DEC. 24, 1832.]

Reduction of Duties.

[SENATE.

in no spirit of dictation that the information asked for would be given. The projet of the Secretary would challenge just so much admiration as its merits may deserve. In the settlement and adjustment of this great question, he cared not what set of men was employed, or from what department the materials were obtained. His object in urging this matter was for what he considered beneficial purposes. He cared not from what department of the Government aid was invoked. If it could be beneficially exerted at this moment, it ought to be done, for there never was a period when the beneficial action of the Government was more imperatively required.

With these considerations, he had ventured to submit this proposition of the Committee on Finance in lieu of the resolution of the gentleman from Mississippi. He understood that the resolution had come into this body with the almost unanimous concurrence of the Committee, who were well aware that the Secretary had all the materials before him for the formation of a projet of a bill.

elsewhere as here, had required the express disclaimer of the Treasury was the mere agent of this body. It was which the Senator had made. He could not permit an imputation to exist against him even by remote inference. He was actuated but by a single motive-a desire to tranquillize the country by a movement on the tariff. He could not concur with the Senator in the objections he had thought proper to urge against the resolution. He saw an obvious propriety in adopting it, and so thought the Committee of Finance who reported it; and why not avail ourselves of the aid of the Executive Department in adjusting existing difficulties? Why not bring the whole power of the President to bear upon this vitally important subject, as well here as with the people. The Senator waived all the advantages of our position; what were they? Heretofore the South had been left alone to its own exertions to get rid of the tariff: we had here but our fifteen or eighteen votes. The administration was represented, as best suited the purposes of the respective disputants on this side and on the other. Gentlemen were evermore guessing at what was meant by a judicious tariff. The explanation was now given; and a judicious tariff was Mr. BIBB said that although he had voted in favor of now understood to mean nothing more or less than a tariff the consideration of the resolution, he should vote both for revenue. The President and Secretary recommend against the amendment and the resolution. It was his ina reduction on the protected articles to the extent of tention to give his vote against both the resolutions. The $6,000,000. Is not too much asked of us when we are present was truly deemed an awful emergency. The porequired to waive the advantage of this new condition of litical atmosphere was black with portentous clouds, affairs, by listening to the suggestions of what he believed which threatened to break in civil war. He wanted to to be a false delicacy? He claimed all the benefits and meet the emergency with legislation, as speedily and as advantages of this situation of things; and he had a right efficiently as possible, and not, by pouring oil, to add vito require all the aid that the Executive could afford to gor to the flame which already raged. If the bill or projet carry out its own suggestion. The country expected which was called for from the Secretary would have the every man to do his duty; and he was satisfied that the Se-effect of uniting the votes of that body, or even would cretary of the Treasury would promptly answer a call of bring about the reduction which was proposed, without the Senate. Shall we, then, be deterred by a mere dispute losing a vote, he would then vote for it, were it not for yet about forms, now that we stood upon a dangerous preci- another reason. He was most anxious to avoid a contest pice; he hoped not. at home, which would array brother against brother, but Mr. BROWN stated that he would be the last to do he would not, in times of such difficulty and danger, conany thing which would violate the constitution, or would sent to establish a precedent which might be productive imply a bending to the departments. But he had been of future evil. Civil war was undoubtedly one of the wholly unable to see what danger there was of increasing greatest of evils, and was to be deprecated by every lover the power of the departments. He was unable to un- of his country; but there was a still greater evil to be derstand the drift of the conflicting arguments he had feared in the loss of civil liberty by the concentration of heard on this subject, when it was contended by one that all power in the Executive. What was it which the Sethe power of the departments had been weakened, and nate were asked to do? They are asked to send to the by another, that it had been made stronger, and that they Executive Departments for a bill. This was adopting were giving them too much power. He asked if this was the British principle in effect. It was the practice in a new case. Was ite the first time that the Secretary had England to send the minister to Parliament with projets; been called on to communicate a bill? Precedents to sus-but, instead of doing this, it is now proposed to send to tain the practice might be found in the darkest days, and to show that this course had been sanctioned by the most illustrious names of the republican party of our country. He admitted that it ought not to be an act of every day practice, but when it had been universally admitted that the country was on the edge of a precipice; when it was admitted that the exigencies of the moment were such as to render prompt action necessary, it appeared to him that these little matters of etiquette ought not to have any influence on the Senate.

