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due respect, address himself to the President, confining himself strictly to the point in debate, avoiding all indecent and disrespectful language.

3. No member shall speak more than twice in the same debate without leave.

4. A question being once determined, must stand as the judgment of the House, and cannot again be drawn into debate.

5. While the President is reporting, or putting any question, none shall entertain private discourse, read, stand up, walk into or out of the House.

6. No member shall vote on any question touching his own conduct in, or rights and privileges as, a member of this Convention, or in any other case, where he was not present when the question was put by the President or Chairman of any Com

mittee.

7. Every member who shall be in the House when any question is put, shall, on a division, be counted on the one side or the other.

8. Each day, before the House proceeds to any other business, the Secretary shall read the Orders of the Day.

9. The Secretary shall not suffer any records or papers to be taken from the table, or out of his custody, by any member or other person.

10. A majority of the members of the Convention shall be necessary to proceed to business, and every question shall be determined according to the vote of a majority of the members present. Any smaller number shall be sufficient to adjourn, and fifteen to call a House, and send for the absent, and make any order for their censure or discharge.

11. When the House is to rise, every member shall keep his seat until the President passes him.

12. The Journals of the House shall be daily drawn up by the Secretary, and after being examined by the President, be printed, and one copy be delivered to the Secretary, and one to each member without delay.

13. A majority of any Committee shall be a sufficient number to proceed to business.

14. Any person shall be at liberty to sue out an original writ or subpoena in chancery, in order to prevent a bar by the statute of limitations, or to file any bill in equity, to examine witnesses thereupon, for the sole purpose of preserving their testimony against any member of this flouse, notwithstanding his privilege; provided that the clerk, after having made out and signed such original writ, shall not deliver the same to the party, or to any other, during the continuance of that privilege.

15. Any person summoned to attend this House, or any Committee thereof, as a witness in any matter depending before them, shall be privileged from arrest, during his coming to, attending on, or going from the House or Committee; and no such witness shall be obliged to attend, until the party, at whose request he shall be summoned, do pay, or secure to him, for his attendance and travelling, the same allowance which is made to witnesses attending the General Court.

16. If any person shall tamper with any witness, in respect to his evidence to be given in this House, or any Committee thereof, or directly, or indirectly, endeavor to deter or hinder any person from appearing, or giving evidence, the same is declared to be a high crime, or misdemeanor; and this House will proceed, with the utmost severity, against such offender.

17. No person shall be taken into custody by the Sergeant at Arms, on any complaint of a breach of privilege, until the matter of such complaint shall be examined by the Committee of Privileges and Elections, and reported to the House.

18. The Sergeant's fees shall be as follows, to wit: for taking any person into custody, two dollars; for every day he shall be detained in custody, two dollars; for sending a messenger to take any person into custody by warrant from the President, eight cents per mile for going, and the same for returning, besides ferriages.

19. On a call of the House, the doors shall not be shut against any member, until his name is once enrolled.

20. When any member shall keep his seat two days, after having obtained leave of absence, such leave shall be void.

21. No business shall be introduced, taken up, or considered, after 12 o'clock, until the Orders of the Day shall be disposed of.

22. Any member, on his motion made for that purpose, on being seconded, provided seven of the members present be in favor of the motion, shall have a right to have the ayes and noes taken upon the determination of any question, provided he shall give notice of his intention to call the ayes and noes, before the question be put, and In such case the House shall not divide, or be counted on the question, but the names of the members shall be called over by the Secretary, and the ayes and noes shall be respectively entered on the Journal, and the question shall be decided as a majority of votes shall thereupon appear: provided that after the ayes and noes shall be separately taken, and before they are counted, or entered on the Journal, the Secretary shall read over the names of those who voted in the affirmative, and of those who voted in

the negative; and any member shall have liberty at such reading to correct any mistake which may have been committed in listing his name, either in the affirmative or negative.

23. The petitioner who contests the election of a member returned to serve in this Convention is entitled to receive his wages only from the day on which such petitioner is declared duly elected.

