are but one legislative body. We are all ready | very

of

important object sought to be to admit that our legislation and laws in many attained by granting such powers. While respects bear a close analogy to the British gov-measures whose real merits would recom. ernment. The State of New York has recipro- mend them, would be brought before cated in giving that government most valuable the board of supervisors every scheme hints in matters relating to the subject of trust doubtful honesty, every local project which could estates, and in reference to the security for circula- not secure a majority of the board would, as it tion in her banking law of 1844-45, in close now is, be brought before the Legislature. I analogy with our legislation of '38 to '42 whilst represent a county which furnishes, perhaps, as perfecting in effect our own law, now that striking an illustration of the effects of local of the United States. The great features of our legislation at Albany as any county in the State. common law, are derived from theirs. We have It is but little more than thirteen years since we our statutory system to a greater degree than were organized. Our county seat was originally they have, of course. The British Parliament fixed by a commission appointed by the Legislaconsists of two bodies, theoretically, but practi- ture. From the location so selected it was, after cally of only one. We see this illustrated in the buildings were partly erected, removed by the discussions in that body. A bill is started in the board of supervisors, by a two-thirds vote, passed House of Commons, goes to the House of Lords, for two consecutive years. From this location it and comes back to the House of Commons. was, in less than two years, removed by the LegWhat do the House of Commons do? Hardly islature by a law confirming the location originally pay any attention to the suggestions that may made by their commissioners. It was again rebe made in the other House. It is in the Com- moved by the supervisors by a two-thirds vote, mons that the legislation is inaugurated. In passed for two consecutive years. And about France, and I believe in Prussia, and in many two years after the Legislature again confirmed European countries, we know the legislation of their original location, and made it, as it was supone body with a revisory veto power is com- posed, permanent by the division of a town, so as mon. Then again, in the great case of the reform to prevent any subsequent removal by a two-thirds bill forty years ago. What was it but the legis- vote. Under this state of affairs we rested in peace lation of one body? The House of Peers resisted for six years, and at the last general election to the death almost. We remember the speech nothing was heard in any quarter of any present of the Duke of York, and how it was overcome design to disturb this arrangement; but before by the significant threat of an enlargement of the close of the session of the last Legislature a the peers. Then again, there is a great deal said law was passed conditionally removing our county here about one body passing laws of these seat. This law was passed in accordance with a minor bodies passing laws. I will state to gen-resolution hastily passed by a board of supertlemen that in the corporation of the city of New visors, the action of at least one of whose memYork there were at one time declared to be bers was, even before the final passage of the twelve thousand ordinances extant. What are law, repudiated by the town which he repreordinances but laws, more or less modified? It is understood that although we delegate these powers to the boards of supervisors we should yet reserve proper supremacy for the Legislature, which I hope hereafter will be a different body from what we have recently had.

Mr. ALVORD-It seems to me that the amendment can be construed in a double sense. That is, as it reads it gives the Legislature the power not only to repeal general laws but also to repeal any of the special laws which, under powers granted to the board of supervisors, they have passed. I, therefore, suggest to the gentleman that he insert before the word "laws" the word "general," as I understand him to take away from the Legislature the right to repeal the general laws of the board of supervisors.

sented, and also, as it was claimed upon the petition of a majority of the voters of the county, and among them of the voters of my own town, which has always, and does now sustain with great unanimity the location which it was proposed to abandon. Whether upon a full and fair statement of all the questions involved, a majority of the voters would have petitioned for such a law as was passed, I am unable to say, but the law as passed does not, in many respects, fulfill the representations, under which, in many cases, signatures were obtained to the petitions for removal. Under the evil effects of this concurrent jurisdiction, we have built two sets of county buildings at the public expense, and have expended from private sources large amounts to promote or defeat legislation at Albany, and it is even now a matMr. RUMSEY-I am inclined to accept that ter of dispute in the county where our county amendment. seat is legally located. Were it an entirely new Mr. A. LAWRENCE-As one of the Commit-proposition to confer legislative powers on boards tee on Town and County Officers, I concurred in of supervisors the case would be somewhat differall the recommendations of that committee;ent from what it now is, but for nearly e ghteen though to what exact extent we may safely go in years they have, concurrent with the Legislature, conferring legislative powers on boards of super-exercised very considerable legislative powers, visors, I am not prepared to say in the presence and with such general satisfaction as to create the of the large number of learned professional gen-belief that it would be wise to trust them with tlemen, who are members of this body. But what- more. If there is one purpose for which, more ever legislative powers are conferred upon boards of supervisors, it seems to me important, should be exclusive, and that if the State Legislature retains concurrent jurisdiction, it would defeat a

