SESS. institute these proceedI will not crush even a eve Gardiner to be, I will nounce Mr. Corwin in annding upon a future judge gentleman says, suppose guilty by this court, would r holding this money? I e evidence discloses that dollar of this money from ed States. The testimony the thought was a good at warranty, with a quitbetween him and his ashe one under him, it seems, st in it. at when the case in court , if it shall be so proven, which arrested Gardiner an who holds a portion of on the same footing as the have no reason to doubt be just as vigilant, and the as vigilant, in ferreting out o not care in whose pocket Mr. Corwin will act tonot know. Whether he n to make good what he condition, I do not know ugh to moot the propriety atter after the case shall be be fradulent, if that shall ge Law, or his assignees, ll fail to respond. Ɔ THE PACIFIC. ON. JOHN BELL, bruary 5 and 17, 1853. on, › Senator from South Carmade a very forcible, but I ible attack on this bill; and e of his objections, I do I be able to dispose of all of ich he has presented them, ld be impossible; for shape tind in what manner you only plausible but strong 5 it. This bill partakes of ing else in legislation, and nan. It is imperfect, and n that can be devised by the e gentleman on this floor, to put together the various his description. The Senna has denounced this bill constitutional-as a viola7; and he is therefore oplenounced it as premature. 8 strong terms as he could, nt lights before us to guide aining such a measure as ed the plan before the Sene, with conflicting provis1 it as merely experimental, ve nothing to assure practicable. He has dedous monopoly if it shall be successful; and, what conflicting with his own measure, he has said that if may prove to be no moto a company, the expense pon the United States. In he has denounced it I do will not take time to look I attempted to sketch them , I am in favor of this road: encing its construction at an orable Senator from South it us The Pacific Railroad—Mr. Bell. But I ought to have stated that the honorable Senator sounded the alarm-drum of party prejudices; and in connection with his other objections, he appealed to his Democratic friends to recollect their obligations, to be found in the platform adopted by that party. He appealed to the prejudices of those who have stood in this body for years contending against a system of internal improvements by the General Government within the limits of the States, and he proclaimed that this bill was carrying out such a practice and such a policy on the part of the Government of the United States. From all these considerations, I take it for granted, therefore, that the honorable Senator is opposed to any bill of this kind; that he is not only so opposed now, but that he must remain so until the Constitution is amended. It is true, he has said that under the provisions of our present organic law, this Government has a right to make a military road through the Territories of the United States; but I would ask what, in these days of progress, is a railroad but a military road? If we have a right to construct a military road, to what great purpose would it inure, at this day, if it were not a railroad? Suppose it was necessary in time of war to send troops and munitions of war and other army supplies across the continent, over the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada, for a distance of two thousand miles, what use at this day would an ordinary military road be-I mean a road by which you would have to drag cannon up the sides of the mountains and let them down on the opposite sides, pack your provisions on mules, or draw them with oxen through the narrow passes? That would be what is generally considered a military road, and the honorable gentleman thinks he has no objection to such a road as that! Such a road would be behind the times. According to his own argument, I would ask the honorable Senator what is a railroad but a military road? If the honorable Senator will reflect upon the objection, I think he will see that he will be obliged to with draw his opposition as to the constitutional power, so far as it is proposed to run this road exclusively through the Territories of the United States. Mr. BUTLER. My friend from Tennessee will allow me to make one remark in this connection. I have never gone further than to say that I would be willing to vote for a reconnoissance and survey, to see whether a military road could be made. I do not know that, after we should have that reconnoissance and survey, I would deem it to be a matter of policy to construct such a road. Mr. BELL. I remember the honorable Senator did make some such qualification, but he seemed to doubt whether we could construct even a military road over these mountain passes. But 1 am traveling out of the order of the remarks that designed to make. It occurs to me that there is one method of argument which will prove the most effective answer to the Senator, and that would be to trace the history briefly of this proposition to construct a railroad to the Pacific, from its inception to the present time. I have stated before, that I am in favor of such a road. I am not wedded to the particular mode or form of construction which is provided in this bill. If I cannot find a majority of the members of this honorable body concurring in this proposition, I am willing to take what, in my judgment, may be an inferior one, in order to get something which will answer the great purpose-I mean a road to the Pacific. If I had the power of sitting down and devising the best means in my judgment, and had the power, at the same time, of bringing to a concurrence with me a majority of the members of this body, I would frame a very different bill from this. But it was because I was in favor of the commencement of such a road as this, at the earliest possible day, that I gave my consent to this bill. Four years ago, Mr. President, I gave my consent to the project of Mr. Whitney; and I am not prepared to say, even at this day, that that