to strengthen the pubshall have nothing to do to employ our com she triumphed over them all. Preëminent stand

lic credit; and merce, nothing whatever to give to our flag on William of Orange and William of Nassau--one

A joint resolution (H. R. No. 6) for the progiving liberty to his country in his contest with

tection of the interests of the United States in It is said that the tariff is the cause of these Charles V; the other giving liberty, civiliza

the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and for high prices. I deny it. If you will give to me

other purposes. tion, power, to the English nation superior to a system in your Treasury that will let the that of any nation, ancient or modern.

PUBLIC CREDIT. money out of it at a given rate as fast as it is I have illustrated in two or three little things Mr. SHERMAN. The bill that has just received I, for one, will pledge myself to advo to show that it was in the most trifling append. come from the House of Representatives is in cate the repeal of all your tariff laws in five age almost to your Treasury that had determ- | the same words as the first section of the bill years. We ask for nothing in this country, in ined all these things; and if I can call the || which is now under consideration, and I hope my judgment, but the reception of the revenues attention of Senators to that one point, and if that by general consent it will be substituted upon the market to control capital in the inter they will look at it as they look at any other || in place of the present bill, so that we shall est of abundance and a lower rate of interest. subject which occupies their minds, they will not go through the form of passing the same Give me that and I will be your strongest advo. give to their country a position equal to that bill by the two Houses in different form. cate for a repeal of all your tariff acts.

now held by England with every other advan The VICE PRESIDENT. If there be na We condemn speculators and gold gamblers tage beyond that of any people in the world. objection the House bill, the Senator from and stock-jobbers. I have been led into that With this financial system fully established the Onio stating that it is in exactly the same error myself. But, sir, those gentlemen but career of this people in development in every language with the bill as it now stands in Com. occupy the position that they have been taught direction will be the wonder of this age and mittee of the Whole, will be substivuted for the to occupy, and they avail themselves of a per of this period.

bill before the Senate.

Mr. SHERMAN. I ask the Secretary to is that the Congress of the United States, under of this measure.

I tell the Senate that every verify it to see if they compare exactly. the advice ot had advisers, leave open the op word that I have said as to either what is or The VICE PRESIDENT. The bill (H. R.

move.

the sea.

expect to influence the passage

1

No. 7) to strengthen the public credit will be resolution expressing å principle I propose to out of which this bond originated ; and upon considered as read the first and second time; assert that the responsibility of the United its appearing by proof or by the admissions and it is before the Senate as in Committee States upon the bonds which now form the sub of the Rothschilds that the transaction was of the Whole.

stance of the public debt is, according to equity simply a loaning by them of $100,000.000 to Mr. DAVIS. I offer an amendment to the and law and reason, simply to pay the value in Stewart in legal-tender notes, what would be bill, which I send to the Chair.

gold and silver of the amount of ihe bonds at the judgment and decree of the chancellor The Chief Clerk read the amendment, which the time they were issued and sold by the Gov. between those individuals? He would ascer: was to strike out all after the enacting clause ernment.

tain the value of the legal tender notes at ibe of the bill and to insert:

Sir, we all know what the object was in Con. time of their loan in gold and silver, and be That the just and equitable mcasure of the obliga gress passing laws to authorize the issue of would render a judgment for the amount of tion of the United States upon their outstanding these bonds. It was simply to borrow money. that value. If it was in proof in such a suit bonds, which were issued and sold as a means of borrowing money, is the value at the time in gold and

It was simply to organize a form of loan by or was admitted by the parties that i he legal. silver coin of the paper currency advanced and paid which money inight be borrowed. We ali tender notes at the time of the loan were worth to tbe Goverowent on those bonds.

know, furthermore, that after the first issue of but fifiy or sixiy cents in the dollar, the chan. Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President, I do not pro legal tender notes, after the laws authorizing cellor would give his judgment and decree in pose to discuss at any length the measure under these bonds bad passed and the bonds were favor of the obligee in the boud for the filiy or consideration. I said essentially all that I desire offered for sale in the market, they could not sixty million dollars only, and that would be to say upon the bill wben the subject was before be sold even for legal-tender notes at the rate a full and complete satisfaction and discharge the Senate at the late session. I however pro of discount in gold at which those legal-tender of the obligation of Stewart. pose the amendment which bas just been re notes were then passing. In other words, the Sir, that is the universal principle of law that ported from the Secretary's table.