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than any other, the people of the State united in calling this Convention, if we except the desired reform of the judiciary, that purpose was to provide constitutional means for purifying legislation,

by taking from the Legislature, so far as it can be, I look with great alarm upon the suggestion that done, the power of special and local legislation as by constitutional, and, so unchangeable provisto such matters as have heretofore given rise to ions, the unity of legislative power shall be disthe suspicion of venality and corruption among persed through the counties of this State. The some of the members of that body. And the Constitution framed in 1846 went to the extreme, same sentiment which has called for this change as it seems to me, of decentralization that is pos has pointed to the boards of supervisors as the sible with the existence of a government at all. proper depositories of this power. So far as the But the unity of the Legislature was left uncountry portions of the State are concerned, this touched. And now this Convention was called sentiment seems to me to be based on sound com- under a movement of the popular mind, which has mon sense. The supervisor, more than many perceived the evils of this dispersion of the power other officers, is selected with reference to his of the government, of this division of power and peculiar qualifications for the duties of that office. responsibility, to correct those evils. But we His official acts are performed under the eyes of are met here by a constitutional arrangement his constituents, and he can rarely shield himself that is to permit independent and diverse local from blame, as may generally be done by mem- legislation in all the counties of this State. bers of the Legislature, by throwing the blame Who is sagacious enough to foresee, who is on others. The result of this immediate respoa- wise enough to point out, here and now, for sibility has been that, as a body, the boards of the guidance of the courts or the instrucsupervisors throughout the State have retained tion of the community, what are the limits of leg. the public confidence and created a desire that islation sought to be attributed to these local further powers should be conferred upon them, boards? I can see nothing before the people while there has been a marked decrease in the of this State but a new plunge into the sea of liti. confidence felt in the Legislature and a corres- gation in which they have been so constantly inponding desire to diminish, as far as possible, volved during the last twenty years. I know their powers for evil. The division, also, among nothing that can throw all the interests and fornearly sixty different bodies of the great bulk of tunes of the people into the hands of the courts that special and local legislation which, concen- and of the lawyers more completely than this trated in one place, serves to engender corruption, simple, and, as I must think, careless suggestion will of itself, to a great extent, destroy the temp- that local legislation shall be taken from the central tation to venality which is now so powerful. I legislative power and given to local bodies. Now, had intended to have made some remarks in re- is there any answer to the proposition that, leavlation to other matters connected with this ques-ing unchanged and entire legislative authority, tion, but, under the rule limiting debate to ten the Legislature itself, from time to time, should minutes, I will be unable to say all I desire to apportion out to local administration such topics say, and for that reason will not further occupy as may be better managed in the localities, and the time of the committee. from which the Legislature may be wisely saved? Mr. GREELEY-I wish the committee to No answer but this that the Legislature cannot understand that this proposition of the gentleman be trusted. That while you frame a Constitution from Steuben [Mr. Rumsey] abolishes the whole that satisfies you as to the source of legislative matter. It wipes out, in my judgment, every authority in the suffrage, yet the Legisla. prospect of reform. If you pass that, consider ture produced by that suffrage cannot be that you remit it all back to the Legislature and trusted with what belongs to legislative power. give them power to give us a little as an experi- Your remedy for the evils under which the comment, and take it back the next year; so in effect munity suffers is to strip the Legislature of pow we shall have nothing done, and no hope of any- er. Why, we can easily get rid of the evils and thing, if this amendment passes. I shall stand by dangers of government if you can get rid of the the committee, whose proposition seems to me duties and labors of government. But to what much the best to pass, though not perhaps the end is it, to constitute a formal legislative body greatest improvement, of anything we have. But which is satisfactory in its origin and organiza as between this amendment and that with which it tion to you, and then condemn it as unworthy of is proposed to supersede it, I prefer this, which at legislative trust, by dispersing to the control of least gives us some hope of a reform, by localizing local boards these uncomputed, undefined interests this action, which I will not call legislation, but which are described as local. You will have, so which is a mode of administering local interests. to speak, border wars between the counties, if you It would give us hope of some improvement. But leave this local legislation, uncontrolled by the if we adopt the amendment of the gentleman from central Legislature, to the rivalry and competitions Steuben [Mr. Rumsey], we may say "farewell" of county boards. If your Constitution strips the to any hope of reform in the Legislature or reform anywhere.