the minister for a projet. This practice he deprecated, and against it he would enter his solemn protest. Not that he disagreed with the views. He wanted the information asked for, or something like it. But he was willing to take things as they were. If he could command the affections of men, and was gifted with sufficient powers of persuasion, there should then be no differences of opinion here or in the other House. But let the Senate ask for this proje!, and let it be stamped with the hand of the Secretary or the President, and they will at once enlist all the old feelings and prejudices, at a moment when an awful catastrophe seemed to be about to break upon the country.

It had been very properly remarked, that, the dreadful condition of the country required instant action. The people had re-elected the Chief Magistrate to the station he now holds by a commanding and overwhelming voice, He had now explained his views. Whether he accordand this circumstance furnished a reason why this admin-ed with others or not, he knew not; but he felt that he istration should be called on to communicate their views had performed his duty. In doing this, he had inat this great crisis. He believed that their requisitions dulged none but the best feelings towards the Secretary. would not be shrunk from, but that the President and his He believed that this officer had faithfully discharged his Cabinet were prepared to meet the great crisis. He be-duty; and was as willing as any Secretary ever had been lieved that they would find no qualms, no disposition to shrink from their duty. If they exhibited any such feeling, he would say they were quite unfit for their high and responsible stations. He could not think that the adoption of this course would compromit the dignity of the Senate, or interfere with their right. The Secretary

to give his views up to discussion. For the possession of manly candor and integrity, he was willing to give him all credit. But it was not necessary to call for his opinion on this subject, because the facts were already before the Senate, and because a bill reported by the Finance Committee, which was a portion of their own body, and was

SENATE.]

Reduction of Postage.

[DEC. 31, 1832.

equally bound to their constituents as to the Senate, would If not, they would report against the measure, and there be better calculated to unite the opinions of the Senate would be an end of the matter, unless the Senate should than any thing which could be obtained from the Treasu- decide on a reversal of the report. ry Department. He should, therefore, vote against both propositions.

Mr. BUCKNER then stated that as the debate seemed to be far from a close, and as he wished to make a motion relative to the adjournment of the Senate, he would move to lay the resolution and amendment on the table. Having withdrawn the motion,

Mr. POINDEXTER expressed his hope that the Senate would not consent to lay the subject on the table; but that they would take the vote at once, without further debate, as it was important that, if sent at all, the requisition should be addressed to the Secretary immediately. Mr. BUCKNER replied that he was not, himself, prepared to vote upon the subject. He required more time for reflection before he should feel his mind at freedom. He then moved to lay the resolution and amendment on

the table.

The motion was agreed to.-Yeas 16, nays 11.
The Senate then adjourned to Thursday.

THURSDAY, DEC. 27.

Mr. SPRAGUE said that he had presented the resolution in this form, for the purpose of obtaining the opinion of the Senate whether there should be a reduciton of the rates of postage or not. He did not offer the reso. lution in the usual form of instructing the committee to make an inquiry, because, to speak frankly, the subject had been before the committee during the whole of the last session, and he was not aware that any report had been made. If he was in error on this point, he hoped he should be corrected. He had, during the last session, presented several petitions himself, praying for a reduc tion, and having felt himself bound to pay some attention to these memorials, he had from time to time made inquiries of the committee, as to the progress of their investigation into the subject, and had been informed that they were attending to it; but he had never been apprized of any report which had been made. What, he would ask, were the opinions of the committee on the subject? There had been a report on the reduction of newspaper postage, but it was composed exclusively of that branch. There had certainly been five petitions, at had not been acted on. The report on the newspaper postage was discussed at the last session; and he presumed that members might probably be prepared to come at once to a decision on the reduction of the letter postage, and to make it peremptory on the committee to report a bill, the details of which, and the amount and the mode of reduction, might then be the subject of a future discussion.

The sitting this day was spent in disposing of petitions, the least, for a reduction of the postage on letters, which resolutions, and sundry private bills.

FRIDAY, DEC. 28.

The Senate was occupied to-day altogether on private bills and other matters, eliciting no debate; and then adjourned to Monday.