legal-tender notes would not float the bonds controls the action of all equiry courts between The measure that is now under consideration at the then discount of legal-tender notes, and

individuals. Wherever one man borrows from is not a subject of legislation. It is not in the in order to remedy that difficulty Congress another money, not gold and silver coin, but nature of a law. It proposes no action. It is successively authorized the issue of two large paper, and that paper is at a depreciation at not an enactment at all. It is simply the enun. || batches of legal-tender notes in addition. the time of the loan, although he may execute ciation of a principle or a sentiment, or of The desired effect was produced ; the legal his note payable in dollars and may recite in principles and sentiments. That is one aspect tender notes were still further depreciated in addition that the payment shall be in gold and of the subject. Another aspect of the measure the market; and this induced capitalists who silver dollars, that would not enable the parties is that it proposes to give a construction to laws held the legal-tender notes to come forward to evade the laws of usury. The paper would beretofore passed by Congress in relation to and invest them in bonds by advancing the be as much subject to the laws of usury and to this subject

amount in legal-tender notes upon the bonds the judgment which the chancellor universally Now, sir, the bonds of the United States of the Government. It was then not only a propounds in all cases of usury as though the were issued by authority of laws passed by Con. mere l'orrowing of money by the Government bond bad expressed upon its face that the congress. Those laws were passed some years of the United States, but it was contemplated sideration was $100,000, if you please, in legal. since. The measure under consideration does and intended at the time that the money bor. tender notes, and there was recited an obligation not propose to modify those laws by the enact- rowed should not be gold and silver coin, be to return the money in dollars of gold and silver ment of another law, but it proposes to give cause it was impracticable then to borrow coin. The fact that the paper was expressive a construction to laws previously enacted and money in coin within the United States, unless in one case of the transaction and detailed ex. under which the bonds referred to were issued. at a very heavy discount, on the bonds of the actly and correctiy how it had taken place, and In that aspect it seems to me to be outside of United States. The object was to avoid a heavy in the other transaction concealed these facts the pale of legitimate legislation. If the laws discount seemingly in the sale of the bonds by and expressed simply an obligation to pay so under which these bonds were issued were reqniring them to be sold either for gold or many doilars or so many dollars in gold and defective and needed modification and reforin, silver, or to be sold for legal-tender notes until silver coin, would make no difference in a court and the measure now under consideration was those legal-tender notes had been depreciated of chancery as to the judgments that would be in the nature of supplemental legislation, I | largely by two successive issues of additional rendered in the two cases. could conceive of the seeming propriety of the legal-tender notes.

Now, sir, the universal rule of eqnity and measure that is now before the Senate; but The operation, then, was simply the bor. law that would regulate and control the judg. when this measure proposes no enactment rowing of so much money from the individuals ment of a chancellor in every case between whatever, no supplemental or modified force or who purchased the bonds, not in gold and sil. || individuals cannot be a wrong or an unjust rule effect to the previous legislation of Congress | ver, but in deprecia' ed paper currency called when it is attempted to be applied to a transthat regulated the subject of these bonds, it || legal-tender notes. The proposition embodied action of the same cbaracter between the Gov. seems to ine to be simply in the nature of giv by my amendment is that upon such a transac ernment and an individual, What entilles ing construction to those previous laws; and in tion as that the Government is not bound by hond holders who have loaned money to the that respect, in my opinion, it trenches upon any principles of equity or law to respond in Government to a judginent for a larger amount what are the proper functions of another 'de the nominal amount of the bonds by the pay. than would be accorded to an individual who partment of the Government, the judiciary. ment of that nominal aniount in gold and sil had loaned money of precisely the same cbar.

