a curse, by allowing great companies, when once lists, can do in subjecting to unjust and unequal formed, to consolidate and place the whole under charges. Last winter, when the river was closed one great monopoly, at the will and beck of one and there was no competition with the Hudman. I say, unless this amendment is adopted, if son River railroad by river, that road charged this consolidation that I apprehend is effected, ten dollars a ton for freight between Albany farewell to all hope of any more of these enter- and New York, a greater charge than is made for prises in the interior of the State. You may give freight carried the entire distance from New York up all hope of the Midland railroad from Oswego to Buffalo, and those along the route must submit to New York, if once a consolidation is formed to these exactions. And if you increase the between the Hudson River and Central railroads. power of the monopoly that makes them, you will You may give up all hope of your river road upon only subject yourself to greater demands and bethe western side of the river in such an event. It come more helpless. But, Mr. Chairman and genis out of the question. No man would hazard his tlemen of the committee, I have thus far spoken money in an enterprise like that, with such hope- of the evils that would grow out of a consolidaless opposition as it would promise to the great tion between the Hudson River and Central railmonopoly I deprecate. If you prevent this mo- roads alone. We must not forget that the Hudnopoly, there is then this chance of competition, son River and Harlem railroads are controlled and you encourage these other works. and moved by one man, and are now, even withMr. SCHELL-Will the gentleman allow me to out consolidation, directed by one will There is ask him a question? Does he not know that no competition between them, though they should there is a law on the statute book which requires be competing roads. But, sir, there is a danger connecting roads to make such arrangements as vastly greater than those I have alluded to which may be required to accommodate the business of stares us in the face, and we may as well look at each road, and if there should be a consolidation it squarely and act with reference to it. I allude between the New York Central and the Hudson to the probable consolidation of the Erie, the New River railroad franchises, and a road should be York Central, and the Harlem and Hudson River constructed on the west side of the river, that it railroad companies into one corporation. I know would have every accommodation for the transac-it has been said that this is not contemplated. I tion of its business with the New York Central road, as though there was no consolidation?

Mr. A. J. PARKER-Certainly; and is not that enough? What more do the public interests demand? That is fixed now, that secures continuity, it secures every possible advantage to the public and yet keeps these corporations separate, under separate directors, with separate organizations and separate interests. What more can be desired or demanded? I thank the gentleman for the suggestion. It is a strong against the position he takes here.

Mr. SCHELL-The gentleman will recollect that he just declared against consolidation because there would be no competition.

will show that it is contemplated, and I insist that when we meet to frame a Constitution to protect the people against exactions and against corrup tion, and to secure to them all their rights as far as possible, we should do it by looking fairly at the facts that surround us. A very different state of facts exists now from that which existed twenty years ago, and we should legislate with reference to existing circumstances. If there be at this moment a great, impending danger hangargumenting over us, and we see it and have no doubt of it, we should be false to the people we represent and false to the oaths we have taken if we fail to guard against it as far as we can in the Constitution we make. I charge here that Mr. A. J. PARKER- Consolidation is one there is a project now on foot to consolidate thing; running in connection is another. The the Central and the Erie railroads, as well as the gentleman has spoken of running these roads to- Hudson River and Harlem, and, if not arrested, gether for the mutual advantages they afford each time will show it, and many of you live to see it. other. That is right; that is proper. Their own If it is not prevented by the restrictions you put in interests demand it, and these interests accord this Constitution, it will be done, and that with the public wants. But consolidation is a quickly. And here I must make a correction, very different matter. Consolidation unites these which is due to myself and others upon this floor. companies as one corporation; consolidation It may as well be done here. I saw in the New strikes out from these companies all except one York Evening Express of Saturday a statement in board of directors, and if that board of directors these words, under the editorial head, after be in the hands of one rich man of sufficient mil-quoting the amendment I have proposed: lions to control the stock market, it becomes his "The meaning of this contest is between the means of adding many more millions to his Vanderbilt and Corning interests in the New York wealth. I should like to have my friends in the counties on the east bank of the river see how they will fare under a system of consolidation. I think my young friend from Columbia [Mr. Silvester] has made a sad mistake in the position he has taken this evening. The people of the counties Now, this comes from an editor who was along the east side of the river-Rensselaer, Dutch- heard on this floor-an able and eloquent man— ess, Columbia, Putnam and Westchester-have in opposition to the amendment I proposed, and had some reason to know what charges are I ought here to say that, supposing he knows, as made for way freight in going through: they have he speaks on that side of the question, that the had some reason to know and to feel what that Vanderbilt interest is engaged in trying to get monopoly, even to the extent to which it now ex-the control of the New York Central road, I shail

