blight and decay, more and more antiquated, like 19th or 20th-century mausoleums, and not only dirty and unattractive, but grossly inefficient.

Downtown rail yards, with their air pollution, and poor utilization of available city land, have become an anachronism.

Therefore, I make the following proposal to the railroad from the city of New Haven.

Our Church Street land development program can be extended across Union Avenue to include some 15 acres of railroad property. This area now contains the railroad parking areas, railroad station proper, certain track areas, and freight and express terminal.

The city would acquire, through the redevelopment agency, the entire 15 acres, including the railroad station.

This would provide a substantial amount of working capital for the railroad.

The city, working for the railroad, providing capital and redevelopment participation, would reorganize the area as follows:

Demolish the present railroad station building, which is ugly and inefficient, and no asset to the city of New Haven, to say nothing of the railroad.

Through private capital, the city would actively negotiate to find a private developer. There could be built a new, modern, efficient building, that would be located about 100 yards south of the present station.

It would contain space for railroad ticket, traffic and dispatching functions, on a lease basis, and related facilities to serve travelers, a restaurant, a bus terminal, and similar uses.

In other words, it could be a nucleus for a new transportation center. It would be a convenient, attractive and economical building. It would be on the city's taxrolls and, at the same time, reduce the railroad's operating expenses.

Using our city's revenue bond powers, and we may end up underwriting it by a private developer, which has already been done in New Haven, the city would erect a ramp parking facility to accommodate

600 cars.

The parking facility would serve not only the commuters, but, also, people who work on the railroad, passengers using the railroad for long trips to Boston, Providence, Washington, D.C., and other points. And tied in with the parking, perhaps on the ground floor of the building there would be a freight operation connected with the station, and convenient access to the station and the parking would be provided via ramps from the Church Street extension and from Union Avenue. A shelter platform would be located directly off the ramps.

I think, gentlemen, that this is a proposal which has great merit both for the railroad and for the city.

The city of New Haven was prepared to take this step 5 years ago. I made essentially the same proposal at that time to Mr. George Alpert, then President of the New Haven Railroad.

Shortly after that, the railroad went bankrupt, and Mr. Alpert stepped down as President, and no action was taken.

And that same kind of assistance, in general terms, was offered to Judge Anderson in October of 1961, shortly after the railroad's reorganization.

The idea was not made public, since at that time the offer was made as a proposal to be a subject of discussion and negotiation between the city and the railroad.

It was not followed through by the railroad, and I dropped it.

The idea still makes economic sense, financial sense, and esthetic

sense.

This is a sample of our city's willingness to participate in and attempt to make possible any relief to the New Haven Railroad.

We are rebuilding our city, as you probably saw when you came in. Nearly $175 million in new construction has been completed or is underway, and nearly $50 million more is on the drawing boards.

We are prepared to do our share for the New Haven Railroad as part of this amazing reconstruction of the city. We need the New Haven Railroad, and we need it desperately.

Senator PASTORE. Thank you. If I understand you, Mayor, the city would buy the existing property and pay the New Haven for it, and then build these facilities through a public bond issue and lease it back?

Mayor LEE. Yes. Sir, we would extend our redevelopment project, which is right there now, across the street, to include the 15 acres.

We would acquire, through our development program, the present railroad building, and related freight yard lines which are on Union Avenue.

Senator PASTORE. For which the railroad would be paid?

Mayor LEE. That is correct. We would then acquire land and relocate the building by a private developer, to build a new structure which would house the railroad ticket facilities, a waiting station, and such other functions as a bus terminal, perhaps, and a restaurant. Senator PASTORE. And the railroad would pay for its use?

Mayor LEE. The railroad would lease the ground floor, hopefully, for ticket facilities and a waiting station.

Senator PASTORE. Let me say this to you, Mayor, that this proposal made our coming here worthwhile.

Mayor LEE. Thank you very much, sir.

Senator RIBICOFF. I want to comment about Mayor Lee, that this is in line with everything he has always suggested, which is very constructive, very practical, and very valuable.

I would hope that the trustees would immediately open negotiations with you, Mayor Lee, because it makes sense, and it makes commonsense, and I don't think they ought to wait for all these other proceedings.

You have now publicly explained your city's position. It is a good one, and I hope the trustees would have sense to start talking to you

at once.

