ther place of the goods we smuggled into linens, which our linen manufacturers were that country; that we should not at- now not afraid of meeting in our market. tempt to enter into trade with an inimical Not to mention, that all the connexion with power, yet spoke of the value of the Spa- France was then a matter of just alarm, nish trade to us, though acknowledging when from the inclination of the Court France was always sure of her. But the the most serious dread was universally gright hon. gentleman had rested much on prevalent, both for our civil and religious the opinion of the manufacturers being liberties; when every well-wisher to both contrary to the Treaty: this Mr. Wilber- knew the dangers that surrounded us, and force declared, he knew not to be the was anxious to preserve the Protestant case; they were almost universally favour- succession, and resist the claim of the able to it; nor was the state of things the Pretender to the throne.—Mr. Wilbersame as in the instance of the Irish pro- force then gave many reasons why he positions; nor were the arguments appli- thought the Treaty would be advantagecable which had been urged against that ous to this country, both in a financial, measure the great apprehension then commercial, and political view, adding, was, that the Irish manufacturers would that this seemed of all others the most be set to work with English capital; but proper time to make it, when the French in the present case there could be no such were resolving to exclude our manufacground of apprehension; besides the re- tures, and set up for themselves; for we luctance every Englishman would feel at made it unlikely that our manufacturers living under a despotic government, and would go over to their assistance, by findtrusting his property to the arbitrary and ing them new work at home, and took uncertain determinations and principles of away much of the spur to French indusa French tribunal (arguments of which try, by supplying them with our articles the right hon. gentleman himself had ad- in a more perfect and finished state than mitted the force, though not then aware they could hope at first to produce by of the conclusion), would they be their own efforts. He congratulated every likely to erect those expensive works, and friend to the happiness of mankind, on the construct those machines which were ne- permission that was now granted of the cessary in carrying on the great manufac- free exercise of the Protestant religion in tures, when the Treaty was made but for France, which, he hoped, would tend to a term of 12 years? This shortness of introduce a spirit of general toleration the term of its duration, was a complete and good-will. He confessed, however, answer to this and many other arguments that the most pleasing view he had of the that were urged against it; for that term Treaty, was in the tendency which he manufactures were as permanent an arti- hoped it would have to check those decle of supply as produce, though much had structive contentions between the two been said of the disadvantages attending countries, by making the preservation of an intercourse between two countries, an harmonious intercourse the mutual inwhen the one furnished the fruits of the terest of both; not that we ought blindly earth, a constant produce, whilst that of to rush into their embraces as the right the other was variable and transitory, as hon. gentleman had said; he would have manufactures were ever shifting from us still watchful, but he would have us place to place. The right hon. gentleman maintain the caution of jealousy, without had made great use of the figure of speech the folly and extravagance of that pascalled the dilemma; and he must say, he sion. Much had been said on a former thought the right hon. gentleman had in- day, of forming alliances, of the balance volved himself in one, by making it neces- of power, of its being the policy of this sary for him either to give up his arguments country always to set up itself in opposior his vote.-A commercial intercourse tion to that state, whatever it might be, with France had, it was said, been formerly which was for the time the leading one unfavourable to this country; but then, it in Europe. This principle, as far as it must be recollected, our woollens were had been acted upon, had, he would alexcluded from their markets by prohibi-low, administered to our glory, and made tory duties; most of our capital branches of manufactures were then either in their infancy or wholly unknown, whilst they had the liberty of bringing in their silks, which were now prohibited, and their us splendid in the page of history; but he wished the country would at length learn that important lesson, that the greatness and happiness of a people were not the same. Impressed with this truth, with the dictates of his own conscience, he was voting agreeably to the general wishes of his constituents. it was with pain he had heard the right hon. | gentleman (Mr. Fox) appeal to the ambitious feelings of the House the preceding evening, though he confessed the power of his eloquence was such, that he found it necessary to keep this principle steadily in view, that he might not be seduced by it. The true policy of Great Britain was, by a strict attention to the internal resources, the morals, and manners of the people, to endeavour to make herself at once happy and respectable: we should attend to our navy, the true source of our strength, and of the best sort of strength the defensive; foreign connexious would often lead us into quarrels, nor were they altogether so easy to be formed as negociators might flatter themselves; of this the right hon. gen,tleman himself might afford an example, who did not find the sanguine expectations could be realized, which he had excited in the instances of Holland and America;—and he might also be adduced as an instance, that alliances, or confederacies, or