By what authority or by what right does Con. ver; that everything which equity and justice acter to another individual Ought not the gress give construction to its previous laws ? would require the United States to pay and same common and universal rule of right and We all admit, and it is every day's practice, Congress to pass laws to authorize to be paid equity to regulate and control the righis of the ibat legislation may be modified by subsequent would be simply the value in gold and silver creditor in both cases, whether the debtor be acts of Congress; but when the effort is not to of the depreciated paper currency which was the Governinent or an individual ? legislate, not to enact a law, but simply to give loaned to the United States by the bondhold Here, sir, is a simple loaning by the individcoustraction and interpretation to the meaniug ers at the time the loan was made. That is a ual and borrowing by the Government, not of of previous laws, to my mind it seems to be a position so just that no man, I think, can suc gold and silver coin, but of depreciated paper. palpable departure from the propriety and from cessfully controvert it.

I maintain that the creditor gets all that is ibe power of the Senate and of Congress. It I propose to apply to this subject, as between equitably and legally due him when he gets the seems to me to be an invasion of the constitu the bondholders and the Government, precisely value of the paper commodity which he pays tional and peculiar province of the courts ; and || the same rules of law and equity that would be to the Government in gold and silver, and that in that point of view I think this measure ought || applied by every court of chancery in the world Congress ought to adopt the rule which a chanto fall. It ought not to be passed by Congress to individuals in relation to similar transactions. cellor would adopt in giving judgment between because it is not, in fact, in essence, legislation Suppose, now, one of our merchant princes bondholders and the Government. If it was at all, but is simply the usurpation by Congress || Mr. Stewart—had borrowed $100,000,000 from legal for the Government to be sued by its of a judicial function in attempting to give con the Rothschilds, and bad executed his note to creditors, as it might be made so, and this substruction and interpretation to the laws to which that firm for $100,000,000, and the money that ject of the amount which the bondholders are it refers.

he received upon this loaning and borrowing entitled to have upon their bonds was pending If it had been presented, not as an enact. instead of being in gold and silver was in green in any enlightened court in the United States, ment, but as a resolution embodying a princi- || backs, precisely the same medium and the || in the Supreme Court or in any other court, ple, embodying a sentiment, and not attempt. same depreciated paper which the Government || and in that litigation it was made to appear ing to interfere with the construction of the received from the men to whom it sold its bonds; that the bondholders had advonced and lent law which belongs to another department of and upon the falling due of the note or bond money, not gold and silver, but depreciated the Government, I would have been ready to which Stewart had executed for $100,000,000, paper to the Government, and that that paper admit its legitimacy and its propriety. I think payable merely by the word “dollars,” with at the time it was advanced by the bondholder it ought to have been presented in that form. out any expression whatever that the debt was to the Government was worth but fifty or It is in substance nothing else than the pre to be paid in currency, Stewart should not sixty cents in the dollar, no court in America sentation of a principle or a sentiment to the make payment of the money, what would fol. would give against the Government a judgment consideration of the Senate, which usually low? Suppose the Rothschilds sued him in for any greater amount than fifty or sixty cents comes up in the form, not of a law, but of a any court of the United States, Federal or in the dollar. Can that just and equitable rule resolution, either separate or joint.' I there. State, and obtained judgment for the nominal that pervades universally every court in Great fore so treat it; and in the amendment which amount of $100,000,000, it would be the right Britain and in the United States, and which is 1 offer I propose to give it the form of a reso. of Stewart to go into a court of chancery and the law of reason and justice between the lution, not of a law; and in the form of a there investigate and litigate the transaction parties to such a contract, be condemned if

ness.

Congress in regulating these bonds and the uals. This universal rule of equity and justice and every transaction between individuals of a liability of the Government upon them should and reason that controls the transactions of all similar character the obligor in such bonds, as adopt that as the measure of responsibility of individuals and that is made the criterion of between individuals, would be held only rethe Government of the United States? Cer the liability of individuals in every transaction sponsible for the gold and silver value of the tainly not.

ought to be applied to similar transactions paper at the time he borrowed it, and that the What does this measure propose? To guar between the Government and individuals. It Government and the people of the United anty to give a pledge on the part of the Con. cannot be repudiated. It is as just between the States ought not to be made responsible by a gress of the United States that the bonds shall Government and the bondholder as it would different law; that it was justice and equity not now be paid, but that when they are paid be between citizen and citizen, and it is the that they as well as individuals should be bourd they shall be paid in gold and silver for the universally accepted law of equity and right || only for the gold and silver value of the paper nominal amount of the bonds; and paying the and reason that the civilized world has adopted | they had received upon the loan, and that nominal amount instead of the real amount, as in all such transactions.

