When the last portion of the debt will be paid off, and this vast balance of the sinking fund will be left on hand. Such will be the result of the operations of the existing sinking fund, even should the proposition be rejected. These large accumulations of money in the Treasury must occur-it is unavoidable, unless you reduce the sinking fund to $7,000,000. He had made a calculation, by which it appeared that the whole of the public debt (the Bank stock and three per cents. excepted) would be completely extinguished in 1835, when the last portion of the debt became redeemable, by a sinking fund of $7,000,000, and leave a surplus at the end of that time of $185,000; in 1836 seven millions of the Bank stock could be paid off if deemed expedient.

[H. of R

tors, but the Representatives of the People, who are forcing them thus hastily to discharge the public debt. It appeared to him unjust that the whole weight of the debt should be thrown upon the shoulders of those who had to fight the battles and bear the burdens of the war by which this debt was created.

The strong argument urged in favor of the motion, that it would hasten the payment of the public debt, went, therefore, for nothing-it was unfounded in fact. If you had a hundred millions of dollars idle in your exchequer, you cannot pay the debt until 1835, when the last portion becomes payable, and this can be as well accomplished by a sinking fund of seven, as of seventy millions.

By thus reducing the sinking fund to $7,000,000, $3,000,000 would be annually released from the public debt, which could be applied to a system of internal im provement, producing the most happy effect upon the national prosperity. It would not postpone the final payment of the debt, but only throw forward the surplus of the redeemable debt in 1828 and '29 upon the years 1831, 33, and 34, when very small portions of the debt would be redeemable; and thus the whole of the sink. ing fund would be kept actively and profitably employ.vernment were never in a more prosperous condition ed until the final extinction of the debt in 1835. Hence, Mr. S. contended, whether the proposition be adopted or not, it was the dictate of a sound and enlightened policy to reduce the present sinking fund from $10,000,000 $7,000,000.

But the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. BARBOUR] Suggests to me the reduction of the duties. To this Mr. S. said he could not assent; the duties were imposed for purposes of protection, and not for revenue: they were imposed to protect our national industry-to protect domestic manufactures from the ruinous effect of foreign competition. He could not, therefore, consent to their repeal. He would collect the revenue for one important object-the protection of our manufactures-and send it back to the People who paid it, for another equally important object, the improvement of their country.

By adopting this policy, you will prevent, measurably, the exhausting and injurious effects of withdrawing annually from the pockets of the People ten millions of dollars, and putting it beyond their reach; by this means three millions of it will be returned to its ordinary channels of circulation, promoting, at the same time, the most important national purposes—the permanent improvement of the internal condition of our common country.

There were many other strong considerations in favor of the adoption of this measure, which it was unnecessary at this time to urge upon the attention of the House. Enough had been said, he trusted, to show that there was no propriety in adopting this measure to accelerate the extinguishment of the national debt, the great and principal object of the motion.

On the contrary, instead of hastening, it was evidently the policy and duty of the Government to check its too rapid march towards the final extinction of the National Debt. We are running far ahead of the National Debt, and shall, if we stop not soon, have, as appears, large sums in hand which cannot be employed. A motion, therefore, to reduce the Sinking Fund to $7,000,000, would be much more reasonable than the one now submitted, virtually to increase it. Besides, by reducing the annual Sinking Fund, we will not postpone the period of the final extinction of the national debt-but merely equalize the payments, by transferring the excess of one year to another, when little or nothing was payable: if the sinking fund were twenty millions instead of ten, the debt could not be paid before the year 1835, when the last portion became redeemable-the holders of the stock, it was well known, would not accept the payment as long as they could avoid it. It is not the public credi

VOL. IV-54

These were among the reasons which should induce him to vote against the propositions: he had thought it his duty to present these views of the real state of the finances, not merely in reference to the question now to be decided, but to prevent the idea from going forth to the country that we were obliged to sell our bank stock to pay our debts; that the Government was embarrassed and put to its last shifts to pay the public creditors, when, in fact, the financial concerns of the Gothan at the present moment. We are left free to appropriate liberally to objects of national importance, and it would be no apology to say, we cannot fulfil the public expectations because we are in debt. We are pressing our creditors, not they us. Mr. S. concluded by saying, there was no reason to sell this stock to pay the public debt, and it had been clearly shewn, by other gentlemen, that, in every other point of view, it was impolitic-he therefore hoped that this subject, and the public mind, would be put at rest, by a prompt and emphatic rejection of the proposition.