Legislature of this controlling power, be assured that the people will understand, if we do not, this irreclaimable dispersion of legislative authority throughout the counties of the State, and will condemn this Constitution as theoretical and

Mr. EVARTS-I take it, the question before the Convention presents itself thus: Is it expedient to frame in the Constitution a system of legislative powers for the boards of supervisors? visionary. Or is it better, while recognizing the fact that | Mr. OPDYKE-I cannot sharo in any degree many matters of administration might properly the aların felt by my colleague of the city of New be accorded to those local boards, leave entirely York [Mr. Evarts], in permitting the people of the absolute legislative_authority, imparted by the different counties of this State to take charge this Constitution, in the Legislature of the State. of their own local interests. It seems to me that

this is the proper and safe depository for that au- statute bocks are filled with just such enactments thority. But, sir, I am alarmed by the action of as these, whereas, as it has been said very propthe central legislative power in regard to these erly, if such matters were left to localities they local interests. We have all seen the evil of it would understand what the people of these immethe evil of permitting one class of men to legislate diate localities want. Sir, another experience. for others in regard to matters in which they have The gentleman from New York [Mr. Evarts] will no personal interest. It has been regarded by understand it, and the gentleman from Ontario those who have made the science of government [Mr. Folger] will understand it. The board of a study that the greatest perfection of our system supervisors of the city of New York make up of government is the fact that we leave local mat-their tax lists. It covers several millions of dolters to be governed by local authorities. New lars, or ten or twelve millions is divided England, which I think we must all admit is not between the board of aldermen and councilbehind the foremost in the art of government in men and the board of supervisors. They ask this country, leaves such matters exclusively to appropriations for various objects named in the their local authorities. The people of this State tax levy. But at once comes from the city of New have made their will known as palpably as it is York twenty different parties, asking that the tax possible to make it known, that they desire that levy be amended. The Legislature will add probathis transfer of power should be made. I feel that bly ten or twelve hundred thousand dollars to this Convention will fail in one of its highest duties the amount passed after the board of supervisors if it fails to conform with that wish. and board of aldermen have finished their work. Mr. E. BROOKS-I wish to put a single ques. The gentleman from Ontario [Mr. Folger] spoke tion to the gentleman from New York [Mr. about the evils of single bodies of legislation. Evarts]. The question is, what has been the Why, with a single exception and that the city of experience of the city of New York for the last New York, all the cities in this great commontwenty years in reference to our State legislation? wealth are governed by boards of aldermen alone What is the experience of every gentleman ac--that is, by single bodies in all large cities save quainted at all with the several localities of the one. This one body control and regulate the enState, and what has been done in Albany in regard to theso localities? Have they not, year after year, gone from bad to worse. If there has been evil legislation on the part of the boards of supervisors, has not such legislation been preeminently the rule here? Sir, that is the solution of the whole question in my mind. I appeal to the experience of every gentleman on this floor, who has observed the legislation of the State, as to what has been its effect upon the morals of the people and upon the corporations of the State. Mr. FOLGER-Does the gentleman from Rich-in which I reside is a small village located at the mond [Mr. E. Brooks] state any law which he has in his mind which has a mischievous tendency, which could have been passed by a board of supervisors?

tire legislation of the locality. So there is no evil in that experience, but upon the whole it has been found to be better in its results than general legislation by the State for all local purposes.