24. Select Committees shall be composed of some number not less than five nor more than thirteen.

25. It shall be the rule of the House, in all cases of balloting, to fill one vacancy only at a time.

26. The Committee of Privileges and Elections shall report to the House in all cases of privilege or contested election, to them referred, the principles and reasons upon which their resolutions shall be founded.

27. In all cases of balloting for the election of any officer by this Convention, if on the first ballot no person shall have a majority of the whole number, on the second ballot the person who had the smallest number of votes shall not be balloted for; and so on each succeeding ballot till some person shall have a majority of the whole.

28. In all cases wherein a division of the House on any question propounded from the Chair, is rendered necessary, in the opinion of the President, by the equality of sound, or required by the motion of any member, the members voting on the question which occasions such division, shall be required to rise in their places; and if on a general view of the House, a doubt still remain in the President, or any member thereof, on what side the majority is, the members shall be counted standing in their places, either by the President, or by two members of opposite opinions on the question, to be deputed for that purpose by the President.

2. The Committee appointed to examine the ballot-boxes shall count no blanks

therein.

30. The documents ordered to be printed by the House shall be printed on paper of the same size of the Journal of this Convention, and a copy shall be bound with each Journal, to be furnished to the members at the end of the session; and it shall be the duty of the printer of the House to print one hundred additional copies of each document ordered to be printed for the above purpose.

31. It shall be the duty of the Committee of Privileges and Elections to examine the certificates of election furnished by the sheriffs, in order to ascertain the members of this Convention duly elected, and to report thereupon.

32. Seats within this House, such as the President shall direct, shall be set apart for the use of the members of the General Assembly and of the Executive, of the Judges of the Superior Courts of this State, and of the United States, and of such other persons as the President may think proper to invite within the bar.

33. It shall be a standing rule of the House that the President be authorised to call any member of the House to occupy the Chair, and exercise the functions of President, until he may resume the Chair; with this proviso, that the power given by this rule shall not be construed to confer on the President a right to place any member in the Chair of the President for a longer period than one day.

On motion of Mr. Doddridge the Journal and other papers before referred to were ordered to be printed in the octavo form.

On motion of Mr. Mercer, it was ordered, that the act of the State Legislature which authorised the organization of this Convention, be added to the papers to be printed, and then the House adjourned.

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 9, 1829.

The Convention met at 12 o'clock, and its sitting was opened with prayer by the Rev. Bishop Moore.

Mr. Scott from the Committee on Privileges and Elections, made the following report:

The Committee of Privileges and Elections have performed the duty assigned them by the rules of the House, and beg leave to report, that they have examined the returns of the sheriffs, and find that the following persons have been duly elected members of this Convention, to wit:

From the District composed of the counties of Amelia, Chesterfield, Cumberland, Nottoway, Powhatan, and the toon of Petersburg-John W. Jones, Benjamin W. Leigh, Samuel Taylor and William B. Giles.

From the District composed of the counties of Brunswick, Dinwiddie, Lunenburg and Mecklenburg-William H. Brodnax, George C. Dromgoole, Mark Alexander and William O. Goode.

From the District composed of the counties of Charles City, Elizabeth City, James City, Henrico, New Kent, Warwick, York, and the Cities of Richmond and Williamsburg-John Marshall, John Tyler, Philip N. Nicholas and John B. Clopton.

From the District composed of the counties of Shenandoah and Rockingham--William Anderson, Samuel Coffman, Peachy Harrison and Jacob D. Williamson.

From the District composed of the counties of Augusta, Rockbridge and PendletonBriscoe G. Baldwin, Chapman Johnson, William M'Coy and Samuel M'D. Moore. From the District composed of the counties of Monroe, Greenbrier, Bath, Botetourt, Alleghany, Pocahontas and Nicholas-Andrew Beirne, William Smith, Fleming B. Miller and John Baxter.

From the District composed of the counties of Sussex, Surry, Southampton, Isle of Wight, Prince George and Greensville-John Y. Mason, James Trezvant, Augustine Claiborne and John Urquhart.

