Mr. GREELEY-I move the previous question. The question was put on the motion of Mr. Greeley to order the previous question, and it was declared carried. The question then recurred on section nine, as reported by the Committee of the Whole, and it was declared adopted. The PRESIDENT-The article, as adopted, will be referred to the Select Committee on Revision. Mr. BALLARD-I move that we now adjourn, The question was put on the motion of Mr. Ballard, and it was declared carried. So the Convention adjourned. FRIDAY, August 9, 1867. The Convention met at 10 o'clock A. M. Which was referred to the Committee on Cana's and ordered to be printed. Mr. ALVORD-I give notice that I will nove to reconsider the vote ordering the expunging from the Journal of the proceedings of this Convention. so much as relates to the question on the call of the Convention at the evening session of Monday. Which was laid on the table. Mr. MASTEN offered the following resolution: Resolved. That the sergeant-at-arms deposit in the box of each member in the post-office of this Convention four copies of all documents and reports printed by this Convention. Mr. MASTEN -The object of this resolution, Mr. President, is to furnish each of us with a few extra copies. It is necessary that we should have for our own individual use more than another copy besides the one that is placed upon our files. These reports require an examination, and each member should have a copy that he may take with him to his room and examine, and each member, Mr. STRONG-I understand I am recorded on it seems to me, should also he furnished with at the Journal of yesterday as having voted in favor least one or two additional copies, that he may of striking out the provision requiring members send them to the leading paper in his own district. of the Legislature to take an oath before they Mr. FOLGER - I rise to move that this resoreceive their pay, whether or not they had re-lution be referred to the Committee on Printing. ceived any money for bribery. I must have mis- Mr. SHERMAN I do not see any objection apprehended the nature of the motion before the to the adoption of this resolution, provided the Convention, as I was decidedly in favor of the number is made three instead of four. This does original proposition. I wish some memorandum not provide for printing any additional number; may be made of it, so that I will stand corrected it simply provides for a division of those on on the Journal of the Convention. hand equitably among the members. The PRESIDENT-The Journal will be corrected as requested. Mr. STRATTON presented the petition of eighty citizens of New York in relation to the traffic in wines and liquors. Which was referred to the Committee on Adulterated Liquors. Mr. STRATTON also presented six several petitions from the following societies: --- Mr. CONGER Why does the gentleman object to four copies? Four times 160 only makes 640. Mr. SHERMAN - Simply because it will not leave a sufficient number to put on the files and to bind, as provided for by the rule. Mr. FOLGER-My reason for moving the reference of this resolution to the Committee on Printing was that the number of four could not Herman Society, eighty-five members: Arion be supplied out of 800, which is the usual Society, four hundred and twenty members; Eu-number, after making the division provided for phonia Society, ninety-five members; New York by law. Perhaps the Committee on Priuting, Carvers' Association, three hundred and ten however, will devise some plan. members; Washington Rifles, sixty members; New York Merchants, one hundred and twentytwo members, on the same subject. Which took the same reference. Mr. MASTEN-I will accept the amendment of the gentleman from Oneida [Mr. Sherman]. Mr. FOLGER-I wish to inquire of the gentleman from Oneida [Mr. Sherman] whether we Mr. DALY presented the petition of John M. can have three copies. As I understand it, eight Stearns on the same subject. Waich took the same reference. Mr. COCHRAN presented the petition of F. J. Sheffield and seventeen others, citizens of the State, asking for a constitutional provision prohibiting the sale of intoxicating liquors. Which was referred to the Committee on Adulterated Liquors. Mr. CONGER presented the petition of Martin Luther Bergen and ten others, citizens of Fishkill, on the same subject. Which took the same reference. hundred is the usual number. Three hundred and twenty-one must be bound, which leaves but four hundred and seventy-nine. There are exhausted, by putting on the files of members, officers and reporters, about two hundred; that leaves but two hundred and seventy nine. Now, I do not see how you can get three times one hundred and sixty out of that, or even twice one hundred and sixty. The question was put on the motion of Mr. Folger, and it was declared carried. Mr. RUMSEYI move to reconsider the vote Mr. FOLGER presented the petition of A. B. by which the biennial election of members of the Lawrence and others ou the same subject. Which took the same reference. The PRESIDENT presonted a communication from the State Engineer and Surveyor, in answer to a resolution of the Convention. Legislature was rejected last night, and ask that this motion do lie on the table. The PRESIDENT- There being no objection, that inotion will be entertained. and the motion to reconsider will lie on the table. Mr. ANDREWS-I desire to ask leave of absence for Mr. Rathbun, until Tuesday morning. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. GREELEY offered the following resolution: The SECRETARY proceeded to read the resolution: Resolved, That the roll of the Convention be called each day, directly after the reading of the Journal and every member who shall appear to be absent without leave, shall thereupon be fined six dollars, to be deducted by the Comptroller in paying his compensation. Mr. SPENCER-I offer the following amendment as a substitute: Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed to examine and report whether the Convention have the power by any general rule or resolution, to impose a forfeiture of pay or other penalty as a punishment for non-attendance on the duties of the Convention by any member thereof. Mr. GREELEY-I must protest against the terms of this substitute. We do not propose to impose anything on members. We simply say that if they neglect their duties they shall not by certificate of the officer of this Convention, be paid for services they do not render. I will assume that no member of this Convention desires to be so paid. I do not believe gentlemen whom I have seen going off to the Springs desire to be paid for the time which they feel required to give to their private business or their private pleasure. I simply desire that the account of this Convention shall be honestly made up. I desire to be absent-I must be absent some, and I do not desire to be paid, nor do I believe I ought to be paid for the time I devote to private business. I wish to be so absent without breaking up a quorum, and I believe my resolution, if passed, will give us a quorum. I think the substitute of the gentleman from Steuben [Mr. Spencer] as sumes facts that are not facts. Mr. ALVORD-I am of the opinion that the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley] is wrong in his assumption that we can, by any order given by this Convention, instruct the Comptroller to withhold any payment from any member of the Convention. I desire to offer the following amendment to this proposition, which seems to me is all that ought to be asked, and with which we should be content. The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amendment, as follows: Amend by striking out all after the word "Journal," and inserting in lieu there of the following: "and that the names of the absentees be spread upon the Journal, and when absent with leave the Journal shall so state." Mr. CONGER-I should have no objection to the proposition made by the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord] with the further provision, which is undisputably just and necessary. That any member appearing in the Convention after his name has been called may have his name entered as being present. The operation of the rule proposed by the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord] would make a man, by the minutes of the Convention, absent when he came to his seat one-half second after the roll was called there would be a final entrance on the minutes, although he might be present and participate in all the important action of the Convention during the day, that he was absent throughout the whole day. There is no such practice as this adopted by any parliamentary body upon a call of the roll, to ascertain whether members are diligently in their attendance, but they have permission to have their names entered as being present if absent at the call of the roll; that privilege is always accorded to them. It is a matter of courtesy as well as right, and the attempt to shut a man out from that right seems to me to be almost equal to the school-boy days of my honorable friend from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord]. Mr. BOWEN-I simply wish to inquire whether the gentleman proposing those resolu tions intend to exclude any other fine, penalty, or other punishment? If it does, I fear it will be the cause of members vacating their seats here, and it appears to me that would be the effect of the resolution. Mr. GREELEY - The resolution is perfectly plain. It does not contemplate any more than stated therein, and it has nothing to do with the right of the Convention, by other means to require members to be present. It simply contemplates little honesty on the part of the members of this Convention, and I trust it does not contemplate too much. Mr. SPENCER- The proposition of the gentlemau from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord] was a day or two since voted down upon the suggestion that it was the province of any member of the Convention to move for a call of the roll at any time. Mr. SCHOONMAKER-I move to lay the subject on the table. The question was put on the motion of Mr. Schoonmaker, and it was declared carried. Mr. SEAVER offered the following resolution: Resolved, That all propositions for the alteration of the standing rules or the addition of new rules, pending or hereafter to be offered, be referred to the standing Committee on Rules for their consideration before final action by the Convention, and that the committee be directed to properly incorporate in its place the provisions of the amendment to the twenty-ninth rule. relating to the previous question, adopted yesterday. The question was put on the resolution of Mr. Seaver, and it was declared adopted. Mr. VAN CAMPEN-I desire to ask leave of absence for next week and until Monday evening after. The Indians of my county and adjoining thereto desire to have a council next week, and are anxious to have me present two days at that council. It will therefore require my absence all next week, and as I cannot get here without starting on Friday I desire to be excused until Monday night, August 19. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. KERNAN-I ask leave of absence during Monday evening next. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. L. W. RUSSELL-I ask leave of absence for Monday evening and Tuesday next. There being no objection, leave was granted. Ballard, of Cortland, until Tuesday morning. He was called away last evening by a telegram after the session was closed. There being no objection leave was granted. Mr. GROSSI ask leave of absence for next week, on account of ill health. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. STRATTONI ask leave of absence for Mr. Rogers until Wednesday next, on account of illness in his family. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. PRINDLE-I ask leave of absence for next week. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. HAMMOND - I ask leave of absence for next week, on account of illness in my family. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. LARREMORE-I ask leave of absence for Monday evening. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. FLAGLER-I ask leave of absence for Monday evening and Tuesday next. There being no obiection, leave was granted. Mr. SEAVER-I do not know that I really shall want it, but fearing that I might, I ask leave of absence until Wednesday next. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. MASTEN-I ask leave of absence for Monday evening. I have a special term of court to hold. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. BOWEN-I ask leave of absence until Tuesday morning. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. BERGEN-I ask leave of absence until Tuesday morning. years; a Lieutenant-Governor shall be chosen at the same time and for the same term. Mr. C. L. ALLEN-AS I had the honor of submitting this report, perhaps it is incumbent upon me to state to the Convention, concisely as I can, some of the reasons which operated on the committee in making the report it did. I am happy to be able to state that the committee, after mature deliberation, were unanimous in the conclusion to which they arrived, as stated in the report of the committee. It is as follows: They prefer to use language, as far as prac ticable, which has been settled and approved by long and well-established usage and judicial construction, rather than to adopt a new and unsettled phraseology which would not be so well calculated to secure the continued existence of provisions which they have unanimously approved.” In the first place, as to the term of office of the Governor. We did not believe that any change was demanded by the people in that particular. Suggestions were made to the committee to consider the propriety of shortening the term of that officer to one year. The committee were not of that opinion. By the Constitution of 1777 the term of office of the Governor was fixed at three years. This continued, of course, down to 1821; when, after a spirited and learned debate in the Convention of that year, in which such men as James Hunt, Ambrose Spencer, Martin Van Buren, Abraham Van Ruyter. Erastus Root, Samuel Young, Elisha Williams, Peter W. Livingston, and a host of other worthies of that day, participated, it was altered and fixed at two years. Many of the delegates were in favor of the shorter period of one year, and among them was the celebrated Erastus Root, who, for a long There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. HITCHMAN-I ask leave of absence un-period of time, was a distinguished light among til Tuesday morning. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. T. W. DWIGHT—I ask leave of absence until Tues lay morning. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. FARNUM-I ask leave of absence until Tuesday next. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. ALVORD - Would it be in order for me to inquire whether we will have a quorum present on Monday evening, after granting the leaves of absence? The PRESIDENT-The Secretary informs the Chair that only twenty-three or twenty-four have been granted so far. Mr. SCHELL-I ask leave of absence until Wednesday morning. I have an engagement in New York. There being no objection, leave was granted. Mr. VAN COTT-I ask leave of absence for Tuesday and the morning session of Wednesday. the able politicians of his day, and to his aid came Peter W. Livingston. On the ore hand it was urged that the Governor should be more immediately under the control of the people, in order that they might be insured against the improper execution of the trust committed to him; and that if he executed the duties promptly and with ability, he would be re-elected. That if a bad man succeeded him, he would be fastened on the community for a long period, and could not well be got rid of; but if he was settled with oftener and made accountable to the people annually, he would be more likely to discharge his duties with fidelity. The check was in the virtue and morality of the people. "A corrupt people would not choose a virtuous Governor; nor a moral people a vicious one." On the other hand it was urged by such men as Mr. Van Buren and his associates, that a one year term would cause too frequent excitement and agitation in the community; that in a territory so widely extended as New York, biennial elections would excite sufficient agi There being no objection, leave was granted. tation without too many additions to rouse The Convention resolved itself into Committee of the Whole on the report of the Committee on the Governor and Lieutenant-Governor, etc., Mr. KERNAN, of Oneida, in the chair. The SECRETARY proceeded to read the first section, as follows: SECTION 1. The executive power shall be vested in a Governor, who shall hold his office for two the feeling which would unavoidably prevail; that one year would not enable a Governor to carry out any plans of great public benefit; that no man of ability would willingiy put himself in a position which would be liabie to be so shortly disposed of. It was said, that it was necessary that the Governor's power should exist long enough to survive that temporary excitement which a measure of great public | Because you deem experience to be of the greatest importance must occasion, and also to enable the importance. In short, every reason points to an people to detect the fallacy under which the acts increase, instead of a lessening of the term. of the government might be veiled, as to their Were it not for the belief that a change is not real motives. It was asked, "Can a fair judg-demanded, and is perhaps not expected. the comment of the motives, or of the effect of measures, mittee would have deemed it advisable to have be made in a few months or a year?" Surely extended the term to three or four years, as most not, and a term of three years would even be conducive to the best interests and welfare of the sometimes necessary, to enable the people fairly State. As to the Lieutenant-Governor, it was to judge of the