Mr. EDDY-The gentleman from Ontario [Mr. Folger] has called for instances. I beg leave to recite one instance where the parties have failed to obtain justice through the Legislature, which is a proper question to come up before and be settled by the board of supervisors. Not an hour's carriage-ride from the county-seat of the county

base of a mountain. That little town is extremely annoyed by a stream that comes from the mountain, and after a heavy rain or on the sudden melting of the snows, the water comes down in torMr. E. BROOKS-Yes, I can name a great rents, entirely beyond the means of their control. many; and I will speak as a member of the Com-At such times many of the houses are filled with mittee on Cities and Village when in the State water, and the cellars and streets filled with Senate. Sir, if we could have worked twenty hours a day in the mere reading of bills which were laid before that committee-some of them covering seventy pages of folio matter, sometimes in manuscript and sometimes in print-it would have been physically impossible for that committee even to have read them. Those village corporations were very often proper subjects for the board of supervisors, and would have been regulated much better than the Legislature could have done.

Mr. FOLGER-Where was the mischief? Mr. E. BROOKS-I will tell the gentleman where the mischief was. Here is a petition from a number of gentlemen representing some locality asking the member representing that locality to pass a bill establishing a corporation-a city, if you please, in some county. Next year comes from these very same persons a petition to amend the previous act. The first experiment has failed, and they ask that the law be amended. The third year will come a request from the very same locality, and the very same people, asking that the village charter be amended again. Your

gravel. They have repeatedly petitioned the Legislature to have the course of that stream changed along the base of the mountain, as it could be done very easily. But a large land holder, owning the land below the town has persistently opposed the change. The parties have appealed to the Legislature from year to year, but that single wealthy citizen has always defeated all attempts to secure the relief those citizens are so justly entitled to. Any three disinterested men, if they go and examine the premises, will not fail to say that the prayer of those petitioners should be granted. That is a case in point that should be left directly to the board of supervisors. In that case that little town would obtain redress. I think the question before the committee is a very important matter. That class of legislation-purely local-should be left solely with the boards of supervisors of the different counties.

Mr. GRANT-I am opposed to the lodgment of legislative power in boards of supervisors; first, because I believe it to be wrong in principle;