Central railroad. It is a purpose to prevent Van-
derbilt from getting control of the New York
Central, and constituting it with the Hudson
River railway one company from New York to
Buffalo."

them the control of the Erie, as they have already, thing be accomplished. We ought all of us of the Hudson River, the Harlem, and much of to be aware of the danger of the power the Central, and, I believe, of the Cleveland and where these vast sums are handled by a few. Toledo railroad. It is an invitation that perhaps Have we forgotten the transactions of the last may be accepted. Come, walk into my parlor," winter? I have not yet read the statutes passed say the directors of the Hudson River to the at the last session of the Legislature, for they are stockholders of the Erie, and perhaps they will not yet published, but I am told that an act was walk in and be caught in that web. Sir, if a man passed authorizing railroads where they held of thirty millions of wealth aspires to the consoli- another railraad under a lease, to buy it up and dation and control of all the great railroad inter- consolidate it; and although that bill, I underests of this country he can accomplish it unless stand, was introduced with reference to some restrained by constitutional prohibition. There northern road, where it would have been peris no Legislature in the world that can withstand fectly proper, and although originally that bill such power. Everybody knows that if this con- excluded the New York Central railroad from its solidation is accomplished it is ten millions more operation, yet when it got through the Senate instantly in the pocket of that great millionaire. and obtained the signature of the Governor, that He seeks to control railroads, not to build them; restriction had been stricken out. And what was and I do not know that he has expended the first the consequence? Why, with the suddenness hundred thousand dollars in building a railroad almost of lightning, before the public had any and developing resources and benefiting the premonition, it was announced that the directors country. No, no; it is Wall street he selects for of the Central railroad had purchased that branch his field of action. He buys and grasps, holds that runs from Schenectady to Athens. It was and consolidates, to wield the power that money held under a lease before at six per cent; they gives, and that I regret is so irresistible. Now became the owners at two millions, and five or it is undoubtedly, as a general rule, a great mis- six gentlemen-I believe that millionaire I have fortune to see such a great accumulation of spoken of was owner to the extent of half a wealth in one man. But if it be the result of million in it-received pay for that branch for a enterprise or skill, or even of successful specula- bad investment in two millions of New York tion in Wall street, the law does not interfere Central stock. If this consolidation be effected, with it. Great wealth may be a great blessing as in the case of Peabody, who uses his money to build houses to cover the poor, to instruct the ignorant and relieve the oppressed, and a great blessing it is acknowledged to be the world over, for which we should be devoutly thankful to God as well as grateful to man. And great wealth brings a blessing also, even with less philanthropy, when it builds up cities, constructs railways, developes resources, enters into and encourages and improves the industry of the land; then too we get blessings through it, though it be held by one man. But if these millions are concentrated in the hands of one man, with no such feeling and no such tendency-who seeks to gain millions more without giving any employment to human industry, who builds nothing, but who goes into Wall street to buy up and consolidate, and wield a power such as no monarch on earth wields, all this is against the interests of the country and against the interests of the city, and is an unmitigated curse. My friend from Rensselaer [Mr. Seymour], hardly ever in his life wrong, and whose integrity no man ever questioned, is wrong here in the course he takes; wrong in opposing this restriction as a great public measure, and wrong as regards the interests of his constituents. Let this consolidation be effected even between the Hudson River and Harlem railroads on the one hand, and the Central on the other, bound together as these roads are by this bridge, like the umbilical cord that binds together the Siamese Twins, making each inseparably necessary to the vitality of the other, does he suppose, after consolidation, that one ton of freight or anything else, would ever go through Troy so long as that bridge shall pay ten cents more for every passenger carried over it, and a large additional charge for freight? He may bid good-bye to any hope of improvement to his flourishing city if this