was a very wild or extravagant project. A majority of the Legislatures of seventeen different States of this Union were brought to concur in the propriety of making that experiment. They did not look stand upon equal grounds, || nicely at what it might cost the country. They at all? If he be not in its SENATE. for the making of what many of them must have known, from the lights that were before them, to be an experiment. And so, to make a remark pertinent to one that fell from the Senator from South Carolina to-day-that if this road shall turn out to cost fifty per cent. or one hundred per cent. more than we suppose in the bill before us, and prove to be a failure, he considers that all the expense will fall on the Government, and be a total loss; I say even then it will not be a failure. We may be making an experiment as to the cost of the road, it is true; but if it shall cost $80,000 a mile instead of $40,000, I shall consider it a profitable experiment to the country and to the world. And again, if the road were to stop at the base of the mountains, and could go no further, still every one hundred, or four hundred, or five hundred miles you advance with it, suppose it stops there, is so much space overcome and gained in the transit between the Atlantic States and Pacific coast. You shorten the land transportation; you shorten the transportation of troops and munitions of war by that much. The expense and labor are not lost. The honorable Senator's argument is a failure, when he attempts to show that if we cannot accomplish all we propose, all is lost. Every hundred miles we proceed with the railroad is so much gained. But to recur to the history of this project. The Senator from South Carolina says this project is premature. Five years ago, I believe, we ratified in this body the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Then, if the Senator had anything to object to making inroads upon the Constitution of the land, in this age of progress, then was the time for him to come forward with his objections. But from the moment that treaty was ratified, and California became ours, by a stronger and more imperative necessity than existed before, when we had only Oregon, it was settled that we were to keep up with this progress, and connect the Atlantic and Pacific together. It was then as inevitable as is now the necessity of making this road, to my mind, and I think it will be to every other Senator who will consider of it for a moment, calmly and without prejudice. We must have this tie, this bond, this channel of communication, if we mean to hold the territory which was ceded to us by that treaty. And, sir, for fear I shall forget it, let me now, although it is not strictly in the order of my remarks, call the Senator's attention to another point in answer to one part of his argument in which he complains of the infraction of the Constitution, and of what this progress has done. He should go back, to the admission of Louisiana into the Union, through a treaty with France, and commence this breach of the Constitution there; and he will trace it on to the admission of Florida through a treaty with Spain; and then, I trust, he will come to the admission of Texas; and when he complains of what progress has done in beating down the barriers of the Constitution in regard to the acquisition of territory, and the improvements projected to hold it in our control and dominion, trust he will reflect upon the mode in which Texas was admitted into the Union. I do not know that he was in public life then, but I know that he is associated with gentlemen who gave their hearty concurrence to the measure for the admission of Texas. The greatest breach, in my opinion, ever made in those barriers was made by the mode in which Texas was admitted into the Union; and if the honorable Senator has no fault to find with that, surely he ought no longer to complain-I mean the admission of Texas by a resolution passed by a majority of the two Houses of Congress. Mr. BUTLER. I do not know what would have been my judgment at the time, if I had been called upon to vote; perhaps I would have yielded to assimilation-for the gentleman seems to say that, by assimilation, I shall be responsible for that measure. I might have assimilated to the views of others; if I had to give my opinion, however, in the abstract, I would have preferred a different mode of admitting Texas. Mr. BELL. That is a fair and candid admission. But after these great barriers, which he thinks it is of such importance that we should hold up in their original strength and solidity, have been broken down in this manner, why interpose ob re: Sir, it is a part as contemplated by ssion of California f Texas, any more e circumstances in I repeat, these are dences of progress. me step in progress to connect the Atnow to proceed in swer the objections arolina. Railroad to the Pacific-Mr. Bell. at this very time, who may be said, with very little exaggeration, to have been upon every square mile of these mountain passes, and the intervening valleys and depressions which we wish to know something about. He has traversed the whole country, almost from the northern boundary of the United States to the south; especially the southern portion. And we have had traders exploring that country, from the Missouri river to New Mexico, and from New Mexico down the Rio Grande, for some twenty or thirty years, with their annual I think I caravans: they ought to know something about the country. We have had traders, trappers, and hunters penetrating even the Salt Lake region years and years before the acquisition of California. I remember General Ashley gave me a most interesting account of that lake-being one of his rendezvous in a trapping expedition in which he was concerned himself; and I recollect very well a thrilling incident connected with it. It is true that better, and more scientific explorations since that time, have thrown all that into the background. ry of this particular his measure has, in Senate of the United f the United States, ago