effect of many measures. But it suggested to us by a few members of the Couwas argued that extremes must not be resorted vention. to consider the propriety of abolishing to, and jealousies would be aroused on the part that office, aud devolving its duties upon the of the people, by weakening the responsi- President of the Senate. A few of the States bility to them of their public officers. have such a provision in their Constitution, but These and various other reasons, not neces- they are mostly of the smaller States in point of sary to detail, operated upon the minds of territory and population. In most of the States the framers of the Constitution of 1821, and they that officer is retained. With us it was thought adopted the term of two years. This was again advisable not to make an alteration in that parconfirmed by the action of the Convention of 1846, ticular. The Governor is elected by the whole and has thus continued to the present time. After people, and represents and takes care of the interdue reflection, the committee have concluded notsts of the whole State; so should the Lieutenantto rec mniend an extension of the term in the Governor, who, in case of the resignation or death proposed new Constitution. If they had deemed of the Governor, is to fill his place and discharge it advisable they certainly would have recom- his duties. The President of the Senate is a Senmended an increase, instead of a decrease, in the ator elected by a district, and represents the imterm of office. Our State has vastly increased in mediate interests of his own constituency, who point of consequence, wealth and resources since would be deprived of their representative for the the days of the Constitutions referred to. With time being, when he acted as Lieutenant-Gova population of 4,000,000. and rapidly increasing. ernor. In such capacity he would not be a State its wants and interests need the most careful ex-officer elected by the whole people, and not a ercise and vigilance of executive power and in- proper representative of their interests. It is fluence. The single clause that the Governor true, in case of the occurrence of the unusual and must t. ke care that the laws are faithfully exe-improbable contingency of a vacancy occasioned cuted, is of itself of the utmost importance. In by the death or disability of both Governor and order to discharge this duty correctly, the incum- Lieutenant-Governor, he would then act as Govbent must be well acquainted with the laws of ernor; but this would only arise under the absothe State and the various and almost innumerable Inte necessity of such a peculiar case, which has statutes bearing upon his duties. He is to com. never yet, I believe, occurred. So much for the municate to the Legislature at every session the first section. The second section, which is also condition of the State, and recommend such mea- copied from the Constitution of 1846, I pass ove: sures as he shall deem expedient. In the report as needing no comment. It has, I believe, of the committee they say: "He shall communi-met with universal approbation, and needs cate by message to the Legislature at every ses no observation. So likewise with the third sion the condition of the State, and recommend section; it needs no comment or explanation. such measures to them as he shall judge expe- The fourth section is like the present Constitution, dient. He shall transact all necessary business with but few amendments, and I will ask the with the officers of Government, civil and mili-attention of the committee for a short time tary. He shall expedite all such measures as may to it. We recommend that the compensation of be resolved upon by the Legislature, and shall the Governor be first fixed by the Legislature at take care that the laws are faithfully executed." its first session after the adoption of the proposed He is to correspond with the general government Constitution. The reasons for this provision, I and the government of the several States. He believe, are sufficiently stated in the brief preface must be well acquainted with our criminal code. which the committee have appended to their His duties, in short, are numerous and compli-report. They have said there as follows: "While cated, requiring the utmost sagacity, care and your committee are fully of the opinion that the vigilance. Men competent for this station are not present compensation is far less than the Chief to be found in every place, and when selected Magistrate of the Empire State should be entitled they would not be likely to accept the office if to receive, they believe it not wise or expedient limited to a single year, and hardly for two years, to name or determine its amount in the Constituand the office might be brought into disrepute iftion, but have proposed that it be first fixed by the the term was too short. Again, time for the Legislature at its first session after the adoption calming down of excitement and prejudice would of this Constitution, in order that it may not be afford the people an opportunity of judging dis- subject to the caprices and temptations of legisla passionately. Experience, too, is of the greatest tive enactment after the election of the successful importance in discharging with ability and success candidate or during his continuance in office." No the duties of the office. You elect your Senators one will be likely under these circumstances to for two years, and by the motion adopted yester-seek the office iu reference to the salary, nor can day for four years. You elect your judges for a lany individual be corruptly or designedly apperiod of eight years and four years, and why?'proached by reason of its proposed increase, in . justice to that subject. The sixth section, which is the fifth in our report, relates to impeachment, and describes the powers and duties of the Governor and Lieutenant-Governor. We come now to the section fixing the compensation of the Lieutenant - Governor. This we have recommended should be determined in the same manuer as that of the Governor, and we have added the clause, that he shall be entitled to receive no the present law he receives as Lieutenant-Governor six dollars per day and mileage, while acting in that capacity. He is, however, by virtue of his office, 1. A commissioner of the canal fund. 2. A member of the canal board. 