let me ask my friends from Greene [Mr. Mattice and Mr. More], who must feel some interest in that road, and all who live on the river, what more will ever be done in sending a ton of freight to Athens? There is no obligation to run cars to Athens, and consolidation will make it the interest of the company to run all the cars to Albany and thence by the Hudson River railroad to New York. You have now absorbed the Athens route in the Central railroad, and when that is consolidated with the Hudson River you may as well take up the rails that run to Athens. Why, this only shows how the public are never benefited by these Wall street operations. What care the stock gamblers of Wall street for the interests of the country through which a railroad runs? Your railroads should be held only for the purpose of the public good, developing the resources, and adding to the wealth of the country, as well as securing a fair return to the stockholders. It is indeed unfortunate that there are men in the land of such vast wealth that they can monopolize and control our railroads in Wall street. Railroads cease to be, to a great extent, under such circumstances a benefit to the public. In such hands they are not managed for the public good; they are only managed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. But I may be taking up too much of the time of the committee. I deemed it my duty to state some of these objections, and to lay them before the committee. I have no more interest in the question than any other citizen of the State who desires a good gov. ernment, and a restrictive Constitution, which will restrain the corruptions that have been prac ticed by these companies upon the Legislature. I am one of those who believe we can make a good Constitution, that will be approved by the people. I believe if I could have the aid on a subject like this of the gentleman from Westchester [Mr.

Greeley], and a few others, I could have secured the adoption of this amendment. I hope to do so without their aid. Depend upon it, however, unless you present a better Constitution than we have now, unless you do in some mode attempt to restrict or root out corruption from the Legislature, and unless the people can see it in the instrument you submit, they will scorn and reject it. I am one of those who believe that if you confine the Legislature to the passing of general laws, if you limit them in this matter of railroad consolidation, you will take away nine-tenths of the temptation that is laid in their way annually. Does not everybody know that the great sums of money that are spent in lobbying and corruption come from these great corporations? They have the wealth and the means; they don't mind paying a million, and for such an object as this they could afford to pay five millions, and even then they would pocket five millions of profit. I trust the committee will carefully consider this matter, and if they then reject it, 1 shall feel, at least, the satisfaction of knowing that I have done my duty, and others must take the consequences of their own votes.