Mr. Whitney's enate in a well-conthe objection was as premature; a ree required, and fifty priated for that pur-s can correct me if I e additional $20,000 for the same purn then was that we to act upon the subt it was practicable; merous reconnois tually taken place n it. In 1849, the e Senate on a motion express purpose of te. It was reduced nce to $50,000. It x. But a large poro the general fund; -re countermanded. ave been more than made. SENATE. termini of this road, that it is necessary to have a description, survey, and examination of the whole of this extensive country, which could not be accomplished in less than five years. I want to know what is the necessity for any survey of the country from the western boundary of the States to the eastern base of the Rocky Mountains? Senators speak of having conversed with able and intelligent engineers. Will they say that any intelligent engineer will declare that, for five, seven, or eight hundred miles, commencing at any eastern terminus which may be selected, there is any impediment which would prevent the construction of the road-I mean any impediment in the shape of mountains and streams, which will authorize them to say that the route is impracticable? There is the whole range of country from the base of the Rocky Mountains east to the Mississippi river, every acre of which, I may say, has been passed over and explored by your ablest scientific men. Any railroad to the Pacific which will ever be thought of, commencing in the valley of the Mississippi, north of Texas, must take one or the other of the several navigable rivers rising in the Rocky Mountains, and running into the Mississippi; the Platte, or the Nebraska, as it is called, the northern fork, or the southern fork; taking the northern fork if you want to pass her up than the South Pass, and the southern fork, if you want to pass at that point; or if the Platte is too far north, take the Kansas. If that is found too far north, and would lead you into the snows and gorges, so as to render the passage impracticable in the winter, and you are compelled to go further south, then there is the Arkansas river; and so far as that offers facilities superior to either of the other routes on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains, it is all known. That has been examined and explored; there is no difficulty there. If that again is too far north, there is the Canadian, and that has been explored by Lieutenant Simpson. And what does he say of the Canadian? He says that for a distance of eight hundred miles there is no serious impediment to the construction of a railroad. It would be worth while, if I had time, to quote his authority, in which he speaks of the country from Fort Smith to Santa Fe. I want to read this, inasmuch as gentlemen have said "we want light; we have no information, and no authority; we have immense deserts which have not water to supply locomotives." He says that on the whole line of his exploration, "wood and water were generally sufficient, and were they deficient, could be supplied 'without inconvenience, by following the directions laid down in the maps." During the last three or four years we have had emigrant trains or caravans-three or four in each season-numbering in all some forty or fifty thousand souls in a year, who have crossed this region to California and Oregon. How do they get to California and Oregon with all the difficulties and obstructions which they have to meet, and which are so great as to carry off some two thousand of them annually? Let it be remembered, however, that the loss of life has not been occasioned by the severity of the cold, or by being overwhelmed in snows, in the gorges of the mountains, but because of the failure of their provisions, or the diseases engendered by the change in their habits of living, or the want of sustenance for their teams. Take the reports of any of the travelers who have given us an account of these things: take that of Captain Stansbury, or any one else; and how many miles of this route do you suppose you can pass over where you do not find that your way will be marked at almost every step of your progress by newly-made graves and carcasses of oxen and mules which have perished by the way? The whole route of these annual caravans or emigrant trains may be said, in fact, to be one continued graveyard. It is under circumstances like these, and privations of this kind, that some two thousand emigrants perish every year on the plains and in the mountain passes in the long and dreary route. And yet, Mr. President, after three or four years of such disasters and privations, and with fifty thousand emigrants passing annually to the Pacific coast, we are called upon to delay still further making any provision for a road across that country. It is said that we have not the lights necessary, and that it is premature to act now; that we have not had sufficient reconnoissances to justify the passage of such a measure as this. I would ask Senators what sort of surveys and examination they propose? The Senator from South Carolina thinks the examination can be made in ten months. g this in answer not Carolina, but to the ken in opposition to at we have no adeon the subject; that uide our judgments; nces or surveys to ha stupendous enad the explorations days of Pike, and rom them, we have Stansbury, Abert, Johnson, and how any of their reports world in an authenespect and admira terprise and skill Some of them, I bes-have not been rt time. Many of nations have taken with a direct view this country-this cticability of conWe have also the and the Gila-the d his company, and ham, when he went Mr. BELL. The Senator being against the bill, solutely unfounded and thinking that we have not power to construct t we have had no the road, I thought it a little singular that he should nd surveys by ref- appeal to us for a delay of ten months. He will upon the practica- pardon me for having misunderstood him. I have entirely mistaken. said before, that a delay to act upon this bill at re some mountain this