MONDAY, DEC. 31.

REDUCTION OF POSTAGE.

The following resolution, offered by Mr. SPRAGUE on Friday, was taken up for consideration:

As to breaking in upon the treasury for the support of the Post Office Department, it was certainly a question of some moment, but he was not aware that the divorce between the treasury and the department had Resolved, That the Committee on the Post Office and ever been complete. There never had been a period Post Roads be instructed to prepare and introduce a bill when the treasury had not contributed to the support reducing the rates of postage. of the department. For several years an annual amount Mr. GRUNDY rose and stated that on the face of the of about 70,000 dollars had been appropriated out of the resolution, it appeared to be not a mere resolution of in- treasury for the 'support of the officers of the post quiry, but one peremptorily directing the committee to office. It had been formerly said that in an account curbring in a bill to reduce the rates of postage. If the Se- rent, the Government would be found to be indebted nator from Maine would consent to modify the resolution, to the department. The Government, it was suggested, so as to give it the usual form of an inquiry into the ex- was indebted to the amount of half a million annually pediency of the measure, he would consent to its adop- for the postage of the departments, and the privilege of tion; and should a reduction of the postage be found franking all documents and communications. If so, there practicable, and could be consistently effected without could be no great evil, if the Government paid for the breaking in upon the Treasury Department, he would amount of the services rendered by the department: and co-operate with the Senator from Maine in effecting his if the Government were to be called on for no further object. But he could not consent to such reduction, aid, it could be considered as only equal justice if they unless the principle should first be settled by the Senate. were to pay for these services. How did it stand now? He thought it would be injudicious and indiscreet to re- The channels of information for the people were taxed duce the rates of postage, without a proper inquiry into for the benefit of the Government. It appeared to him the expediency of the measure. No reduction of any that the diffusion of knowledge, of information, through importance could be made consistently with the financial the country, which ought to be, and he presumed was, situation of the department. He would vote for a sim- the primary object of the Post Office Department, made ple inquiry, but not for a peremptory instruction, unless it important that the cost of this transmission should be the Senate should first sanction the principle. He was reduced to as low a rate as possible. This was one of the against breaking down the department; and provoking, avowed means of diffusing information among the peoperhaps, future charges of mal-administration when the ple, against which there existed no constitutional objec Senate had committed the fault of abridging the means tion. Were other means of communicating knowledge of the department. If the Senate should wish to make suggested, constitutional objections were at once raised. the Post Office a charge on the treasury, so let it be; But here, through the Post Office Department, a mode but let it be done openly, and let an annual appropriation presented itself which was not liable to such exception. of half a million be made for that object. He moved to By its agency, knowledge can be transmitted to the extre amend the resolution, by striking out all after the word mities of the Union; and it was important that the diffu"instructed," and inserting the words "to inquire into sion of that intelligence which formed the basis upon the expediency of reducing the rates of postage." Then, which all our institutions rested, which was the life-blood if the committee saw that it could be done, they would of the community, essential alike to the well-being of the make such reduction as would correspond with the ability people and of the Government, should be at as low a of the department, and would report a bill to that effect. rate as possible.

DEC. 31, 1832.]

Reduction of Postage.

[SENATE.

The Senate had been called on to reduce other taxes, showed why, in his opinion, there should be no reducwhich were said to be oppressive upon the people, and tion, and had given the grounds on which he had formed why not this? If the Government were required to pay that opinion. The Senate could judge, therefore, of what their quota, it might enable the department to reduce use it would be to refer it to the committee merely to inthe general rates of postage one-half; for, taking the quire into the expediency of the measure. A report average annual amount of postage at two millions, and might, after some weeks, perhaps, be expected against estimating the Government postage at half a million, the the propriety of any reduction. This was a just inference general reduction would not be more than 500,000 dollars to bring the aggregate down to one-half. He thought that the Post Office ought to be called on to make a reduction equal to the Government postage.

He would not urge any observations on the subject of the unproductive post offices, but would conclude with expressing his hope that the Senate would make the instruction peremptory.

from the course of the committee last year. The gentle. man from Tennessee had urged the same argument now which he advanced last session; that the revenue of the Post Office would not sustain the department without aid from the treasury.

