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Mr MADISON then moved, to add, after "Susquehanna" the words "or Potomac;" this would furnish au opportunity to examine and compare the two situations. It was so favorable to a discovery of the truth, that he did not doubt but gentlemen who were desirous of grounding their decision upon a full understanding of the subject would agree to the motion.

States, unless a feeble Government should en- The question, on Mr. Lee's motion for stri-" gender the anarchy of many separate sovereign-king out Susquehanna, and inserting Potomac, ties. It is a pleasing reflection, to trace the was put and lost, for it, 21, against it, 29. effect of the strength of this part of the Western Territory, towards securing the remaining Western region of the Union. At all events, the country east of a line, drawn from Lake Erie to the Chesapeake, will be safe from the force of any other part of America; will that other part be safe from this eastern part? Though national justice, and the wisest policy, should direct our councils, yet ambitious men Mr. BOUDINOT seconded this motion, and will find a motive and a pretext for fomenting supported it, by observing the necessity there a division. But those near the line of the east-appeared to be, of obtaining a more accurate ern half will be unwilling to be a frontier; knowledge of the two rivers, as gentlemen those further south will be equally so; and seemed to differ materially with respect to the what barrier, in case of a separation, have they to matter of fact. oppose to their northern neighbors? The mountains furnish none, and both parties live beyond them. The great rivers will expose them to hostile inroads, as they will afford a convenient passage to troops. In fact, the western people will secure the western people. If the separation should notwithstanding take place, it would not be because nature directs it. We should have the consolation of reflecting, that we have provided the best means of preventing its happening at all, and from it, after it has happened, the best security against the effects which will result.

I will not pretend to say, that any one of these arguments is conclusive; nor do I flatter myself that they will immediately produce conviction; I place dependence on the moderation and good sense of gentlemen who possess public spirit and private honor; I rely upon the calm review which they will make of my observations a week hence, when the fervor of this debate has subsided.

I appeal to their candor, at that time, to decide, whether, in point of centrality, accessibility, protection to the Union, salubrity, and safety from insurrection and invasion, there is not solid reason for establishing the seat of Government on the Susquehanna. I will not say that the Potomac is insalubrious; but it is well known, that northern constitutions are impaired by moving to a more southern latitude. The air may be healthful, but the change is found to be pernicious to them. Whether there is any foundation for it or not, the eastern people would dread the experiment.

An

The preservation of the Union is the worthiest object of a patriot's wishes. The world has doubted our success. I feel a consolation in the opinion, that the measure I am contending for will best contribute to that end. American Legislature may seek true glory by such measures as will tend to secure the Union, to preserve peace, and to diffuse the blessings of science, liberty and good Government over a greater extent of country, and in a higher degree than the world ever enjoyed them. SureTy, this will interest the pride of every honest heart. It is the philosophy of ambition, or it is the religion of politics.

Mr. SHERMAN contended, upon the principles adopted yesterday by the committee, that they could not think of going to the Potomac; he said, that taking the population, even allowing the slaves in the Southern States, there was the greatest weight of population northeast of the Susquehanna; but upon the ratio of representation, at a member for forty thousand inhabitants, there was but one million two hundred thousand south of Pennsylvania, one million four hundred thousand north, including Pennsylvania; but if the calculation was made from the Potomac, the south would contain nine hundred aud sixty thousand inhabitants, and the north one million six hundred and eighty thousand. Now, he would ask, if gentlemen could expect that the northern people would incline to go so far south? He apprehended they would not.

Mr. CLYMER had mentioned the navigation of the Juniata; but not confiding altogether upon his own memory, he had applied to a very well informed and respectable authority, the Governor of the Western Territory, for information, and he learned, that his former opinion was confirmed, and that five hundred bushels of produce had been transported, in one boat, from Frankstown, at the head of the Juniata, to Middletown.

Mr. MADISON said, the circumstances of being obliged to resort to such an accidental piece of information as the gentleman had just mentioned, strongly evinced, to his mind, the defective knowledge which the committee had at this time of what ought to have considerable influence on the determination of the present question. The object of this motion was to attain more accurate information.

The question being taken on inserting “or Potomac," it passed in the negative.

On motion of Mr. PAGE, the committee rose and reported progress, and then the House adjourned.

SATURDAY, September 5.