Congress in pledging the Government to pay I showed when I made my remarks on this sub. Mr. SAWYER. Will the Senator allow me the nominal amount of the bonds was about to ject before, makes a difference in the interest to ask him a question ?

pledge the people of the United States to pay bearing bonds of the United States of upward Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

more than nine hundred million dollars above of seven hundred million dollars-about seven Mr. SAWYER. · I should like to ask the what by law and equity and the universal rule hundred and fifty million dollars. The usury Senator if the case would be altered if you they ought to be held responsible for. that has already been paid upon the bonds by took into consideration the fact that the legal Several executive messages were received paying six per cent. in gold on the nominal tenders which had been given to the Senator from the President of the United States by amount adds still further to this sum, swelling from Ohio for his bond had been issued by the Mr. HORACE Porter, his Secretary. it to about nine hundred and seventy or nine Senator from Kentucky for commodities sold Mr. WILSON. I move that the Senate prohundred and eighty million dollars. by him?

ceed to the consideration of executive busiWhat, then, is the question that is presented Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; it would not change to Congress ?' The bonds show an aggregate the matter at all; and I can bring hundreds of Mr. SHERMAN. I think we had better amount of $2,100,000,000. These bonds were cases to prove that the principle of usury which | finish this bill. simply issued upon the receipt of the amount directs the debt to be scaled when there has Mr. WILSON. If Senators think they can in a depreciated currency in legal-tender notes. been a borrowing and a lending applies as well get a vote on this bill I will not press the Ascertain the value of the legal-tender notes to the purchase of property as to the purchase | motion. loaned to the Government when the bonds of a paper currency. The principle is uni Mr. WILLIAMS. I hope so. were issued and sold and it makes a difference formly established and adjudged everywhere, Mr. WILSON. I withdraw the motion. in the aggregate nominal amount of the bonds in every court, that wherever the contract is The VICE PRESIDENT. The question is and of their value in gold and silver of upward substantially a borrowing of money no terms on the amendment of the Senator from Ken. of nine hundred million dollars. When you in which the obligation can be drafted, no tucky. include in that aggregate the usury that has device to avoid usury and the subjection of the The amendment was rejected. been paid in the six per cent. interest upon the contract to the laws of usury can succeed; that Mr. VICKERS. I offer the following amendnominal amount of the bonds the difference in where a spurious paper, that is, a depreciated | ment, to be added as a proviso : the amount of the bonds, without regard to paper that is worth less than par in gold and

Provided, That nothing herein contained sball be this usury, is about seven hundred and fifty silver, is made in whole the consideration of a considered as binding the Government to purchase million dollars. What does this resolution pro bond, or where property and that sort of paper

coin to pay the bonds of the Government pot ex

pressly provided by law to be paid in coin, if there pose? To guaranty, to pledge to the bond in part is made the consideration of a bond shall not be coin or its equivalent in the Treasury with holders the sum of $750,000,000 of principal, calling for the payment of a nominal amount which to discharge the said obligations. and one hundred and odd million dollars that in dollars, the transaction will be examined I do not design to detain the Senate on this have been discharged by the payment of usuri- | into, eliminated by the chancellor, and where | amendment, as I desire to abbreviate the sesous interest beyond the value of the bonds in this spurious currency has been to the whole sion as much as possible, which I hope is the gold and silver at the time they were created extent or partially the consideration upon which desire of the Senate generally. This bill proby the loan of this spurious and depreciated the bond has been executed the court will as. || vides a pledge of the Government for the pay. paper to the Government.