Mr. RANDOLPH, of Virginia, said, that he had not risen to debate the question at all: for he believed that whatever other opinions might be held as to the resolution, all must unite with him in thinking that it was not at all well-timed. I was in hopes, said Mr. R. that we should meet, despatch the necessary public business, and return to our respective homes, for once, as early this year, as the Constitution will oblige us to go home the next. My object in rising, is to move, (and I hope my worthy colleague will excuse me) that the resolution lie on the table, with the view of not taking it up again at the present session. Mr. R. then moved to lay the resolution on the table.

On this motion, Mr. TAYLOR, of New-York, asked for the yeas and yeas, and they were ordered by the House. The question was then put on ordering the resolution to lie on the table, and decided in the negative.

Mr. FORT said that there was no gentleman who had a greater desire than he had, that the time of the House should not be unnecessarily consumed, and that this question should receive a prompt decision. He could not however agree with the gentleman from Va. who had just taken his seat, that the resolution was ill-timed ; he thought it well-timed-yet it was a question which ought to be settled as speedily as possible. He believ ed the general sense of the House was against the proposition. Nevertheless, the discussion of it was not useless or improper, as the nation would look to the debates of this House, as to a proper source from whence to derive information on the subject. He rose with a view to advocate the resolution, but in doing so, he felt great difficulty and great embarrassment, as he must follow the honorable gentleman from Virginia, who had given to the subject the investigation of a master, and had presented his view of it in so ingenious and eloquent a manner. He thought the argument of that gentleman had not yet been refuted; he had rested his calculations on a mathemetical basis, but

H. OF R.]

Bank of the United States.

[DEC. 21, 1827.

The nation is a mere Stockholder in the Bank, It has, as such, all the rights of any other Stockholder. and may sell out its interest whenever it may think it most expedient to do so. But, what right have we to suppose that the holders of the Stock do not themselves know its true value? The selling off of our portion of the Stock can have, if any, but a very trivial effect. Our selling out of our Stock cannot justly be interpreprotection from the Bank; there is no gentleman here who thinks of touching the charter during the period it has to run-and the buyer of the Stock knows this. He goes into the market with his wits about him. Do gentlemen suppose that the buyer of this Stock is in ignorance of what is transacted here? And why do they suppose he will fear to purchase; if, while 7 millions of the Public Stock is taken out of it, by paying so much of the Public Debt, the same amount is thrown into it by the sale of our Bank Stock? Surely, by such a transaction, the market will virtually be left as it is at present. I am willing to allow that the Stockholders purchased with the understanding that the Government would continue to hold its Stock in the Bank. It cer tainly was not to be anticipated that the Government would sell out during the present year. But the question of its value is a matter of very simple calculation. According to the security of payment, and the rate of interest paid, so will be the price of the Stock in market. Our citizens are not going to be deceived. We have thrown enough into the market to test its value, and that value is well ascertained.

I have, however, no desire longer to consume the time of the House, nor should I have said what I now have, had I conceived that the same view of the subject had been given by others.