session will be a positive delay for at least two en explored or sur- years, before any effective progress can be made what is true. And in the construction of this road, because it will hat, by giving the only be at the end of the first or long session of ing at his disposal the next Congress that any measure could be examinations and passed for this purpose, and then it will be too ted. And, what is lare to have any further exploration or survey in entific surveys, we that year, and the road could not be located until ho have spent their the middle of the year following. The proposition Exploring this coun- for the minute surveys spoken of by the Senators s much intelligence from Georgia and Pennsylvania, would require ers and woodsmen; five years, if not ten. I am the more desirous of give you assuran- dwelling upon this point for a moment, on account - of the whole coun- of the influence which may go abroad as the result ssippi to the Pacific of this discussion, and make an impression upon n this city (Laroux) | the President himself before he proceeds to fix the Mr. BUTLER. I will correct the Senator on that point. I said that even if the discussion of this measure were delayed for ten months, we should lose nothing by that delay. There is not only wood but water, and for about three hundred miles of a country that I had supposed to be a desert, destitute of wood if not of water, he says there is an abundance of fine timber for constructing a road. If you go still further south, there is the Red River valley, which has also been explored. Sir, I want to show that Senators assume as facts things which are not facts, and proceed to argue upon assumptions which are utterly unfounded. With regard to the exploration of the passes of mountains-the South Pass has been carefully explored and examined by Colonel Frémont, and others, I believe. Captain Stansbury surveyed a pass still further south, leading into the Salt Lake region. Colonel Frémont attempted to examine a pass further south, and still north of Santa Fe, but was driven back by snows drifting upon him in the gorges of the mountains, where a part of his men perished. The next pass examined is that which passes by Albuquerque, south of Santa Fe, and leads over into the valley of the Colorado. Captain Sitgreaves is in the city, I am told, and he has made a reconnoissance of this route, under the direction of the Government He finds no obstructions which an engineer would consider as such, so far as he has gone. He took up the examination, I believe, where Simpson left it, passing the Rio Grande to the Colorado of the West, and along in that direction to Walker's Pass, in the Sierra Nevada. There is said to be a pass in the Sierra Nevada higher up in California, near the head of the valley of the Sacramento. Others say that there is no practicable pass there. That may be a point to be examined yet. Then there is the Guadalupe Pass, of which the Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. CLARKE] reminds me, which has been sur 32D CONG.....2 reyed, and which lea be provisions of a bill is reasoning powe a south man. the same general sectio A deep interest in th ease interest; and t is surrender their righ but for what?-but f their experienc tical observation of o gislative bodies, that House could ever ag road. I have given y the Northwest and the interest in the locati intermediate sect part to represent, and cky (Mr. UNDER has a deep interest in We all want it as near as to the Atlantic se York and Boston SESS. into the valley of the San he valley of the Gila. Noare numerous passes in the s between the Mississippi ich a railroad could be confrom Illinois [Mr. Doug-en, twenty, or twenty-five practicable, and the quesbest of all. And yet some not been any exploration, ey, sufficient to justify the t of the subject, however, ections to the bill. Sir, I ome more interest in this ith regard to the objections happened to be a member e which reported this bill. net, perhaps there were no ho would have agreed in which they would recomered upon any details, they eral and important princi- || olved in the subject to be , for they justly concluded ial modification of the bills Le Senate could be agreed It so happened that there t committee who was not ught to make an experiall it so, in the construction from the Mississippi river Without consulting other tee, I think I may say there tlemen, constituting a ma, who could have put their ni of the road; or, at all rn terminus, and where, if y would put it to-day, with em. But these gentlemen, wn mind, and without coms to others, saw what every for the last four years, if he ber of this body, and that of Congress can ever agree general direction of a rail as to encounter so many alousies and interests; and osed to allow perfect ingenments of those gentlemen being the proper body to shall be located. I have e Senators, You, sirs, know lone; but I think any genence here does know that upon it, and give full scope s upon his past experience will, I am sure, agree that ettle this question. What years ago, when the friends t it up for consideration? tation, that there could be Senators with regard to the Railroad to the Pacific—Mr. Bell. Charleston, and Savannah have an interest in its location A SENATOR. And Pennsylvania. Mr. BELL. Yes, sir, Pennsylvania has as much interest in it as any other State. Every city and State in the Union has an interest in the location of this road; for it is destined, by its more or less favorable point of connection with their respective railroads and other channels of communication, to affect all their commercial and social interests. The East, not less than the South, has a particular interest in the location of this great road." The committee saw, or thought they saw, that if this bill were reported in a shape requiring the Senate and House of Representatives to agree upon its termini, we should never have the road; and I would like any gentleman now in his place, to rise and say that there is the remotest prospect that Congress can ever agree upon