Mr. GRUNDY begged leave to say a word in reply to what had been said concerning the petitions on this subject last year. He was one of the committee to which Mr. GRUNDY said that the difference between the those petitions were referred. It had been said that the Senator from Maine and himself was, that the former de- committee did not see fit to report upon the subject. They sired a peremptory direction to the commitice, while he, did not make any specific report in relation to these me(Mr. G.) wished to have a previous inquiry instituted to morials. They considered that the report made concernascertain the expediency of the measure. It appeared to ing the postage on newspapers covered the whole ground. be yielded, or at least not controverted, that if there were Mr. CLAYTON resumed, and asked why the same subno other funds than those of the Post Office, it would be ject should be again sent to the same committee. To give improper to reduce the rates of postage, and that it should it that direction would be in effect to decide that the rates not be done. But it was said that the Post Office accom- of postage ought not to be reduced. The gentleman modated the Government to the amount of half a million. from Tennessee had said that the rates should not be reThat he believed, and he had so stated in the report duced, because, in that case, the department would bewhich he had presented to the Senate. But there was a come a charge upon the treasury. Probably this might great principle to be settled. Would the Senate consent be the case, but this was not a good argument against the to make this department a charge on the treasury! If measure. It was true, as the gentleman from Tennessee the rates of postage were to be reduced half a million for had stated, that the expenditures of the last year exceeded the first year, must not the tariff duties be reserved to an the income; and it was also true, as the Senator from equal amount? But would it then remain at this point? Maine had said, that the department had always been a The Post Office Department he regarded as the most un-charge on the treasury. Every year there had been an manageable of any in the Government. If they were to appropriation made from the treasury for the payment of put the whole of the treasury at the disposal of this de- the officers of the department. Last year the amount was partment, such were the constant and pressing applica- $70,000, and the year before $80,000. It had been a tions for new expenditures, that it would be found impos- charge on the treasury, and he had no doubt it would sible for either the department or Congress to resist the continue to be a charge, although he was not prepared to frequent appeals for increased facilities. Take away the decide on the matter. But he did not see that because check which was to be found in limited resources, and the department was likely to be, or was, a charge on the there could be no control exercised over the officers of treasury, the rates of postage ought not to be reduced. the department. He intended nothing individually; but He thought, with the gentleman from Maine, [Mr. let any man be placed in power, with inexhaustible means SPRAGUE,] the diffusion of intelligence among the people in his possession, and without any responsibility, and there was an object of such importance as to demand from the could be no limit to the lengths he would go. A sense of Government a reduction of postage; and he was ready, at propriety, it was true, would restrain some men, but this any moment, to give his vote in favor of it. He presumed would be found too feeble a restraint to prevent prodigal expenditures.

every member of the Senate was ready now to give his decision, and he would not delay it. He hoped the opinThe question was not as to the propriety of a reduction ion of the Senate on the propriety of the reduction would of postage, but as to the permitting of the department to be expressed now, and that it would not be sent for examgo to the treasury for its subsistence. The expenditures ination to a committee which had already decided against it. of the department during the last year exceeded the re- Mr. HOLMES said it was not his intention to discuss ceipts about 7,000 dollars. But there had been an increase the subject of the Post Office Department much more. of above 100,000 dollars in the profits; and but for this It had had its full share of his attention. The great diffithe department would not have got along. Congress had culty at this moment seemed to be to determine how the also required that now, on the 1st of January, there public money was to be disposed of. Now if one departshould be put in operation 20,000 additional miles of route. ment had no money to spare, and another had too much, These new routes would impose on the department an why could they not be good neighbors and help one additional annual cost of above 100,000 dollars. Ought another? This was a tax upon consumption. It was no any further reduction then to be made without some in- part of the protective system. It did not operate like that quiry? He believed that the department should not be system which, by protection, produced competition, and supported out of the treasury. There could be no ques- by competition reduced the price of the article. This tion on the point whether the department could reduce was a tax upon consumption. He had given notice of the rates of postage one-fourth, in reliance on its own re-his intention to-morrow, to ask leave to bring in a bill sources; and he could not therefore vote for a peremp-amendatory of the acts regulating the Post Office Detory instruction, although he was willing to vote for an partment, but he could say that there was nothing whatinquiry. ever in that bill which was likely to disturb the nerves

Mr. CLAYTON disavowed any desire to embarrass the of the gentleman from Tennessee. He had not then department. But he wished to obtain the sense of the known the intention of his colleague to offer this resoSenate on the question of reduction. The gentleman lution. The object of the bill which he was about to infrom Tennessee had assigned a reason why there ought troduce was to extend the franking privilege during the to be an inquiry, which he considered to bear strongly recess. There was in it nothing of nullification, nothing against giving to the resolution the usual form. He had of the protective system, nothing of internal improve.