A memorial from the Marquis de Chartier de Lothbiniere was presented to the House, and read, stating his claim to two manors, and seignories, situated at the head of Lake Champlain, and bordering on the east bank of the

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head of the said lake; to the possession of which, the United States have succeeded by virtue of the late treaty of peace with Great Britain, and praying that he may receive an equivalent for the same, and a just compensation for the time he has been deprived of the possession thereof. PERMANENT SEAT OF GOVERNMENT. The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the whole, on establishing the permanent residence of Congress; when,

Mr. FITZSIMONS presented the following solution:

[SEPTEMBER 5, 1789.

he wished to know if the Legislature had conveyed such a right to Congress.

Mr. HARTLEY said, there had been some doubts with respect to the power of the Legislature to divide its jurisdiction with another; but the convention, who were chosen for the purpose of ratifying the constitution, had adequate powers, and had made a cession in the manner he before mentioned.

Mr. SUMTER apprehended it was necessary the cession should be made by the Legislature, re-because it was to be done by the State, and in the subsequent part of the clause it substitutes the word Legislature; from whence it may be fairly inferred, that the action is to be performby the Legislature of the State, and not by the convention.

Resolved, As the opinion of this committee, that the President of the United States be authorised to appoint commissioners, to examine, and reported to him, the most eligible siuation on the east bank of the Susquehanna, for the permanent seat of Govern- Mr. CLYMER said, it was specially referred to ment of the United States. That the said commis-the convention, by the State of Pennsylvania, sioners be authorised, by and with the advice of the to make the cession of territory alluded to in President, to purchase such quantity of lands as may the constitution; so, if the gentlemen would be be thought necessary, and to erect thereon, within satisfied, they had made a double cession; years, suitable buildings for the accommodation of the Congress, and of the officers of the Unit-namely, a cession by both the convention and the Legislature. ed States. That the Secretary of the Treasury, to

gether with the commissioners so to be appointed,

rate of

be authorised to borrow a sum not exceeding dollars, to be paid in years, with interest, at the per cent. per annnum, payable out of the duties on impost and tonnage, to be applied to the purchase of the land, and the erection of the buildings aforesaid. And that a bill ought to pass, in the present session, in conformity with the aforegoing resolutions.

purpose.

ther the cession extended to both soil and juMr. SMITH (of South Carolina) inquired whe

risdiction?

Mr. FITZSIMONS would auswer the question by asking the gentleman whether there was any thing in the constitution that looked like a requisition of soil?

Mr. AMES said, the opposition was more ingenious than solid, and hoped it was not intendMr. SMITH (of South Carolina) doubted the Fed to embarrass the business. If, however, the propriety of the resolution, because he con-State of Pennsylvania had not granted the juceived the declaration in the constitution re- risdiction, it did not follow, that Congress could quired a cession of territory as well as juris-not fix the permanent seat of Government diction. If he was joined in this sentiment by within its limits. Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) grounded his the committee, he would move that the President be empowered to appoint commissioners objection on principle, and he was not unsupto examine and report a proper place on the ported, for the cession of Delaware countebanks of the Susquehanna for a federal town,nanced the idea he contended for. He supand that, whenever the State of Pennsylvania posed a State might find its interest in purshall cede to the United States a certain dis- chasing such a tract and presenting it to Contrict or territory, not exceeding ten miles square,gress, at the same time it would defray to the Congress would accept thereof for the above United States all the expense of establishing a permanent residence. In the present low state Mr. SUMTER inquired, whether the State of of the federal treasury, this was an object of Pennsylvania had not already made a cession.considerable importance, and if it would be Mr. HARTLEY replied, that the State of Pennsylvania had, by its convention, made a cession, as required by the constitution of the Mr. LAWRENCE would inquire for what purUnited States, to Congress, of the jurisdiction over any district, not exceeding ten miles pose the cession, mentioned in the constitution, square, that may be chosen by the acceptance of was required? It was, in the words of that inCongress, for the seat of Government of the strument, to exercise exclusive Legislation in United States. He could not help expressing all cases whatsoever; now, did this consequence some degree of surprise that gentlemen should involve in it a territorial possession? It ceradvocate such an unreasonable proposition as tainly did not. It involved nothing more than that a State should convey to the United States the power of making laws, independent of the the fee simple in a soil which, in all probabili-State jurisdiction. The gentleman might have ty, was the property of individuals, and would require the exercise of a despotic power to wrest from them for that purpose.