the organic formations, so to speak, of the various bodies in the State that are hereafter to make and carry out our laws. I have listened with great satisfaction-as well I might, having lived, as man and boy, for more than forty years in the city of New York-to the true pictures which have been drawn of the commercial advantages of that city-far beyond any control of canals or railroads. Then, again, as has been said, a railroad leading to Boston, Portland or Philadelphia, or to any sea-board city, can be and is readily tapped at some convenient point, and as much of the freight passing over them as the commercial center needs under the irrepressible laws of trade, there finds its lodgment for distribution over the world. Still more, New York is one of the best situated places for manufactures in the country. Every gentleman who sails down the Hudson river, past the great iron manufactories, can contrast the present with the condition of things fifty years ago. Over a thousand steam engines have for years, within its walls and beneath its pavements, aided the energies of its million souls. New York has proved to be a point well adapted for the rudimental manufacture of iron ore-in Mr. S. TOWNSEND-I concur with the last the pig state-and the various other manufactures observation of the gentleman who has just taken connected with that leading article of our prohis seat [Mr. A. J. Parker], that one of our ob- ducts; and in her wharves, warehouses and other jects is to endeavor, as far as possible, to protect facilities for commerce, she cannot be overborne. I the people of the State against corruption in the believe, from the opportunities that I have had Legislature of the State of New York. But, sir, for the last half century to know something of it strikes me that in view of the discussion that the city of New York, that while she may be we have had drawn out here for a period of over affected injuriously by adverse legislation, and three days, in regard to the danger that we are perhaps partially benefited by favorable legislato expect at some remote period during the next tion, yet her destiny is beyond the powers of twenty years, of a great anaconda or boa constric- legislation. She will be, as my young friend from tor operation [laughter] in the shape of a railroad Columbia [Mr. Silvester] has said, in a few years, consolidation, that will wind itself around the people the great central distributing city of the worldof this State, the best thing we can do, if the ma- perhaps even for the produce of the East Indies. jority believe that the report of the committee is Therefore, I am opposed to spending so much not properly drawn, is to take up again the article time upon the question, when there is so which we have laid aside partially completed, in much more to do of far greater importance reference to the organization of the Legislature, to the people of the State-I allude especially to and see if we cannot secure, by the terms of that the three reports on finance lying unacted upon article, the certainty of having a class of legisla- in the Committee of the Whole-questions of deep tors who will rise superior to these railroad inter-interest to every individual. I listened with great ests of Wall street; who believe that character is interest to the reports, and I say again that I do far above money in every respect; who estimate not think the chairman of that committee [Mr. honor far above thousands of millions. I think Church], has over-estimated the contributions that the proposition to confine legislation to the which the people of New York are called lower branch, and to make the Senate a small re- upon to make to the general government as visory body and give them a large salary, elect- a moderate estimate of our proportion of the ing them for eight years, one in each judicial dis-one hundred and fifty millions of custom-house trict, demands serious consideration. I think you duties paid, the items of direct taxation, will elect by that means men who are irreproach-income, and other United States taxes, our able, and who will put a preliminary veto upon county, village and town taxes, together with any such proposition, as is supposed, before it goes our State tax of twelve or fifteen millions. beyond them. I believe we have made a large That gentleman estimates that within the advance in what we have already done in secur-coming year one hundred and eighty-two miling to the people of the State a better legislative lions of dollars will be drawn from the industry body than we have had heretofore. I think the and the capital of the State of New York; and proposition in favor of general laws would do a I fear that in many instances the exaction will be great deal of good, and that the statute books of solely upon the capital of its citizens, for at the the State, in that event, would not be so incum- present time, I do not think that the industry of bered with laws, few of which we are our people is reaping the reward that it merits in able to read before they are changed the protits of business. When questions of this again. We have been continually taking up matters of special legislation where we should generalize and should confine our legislation to

kind are brought before us, with a resolution on our table to adjourn on the 10th of September, these debates are frivolous and wrong. I do not