SENATE.]

Reduction of Postage.

[DEC. 31, 1832.

ment. These dreadful words were not even to be found The present rates of postage was fixed when the area of in the bill. He was about to retire from the Senate, per- the population was much more limited than at present, haps the gentleman from Tennessee was also about to and the distances were comparatively small. The rate leave this body, and probably the gentleman from Mary- of postage for all distances beyond three hundred miles land. They had had some experience, and it might be was then fixed at twenty-five cents. Since that time the as well that they should have the opportunity of impart-whole of the Western States has been thrown open, and ing the advantage of their experience to those who might the mail has to traverse an immense region of territory desire it, and to those who were to fill their places. which has only of late years become known. It seemed

Mr. FOOT expressed his hope that the amendment of but just that the cities in the remotest region of the West the gentleman from Tennessee would not prevail, and should be charged in proportion with those which were that the Senate would now come to a decision on the ex-nearer. There was room then for improvement by makpediency of the reduction of the rates of postage. He ing our views more expanded. He merely threw out referred to a resolution which he had introduced last ses- these opinions, and left it to others to act upon them. sion, calling on the department to furnish a statement of He should be in favor of an instruction to the Postmaster the extra allowances made to contractors, &c. in the dif- General to furnish at the next session of Congress some ferent States, and to which no answer had been given. scheme of the nature to which he had referred. But he The petitions presented to the committee had received would not now make any specific motion on the subject. no answer. The argument on which the gentleman from Coming to Congress, at the present session, with feelTennessee rested his opposition to any reduction was to ings deeply impressed by the present condition of the him, (Mr. F.) a strong argument in its favor. That gen-country; believing that if the State vessel in which he tleman had said, and said truly, that there was a danger had embarked, with all his hopes and interests, should that any man would abuse power. Were we to set no go down, he must go down with her; attending no pub. limits to the power of the Postmaster General? It was lic meetings; making no patriotic speeches, he had come high time to impose some check on this power, and the here prepared by his vote to testify the sincerity of his best way was to reduce the rate of postage. This was love for the Union. It was his object, it would be his enone of the greatest taxes on the people of this country: deavor to give tranquillity to the country. Now, what and if the Postmaster General was to have all this under was the present proposition? It was to pension the dehis control, without responsibility, there was great danger partment on the custom house. Let this be done, and of abuse. He hoped the resolution would pass without let the whole means of the treasury be within the reach any further delay, and without any attempt to give it the of the department, and a time may come when the wishes go by. of every man, who can obtain the interposition of a memMr. BUCKNER made a few remarks in opposition to ber of Congress to urge his views, will be gratified at the the resolution in its original form, and in favor of the expense of the country. He then proceeded to expatiate amendment. He thought that the duty of committees on the injustice of burthening the hard and honest laborer was to collect and communicate knowledge to Congress for the benefit of cities. and the country, to enable them to form correct judg- He looked on this as number two of a series of mea. ments in matters of great public congern. This know-sures intended to prevent the reduction of the revenues ledge was not to be extracted by positive commands. The of the country. The bill which was to change our whole gentleman from Tennessee wished so to modify the reso-system in reference to the public lands, he regarded as lution as to make it a call on the committee to give their number one. What was to become of the proposed reopinion, and this he (Mr. BUCKNER,) deemed the proper duction of the tariff duties, when the expenses of the pubcourse. When the whole object of a resolution was to lic lands, and of the Post Office Department, are to be require the committee to prepare and write a bill, the all thrown on the custom house? He was here to aid in best course would be, instead of offering a resolution, to the pacification of the country by his votes, and not by ask leave and introduce a bill at once. He did not see his speeches. Being here for that purpose, he should what good could come from adopting the course of the resist all measures which went to prevent the reduction of gentleman from Maine. Were the committee to be cut the revenue This he considered as number two of meaoff from the opportunity of making a report against the sures to prevent the reduction of the tariff duties, and he, measure? Why are they to be thus tied down? His for the sake of the country's peace, should oppose it. own opinion was opposed to the propriety of reducing Mr. SPRAGUE said, that when he offered this resoluthe postage. It would be to take the burden of the tax tion, he did not believe that a subject on which he supfrom the reading part of the community, and to put it posed that all had made up their minds, would have upon the unreading, and would not be circulating know- elicited a debate of this length and latitude. The Senator ledge gratis. It would be compelling the unenlightened from Missouri [Mr. BUCKNER] had argued the question as to bear a tax for the enlightened, and would be a direct if it were a proposition to increase the burthens of the imposition on the unlearned. He wished for the com- people. And he was certain that any one who had heard mittee fairly and fully to examine the facts, and to pre-a portion of the speech of the Senator from Missouri, sent them, with their opinions, to the Senate. and had not understood the exact character of the reso