such a question. The first question propounded to the committee by its chairman was, Shall we report a bill fixing the termini of the road? Sir, the gentlemen representing the Northwest, as well as the South, the Southwest, and the East, responded "No." I think we may assume that they were satisfied that we could never pass an act for the road otherwise. It has been suggested to me out of the Senate, May it not be made a question for a scientific corps to decide which is really the best route, the most suitable and advantageous point, to be made the termini? "No," I say, because there is no one terminus east so far superior in its advantages to the country, to all others that it is likely that any scientific board or body would unite upon it; and then if they did unite, the argument would be urged that there is very little difference between taat terminus and one north of that, or one south of it, and so all the evil of conflicting interests and jealousies would still exist. We all, therefore, agreed that the only feasible project was to report a bill without giving Congress the power or making it necessary for them to select the road. Then, the question was, as we decided that Congress could not now and never could designate the termini of the road, Who should be authorized to designate them and the general route of the road? 66 The committee came to the conclusion, after some discussion and difference of opinion-if I may speak upon that subject-that the President was the proper authority to decide such a question as that. The Secretary of War might be under influences, and the country would not have full confidence in a board of officers, as indicated by the Senator from South Carolina. He seemed to think that the influence must operate upon every gentleman, and upon every scientific board, and upon every officer. We thought that it might. We thought that the President (being the highest in power, being President already, the measure of his ambition being probably full-his character being now so elevated) would be the least likely of all public functionaries to come under the sinister influences of capitalists or what not; that he would have his character, his fame, to consolidate by doing justice to the whole country, proudly independent of all influences whatever, personal or political. Or from South Carolina says the location of this road as , sir, though not perhaps so at ground as he, I have an Iso, as a man belonging to The honorable Senator from South Carolina n of the Union to which he says that the President may be liable to influences. in interest in the location of So he may. Where, then, would he place the ors from Indiana, from Illi-locating power? Would he give it to Congress? from Iowa, and from Mis- Why, sir, in his very argument did he not advert n it. The Northwest have to the influences of capitalists in the two Houses location of this road-an of Congress-even the inside influences of capital ey would not be authorized -for he said capitalists would find their way into to contest it on this floor, this body. Other Senators have spoken more om the knowledge derived distinctly and candidly of the outside influences here, and from the prac- of capitalists. The Senator from South Carolina ers who have served in lenamed the large steam navigation companies, and either the Senate nor the the powerful influences which they wield. He -e upon the location of the says that our bill has conflicting provisions. The -u the two great sections- Senator's argument is conflicting in its terms, and -outhwest-that have a deep not only is his conflicting, but so is that of the Senof the road; and there is ator from Georgia, [Mr. DAWSON.] They are all n which I may be said in conflicting. When you bring it to this body, we which my friend from Ken- say that it will not be more likely to be free from OD] also represents, which influences, political or otherwise, than the Presie location of this road, for dent himself or the Secretary of War. We thought = possible to ourselves. the President least of all likely to be controlled by So SENATE. ator from Indiana [Mr. BRIGHT] thinks it a very great hardship that the back of the President elect should be burdened with the great railroad from the Mississippi to the Pacific, with all its running gear and apparatus, in addition to his other great duties; and he protests against the burden being placed upon him. Sir, the incoming President was not my choice for President. He was the choice of the Senator from Indiana. Does the Senator fear to trust his integrity? Does he fear to trust his firmness and boldness in doing a great act of patriotism for the country, and upon sound and pure principles locating this road, when he sees that Congress will not and never can do it? Is he a man that would shrink from such a responsibility? If he is, he is not fit to be President of the United States. But, it is said the President cannot make the surveys and preliminary examinations required. We do not suppose he will. He must have confidence in others, as we must have; the committee said, whatever may be the magnitude and responsibility of the trust, we must put confidence somewhere. The President is a unit. He can decide it. Nobody can gainsay his decision if we vest him with the authority. Congress will not and cannot agree upon the selection of a terminus in a boundary of more than a thousand miles, reaching from the mouth of the Rio Grande to Lake Michigan. There is a conflict of local interests at every steptherefore we cannot agree. The President can determine it. We must trust some one. We think we can trust him; and there is more safety in trusting a man of his position than a military board, or a scientific board, or a Secretary of War, or anybody else. The placing of the power in the hands of the President, therefore, was a necessity; and it is a necessity, if we want the road. You can never get it otherwise. I repeat that it is a matter of necessity. If we could decide among ourselves, I would prefer it, as the direct representatives