Mayor LEE. Thank you very much, Senator.

Senator PASTORE. Thank you very much, Mayor. It was a pleasure to have you.

Mayor LEE. Thank you.

Senator PASTORE. We will hear now from Mr. Michaelian.

Mr. MICHAELIAN. Mr. Chairman, Senator Ribicoff, Congressmen, my name is Edward G. Michaelian. I am elected county executive of Westchester County, vice chairman of the Metropolitan Regional Council, chairman of the Metropolitan Area Coordinating Committee for the Price-Day Transportation Committee.

In my county there are 14.6 miles of the right-of-way of the New Haven Railroad. On that right-of-way we produce annually 16,650 daily passengers, from the outer limits of our county into and out of Grand Central Terminal.

Connecticut, in its Fairfield County area, matches that number of passengers by providing a similar number that commute from the Fairfield area into and out of Grand Central through Westchester County.

Contrast this with 9,800 persons who at the present time go into and out of New York by automobile from our county, utilizing the same roads and highways that I did today, the New England Thruway and parkways to get into and out of New York.

The point I make there is this, that should the plan of the trustees to curtail freight service in Westchester County, followed by an abandonment of passenger service and the commutation service on the Westchester end of the New Haven Railroad, should that come about, calculating two persons per automobile, which is about the average, it would take 100 acres, gentlemen, of land in the city of New York to provide parking areas for those automobiles alone, to say nothing of the traffic tieup that would be caused by an additional 16,000 cars coming into and out of the city of New York, on our already choking highways, carrying people to and from work.

I am not going to belabor the point, as it has already been so ably put by you gentlemen, but, let me say that my county, in the past, has cooperated wholly and completely with the Connecticut Transportation Authority, its chairman, who is here today, Frank Reinhart, with Senator Ribicoff, when he was Governor, and Governor Dempsey now. On county, despite the fact that it only has 14.6 miles of right-of-way in Westchester County, voted to put up $400,000 so that the plan of Governor Dempsey and Governor Rockefeller to provide $20 million, and thereby provide 80 new commuter cars, could be accomplished.

And, in that respect, we are matching dollar for dollar the amount of money that Connecticut was putting up for the constant operation and maintenance that is required in order to relieve the New Haven Railroad of its burden.

I was very disappointed yesterday when I saw the headlines in the paper, and, today, coming up here, I feel that my trip has been worthwhile, because I have been reassured by your statement, Mr. Chairman, and by Senator Ribicoff. The statement of Secretary Martin is nothing new.

I heard practically the same thing in 1962, in the month of May, when we met with the trustees up here in New Haven, and we were discussing Federal participation in the problem of the New Haven Railroad.

It would seem to me that all levels of the government, county, municipal, State, and Federal, have a stake in this New Haven Railroad, and I quite agree with you, sir, not only will there be a blight on the New England States if the New Haven Railroad dies, but my own county of Westchester, the city of New York and State of New York will also be vitally affected.

So we look forward to a continuing cooperation with the Governors of the States involved, with the mayor of the city of New York, and with you, our Senator, and Representatives in Congress, to participate

in saving the New Haven right-of-way, that very, very valuable rightof-way,which must be retained and in keeping the railroad going.

If there is anything further we can do to cooperate, we shall certainly accept our share of the responsibility.

Senator PASTORE. Thank you very much.

Mr. Congdon, we are very happy to have you here.

Mr. CONGDON. Thank you, sir.

(The statement of Howard S. Congdon follows:)

STATEMENT OF HOWARD S. CONGDON, CHAIRMAN, TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE, GREATER PROVIDENCE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

Mr. Chairman, gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity of appearing before you today.

My name is Howard S. Congdon and I am the traffic manager of the Cranston, R.I., plant of the Grinnell Co.

I appear here today, however, as chairman of the transportation committee of the Greater Providence Chamber of Commerce. The chamber has a membership of almost 1,100 firms, represented by over 1,800 individual memberships in the Greater Providence area.

For some time we have been disturbed at the continually decreasing revenue of the New Haven Railroad and the ever present, and I might say, increasingly possibility that the New Haven might cease operations.

Providence is a city of slightly over 200,000 people and with a commercial area of nearly 1 million. The only railroad service in Providence, or in Rhode Island, is the New Haven Railroad.