certain the amount of usury in the transaction ment in coin of all the interest-bearing obli. Is it just and fair legislation to the people of || by learning what amount of the depreciated | gations of the Government. It also provides the United States to pass such a measure? I paper has entered into the consideration and that the payment of these bonds shall not be concede that the proposition is not practical, that what that depreciated paper was worth in gold anticipated unless the Government has sufit does not propose to do anything at the pres and silver at the time; and the difference be ficient coin, or the currency of the country be ent; but it simply proposes to pledge, to give an tween the nominal amount of the depreciated convertible into coin ; but it makes no proother guarantee of the faith of the Government paper and its gold and silver value is the meag. vision for the payment after the bonds become for the payment of these bonds to their full ure of usury that all courts will find in the due. Now, I desire to test the sense of the nominal amount. Why is this measure pressed ? transaction and against which it would give | Senate whether, if when these bonds fall duc If this Congress passes it, whenever another relief. That is the plain law. Every judge, specie payments shall not be resumed and Congress is elected that is willing and disposed every lawyer that has any reading and any there shall not be coin in the Treasury to pay to do right and equity between the Govern practice knows that that is the plain law that the bonds, it is the intention of the Sepate to ment and the bondholders according to the would regulate all cases of loaning and borrow. purchase coin to discharge these obligations. universal rule that would guide a chancellor in ing formally or substantially.

if that is the design of the Senate I desire it his judgment in such a case between individ. Now, sir, I make the question to the Sen to be said so upon this amendment. If the uals or between the Government and individ. ate, why do you propose to depart from this Senate do not by this pledge mean to puruals, all that that Congress will have to do will universal rule of law and equity in all the chase coin for the payment of the bonds after be to repeal and to repudiate the bill which transactions of individuals, and impose a a differ they fall due, in tbe event of specie payments this Congress may now pass, and such repudia- ent law upon the people of the United States not having been resumed at the time, then I tion will be had. It is robbery, it is iniquity and the Government of the United States, wish the Senate to say whether they intend to for this Congress to make the people of the which charges them with an additional sum of purchase this coin or whether they intend to United States pay $900,000,000 more than by $300,000,000 in gold and silver, from the pay. pay in the currency of the country. That is equity and law they are bound to pay. ment of which individuals would unhesitatingly the object I have in view in offering the amend

If the honorable Senator from Ohio, the able be excepted in the judgment of every chan. ment. and accomplished chairman of the Committee cellor.

The amendment was rejected. on Finance, had my bond for $100,000, due and Mr. President, I did not intend to make as The bill was reported to the Senate without payable twelve months after date, and he was many observations on this subject as I have. amendment, and ordered to a third reading. io institute a suit against me in any court upon I merely wanted to put by my amendment | It was read the third time. that bond, and I should litigate the case and this question distinctly before the Senate and Mr. DAVIS. I ask for the yeas and nays by his adwission or by proof it should appear the country. I wanted the people to know on the passage of the bill. that the transaction was a loaning by him to me that the consideration which they had received The yeas and nays were ordered. of $100,000 in legal-tender notes, and I should upon these bonds was in a transaction of the Mr. BAYARD. Mr. President, this I underprove that those notes at the time of the loan Government borrowing money ; that the Gov. stand is a House bill in the same terms to & were worth but fifty or sixty cents in the dollar, ernment did not borrow money when it sold certain extent as the Senate bill wbicb was the only judgment he could obtain against me its bonds, but it borrowed greenbacks. These under discussion in this body last week. But would be for the fifty or sixty thousand dollars | greenbacks were greatly depreciated. When now Senate bill No. 56, which we had under with interest upon it.

Would that be any in. some of the issues were made they were worth consideration last week, has been shorn of one justice to him? Would he not get the full only forty cents in the dollar; when others half of its title, and of one half or inore than value of the commodity that he had parted with were made they were fifty cents, and others one half its substance. The title of this bill now to me? That would be the judgment which sixty cents in value.

I wanted to present to reads "a bill to strengthen the public credit." every chancellor in christendom would render the people distinctly that they had received in Its title so far is a challenge to American rein the case. My honorable friend knows, every gold and silver value for the $2,100,000,000 of spect. But do the object and effect of the bill lawyer knows, that that would be the rule of bonds only a fraction above $1,200,000,000, upon examination bear out the high sounding equity and justice which every chancellor in according to the gold and silver par, and that phrases of its vile? I apprehend not. Is this christendom would apply as between individ by all the laws that regulate courts of chancery "bill to have the effect " to strengthen the public

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