Mr. BENTON said he would prefer that an instruction lution, would have supposed that the proposition before be addressed to the department to present to the Senate, the Senate was to impose additional burthens on the peoat their next session, a new scheme of postage, embra-ple. Now, what was the proposition? It was to take cing a reduction which might be carried into operation off, to diminish the burthens of the people; to rid them without injury to the department. In the course of his of one of the most onerous taxes to which they could be inquiries and investigation, it had frequently occurred subjected; and a tax, too, upon knowledge, a tax on into him that such reduction might be made. In double, formation, upon the diffusion of which the security and treble, and quadruple letters, he thought there was much permanency of our republic rests. One gentleman had cause to hope for some beneficial arrangement. If a let- said that it was a tax on the ignorant part of the country. ter contained the smallest slip of paper, or was enclosed in a cover, or contained a bank note, which could add nothing perceptible to its weight, it is charged with a double, treble, or quadruple postage, which is out of all proportion to the additional expense of transportation. There might also be an improvement in another point.

He (Mr. S.) wished to do away with the ignorant part, and if he could not altogether, he would as far as he could. He would banish ignorance, by diffusing light among the community at a cheaper rate, and thus making the ignorant wise. But it seemed that the blessings of light might not be extended, that information was not

DECEMBER 31, 1832.]

Reduction of Postage.

[SENATE.

to be diffused, the burden of an unequal tax was not to was perfectly true that, of all the departments of the be diminished, and knowledge was not to be disseminated. Government, there was less responsibility in the post And why? because it must be paid for; and the appre-office, and a more unlimited discretion, and a greater hension was that those who were not in possession of the latitude in the application of the funds of the department greatest share of the advantages were to be slightly taxed in the making of contracts and extra allowances, at the for what they did enjoy. mere will and pleasure of the Postmaster General, than The tax on a letter from a distant friend, what was it to in any other department. There had been a degree of the rich man? It was nothing. But when the poor man latitude allowed which was extremely impolitic and danreceived a letter from a distance, he found it something. gerous. Why was this? It was the people's money. The postage on newspapers was also very considerable, Why had it never been looked into? Why had one man as it was on every branch of the post office. He would been permitted to expend thousands and hundreds of legislate emphatically for the poor and ignorant, by thousands among contractors, to liquidate such claims as spreading all knowledge through this channel at the least they might bring forward, and no examination had been possible cost. He derived his ideas on this subject from instituted? He made no charge against any individual. the place of his birth. It was there that he was early He merely stated the fact, that all this unlimited discretaught that knowledge for all the community should be tion had existed, without supervision and without control. paid for by all the community. He derived his views, or Why, he would ask, was this? It had been suffered to prejudices, if so it was considered, from the system of exist, because the funds had been furnished by the defree schools in New England, where the rich man who partment. So said the gentleman from Tennessee, who had no children was taxed for the poor man who had a seemed to think it quite sufficient to show that all was family, in order that the burden should rest on classes. It was the feeling which he had thus imbibed in infancy, and which had become fixed in maturity, which had induced him to offer the resolution.

paid out of the funds of the department, as much as to say, you have nothing to do with this. He (Mr. S.) observed, that there was not a department of the Government in which there was one-tenth part of the patronage to be found which was now exercised by the head of the Post Office Department.