they had not yet been met: those who had attempted better. to meet them had not drawn their topics of argument from the deductions of arithmetic, that sure, unerring guide, which never deceives those who rely upon it, nor leads to a false conclusion. The gentleman, said Mr. F. has given a comprehensive view of the whole subject-he has treated it with the skill of a master, and who shall venture to follow him? The subject was confessedly one of great obscurity: it has puz-ted as a proof that the Government have withdrawn their zled the wise, and the fool need not be ashamed to confess his ignorance of it. Yet he thought it might be still farther simplified. What was the nature of this institution when was it chartered? and for what purpose? and what was the condition of the national currency when it first went into operation? The currency was in a broken and confused situation-the various kinds of paper were made payable at short distances of time, and credit was very generally impaired. To remedy this state of things, and to aid the Government in its financial operations, a National Bank was created, with a capital of thirty-five millions of dollars. This amount was thought to be very large, and fears were entertained that so much stock would never find purchasers at its par value. Those who felt these appre hensions reasoned from principles which had been now so ably laid down in relation to the proportion between demand and supply. To aid in the disposal of this stock, the Government took it to the amount of seven millions, and received from the Bank a bonus of $1,500,000. (On this subject some dispute had arisen, but it had finally been decided that the Bank had a right to give this sum.) What was the result of the experiment? Twenty eight millions of the Stock was thrown into the market in one day. Was there any difficulty in finding purchasers? Did the Stock sell? It was a time of great pecuniary distress: did this prevent the sale? The Mr. HAMILTON said that, after the discussion which whole amount was bought up almost as soon as it was the subject had received, and all that had been said, and offered in market. What a comment did this fact fur- so well said, he should not have been disposed to pronish on the present fears of gentlemen! When it is tract, in any degree, a debate, out of which little practiproposed to sell, we are told the market will be glutted, cal usefulness was likely to arise, if some observations, and down goes the Stock. Nay, as soon as the propo- looking to ulterior consequences of no small moment, sal is heard of, down will go the Stock. But can you, at had not fallen from some of the gentlemen who had enthis time, glut a market with seven millions, which, so tered into the discussion, which he thought did not belong ago, took twenty-eight millions without the least long either to the crisis or to the subject itself. He difficulty? We are told that the value of stock is a should, otherwise, have contented himself with a silent moral consideration-that its value depends much on vote in the negative, however highly he respected the whether the charter is to continue; and that, if this is not motives of the mover of the proposition, and have rested likely to be the case, it will be of the less value, because the vindication of the vote he was about to give on the there is a difficulty in closing the concerns of the Bank. unanswerable argument which his colleagues and the genBut if the holders of Stock are under an erroneous im-tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. GORHAM) had presented pression as to the probability of the charter's being re- of this subject. newed, the sooner they are undeceived, the better. Is But gentlemen had not stopped where this question it not due to them at once to say, that Government is un- properly ended; the course which they had taken in der no obligation to renew it? Certainly. When the their argument, had seemed almost to imply, that the period for its renewal comes, those who shall occupy seats decision of the present question had, if not a direct, at in this House will judge of the propriety of renewing; least a remote connexion with a larger and more imnot from any obligation they are supposed to lie under portant inquiry in relation to the policy of a renewal of to renew it, but from considerations drawn from their the charter of the Bank of the United States. Now, views of the good of the nation. The gentleman from for one, he wished this kept entirely out of view; and Massachusetts has told us, that, before the old Bank ex- he protested, in limine, against either the discussion or pired, its Stock rose to 140 per cent. by the mismanage vote of the House on the proposition of the gentleman ment of the institution. If this be so, what security have from Virginia being considered as an indication of the we, that the bubble will not again burst? What certain feelings, much less a commitment of the opinion of ty have we, that the present advance of 234 per cent, is this body, to which no such question even indirectly not also the consequence of some mismanagement? Who belongs, and which the best interests of the country are the dealers in Stock? and why does Stocks rise and requires should be an open question, to be decided by fall, so that by their fluctuations whole fortunes are often those who are to come after us, with a knowledge amswept away? The reason is plain: There are a few per-plified and corrected by the experience of eight years sons who know the causes of the changes in price, while to come. He was aware that it would be a large, he the great mass of the holders know nothing at all of the might almost say a momentous question, perhaps in a matter, and are left to the mere mercy of events. But, period of peace the most so of any which was likely to if the Bank is really so situated that the nation can know agitate this Confederacy for the next quarter of a cennothing of its concerns, the sooner we get rid of it, the tury. He was aware that this gigantic institution, the

Bank of the United States, would be brought to a strict account; that it would be inquired how it had discharged the high purposes for which it was created; whether it had, indeed, given us a uniform currency, copious and healthful; whether it had equalized the exchange of the country, and had applied, at the periods it was most wanted, a remedy to one of the severest evils that can befall a community at all advanced in civilization and the arts-a decreasing circulating medium. These were questions, he, for one, was willing to leave with those who would be called upon to decide them, as well as the vast and complicated relations, constitutional and political, which belonged to the whole topic.