of States and the people, but we never can, as every Senator's experience tells him. Having decided that we are not to undertake to designate the termini, that Congress cannot do it, and that we think the President is the only proper tribunal that can do it, what was the next question that the chairman of the committee propounded? "How shall this road be built?" And here the Senator from South Carolina again will find his own arguments conflicting, as he says the provisions of this bill conflict, and so will the other Senators who have spoken on his side. How shall we build it? Shall it be done by the Government of the United States, after the proper reconnoissances and surveys? Shall the President not only locate the route, but shall it be built under his direction and control also? Shall the President appoint engineers, superintendents, and agents of every description to furnish supplies, iron, timber, and employ workmen and laborers? The committee thought it wiser to commit the construction and management of the road to private individuals or companies. Senators say we are about to create a corporation, and to give it a monopoly, and an enormous profit; and some Senators, in their places, and others out of them, have said that it will be the most stupendous monopoly that ever was created by this or by any other Government in the world. Why give it to a company? If we must have a road, why not provide that it shall be built by the Government? What do you mean? I appeal to Senators who use that argument-do you mean to say that the Government ought to undertake it? You just now objected to throwing the immense power into the hands of the President to locate this road, and yet you say Government ought to build it, if we must have one. The Senator from Pennsylvania, [Mr. COOPER,] who has had full experience of what his State has done in the construction of roads, and the management of them, says the Government ought to do it. Senators from every quarter can give some experience of the same kind. I apprehend the Senator from Georgia, [Mr. DAWSON,] who contends that the construction of the road ought not to be given to a company, thinks that as the government of his State has succeeded in the construction and management of her railroads, the United States Government ought to think I may underled. Then I would hink the GovernId this road, what d, I think, by the nsylvania, as well rolina, against beige upon the Presde such a proposieral outcry against en unanimous, but m all except those especial confidence States. If we had he appointment of gents, clerks, and ad, it would have us increase of pat: been tolerated in t. Yet honorable roposition to transprivate individuals them to show in it this power. Here e must trust some an to some extent; n institutions; and st the President to l route of the road, making and manand in part to the corporations. it the road in the hich had a direct Railroad to the Pacific-Mr. Bell.. and then abandon the project, and leave it on the hands of the Government. Mr. BUTLER. Oh, no; I said this: that they would take the fifty millions, or whatever the amount of appropriation may be, and go on as long as it would last, and if that would enable them to make a profitable concern of it, they would go through with the work. Mr. RUSK. It is provided in the bill that the payment shall be pro rata according to the work done. Mr. BUTLER. I know that; and they will go on and beg you to give them more money. That I know they will do. Mr. BELL. The company will make a very great profit, he says, if successful; and if not successful, the experiment will be at the expense of the Government. Mr. BUTLER. I say so. Mr. BELL. So the Senator says. And the Senator from Georgia says no man in his senses will invest a cent of money for this purpose, for there is not a sufficient inducement to do it. Now, I repeat my remark of the other day, that if the road is made for fifty miles, it will be so much accomplished, and there is no loss to the Government. And whatever may be the length of the road that is completed, it will give aid to the trains passing to California or Oregon, will carry them so much further on their route, and shorten the distance to be passed over in the present mode. Thus these immense trains will have their journey lessened, and their means of subsistence preserved, and the mails, and Government troops, and milids of the Govern- tary supplies of all kinds, will be cheapened and President the enor-expedited just in proportion to the extent of the probably give him road which may be completed. So that there is ition to the legiti- no truth in the idea that there will be a failure in nder the Constitu- this enterprise, although it may turn out true that waste and extrav- the road cannot be carried through the mountain the construction of passes. The Senator from Illinois [Mr. DOUGLAS] e Federal Govern- says they are passable, that there are some fifteen -ust it to individual or twenty places where the mountains can be might voluntarily passed. We know they can be overcome by sci, pon the terms pre- ence, by genius, and by money. nly patronage that nt, under the bill, = the road, and to ineers on the part e work in its progwhich the commiter to give it to comot to the President. ge in the hands of eat, and that such rried on with great to far greater exd in the hands of : Was it better to donation of public I beg to say that norable Senators, as they allege, are ators have spoken ews. We thought It by appropriating t find private capiundertake it with - land as would be Congress; and we mad better connect money in addition uld be sufficient to sts to take the risk road, and supply f capital might be Georgia says that e is no capitalist in ho would invest in hink I do not misan would risk, for vild experiment as Carolina thinks it nventions to profit brought forward. peaks out-for he that the influence g such a proposiwould not result but the capitalists out of the lands, Mr. BUTLER. By money. Mr. BELL. By money-I give the argument in full. If it can be done