second because I believe no good has yet, or will, laid out and opened by complying with certain hereafter result from an exercise of the legisla-requirements. The county of Greene, on its tive power by boards of supervisors. The theory immediate borders, provides that a private road of our government is the theory upon which every shall not be laid out upon any such conditions. republican government should be based, that the A man living near the border desires a private legislative power of that government shall be road passing along the county line-the conditions composed of three branches, namely, first, the that will entitle him to that road on one side of Assembly, coming directly from the people, rep- this county line will prevent it on the other. A resenting more immediately the interests and public road ie desired passing down some valley wants of the constituency; second, the Senate, and over a county line. The laws of one county more remote from the people, composed of men provide that certain acts and requirements must of experience, whose terms of office we have precede the laying out of that road ou one side of just prescribed to be four years; and third, the this line, and on the other the same conditions executive, to criticise and review-clothed with will deny it. In a short time we have sixty legis the veto power. Now, we have clung with lative assemblies, each enacting laws of its own, tenacity to our Assembly, coming immediately for the elevation of its own constituency, regard. from the people. We have clung with tenacity less of the interests of its adjacent equal. Tho to our Senate, with a term of four years, combin- people of the counties know not what the law is, ing experience and wisdom. We also cling with or whether State or county is supreme. The tenacity to the veto power of the Governor, courts know not what the law is, nor whether creating a check to hasty legislation. Now, why State or county must prevail. Sixty miniature depart from this principle, and establish in this governments rise up in opposition to each other, State sixty miniature legislatures, each holding and the result is that we have nothing but confua distinct power of legislation, without being sion, internal discord, certainly destructive to our more immediately responsible to their constitu- common prosperity. And all this, sir, in my opinency than the Assembly, without the wisdom and ion, is the inevitable result of this broadcast disexperience of the Senate, without the check of the tribution of our legislative powers among so great veto power from the Governor? Sir, I think we a number of legislative bodies diverse in intershould not. If we go back to the proceedings ests, with no central power, unaccompanied by the of the Convention of 1846, we will find that wisdom and experience of a Senate or the safethis provision authorizing the Legislature to guards of the Executive veto. vest certain powers of legislation in the boards of supervisors became a part of our Constitution without such consideration as was due to so great an innovation upon a system combining wisdom, security and stability. And, sir, we will further find that the first acts of the Legislature investing these powers in the boards of supervisors were accompanied by a legislative act repealing the game laws, and providing that the board of supervisors in each county might enact such laws as were necessary to regulate the taking and preservation of fish and game. What was the consequence? I reside near the borders of Sullivan, Ulster, and Delaware counties. In those three counties were three different sets of game laws, and in a little valley crossed by lines of three counties, and that which was crime on one 88 under the present Conside of these lines was an absolute right on the stitution. After rejecting these amendments other side. Fish could be caught at all seasons of we can take the seventh section of the report of the year up to an unseen line, but could not be caught the committee and build upon that a system of beyond that line without liability to punishment by remitting to the boards of supervisors, under genlaw for misdemeanor. Here is what was termed eral laws, the management, control and adminis by my friend from New York "a border war." tration of local matters. You may, in a very Three sets of laws conflicting with each other, strict sense, say you will thus give them and all in discord with the statute of the State, legislative power; but it really would be all to be enforced in a single small valley, and nothing more than confiding to local author. perhaps on a single farm! This proposed distri-ties the power of regulating local affairs under bution of legislation is in violation of our long-general laws, instead of having all those local cherished theory of government, and has not been matters brought before the Legislature to be a success in practice. Again, I object to this dis-regulated and controlled by special acts. Now, tribution upon the ground that there will be great sir, I believe we can improve in many respects difficulty and embarrassment in the administration the administration of State affairs by conferring of the laws emanating from these divers sources, upon the boards of supervisors of counties more no one being in any manner bound by the action power than has ever been conferred upon them of any other. Gentlemen upon this floor ask us by the Legislature under the provision of the to allow boards of supervisors to pass laws regu-existing Constitution. I think they are the proplating roads. Sir, if you please, the county of er bodies to regulate, control and administer Albany passes a law that a private road shall be county matters. While I object to some portions.

Mr. KERNAN-I concur generally in what was said by the gentleman from New York [Mr. Evarts] against creating what could in any just sense be called fifty or sixty legislatures of the State. Nevertheless, I am opposed both to the amendment of the gentleman from Seneca [Mr. Hadley] and the amendment of the gentleman from Steuben [Mr. Rumsey]. I believe we will be able to do something in framing a Constitution which will relieve the Legislature of the State from a great deal of local legislation ard yet not do what will be open to the objection of creating divers legislatures for the State. Hence it has seemed to me that the committee should reject both of these pending amendments and not leave the State in this regard substantially

Mr. HAND- As I understand it, the board of supervisors settled the matter, and afterward the Legislature interfered with the action of the board of supervisors. I know of an instance in our own county, where a certain gentleman, unknown to the great mass of the people, went to the Legislature and got an act passed-unjust in its character which resulted in putting a very heavy tax on the county.