Mr. SUMTER said, the committee could take no notice of what was done by the convention;

attained by taking as central a situation as that proposed in Pennsylvania, it was an argument of considerable weight in accepting it.

carried his idea further, for as the cession is to be made by particular States, it seems to infer that two States, at least, should be concerned in the cession; but would objections, from such forced constructions, have any weight in the

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Mr. GOODHUE believed, if the House had judgment of the committee? He trusted they would not. He supposed it more rational to agreed to go to the Potomac, there would have attend to the plain literal meaning of the con- been none of these constitutional difficulties stitution than to engage in the discussion of stated. It was well known, he said, that the the refined speculations of ingenious men. gentlemen from the eastward had no desire to Mr. VINING observed, that Delaware, Mary-take up the subject; but those from the southland, and Virginia, had offered to cede territo-ward were sanguine in their expectations_that ry, as well as jurisdiction, and there would be they should get the Government to the Potoa great impropriety in expending the federal mac; and were, therefore, for pressing the butreasure, in purchasing the soil, when they siness, and not allowing it to be postponed, as was contended for on the other hand. might have it without expense.

Mr. AMES endeavored to show that such a cession, as was contemplated in the constitution, might be made by one State to another, without giving a property to a foot of land. By comparing it with the cession of Silesia to Prussia, where not a single acre of soil was conveyed, but of jurisdiction to the whole province; so, when territory changes its government, by being the sacrifice of a treaty of peace. He supposed that Congress were to purchase the soil necessary to erect buildings for the accommodation of the Government, and was satisfied the cession might be made subsequent to their election of a particular spot.

Mr. JACKSON Opposed the purchase of soil at this time, because the existing demands on the public were of a primary nature, and ought not to be set aside for the attainment of an object which might be very well suspended for a considerable time.

Mr. STONE did not object to the purchase of the soil, because, with judicious management, the Government might dispose of it again at a profit; and not only indemnify the expense of the purchase, but raise enough to defray the price of erecting necessary buildings.

Mr. VINING said, it was not his intention that the State Government should take the property of individuals without compensation; but he could easily conceive, that it would be worth while for the State to purchase a tract of country, and give it to the General Government for their permanent residence. If it was to cost one hundred thousand dollars, and the State would receive an advantage equal to two hundred thousand dollars, from having the emporium of America in their neighborhood, he con ceived it would be a good bargain.

Mr. SENEY. The gentleman from Delaware has said, that Maryland proposed a cession of soil; but I believe, sir, there is not such a word as soil mentioned in the law.

|

Mr. MADISON said, the business was not brought on by their original motion, though they gave it their support. It was true, that a proposition for postponement was made, but what Till was the extent of that postponement? December or January next. Was there any reason to suppose that those gentlemen, who were, at this day, opposed to the Potomac, would give into such a change of opinion by that time, as to induce us to agree to their proposition. We saw no reason to expect such a change. And, as in fact we find a predetermined majority ready to dispose of us, the sooner we know our destiny the better; for it can be of little consequence, if we are to be disposed of, whether we are disposed of in September or December.

Mr. WADSWORTH.-The reiteration of being disposed of, by bargaining, induces me to rise and make one remark. It is a notorious fact, to the members within these walls, that the New England members, to a man, were opposed to a decision at present; and that they were disposed to accommodate the Southern States. They refused all bargaining, till they were assured there was a bargaining set on foot to carry them to the Potomac; why, then, are we reproached with this? Whatever bargaining there has been, we were the last to come into it; we never thought of it, till we were told that we were a property, and should be disposed of, unless we took care of ourselves. I hope, as we have gone so far, we shall settle the subject in dispute, by granting the money and erecting the necessary buildings.

Mr. JACKSON denied being concerned in any bargaining whatever, and defied any gentleman to say he knew any thing of one, till he heard it mentioned on this floor; he was determined to keep himself disengaged, and to vote according as his judgment should lead him, after hearing the subject coolly and thoroughly discussed.