by money at a cost of twice the estimated cost of the road, I am for doing it. Money, within any reasonable limit, is no consideration in questions like this. It is possible that a state of things may arise which would show that it would be wise to expend $300,000,000 in the construction of this road, if so much were required. I said the other day that $150,000,000 would be well expended for the road, if it could not be built for less. Will any Senator say that $200,000,000 in lands and money, would not be well expended for such a road, if the question should be this sum or no road between the Mississippi valley and the Pacific coast? I do not know what would be the expense of transporting a body of five thousand men across the old like to California at the present time. I would have the Senator from California, or any other Senator, tell me what it would cost to transport such a body of troops and all their supplies to California, from the valley of the Mississippi. Can the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. CooPER] enlighten us on that point, and what it would cost to subsist them for one year by overland supplies? Mr. UNDERWOOD. It costs about twenty dollars to transport a barrel of flour to Santa Fé. Mr. BELL. I would like to know whether it would be possible to transport five thousand troops, with a train of artillery and other munitions of war, to California or Oregon in one year, from the valley of the Mississippi. Senators may say that we could transport them by sea by the way of Cape Horn, or by the Isthmus of Panama. You can get them there in that way with a sufficient number of transport vessels, if they are not cut off by your enemies lying in the way. But if you were engaged in war, with a powerful maritime nation, how could you do it? I am speaking of such an emergency; and I appeal to honorable Senators who have recently had their attention called to the questions affecting our foreign relations, to consider this question with reference to the condition in which we shall be placed in the event of a collision with any foreign Power. It was in connection with that subject that I said SENATE. $150,000,000 might be well expended to secure a road to California and Oregon, on which troops might speedily pass to those possessions. What do Senators suppose it would cost to retain those possessions in the event of a war with England or France? I do not know; but I believe in such a case, as we are now situated, it might be a better policy to abandon those countries, and let a foreign yoke be imposed upon them, until we could construct upon the Atlantic coast a sufficient number of vessels of war to be able to meet them successfully upon the ocean. If you were to attempt to hold those possessions at any cost, as probably the country would feel it to be a duty to do, how many millions would it take to do it? That is the idea upon which I set out to show that if this road should cost even $200,000,000, it would be better than not to have the road at all. Mr. BUTLER. If the honorable Senator will give way, I will move to adjourn, because I see he is now but in the middle of his argument. Mr. BELL. No, sir. I could finish in a short time, but I do not wish to detain the Senate. Mr. RUSK. I desire to make an announcement to the Senate. I desire to say simply that I do not wish to crowd other business out of the way by this bill. I am anxious to come to a vote upon it, and I hope the friends of the measure, and those who are opposed to it, will agree to come here on Monday prepared to go through with it, and settle it upon that day. Mr. BUTLER. I move that the Senate ad journ. The motion was agreed to, and the Senate adjourned. THURSDAY, February 17, 1853. The bill being again under consideration, Mr. BELL continued as follows: The question, I believe, is upon the amendment of the honorable Senator from Pennsylvania, [Mr. BRODHEAD,] to strike out all of the bill of the Select Committee except the enacting clause, and insert what has just been read. In other words, the proposition is now to commence a reconnoissance and survey for this great enterprise. Of course, if it succeeds, it is fatal to any further legislation at this session of Congress upon the subject of the construction of this road. Now, I want to have the proper issue made between the opponents and the advocates of this great enterprise, as the responsible agents and representatives of the country. The project of the Select Committee has been denominated a stupendous and monstrous one-as one of great extravagance and recklessness. If that be the true character of the measure, there is a very heavy responsibility resting, not only upon the Senate, if they shall enact such a bill as this, but there is a responsibility attaching to each advocate of it; and if it be half so extravagant and monstrous a conception if it presented itself to my mind in that light, as it has been said to be, I should very speedily, wash my hands of it. But there is another responsibility, and it is a responsibility which attaches to honorable Senators for their opposition to a measure so loudly demanded by the country and so necessary for its defence, unless they can show that their objections are well founded. It is not generally safe to get up and make round, wholesale objections to a measure, unless those objections can be sustained by the evidence before Congress and before the country. The proposition contained in the amendment of the Senator from Pennsylvania is now, in 1853, to commence the explorations and examinations of the route for this great work, as if, during four years, I may say five years, since this new and last accession to our territory has been made, these examinations had not been going on with more or less assiduity, and more or less success; as if report after report had not been made to Congress, communicating observations and explorations; as if you had not, by your order, printed numerous reports of explorations and reconnoissances, with expensive charts and maps, of a large portion of the country intervening between the Mississippi valley and the Pacific ocean. 