coalitions, or whatever they might be named, between great Powers, were not always productive of the good effects which had been hoped from them. But to be serious, if the right hon. gentleman's system had made us often reap the laurels of victory, yet had it not loaded us with 250 millions of debt? had it not laid us under the necessity of abridging of his comforts every cottager in the kingdom? and what were the feelings of the poor creature who, with his windows stopped up, with scarce food to eat, or a house to live in, by the miserable light of a candle he could scarce afford to burn, was to be compensated for all his distress, by reading over a speech of the right hon. gentleman, in which he was dignified by the honourable appellation of "the Adjuster of the Balance of Power, and Guardian of the Liberties of Europe?" Mr. Wilberforce concluded by observing, that this was not one of those questions on which gentlemen might suffer their personal predilections either for or against a minister, to operate in determining their vote; it was by far too important a one for motives like these to be attended to. They should have no weight with him; it was his firm conviction, that in supporting the measure, he was giving an unbiassed support to a proposition which was for the good and happiness of the country; and it gave him a particular pleasure to be able to say, that whilst he was acting in conformity Mr. Flood denied having contradicted himself, and re-stated what his argument had been, in the particulars pointed out as contradictory. With regard to the manufacturers opinions, he had said, the evidence they had given on the Irish propositions was such as made it perfectly fair for him to take advantage of it, and to assume that the manufacturers did not approve of the Treaty. The hon. gentleman asserted, that the manufacturers did approve of it. What is that, said Mr. Flood, but the hon. gentleman's assertion? and it contradicts mine. The hon. gentleman therefore has contradicted me; but does it follow that I have contradicted myself? The hon. gentleman had complained of his holding a dialogue when there was neither of the parties present to answer him. He begged to know whose fault that was? He wanted to have the manufacturers at the bar to hear them deliver their opinions, and the hon. gentlemen would not let them come. For his part, he should have been peculiarly happy to have seen the gentlemen, because he had often known an eloquent member of parliament, in a fine speech, say that for a manufacturer, which he would not when present say for himself. With regard to the right hon. gentleman who had made the Treaty, he had not sent him to Paris, and had much rather have seen him in the House, as he knew of nothing so formidable about his abilities, as to make him at all afraid of coping with him. Flood paid Mr. Wilberforce some compliments, but begged that he would not be too prone to charge him with contradicting himself, and with errors and mistakes; and more especially when he put his country in contact with the charge which he thought proper to urge against him. The hon. gentleman (said Mr. Flood) talks as if this Treaty was to make man more moral, more religious, and more exemplary. Are we then to expect a cargo of missionaries from the Continent? But if it will increase the morality of the people, the religion of the country, the honesty of our tradesmen, I shall indeed say it is the best treaty that ever was negociated. Mr. Mr. Fox rose to vindicate himself from the insinuations which Mr. Wilberforce had been pleased to throw out against him personally. With regard to what he had stated concerning the peace with America, he would give him the same answer on that subject which he had always done; and that would be a flat denial. With respect to the negociation with the Dutch, if there was any blame to be affixed to that measure, he was willing to take his share of it, though it had been done with the unanimous consent of his Majesty's council. That it failed he did not pretend to deny; and its failure, he verily believed was owing to the influence of France. That hon. gentleman had stated, in the meekness of his nature, that he dreamt not of power, nor did he wish to tread the paths of ambition; but immediately afterwards, he has a vision, which tells him that the navy of Great Britain must be kept up; and then he draws a very affecting picture of the distresses of poor cottagers groaning under the accumulated weight of taxes. This was, no doubt, a very ingenious mode of captivating the vulgar; but he would ask the hon. gentleman how the navy was to be supported without taxing the subject? or how the visions of the hon. gentleman could be realized without a great expense to the nation? But the hon. gentleman had the admirable talent of making attacks under the shield of modesty. Was this country, then, not in a situation to take a part in preserving the liberties of Europe? Was she so sunk in distress as to consider herself inadequate to the preservation of that to which she owed her existence and her rank among the nations of Europe? Did the hon. gentleman mean to hold that language to the world? He wished to know if that was the language meant to be maintained; he wished some person in authority would stand up and say so, because he could then meet it fairly. Would the Chancellor of the Ex-part against France which she thought chequer declare, that we were no longer in a situation to hold the balance of power in Europe, and to be looked up to as the protector of its liberties? He should be glad to come at that point. As to the assertion, that a poor cottager was not to be talked to in that manner, he must maintain that he was; and notwithstanding the pressure of taxes under which the lower order of people in this country laboured, yet it was a comfort to hear that she was the Balancer of Power, and the Protector of the Liberties of Europe. That it was that enabled him to bear his poverty with cheerfulness, and to feel the satisfaction, amidst all his distress, of reflecting on the thought of his being one of the subjects of a free country, whose characteristic it was to balance the power of Europe. Shameful was the neglect which ministers had shown in the formation of alliances. Till that unhappy period when we were left without an ally, we had always fought successfully. From that, however, he did not mean to contend, that it was better to build our hopes on the strength of our alliances than on the strength of our navy. He was aware of the difficulty which attended negociations of that na-a ture; but he asserted, that ministers were culpable in turning away with impatience from any object which they might have ttained, had they pursued it with per severing firmness.