Mr. CARROLL agreed with his colleague, and supposed that a cession of soil could not have Mr. MADISON hoped, if he travelled a little been contemplated, because the State of Mary-out of order, he should be justified, after what land had offered any part of the State, not ex- had taken place; but he could not withhold cepting the town of Baltimore. He believed this public declaration of his wish, that every if Congress were disposed to fix in that town, thing that had passed on the subject alluded to it would be agreeable to the State; but he did by the gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. not imagine they would agree to give the Gene- WADSWORTH,) were to be fully understood, ral Government a property to the whole town, and were reduced to writing. Every thing and the surrounding country. The other parts he knew of it he was willing, on his part, to of the State had never contemplated making put into that form; and he was well persuaded the inhabitants of Baltimore a compensation that it would be found, on examination, that for such an immense property. the opposition of the Southern gentlemen was

[SEPTEMBER 5, 1789.

Mr. SUMTER approved of the idea of his colleague, and would second his motion if he would go further; he wished the commissioners to go and explore the banks of the river, and report a choice of situations, by which means one would be bidding against another, and the Government, perhaps, might get the soil at a moderate price.

The question was put, on striking out the word "him" after report to," and insert Congress;" this passed in the negative, twenty-one for, and twenty-nine against it.

It was then agreed to fill the first blank with three. It was severally moved to fill the second blank with four, three, two, and one years; but all these being negatived, the blank was left to be filled in the House.

The third blank, respecting the sum to defray the expense, was filled with one hundred thousand dollars, to be paid in twenty years, af an interest of five per cent.

being under consideration in the House,

Mr. LEE conceived it to be his duty to present once more the preamble, which had been rejected in committee. He flattered himself, after the discussion which had taken place, that gentlemen were prepared to decide on liberal and national principles, and, therefore, they would adopt those he presented.

Mr. TUCKER wished, before the blanks in the resolution were filled up, that it might be amended, for in its present form he conceived it to be totally inadmissible. The objections already mentioned struck his mind with great force; but he had one further objection. We are proceeding, said he, by this resolution, to give a discretionary power to the President of the United States, and the commissioners he may appoint, which no body of men ought to exercise but ourselves with the other branch of the Legislature. We fix a line, on some The whole resolution was then agreed to, part of which the commissioners are authorized, twenty-nine to nineteen; after which the com by and with the advice and consent of the Pre-mittee rose, and reported the resolution; which sident, to purchase such quantity of land as they think proper. There is a power to fix the seat of Government on any part of a line five or six hundred miles in extent. Were we sent here to give such powers to any men? It is nothing less, in my mind, than betraying those rights of our fellow-citizens which we were sent here to guard. The place where the permanent seat of Government shall be fixed is Mr. CARROLL would not have undertaken to allowed, by every member, to be a matter of trouble the House with his sentiments again, great consequence to every part of the Union; but that the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. the warmth of the debates evinces it to be a AMES) insisted much upon the facts he found matter of the first importance, yet we are will-stated in Mr. Jefferson's Notes on Virginia. ing to get rid of it in any way, and throw it After he had undertaken to assure the Cominto such hands as our constituents never ex-mittee of the whole of the facts respecting the pected. I have no want of confidence in the judgment and discretion of the President, or those whom he may employ; but I never can agree that they shall exercise their judgment or discretion in a business to which the two branches of the Legislature alone are competent. We ought ourselves to fix the particular spot, and not leave it to any one, however eminent his station, to say where we shall assemble to legislate; there may be danger in the precedent. But are all the parts of this long river alike eligible? If they are not, it is an other reason why we should decide upon the spot. I would move, therefore, to alter the resolution, by making it the duty of the commissioners to report to Congress, and not to the President; by which means, at a future session, we shall be able to execute the whole plan according to our judgment.

After this was done, he would proceed and make the best bargain he could with a State for the soil. He did not know that his colleague was right in supposing that the constitution required a cession of territory, as well as jurisdiction; but he thought, if it could be obtained, it would be of great advantage to the Union, and he was willing to accept it.

navigation of the Potomac, which he could, as it were, observe from his own door, he expected, from that gentleman's candor, when he informed him that the falls were not extended the length of fifteen miles, and that the obstacles to the navigation were, in a great measure, removed, that he would not have dwelt upon them as arguments against going to the Potomac. He mentioned, that such progress was made in facilitating the navigation through the falls, that there was every probability an unimpeded passage would be allowed to the produce of the lands on its most remote and western branches; since which he had learned that a vessel, carrying twenty-four hogsheads of tobacco, equal to twelve tons' burthen, had come down that river to within thirteen miles of Georgetown, by which it was evident that the greatest obstructions were removed. From a knowledge of these facts, he hoped the gentleman's candor would induce him to give up the conclusions he drew from different information; and he trusted his justice would engage him to give a different vote from what he had given in the committee.