of the seventh section, yet I think, with this as a basis, the Convention will be able to give them, by the Constitution, some power over local matters without creating the difficulties that have been suggested. We may perfect it so as to avoid the dangers which are feared by some gentlemen, and give them that power which is essential to their controlling local matters; and which will relieve the State and the Legislature from the evils incident to the large amount of special legis- Mr. A. LAWRENCE-Will the gentleman allow lation which is annually had. Local affairs will me to state the facts in this regard? The county be better controlled, managed and administered of Schuyler was organized by an act of the Legby local officers elected by the people of the islature passed in 1854. The location of the site counties, than through special legislation or by for the county buildings was fixed by commisofficers appointed at Albany. This is the correct sioners appointed by the Legislature, and building theory of our government. I shall vote against commissioners were also named in the law. The the pending amendments in the hope and belief board of supervisors, by a two-thirds vote, passed that we can perfect the seventh section reported by the committee, so as to safely give to boards of supervisors a larger power than they have hitherto possessed over local matters.

for two consecutive years, removed the county seat after the county buildings were nearly completed. In about two years the Legislature again removed the county seat to the location fixed by Mr. HAND-I believe it is expected by our their commissioners. The supervisors, by a twoconstituents that we do something of this kind; thirds vote, passed for two consecutive years, that we at least do something to correct this great again removed the site, and the Legislature again, evil complained of-corrupt legislation. Now, there after about two years, confirmed the original locaare a great many fauciful theories brought for- tion, and fixed it permanently, as was supposed, ward here. The gentleman from Delaware [Mr. by the division of a town, which would thereafter Grant] talks about the proper frame-work of gov- prevent a two-thirds vote in favor of removal, ernment. That is all very well in theory. It is all after which we remained at peace for about six good talk; it will all read well when we look at it. years, but last winter the Legislature passed a law But there is such a thing as common sense, however again conditionally removing the county seat. much we may ignore it; and the people understand This was done in accordance with a resolution of that, if you bring it home to them. Now, there are the board of supervisors, hastily passed, and the interests in my locality, in every locality, that no action of at least one of the members was repuman from the east end of Long Island who comes diated by his town I think before the final pasto Albany can be made to know anything about. sage of the law, and it was claimed also to have He cannot know anything about it by petition. been done upon the petition of a majority of the I can get dozens of signatures to petitions that uot voters of the county, including a majority of the five men will read, but they will sign the paper voters of my own town, which has always, with I present, just from my statement of the con- great unanimity supported the location which tents thereof. The only method members of the it was proposed to abandon; and it is very Legislature have of knowing anything about my generally conceded that the signatures from that local interests is by representations made to them. It is an easy matter to bias the opinion of a member from my county so he may misrepresent me; this may be done at home or in Albany, cr he may live in a locality where his local interests differ from mine. It may be impossible for me to get justice in my locality. But a board of supervisors, restricted by certain local regulations, it is impossible to humbug or deceive. They understand our interests thoroughly. No mau can deceive them; no man can corrupt them. If they judge wrongly at one season, they can correct their error the next. It has been asked if any evil has ever grown out of legislation on local subjects. The gentleman from Schuyler [Mr. A. Lawrence] mentioned a case in which very great evil, great wrong, and great injustice has been perpetrated upon that county. They have been put to the expense of erecting two sets of county buildings because the Legislature chose to act concurrently with the board of supervisors. I believe the supervisors located their county buildings and seat of government; but the Legislature, under what influence I know not, changed the location, thus overriding the local authorities.

town, aud probably from others, were obtained by representations which were not realized by the provisions of the law.

Mr. HAND-I would ask, after this statement, whether anything can be done to remedy this abuse of power by the Legislature.

Mr. FOLGER-I would ask whether anything can be done to remedy the action of the board of supervisors.

Mr. HAND-If we wanted to change the name of a town in my place, we must send a committee here to have it changed. If we want to change the name of a town from Port Crane to Fenton-after our respected Governor-I think we should have the privilege of doing it. But we have not the power. I do not know what enormities they might perpetrate if a clique in a remote part of the county chose to act wrongly. Let the board of supervisors attend to those things that are purely local. I ask, what evil is to come from legitimate local legislation? I am in favor of the report of the committee on this subject, with the restrictions mentioned by the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley], that three-fourths of Mr. FOLGER-It was a change in the board the members of that body shall record their votes of supervisors which brought about that change. 'for a measure before it shall become a law.