-Mr. Fox severely answered that part of Mr. Wilberforce's speech, in which he charged him with having said, that he had a peace with America in his pocket.-The matter it alluded to, passed five years ago, and the hon. gentleman now brought it forward under a gross misrepresentation. He had never used the words, but had said there were those in Great Britain empowered to treat for peace. And the fact had turned out exactly as he had stated it. Mr. Dundas said, there was scarcely a single argument relative to the situation in which this country had stood for many years back with respect to the other Powers, that he was not ready to adopt; but he must call upon the right hon. gentleman for an explanation in what manner those arguments could be brought to bear upon the present Treaty. He could not see what relation they had to it, being fully satisfied that there was nothing in the Treaty, which in the smallest degree tended to throw a difficulty either in the way of this country's taking any political proper, or of entering into an alliance with, any other Power. What was the Treaty but a measure calculated to enable her to circulate the manufactures of her own artizans in a ten times greater degree than ever she could do heretofore, by opening to her one of the most extensive markets in the world. And in doing so, where was the danger? Her own market she was sure of, and whatever might be said of the probability of its being wrested out of her hands by France having the power of importing her manufactures, the high protecting duties rendered such a matter impracticable. Mr. Dundas declared, that the proportion in which the commerce of Mr. Drake confessed, that he felt himself disposed on all occasions to give his support to the executive government, when he supposed that their intentions were good. On the present occasion he was convinced that they acted from the purest patriotism; and that if in the course of the investigation of the business they should find it against the interests of the country to enter into a commercial alliance with France, they would recede from the proposition. He concluded with exclaiming, "Blessed are the peace-makers and the peace-preservers." the country would be increased was be- | him as a country gentleman, Mr. Powys yond all conception: thus, instead of the said, the country gentleman who should British capital being, as the hon. member govern his public conduct by mere conChad stated on Monday, conveyed to France, siderations of private interest, was a miseand there lodged, to the great inconveni-rable animal indeed. No impression arising ence of Great Britain in case of a sudden from the circumstance of the land-tax war, it would be turned much oftener than being 4s. in the pound, or even more, before, and the profits would be multiplied should induce him to vote, upon a matter and increased in proportion. The hon. of great public importance, differently gentleman who had started the difficulty from what he conscientiously believed which he had just mentioned, had in the would be most for the good of the country. course of his speech objected two different ways, and he wished him therefore to reconcile the contradiction. He had talked of the British capital being conveyed into French hands in one part of his speech, and of the British glass manufactory and cotton manufactory being nearly ruined Ein consequence of the duties upon the importation of those articles from France being too low to protect our manufactories. Mr. Dundas contended, that it was wise in this country during a time of peace to take advantage of the circumstance, and by extending our commerce to fill the coffers of the state. He commended the good sense of Mr. Grenville's argument on Monday night, when that gentleman had recommended an alliance with her own manufacturers as the best alliance I which Great Britain could form, and that I most likely to enable her to be ready for war, whenever war should be inevitable. He should not be afraid of saying to a French minister, "If you want to make I war with this country, begin when you please, and where you please; if in the East, you will find an army ready and a full treasury; the same in the West, and the same in Europe." In fact, the point Great Britain should now aim at, should be to reduce her debt and fill her coffers; she would then be able to subsidize allies, and sustain the charge of every needful preparation. Mr. Powys rose to explain the points of his former speech, which had been animadverted upon by Mr. Dundas. He said, he had risen at so late an hour on Monday, that he had barely stated the outlines of the matters which struck him upon the Treaty. Mr. Powys then recapitulated I what he had said relative to the injury which he feared the glass and cotton ma=nufactories would sustain, and his doubt whether a great part of the British capital would not be transferred over to France, and upon a sudden emergency be felt as a material inconvenience by this country. In answer to Mr. Wilberforce's address to ¶ Mr. Alderman Watson rose to say a few