Mr. SENEY approved of the Susquehanna in preference to the Potomac, on every principle

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which had been brought into view, as proper itself under the greatest advantages of an easy to guide the House in deciding the present intercourse with that quarter? Add to the reaquestion. He treated the alarm which gentle-sons he had mentioned, that the United States men apprehended would be given by fixing on the Susquehanna as merely ideal, and existing no where but in the imagination of gentlemen; so far from exciting jealousy, or disturbing the public mind, he contemplated it as tending to allay uneasiness, and to give general satisfac-sitate to agree with him. tion.

On motion, the House now adjourned.

MONDAY, September 7.

PERMANENT SEAT OF GOVERNMENT.

The House resumed the consideration of the resolutions reported by the Committee of the whole for establishing the permanent residence of Congress.

Whereupon, the first resolution was agreed to, and the second, to wit:

Resolved, That the permanent seat of the Government of the United States ought to be at some convenient place on the east bank of the river Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania; and that, until the necessary buildings be erected for the purpose, the seat of Government ought to continue at the city of New York,

Being under consideration,

would consult their interest by fixing on the Delaware, as they would not incur the heavy expense of purchasing territory, and erecting magnificent palaces and hotels for the Government, and he thought gentlemen would not he

The place he meant to offer was possessed of eminent superiority, as to salubrity of air and fertility of soil; it also united the advantages of the Atlantic and inland navigation; inasmuch as, by cutting a canal from the waters of the Chesapeake to the Delaware, a communication would be opened from Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland, to New Jersey, Pennsylvania and the midland counties of New York. The spot that he proposed for their acceptance was Wilmington in the State of Delaware; round which they might have a district for exclusive legislation, if it was thought proper to accept it. Under these impressions, he would frame his motion in such a way, as to enable Congress, when they did adjourn, to adjourn to meet at that borough. It was made in this form: To strike out the word "permanent," and all the remainder of the clause, after the words, "ought to be at," and to insert, in lieu of the last, the borough of Wilmington, in the State of Delaware." On the question, that the House do agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays were

Mr. LEE withdrew his proposition offered yesterday, and moved to amend the said resolution, by striking out the words "East Bank of the River Susquehanna, in the State of Penn-demanded, and are sylvania," and inserting, in lieu thereof, the "North bank of the River Potomac, in the State of Maryland."

And, on the question that the House do agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays were demanded, and are

AYES.--Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Tucker and Vining--21.

66

AYES-Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Boudinot, Burke, Cadwalader, Coles, Contee, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Sinnickson, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, and Vining-19.

NAYS-Messrs. Ames, Benson, Brown, Carroll, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, P. Muhlenburg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Stone, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth and Wynkoop-32.

NAYS.-Messrs. Benson, Boudinot, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Mr. BOUDINOT remarked, that the peculiar Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorne, Lawrence, Liv- situation in which he had been placed, by havermore, P. Muhlenburg, Partridge, Van Rensse-ing the chair of the Committee, prevented him laer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop-29.

from giving his sentiments on the subject then; he therefore hoped to be indulged with stating the claim of the Delaware to the honor of the So it was determined in the negative. Federal City. When a question of such Mr. VINING said, it now became his duty, af- great magnitude, and which involved the interter having sacrificed a prejudice, if he had one, ests of the Union, was to be decided, he thought by giving his vote for the Potomac, to bring be- he could be neither doing justice to the United fore the House the humble claim of Delaware. States at large, nor his immediate constituents, He apprehended that her claim to centrality, as were he to neglect to call their attention to what it respected wealth and population, were supe the former Congress had done in favor of the rior to that of the Susquehanna; and that, if a Delaware. He was surprised that gentlemen, sea-coast line was to be a criterion, she was who contended for the accommodation of their near the centre of territory. He supposed that constituents, should be led so far astray from this was the line upon which the Committee was pursuing that object, as to pass far beyond the to decide for the present. It was not supposed centre of wealth and population, as well as ternecessary, at this time, to take into considera-ritory; or, if they did not pass the centre of tertion the vacant and extensive Western Terri-ritory, they went to a place, maugre all that tory, or why refuse the Potomac, which offered | had been said, devoid of those advantages which