The chamber supported the petition of the New Haven Railroad to be included in the New York Central-Pennsylvania merger and the former chairman of the transportation committee appeared at the hearing of the Interstate Commerce Commission in support of the New Haven's petition.

We are firmly convinced that a cessation of operations by the New Haven would cause severe, if not irreparable, damage to the economy of Rhode Island and southern New England.

The cessation of freight operation would be a catastrophy, and many Rhode Island firms would have to cease operations, including ourselves. I am told that annually about one-quarter-million riders now move between Rhode Island and New York City on the New Haven, while nearly one-half million move between Rhode Island and Boston. The elimination of service for these passengers would work a severe hardship on them. Many of these would then have to travel by car, throwing an added burden on our already crowded highway system. With the billions spent on highways, which in many areas are reaching the maximum volume of vehicles, it appears logical that an increase, rather than a decrease, in rail service should be sought to ease the highway overload.

It appears that some form of subsidy is necessary for the New Haven Railroad if it is to continue operations. I realize that subsidy is not a matter which is looked upon with favor by many. However, much of the service rendered by the local service air carriers, including two carriers serving Rhode Island, is subsidized. It is my understanding that without this subsidy by the Government, these airlines could not operate. We recognize the necessity of the operation of these airlines, and we feel that the continuing operation of the New Haven Railroad service is even more necessary to the economy of Rhode Island.

For these reasons I appear here in support of legislation which would grant the necessary subsidy to the New Haven Railroad.

We support the position taken by Gov. John H. Chafee on this legislation when he appeared before your committee in Washington last week.

Thank you again for the opportunity of appearing before you and expressing the views of the Greater Providence Chamber of Commerce.

Senator PASTORE. Would you be a little more explicit, Mr. Congdon?

When you said, "including ourselves," meaning you might have to cease industrial activities in Rhode Island, why would that be so?

I think the record ought to be a little more explicit-
Mr. CONGDON. Yes.

Senator PASTORE. In that regard, because I think, myself, here we are actually getting into the core of the whole situation.

If the ICC should decide against the merger for any reason, then here we are, we are left with a deficit of about $17 million a year, which means $6 million freight, and the remainder for passenger service.

Now I realize that is one of the reasons why the trustees were permitted to file their petition for discontinuance of the passenger service, in order to save the freight service.

But I think it is quite important at this juncture to elaborate on what you mean.

Now, the Grinnell Co. employs how many people in Rhode Island? Mr. CONGDON. In Rhode Island, about 1,800.

Senator PASTORE. About 1,800 people?

Mr. CONGDEN. Yes.

Senator PASTORE. To what extent do you rely on the railroad for freight transportation?

Mr. CONGDEN. Last year, 1964, we controlled the Grinnell Corp., the home office, incidentally, is in Providence, R.I., we controlled about 10,000 carloads of freight last year.

Out of that, about a thousand moved in and out of my plant at Cranston, R.I.

Now, if we don't have a service that is maintained by the railroad, and here we are talking about a plant at Cranston, R.I., which was built for the employment of 1,800 men-incidentally, where we have five tracks right within the plant operation—the whole setup of the plant is built around a rail operation-now, if we don't have the limestone coming in from Mississippi, coming in by rail, to service this foundry, we are lost.

Senator PASTORE. We have no further questions of you, Mr. Congdon. We thank you very much for coming in.

All right, Mr. Bassett.

Can you give me an idea how long you are going to be?

Mr. BASSETT. You made a limit of 10 minutes, Mr. Chairman. Senator PASTORE. Good for you. Identify yourself for the record, please.

Mr. BASSETT. My name is Harold Bassett. I am president of the Connecticut Taxpayers Association. I am not speaking for either of the political parties. Nor am I speaking for the chambers of commerce, or for the commuters, who apparently want to have someone else pay for a part of their ride.

I want to commend you, Senator Pastore, for making it possible to have this hearing in New Haven. It is quite unusual, in my 70-odd years of experience and observation to have problems brought to the grassroots that concern the Congress of the United States.

I feel, gentlemen, including Congressman Giaimo of this district, and the distinguished Senator Ribicoff, as well as the distinguished chairman of this committee, and Mr. Irwin, a Congressman from the Fairfield County district, that we are indeed very fortunate in being able to address our remarks to you gentlemen of this committee, because you stood for office, you were successfully elected in office, and,