3. A commissioner of the land office, and custodian of the old State hall. 4. Trustee of the State capitol. 5. Trustee of the new State hall. order to obtain the sanction of the Executive in doubtedly favor us with a report doing ample favor of any improper or odious measures, for a reward to be given by an increased salary. The committee did not deem it expedient to name or determine the amount of the salary in this section, as the currency, particularly at the present period, is so constantly and greatly fluctuating. It would, in many respects, have been unwise to do so. We were finally of opinion that it was most advisable to leave the sum to the wisdom and discretion of the Legisla-other or further fees or compensation. Under ture. We have ventured the remark, however, that the present compensation is far less than the Chief Magistrate of the Empire State should be entitled to receive, in the hope and belief that it would carry with it the weight of the Convention and perhaps exert a favorable influence on the future deliberations of that body on this important subject. It is well known, indeed universally conceded, that the present salary does not approach to a payment of the expenses of the Executive. It is not honorable to the great For all the services which he performs in these State of New York, nor, it is believed, gratifying several departments, it has been deemed that he to the pride of her people, that her Governor shall is entitled to receive a per diem allowance and be obliged to defray, in a great measure, his own traveling fees, and it has been the practice for him expenses. No one but a wealthy citizen can to charge and receive these several allowances. afford to assume the high and responsible duties Under these circumstances, it has been one of the of her chief magistracy; and it is not commenda- best paying offices in the State, and has amounted ble to our public reputation or standing that this to a sum far exceeding the compensation of the current and standing reproach should be con- Governor, without incurring the great expenses tinued and constantly thrown upon us-that we necessarily charged upon that officer. In the do not support our Governor. In the war case of one incumbent of that office, the records of 1812, while our State was under the di- show that he received a compensation not far rection of Daniel D. Tompkins as Governor, short, if not exceeding $10,000, in a single year, it is well known that he expended a fortune and yet it was deemed advisable to pay the in defraying the expenses of his office. I recur to charges, inasmuch as he was constructively ena more recent instance, of the late lamented titled to them. This, it is believed, was never the Silas Wright; who was obliged to trench upon intention of the Legislature, and yet as the per his own purse not very well filled, unfor- diem as Lieutenant-Governor was only placed at tunately for him and his family-in supporting six dollars per day, it was perhaps thought that that dignity of station and respectability of office he would receive something in addition to that which I believe he ever sustained. I am proud, sum, as payment for the discharge of his duties in as a citizen of this State, to recur to the manner other relations to the government. This should in which the dignity of that office was sustained not be a fair, full and ample compensation by him. We should make all due haste to remedy should be fixed by law, beyond which he should the evil and right the wrong. Our population is not be remunerated, nor should he be left to the more than the whole number of the United States calculation of constructive mileage and per diem at the organization of the general government. allowance, in so many different phases. It is The President at the time was entitled to $25,000. hoped that the Convention, and the people There are many presidents of corporatious, where through it, will correct the evil. I have now their duties are small and not at all as onerous as reached the last section of the article which we the duties of the Executive of our State, and in- propose, and that in many respects is perhaps the stances are not rare where they receive salaries most important one of any that we have proposed of ten and fifteen thousand dollars a year. to amend. It is that in relation to the veto while our own Executive, burdened with services power. It may have been supposed that this the great duty of sustaining himself as Gov-branch belonged to another committee, who are ernor of the great State of New York, is to define specifically the powers and duties of left with a pittance which is almost nameless. the Legislature. We, however, concluded that it But enough on this subject. I have put forth was a part of the duty assigned to us, and we these remarks, not, perhaps, as exactly applica- were strengthened moreover in that conviction ble, except so far as to express the sense of the when we were presented with two different resoConvention, and to express their belief that the lutions on this subject, referred to our committee Legislature will take ample care of a matter so for consideration, and on which we were inimportant. The fifth section of the present Constructed to report. As we remark in our report, stitution relates to the pardoning power, which this amendment your committee believe that has been referred to another committee, and. they cannot recommend too strongly to the favor though somewhat connected with the matters re- of the Convention. It is unnecessary to enter ferred to us, we have not thought it advisable to into details of the reasons for its expediency of treat of it in our report. That committee will un-propriety. They will readily commend them |