believe the people of the State will indorse them never was a director in any railroad company, nor by their votes when the question is taken. Let a party to any project for buying stock or selling us go on with our regular work. An attempt to stock, "short" or "long" and I have only the deal with a gigantic question like this-based up- interest of a citizen, living on one of our railroads, on a higher law than we can invoke-was made, traveling on a good many, and paying my fare on within my recollection, during the session of the every one of them. Now, I have a few facts Convention of 1846. It was strenuously advo- which I desire to present, bearing upon this quescated by a gentleman who appeared on this floor tion, and upon the interests of the citizen in this with the well-earned character of a statesman, question. I happen to live on the Harlem acquired in the Congress of the United States, railroad; that railroad does not extend to where for years he was chairman of finance and this city. I buy tiles in this city for my litwas also Chairman of the Committee on Corpora- tle farm, and have to transport them over tions in that Convention. He presented to the twenty-five miles of the Western railroad of Convention a proposition quite analogous to the Massachusetts, and then over the Harlem railone here. It was that the succeeding Legislature road, and I am charged $25 per car load for should designate the amount of circulation-not twenty-five miles of Western road, and then the mode in which it was to be used or secured-pay $30 for the same car load one hundred but the amount in millions of circulation that the miles over the Harlem road. If, in other words, State of New York should authorize the banks to I had to deal with one, rather than two railroads, I issue. After one evening's debate, with the should save fifteen or twenty dollars on every weight of his influence exercised on the floor, a car load of tiles. Of course, my little experience very large majority of the Convention adopted is a part of the general experience of the people this idea against the feeble protests of one or two of this State. I do not know that I ever favored gentlemen. It required, however, but a night to the consolidation of the New York Central: I sleep upon it, and the next morning the same have generally been in opposition to its managegentlemen who had strongly advocated the meas- ment; but I have no doubt that the people of this ure were each striving to get ahead of the other State have saved millions in freight and fare by in moving to reconsider it, and it was reconsid- that consolidation. We have much lower freight ered. That was considered by that distinguished and fare, I think, than we could have had in the gentleman more important than all the other prin- absence of consolidation. A large amount of busciples we adopted. It afterward took a form iness has been transacted in this State which different from what that gentleman, with all his would otherwise have been sent through other influence and with all his opportunities of judging States over competing lines. Now, then, I look the matter, desired. We know what the result to the interests of the producers of wealth, and I of the banking laws of 1846 have been in our say, as a general proprosition, which the expeState and in our Union, for it is virtually the law rience of most people will confirm, that every conof the Union, as well as of England. With these solidation brings with it cheaper fare, cheaper observations I leave the subject to others. I am ransit than we should have without it; and for a opposed, of course, to both amendments. [Laugh- very excellent reason. There are fewer boards of ter.] directors, fewer superintendents, fewer managers, and fewer ticket-sellers, and all such officers. Here is an economy created, whereby the people Mr. ALVORD As there is a question about of the State are benefited. I wish we had a the fact of there being a quorum here, I think railroad running from New York to Chicago unit is best not to press this to a vote, as a di- der one corporation. It would have to encounter vision would show that fact very soon. If any a dozen competitors, and who doubts that that corgentleman wishes to speak, I have no objec-poration would carry freight and passengers very tion.

The Chair announced the question on the amendment of Mr. Flagler.

---

DELEGATES-"No, no! Let's have a vote." Mr. GREELEY-I hope we will vote. I was going to say a word, but in that event I will not speak.

The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Flagler, and it was declared lost.

much cheaper than any combination of separate corporations? It would do so because it could afford to do so. I believe that, as a general thing, men consult their own interests in their business, and they carry cheaply because they can afford so to carry. Now, sir, I am openly and earnestly in favor of the further consolidation of the railroads

Mr. ARCHER-I offer the following amend-of this State. I hold no share in any one of ment, which the Secretary will please read: them, and I do not know that I have a friend in The SECRETARY read the amendment: the management of one of them; but simply as a Add to the amendment of Mr. A. J. Parker, the citizen who uses railroads and pays for so doing, following: "And no corporation shall be per-I wish that the line running from New York to mitted, either by purchase or otherwise, to absorb or control any other corporation of a competing character."

the Mississippi was not under the control of a dozen different corporations, so that I could put my trunk on one of them, and when I reached Mr. GREELEY-A few words only in reply to the end of my journey know where to find it. I some remarks of the gentleman from Albany wish the management was in fewer hands, so that [Mr. A. J. Parker], and I desire to be distinctly I could have a surer and readier redress in uuderstood to have no part nor lot in the case of any grievance. Now, then, I am controversy which he here agitates and opposed to all these propositions, every one of deprecates, concerning Wall street. I have no them. I am opposed to fettering our railroads stock in any railroad company. Ilby putting into the Constitution a restriction