From the District composed of the counties of Charlotte, Halifax and Prince Edward— John Randolph, William Leigh, Richard Logan and Richard N. Venable.

From the District composed of the counties of Spottsylvania, Louisa, Orange and Madison-James Madison, Philip P. Barbour, David Watson and Robert Stanard.

From the District composed of the counties of Loudoun and Fairfax-James Monroe, Charles F. Mercer, William H. Fitzhugh and Richard H. Henderson.

From the District composed of the counties of Frederick and Jefferson-John R. Cooke, Alfred H. Powell, Hierome L. Opie and Thomas Griggs, jr.

From the District composed of the counties of Hampshire, Hardy, Berkeley and Morgan-William Naylor, William Donaldson, Elisha Boyd and Philip C. Pendleton. From the District composed of the counties of Washington, Lee, Scott, Russell and Tazewell John B. George, Andrew M'Millan, Edward Campbell and William Byars.

From the District composed of the counties of King William, King & Queen, Essex, Caroline and Hanover-John Roane, William P. Taylor, Richard Morris and James M. Garnett.

From the District composed of the counties of Wythe, Montgomery, Grayson and Giles-Gordon Cloyd, Henley Chapman, John P. Mathews and William Oglesby. From the District composed of the counties of Kanawha, Mason, Cabell, Randolph, Harrison, Lewis, Wood and Logan-Edward S. Duncan, John Laidley, Lewis Summers and Adam See.

From the District composed of the counties of Ohio, Tyler, Brooke, Monongalia and Preston-Charles S. Morgan, Philip Doddridge, Alexander Campbell and Eugenius M. Wilson.

From the District composed of the counties of Fauquier and Culpeper-John S. Barbour, John Scott, John Macrae and John W. Green.

From the District composed of the counties of Norfolk, Princess Anne, Nansemond and the Borough of Norfolk-Littleton W. Tazewell, Joseph Prentis, Robert B. Taylor and George Loyall.

From the District composed of the counties of Campbell, Buckingham and BedfordWilliam Campbell, Samuel Claytor, Callohill Mennis and James Saunders.

From the District composed of the counties of Franklin, Patrick, Henry and Pittsylvania-George Townes, Benjamin W. S. Cabell, Joseph Martin and Archibald Stuart.

From the District composed of the counties of Albemarle, Amherst, Nelson, Fluvanna and Goochland-James Pleasants, William F. Gordon, Lucas P. Thompson and Thomas Massie, jr.

From the District composed of the counties of King George, Westmoreland, Lansaster, Northumberland, Richmond, Stafford and Prince William-William A. G. Dade, Ellyson Currie, John Taliaferro and Fleming Bates.

From the District composed of the counties of Matthews, Middlesex, Accomack, Northampton and Gloucester-Thomas R. Joynes, Thomas M. Bayly, Calvin H. Read and Abel P. Upshur.

On motion of Mr. Mercer, the report was laid on the table.

On motion of Mr. Fitzhugh of Fairfax, a Committee was appointed to fix the compensation to be allowed to officers of the Convention; whereupon, the following gentlemen were appointed by the Chair, viz: Messrs. Fitzhugh, Loyall, Stanard, Barbour of Orange, and Bayly.

Mr. Doddridge moved that the report of the Committee of twenty-four, should now be taken up for discussion, but expressed his willingness to withdraw the motion, should any member express a wish for farther time to consider it.