[H. OF R

Now, sir, although this gentleman has quite wit enough to contrive, and quite firmness enough to carry into effect, a tolerable conspiracy on all proper occasions, he has too much honesty to be engaged in any that are not in harmony with the purity and integrity of his whole life; and quite too much wisdom to undertake a conspiracy, without previously providing conspirators, which he seems to have overlooked in this matter; yet, depend upon it, that many an old fundholder, roasting his feet before the fire, will tremble in his flannel for his plum, and no doubt exclaim-there, you see how it is the moment these Jackson men have got possession of the House; away goes the bank of the United States "skyhigh," and we shall next see the "military chieftain," after his election, making his way, sword in hand, into the vaults of the Bank, and seizing its coffers as his espe cial portion of the booty after the strife and victory. Be quiet, gentlemen. Be assured we do not mean to run

our heads against the Bank of the United States-and this our vote will show.

But, sir, to be serious, I am far from thinking that it is an evil to those who permanently invest in the stock of the United States Bank, to know that the policy of that Institution may sometimes be discussed here, however prejudicial it may be to the interests of those who specu

It was true that his colleague (Mr. MCDUFFIE) had expressed his satifaction that the gentleman from Virginia should have indicated his belief that the charter of the Bank of the United States would be renewed. He, Mr. H., would not say that such a sentiment was not founded on enlarged considerations of national policy, but he would undertake to say this, that, without public sentiment in the State from which they both came, underwent some change, before this question came up for consideration, if he and his colleague entertained such opinions then, he rather thought their constituents would be apt to depute some other agents than themselves, to represent their sentiments on this subject, however high-late in its scrip. ly and justly the constituents of his friend and colleague appreciated his (Mr. McD's.) public services. The truth was not to be concealed, that in all those States in which the income of the Government vastly exceeds its local expenditures, the operation of the Bank of the United States is felt with more or less severity and inconvenience; on the other hand, in those States where the Government spends locally a greater part of what it collects, the operation of this institution is not only comparatively innocent, but beneficial South Carolina happens, unfortunately, to be in the former predicament, out of that very condition of things which he had indicated, and, although the Bank of the U. States was a mere instru ment, it was very natural for those who were writhing under the exhaustion, to find fault with the organ of suction itself, and in the agony arising from taking the medicament, not to be entirely satisfied with its sanative influence.

If our silence at any time when we ought to speak gives an artificial appreciation to this stock, it is the widow and the orphan, and those who are the victims of their own ignorance and the knavery of others, who suffer, and who will be sure to suffer, if any false deduc. tions are made from the sentiments which the House is about to pronounce on the single proposition before them.

That I am opposed to the resolution of the gentleman, I need scarcely repeat, and for reasons which are at once connected with considerations that carry with them somewhat the force of a moral obligation; reasons which were stated with unanswerable force by my colleague, [Mr. DRAYTON] which may be comprehended in a single sentence, to wit: that it entered into the consideration of the 1,500,000 dollars which the Bank paid the United States as bonus, that this co-partnership should continue during the duration of the charter.

Besides, on the ground of expediency, I am satisfied that the sale of that portion of stock which the Government holds, would be attended with a loss, not equivalent to the amount conjectured, but quite sufficient to render it an unthrifty operation. Not, indeed, that seven millions of stock of the Bank might not change hands in the course of the year, without a material depreciation; that is to say, through the transactions of private sellers; but the very moment the Government becomes a seller in the market, it would be taken not alone as a conclusive proof that the charter was not to be renewed, but the impression would be created that even the facilities which the Government gives this institution, in its various transactions, were in jeopardy, the very moment our co-partnership was at an end; from which would follow a ruinous depreciation of its stock.