words upon the Treaty, and principally to call the attention of the committee to the state of our trade. In 1677, we had but one vessel with lingering sails, a single solitary bottom, that went to the Baltic; in 1786 we had several hundred sail, with a vast number to Greenland. He commented on this difference, and argued that it proved in how flourishing a state the trade of this country now was, and that it at the same time showed, how cautious we should be in taking any step which might affect it. He suggested that France and America were in connexion, and that the latter sent her produce to France and was supported from France; France, therefore, by the Commercial Treaty with Great Britain, might enable herself to fulfill all her American commissions at the expense of British credit. He declared, that this was a serious consideration, and merited more than common attention. Mr. Hussey recommended the worthy alderman's speech to the serious attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He should vote against the Treaty, because he feared that it would produce mischief to the country. Mr. Fox observed, that the circumstance which was very natural to happen, had arisen from the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer having so properly declined to make any speech; and the de bate had proceeded solely on the general merits of the Treaty, without a single word having been said to the particular question before the committee. He would therefore move an amendment which would go to the question immediately; and that was, to add, as part of the resolution, "that it was the opinion of the committee that the duties on the importation of Portugal wines should at the same time be lowered one-third." This would be an effectual means of preserving the Methuen Treaty in full force, so far as it related to our part of the obligation, and would enable Government more advantageously to negociate the pending Treaty with Portugal. The proposition was so self-evident, that he saw not any ground on which it was objectionable; but he was prepared to debate it either then, or, as it was so late an hour, the next day, if the committee thought proper. He added, that as the committee had not regularly before them any information that a treaty was pending, or what state it was in, it the more became them to convince Portugal, and all Europe, that their wish was to continue the Methuen Treaty. Mr. Pitt expressed his doubts, whether, in point of order, when they were considering of a Commercial Treaty with France, and proceeding to vote resolutions, signifying their intention to fulfil the conditions of the Treaty and carry them into execution, they could take cognizance of a resolution respecting the wines of Portugal; but, putting the point of order out of the question, he did not think that a proper moment to take up the consideration of the Portugal wines. He had before told the House that a negociation for the redress of grievances was pending with Portugal, and that negociation was, he hoped, in a fair way to be soon brought to a conclusion. As soon as news arrived of its being concluded, he should propose the necessary resolution to the House; but supposing that the negociation was not brought to an end before the Bill passed, that would be necessary to carry the Commercial Treaty with France into execution, a circumstance by no means impossible. In that case he should think it his duty to propose to lower the duties on Portugal wines for such a period, as might reasonably be thought sufficient for the negociation with the Court of Lisbon to be brought to a termination in; but if, what he trusted and hoped would not happen, the Court of Lisbon would not redress the grievances complained of, and refused to continue to preserve the spirit of the Methuen Treaty, in that case he should propose to Parliament to think of putting the wines of Portugal upon equal duties with French wines. Having declared this, he would leave it to the committee to decide whether the amendment should be debated or not. Mr. For denied that the objection in point of order could hold out a moment. The Treaty expressly mentioned the reserve in favour of Portugal wines, and consequently nothing could be more strictly regular than to notice them at the same time that the resolution relative to the wines of France was voted. Mr. Fox took notice of the candid explanation which the right hon. gentleman had given of his intentions, but nevertheless thought it ought to be fully discussed; and as it was so late an hour, he would propose that the debate be adjourned. Mr. Grenville said, that the right hon. gentleman had discussed his motion in what he had remarked concerning it; unnecessary, therefore, was it, after the explanation which his right hon. friend had given, to proceed any farther upon it for the present. Mr. Fox ridiculed this idea, and observed, that he had only given his reasons that an adjournment was necessary, as the amendment which he had to propose was likely to occasion some debate. If the question of adjournment should be opposed, he should consider it as a violation of decorum, and a mark of disrespect to his side of the House. The committee divided on the question of adjournment: Yeas, 76; Noes, 91. The original resolution was then put and carried. Feb. 16. On the order of the day being read, for the House to resolve itself into a committee, to take into further consideration the Treaty of Navigation and Commerce with France, Mr. Fox rose and observed, that he was now resolved to submit to the consideration of the House the question which, on the preceding evening, he had been prevented from introducing, in a manner much more extraordinary than any interruption which, during the eighteen years of his having enjoyed a seat in Parlia ment, he recollected to have experienced. If he might take the liberty of pressing his own opinion upon the House, he |