No such wish being expressed, the motion was agreed to, and the report taken up accordingly. Previous to its discussion, however,

Mr. Mercer of Loudoun, explained to the House the reasons why he should not offer the resolutions which he had yesterday laid upon the table, and which had been printed together with the report of the Committee. He stated it to be his intention

to offer at a suitable time, the resolution which he had yesterday read in his place, and which had subsequently been laid upon the table; the object and purport of which he now explained. It was to suspend that rule of proceeding which limits the number of members composing Select Committees to thirteen, with a view to move the reference of the first and fifth resolutions reported, to a Select Committee, consisting of one member from each Senatorial District, and then to refer the third, fourth and fifth resolutions to similar Committees. His design in this proposition was to avail himself of all the intelligence of the body in devising and maturing the best course to be pursued in arriving at the objects of its appointment. Should this plan be adopted, its effect would be to bring into employment the whole faculty of the House: the talent, knowledge and wisdom of all the members would thus be brought into requisition, and exerted at one and the same time. Mr. M. said, he had thought it his duty to give this explanation by way of apology for not now offering the resolutions, which at his request had been laid on the table and printed.

Mr. TAZEWELL, of Norfolk Borough, now rose and said that it would be more satisfactory to him, if the scheme to which he was desirous of offering his own resolution as a substitute, was made by its advocates as perfect as they desired it to be, before his substitute was considered: he had no wish to urge his own proposition as a substitute to another, while that other was confessedly in an imperfect form: he desired, on the contrary, that gentlemen would first make their proposition as perfect as they could, and when they had done this, that the House should judge between the scheme thus complete, and that which he presented to it. But, if the gentlemen who had reported the resolutions now before the Convention, were willing to wave this advantage, and leave their plan as it was, he should now proceed to redeem the pledge which he had given to the Convention yesterday, and move as a substitute for the resolutions, reported by the Committee of twenty-four, that which, at his request, had been printed and appended to them.

Mr. Tazewell then offered the following resolution:

Resolved, That the most expedient method of bringing before the Convention any amendments to the Constitution which may be proposed, will be, to take up the existing Constitution or form of Government of Virginia, with the Declaration of Rights, and regarding them for the purposes of examination and discussion, merely, as a plan proposed and reported by a Select Committee, to refer the same to a Committee of the whole House, there to be examined section after section, and to be dealt with in all other respects as a bill so referred by the House to that Committee usually is.

In making this motion, Mr. President, it is but fair, said Mr. T. to preface it by stating to the Convention that the same motion was made by me in the Committee, and rejected by a majority. But, Sir, notwithstanding this, I deem it due to the interest and importance of the subject, as well as to the solicitude of gentlemen who, not having been members of the Committee, have enjoyed no opportunity of recording their opinions in the case, to make this motion, in order that, at least, every member of this body may have the opportunity of expressing here his views and sentiments on the subject.

In examining the two schemes which are now before the Convention, it must at once be perceived by every gentleman, that in neither is there any principle involved. Each of them contemplates only the most convenient mode of conducting the business before us: it is a question merely of expediency and convenience. The simple question to be settled is, by which of two modes proposed, can the task imposed upon us by our constituents be best accomplished. The discussion is, therefore, narrowed down to a comparison of the different degrees of convenience presented by the two propositions. The difference between them lies in this only. By the scheme contained in my resolution, the existing form of Government is to be referred at once to the whole body, acting in Committee of the Whole, and to undergo a detailed examination there. The whole scheme will be before the whole body at the same time. Under such a state of things, every step that we take will be in reality a step in advance: whatever we do will diminish, so far, what remains to be done. But what will be the effect of adopting the scheme reported by the Committee? You dissect the subject submitted to you, and distribute its several parts to distinct and independent Committees. What then will be the condition of the body? If my plan be adopted, we shall, at once, on the spur of the occasion, begin to act. The Constitution will be printed immediately; we shall forthwith commence its revision; we shall make actual progress in our business, this very day, and so de die in diem, and the entire examination will very soon be completed. But if you pursue the other course, you cut up the whole subject into five, six or seven parts, and distribute these five, six or seven parts, among five, six or seven separate and distinct Committees; when this is done, what will remain to the body? Nothing, Sir. You have a Committee for what belongs to the Executive Department of the Government; another Committee for what pertains to the Legislative Department; another for what per tains to the Judiciary; and another Committee for what pertains to neither Executive,

Legislative nor Judicial, and then, Sir, what is this body itself to be doing? It must stand with arms folded, until the Committees, or some one Committee, give it something to do. Its faculties all suspended, it must meet only to adjourn; and how long such a state of things shall continue, must depend solely on the diligence of the Committees. But by my plan, the body can act at once; can act to-day, this very day it can begin and make actual progress in the great duties assigned to it by the people.