But it had been said that this was Chapter 2 of a series of measures to prevent the reduction of the tariff. He had consulted no man before he offered his resolu- If the post office were to be subjected to the annual tion. He did not know that there was a single Senator scrutiny with which the appropriation bill is watched, who even knew of his intention to offer it. His object or to the specific action of Congress, the responsibility was single as it was simple. Whenever the subject of of the department would be increased two-fold, and the custom house, and the tariff, and the duties should there would be an effectual check on its expenditures. be specifically before the Senate, he should be prepared He was not afraid, in this view, of the effect of an alliance to express his opinion by his vote, and by his voice also, if he deemed that his duty required it. He had merely intended to bring before the Senate, at this time, a subject on which he thought that all were prepared to act.

were not prepared to act upon it.

with the treasury: there would then be more scrutiny and more caution. Nor did he think it an objection, that the Government should pay for the amount of its postage. He did not wish to throw this department on the treasury, He had stated that he thought Government should pay but he had no apprehension of it. He had no objection for the expense of postage. He did not wish to go fur-to postpone his resolution for the present, if the Senate ther. It had been argued that the West ought to be against the reduction, because the East benefited most largely by the transmission of letters. This is in amount to say, the East supports the Government, and must be held to it; and the West must not be permitted to be taxed. He did not believe that the Senate could be brought to listen to an argument of this character.

Mr. GRUNDY expressed a perfect willingness that the resolution should at once be acted on. Whatever the Senator from Maine might wish, as to the effect of the reduction, every step taken in the business leads indirectly to the result of making the department a charge upon the treasury. The money subtracted from the One gentleman had said, if you once allowed the trea- post office must be made up by the treasury. The desury to be called on, there will be no end to draughts on partment could not apply any where else for it. And the the treasury. He would merely say, that the treasury effect of a reduction of postage must be to prevent a realways had been called upon. What, then, became of this duction of the tariff to precisely an equal amount. Such argument? It had also been alleged, that his resolution must be the effect. That the necessary expenditures of allowed no latitude to the committee, and that he had the Government must be the limit of its revenue, was a thus been deficient in courtesy. When it was known doctrine to which the public mind was rapidly confirming. that he had presented petitions to the committee, and One of the most ingenious modes which can be adopted that they had held them in their hands several months, for keeping up the tariff at its present level, was that of it could imply no want of courtesy in him to present a keeping up the expenditures of the Government to the resolution which emphatically called for some action. present amount of its revenue, instead of bringing down His object was to produce reduction. It had been said the taxes to the limit of the necessary expenditures. He that no latitude was allowed to the committee. Now, he was no advocate of a tariff, especially of a high one; was of opinion that there was great latitude allowed: the and as the department had heretofore sustained itself, he mode of reduction and the amount were left to the dis-had no wish to sanction any measure which would make cretion of the committee, because he believed that their it burdensome hereafter. The department had always knowledge made them better qualified to fix these points, sustained itself, with the exception of the annual approand that they were most able to prepare the details of a priation of about sixty or seventy thousand dollars for bill. It was his wish that they should mature a scheme clerks; and as a set-off to this should be taken into conof reduction, and present it to the Senate. sideration the franking privilege given to members.

The gentleman from Tennessee had produced an ar- When he saw the first Senator from Maine rise in his gument which he (Mr. S.) must confess, however plausi- place, and then the Senator from Delaware, and then the ble it might appear, had no weight with him. That Se-other gentleman from Maine, he felt a variety of apprenator had stated, that this was the most unmanageable of hensions from such an apparent concert of action. But all the departments; that there was a want, not in the now that he understood that each was acting for himself, present incumbent, of responsibility, which, if once a he felt himself greatly relieved. He was glad to find that resort to the treasury were allowed, would prevent any each Senator was acting for himself, per se, and that they Imitation of draughts hereafter. He (Mr. S.) believed it are not in alliance. He did not know what to think of the VOL. IX.-3