There was another point in this discussion against which he would enter his protest, and that was the influences that were employed from abroad, for begetting an extraordinary sensitiveness in this House that any allusion to the Bank of the United States, and the connexion of the Government with it, was a most serious derangement of the financial condition of the country. Some gentleman seemed to think this subject was only to be touched by the practised hand of a fundholder; that a man of plain sense and common honesty was not to approach it; and above all, it was eminently mischievous for the Representatives of the People to entertain such a discussion, or inquire into our interest in this copartnership, forsooth, because the speculations on 'Change might be suspended for a day or two, and some over-grown stock jobber realize two or three per cent. less than he otherwise would. He knew well that a plethoric fundholder was one of the most sensitive mortals upon I say, then, let this institution go on unembarrassed the face of the earth; that he considered the barometer by either our fears or prejudices; let it enjoy all those of 'Change Alley, of almost as much value as the scrip- advantages for which it has honestly and faithfully paid tures; and a fall in the price of stock nearly as severe a a full equivalent. And whilst we are provident of the calamity as the entire loss of the sacred writings. Cob-present, let us be uncommitted as to the future. bett has humorously told us, that nobody can touch a ruffle in the brocade of the Old Lady in Thread needle Street, as he calls the Bank of England, without giving her a fit of hysterics and setting the whole country in commotion. We seem to be coming to the same state of things. But this is not all my friend from Virginia cannot introduce a matter involving a mere financial question of profit and loss, without being charged with a party plot of the worst omens.

:

Mr. WEEMS said, he had yesterday opposed the motion for adjournment from his anxiety to see the question disposed of, and had not intended to say a word in the debate ; but since it had been discussed to day, it had presented itself to his mind in a double aspect. One of these views had been, in a great measure, anticipated, by the gentleman from South Carolina, who had just taken his seat; he would therefore curtail what he had intended to say on that head. He joined heartily in the protest

H. OF R.]

Bank of the United States.

[DEC. 21, 1827.

against any pledge being derived from the decision of the present question, as to what this House would do when the question of renewal of the Bank charter should come before it. He held that the House would be under no obligation derived from this source, but perfectly free and unfettered as to granting or refusing. He was opposed to the resolution; not, however, because he held the sale of Stock to be any violation of a contract with the Bank. The contract of Government with the Bank contained two specific obligations; first, that the Government shall supervise the manner in which its affairs are conducted. This stipulation was separate and independent; it was introduced because the United States were to make all its deposits in this Bank. But a second stipulation was, that the Government should have a share in the direction, as it continued bound to superintend also the liberties and interests of the American People. Should a mammoth institution like this be left without any special guardianship or control, it might possibly become an instrument in the hands of some ambitious aspirant to put a crown upon his head and ruin the freedom and happiness of this People. The next stipulation was, that the United States should hold one fifth part of the stock of the Bank. As a stockholder, however, she has clearly a right to sell out whenever she shall deem it expedient for her fixed interest to do so. We are told in the volume of truth, "all things are lawful to me, but all things are not expedient." The sale was lawful, but he was opposed to it as not being expedient-and of this he did not despair to convince the getleman from Virginia from the arguments he had himself employed. That gentleman had shewn that the price of the stock depends upon the abundance of the means to purchase it, and the difficulty of other investment, and had correctly insisted that if, while United States stock is diminished by redemp tion of the Public Debt, the means of other investments are supplied by throwing so much Bank stock into market, no great difference in the state of the market was justly to be apprehended. There might perhaps be a temporary depression in the price of this stock, but it would be only temporary and transient ; to so much of the gentleman's argument he entirely agreed. Another point of the argument was, that, in proportion as the Public Debt was paid off, the opportunities of investment enjoyed by the public creditors, ought to be increased. This also was true as a general position. But were they not abundant, and daily increasing? This was a moment of vast speculation in undertakings of all sorts. The stocks in market were almost innumerable: Manufacturing associations, canal companies, road companies, &c. &c., were all competitors for the loose and floating capital of the nation. This was, therefore, a most unpropitious moment at which to offer our stock for sale. The modes of investment were already possessed-and, according to the gentleman's own doc. He then drew a striking picture of the gloomy state trine, in relation to demand and supply, the stock could of the public resources during the late war, and the con. not be expected now to hold its price. But should Gov-trast produced in two years by the operation of the Naernment wait till these several stocks were in a good de- tional Bank, during which time the amount of paper curgree taken up, the United States' Bank Stock might be rency had fallen from one hundred and ten millions to offered with much better prospects of a profitable sale. fifty three millions. He enlarged on the salutary influ Instead of 23 per cent., it might then bring 50, and even ence of this institution, in regulating the issues of the 60 per cent. advance. local banks, and yet in treating them with all reasonable indulgence. It was not, he insisted, in the power of this Bank to be oppressive in its operations; the Government had a complete and constant control over all its proceedings, and could, in a moment, correct any abuse, should it ever be attempted. He paid a merited compliment to the gentleman who presides over the exchequer, (Mr. M'DUFFIE, Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means,) for the honorable sentiments he had expressed in relation to the introduction of party bitterness into such a discussion as this. Such sentiments were worthy of the station he occupied, and added, that he should as soon