But, Sir, this is not all that will ensue upon the adoption of the report which has been presented by the Committee. The action of this body must be suspended, not only till some one of the Committees shall report, but till one certain particular Committee shall report. We are to have one Committee on the Bill of Rights; another Committee on the Executive; another on the Legislative; another on the Judiciary Department; another on some part of the plan of Government which is neither Executive, Legislative nor Judicial in its character, (though what that can be, I do not understand; for all writers that I have read, maintain that every function of Government is of necessity, either Executive, Legislative, or Judicial in its character :) thus, Sir, we are to have five Committees in operation all at one and the same time. On which of their reports must this body first act? On that relating to the Executive? No, Sir; on that relating to the Judiciary? No, Sir; on that which relates to neither of the Departments of Government? No, Sir. This body cannot act if all these reports were received, until the Committee on the Legislative Department have brought in its report; for this Department is universally and justly held to be the foundation af the system of all Government. How vain were it to proceed to any other part of the Constitution, till we had first settled that which is the supreme power in the State! How absurd to set about erecting an edifice, and to begin at the top! To attempt to proceed till the Legislative Committee shall have reported, must involve you in contradictions and difficulties at every step! For example; you come to take up the subject of the Judiciary; the very first question must be, how many judges are to be appointed? What shall be their duties? What their compensation? You take up the report of the Executive Committee, and your first enquiry is, what power shall your Governor have? Shall it be concurrent or exclusive? But all these things must depend on the report of the Legislative Committee; the details in the investigations of that Committee, are necessarily great; they must unavoidably consume a great deal of time; but be the delay ever so great, the Convention must wait till that Committee shall have completed its report; till then the whole body must remain on its oars, with nothing to do.

Nor is this all. He is little acquainted with the nature of Government, who does. not at once perceive that in distributing its several functions into various Departments, it is utterly impossible to keep them completely distinct from each other; do what you will, like the colours of the rainbow, they will necessarily run into each other, and become more or less blended together. The ingenuity of man, never yet has devised a form of Government, in which the powers of the different Departments, were not more or less confounded. What, then, becomes of the Committees proposed by the report before you? We are to have one on the Executive Department; another on the Legislative; another on the Judiciary; and another on things anomalous. The first question to be settled, will necessarily be, what part of the Constitution is to be referred to this last Committee. If it is not to touch things Legislative, nor things Executive, nor things Judicial, it can, as I conceive, have nothing to do. If it does touch them, or either of them, what happens? You have two distinct independent bodies, acting at the same time upon the same subject; and in all human probability, rendering to this body different and conflicting reports. Sir, it must be so. It cannot be otherwise. Their duties are co-ordinate; their powers the same; and unless they exhibit more of unanimity than has ever yet been witnessed among mankind, they must and will differ from each other. Sir, it is asking too much, to expect that gentlemen so situated, should concur in their reports. What follows? Each of these conflicting reports will be referred to the Committee of the Whole, and then the Convention will have to begin just where I wish them to begin now. Your Executive Committee and your Legislative Committee both, for instance, report in relation to the veto of the Governor. One says he shall have an absolute veto; or a qualified veto. The other that he shall have no veto at all. Both these reports come into the Committee of the Whole; we take up one and decide upon it, and then comes a new report and a new discussion. We have passed on the report of the Legislative Committee, and then comes in the report of the Executive Committee. The first question which will present itself must be a question of order; and thus the Convention will soon find itself involved in the meshes which are of all others, the most unpleasant and perplexing. But suppose you get clear of the question of order; then comes each Committee, urging and defending its own views; and on the next report the same scene must be acted again; and so over and over again, so long as there remains any other Committee to report. Thus the scheme proposed by the Committee, must

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