realised. The gentleman had stated only the credit side of the account, and seemed to forget that, by selling out our 7 millions, we parted with a capital which would continue to yield an annual interest of 70,000 dollars. Here Mr. W. went into a long calculation, the result of which was understood to be, that, allowing the steck to retain its price at 23 per cent. advance, the United States would gain by the sale only 453,000 dollars, instead of 1,600,000 dollars.

He then proceeded to consider the probability of the stock's retaining its price, and contended, that such a supposition was disproved by the gentleman's own principles. He said, that the stock derived its value prin cipally from the permanency and security which belonged to it. The 3 per cents. were high, because they had long to run, but the United States' Bank stock, instead of being secure for even eight years, might be redeemed tomorrow. He denied that the price of this stock presented any strong temptation to capitalists. It was worth, by the gentleman's own shewing, but about 44 per cent. but there were steamboat and canal stocks in abundance, almost any of which offered a more inviting prospect. But, besides this competition for investment, the gentleman had not warranted his wares ; he had also prudently shielded himself from any liability to which he might have been subjected, by a concealment of their defects; he had put the purchasers on their guard against ascribing too much value to the stock, from a hope of the extension of the time of redemption, by apprising them of his hostility to the renewal of the bank charter; that this was honest and honorable, although not calculated to enhance the price of the article. Many other stocks, while they yielded a larger dividend, promised a much better prospect of permanency.

This view of the subject was, he thought, sufficient to show that it would be bad policy to adopt the resolution. He had ever been a friend to the Bank, but he did not, nevertheless, believe that Government were at all bound to hold the stock any longer than it might be for its pecuniary advantage.

Mr. S. WOOD, of New York, next addressed the House in opposition to the measure. After recapitulating the fiscal calculations on which the mover placed the expediency of the sale, Mr. W. proceeded to show that the supposed gain of 1,600,000 dollars would not be

Mr. W. next dwelt on the probability of the price being purposely depressed by the combination of money dealers, and went into a series of statements, going to shew the prospects of profit under various supposable degrees of depression. He concluded this calculation and the arguments connected with it, by shewing a strong probability of loss, instead of gain, by the ope ration of selling.

He then went into some observations of a more gene. ral character. The first had reference to the probabil. ity of the charter being renewed. He regretted this topic had been introduced at all; it was calculated to affect the national credit, than which nothing was more delicate or more easily injured. He adverted to a saying of Mr. Crawford, that there never had been an instance, in which a legislative body attempted, by legislation, to regulate the national currency, in which they had not com pletely failed. In this matter, mere theory was ineffectual and deceptive; experience alone could be reliedon.