32D CONG.... fore the passage of ins at several diffe then some more par would become proper a branch road from of the Sacramento vε I propose to recapitulate very briefly the points of objection to this bill, and the answers that can be made to them. The first objection is, that be › SESS. Railroad to the Pacific-Mr. Bell. Zuni, and across the great valley of the Colorado Do Senators mean by examinations and sur- SENATE. Another suggestion is, that if such a scientific board were to report to Congress, which, in its opinion, would be the best route, it would be a safer plan. In regard to that, I repeat that there would probably appear to be so little difference between some two or three of the projected routes, that individual members of Congress would say, "Here is not so great a difference between the several routes examined that I should be called upon to surrender my own private judgment upon the subject, and the interests of my constituents." We all know that the whole interest of the Northwest is in favor of a northern route; the middle States of the West are in favor of some intermediate route; and the most southern and southwestern States must naturally prefer the most southern route. Where is there a route which has so great an ascendency over all others in reference to the great questions of practicability, economy, and speed, and a due regard to the commercial interests, the protection, and defense of the whole country, as to command the assent of a majority of either House of Congress? Such a thing need not be expected. ch a bill as that reported by or any other projects which rther explorations and surund laid before Congress. It even know that the proposed id that it is preposterous to t in regard to which we have reply to that, I have to repeat lay-that we have the report ig parties, composed of men xamined as many different he Mississippi valley west3 that intervene between that , and crossing those mountent passes. Every square lope from the Sierra Madre ains, which are only an exadre, to the Mississippi, has camined-not surveyed by or that is not necessary in prise; but the whole of the seven or eight hundred miles e mountains to the western es bordering the west bank s been carefully examined. 's and reconnoissances may ded before the President, or y be authorized to locate the Il proceed to the performance surveys of the comparative of the various depressions or tinct mountain ranges that Mississippi valley and the I say, then, that it is not true that we have no e Sierra Madre, west of the sufficient lights upon the subject to justify a legisged as you go north in what lative enactment providing for the construction of he Rocky Mountain range, this road. Three of the passes in the Sierra Madre Nevada, still further to the I have mentioned are confidently pronounced pracus two distinct mountain ticable by able and skillful engineers, so far as the Then, when the question who should designate which constitute the proper construction of the road is concerned. One of them, the termini and general route of the road was setare examinations or surveys upon further investigation, may not be considered tled, another question was: Shall the road be built; President will be qualified to so on account of the snows which accumulate in shall the work be done by the employees of the GovE the road. The survey of winter. Walker's Pass, in the Sierra Nevada, is ernment, or be handed over to individual enterprise? these two mountain ranges, pronounced practicable by the same authority, and I will not repeat my argument on that subject. we already possess, will be there may be yet another found which will be so As to the patronage and influences which are to able the proper authority to likewise. How is it, then, that Senators, in the grow out of it, the opinion of the committee, and route of the road. For ex- face of all this evidence, persist in arguing that I think it will be the opinion of every sensible of the Nebraska or Platte we do not yet know that it is possible to make member of this body, was, that it would be far as the most desirable route this road-that any route has been discovered more dangerous to give the construction of such d which is to be constructed which is practicable? The point which I wish to a road as this, that may not be completed even in adre or Rocky Mountains, make is, that the only additional examinations twenty years, for anything we know, to the Excular examination and sur- and surveys that we went are such as are neces- ecutive than to private individuals or companies. may be necessary to be made sary to determine which of the several practicable The vast number of Government agents and superthe grade and probable cost passes known to exist will admit of the easiest intendents, and other employees, required in carryver the Rocky Mountains at grading and the least cost; and when these poinsting on such a work; the vast amount of money to uth Pass should be found to are settled, all that ought to be required or exbstacle, either in the eleva-pected before the road is located will be accomand the snows shall be found struction in winter, then it to examine whether a road pass could be extended by hat point into Oregon, but uld be found impracticable; and examinations on this be extended through the SiEtain whether there is any mountain towards the head ley. If such a pass can be of winter shall be no impedPass likewise being found ticable, then I should say ht be properly regarded as ute for this great work. ass should be found practieavy grades, or if the snow inquiry, be found to be a to that pass, then surveys be ordered, to see whether e Sierra Madre may not be e head-waters of the Arkanof the West, which may be ns. I am aware that Colonel y were very near perishing, em did perish, in attempting pass, and that there is not lulged of its practicability. Sierra Madre, as you pro1 require a more particular y, is that through which a an or Rød river would lead plished, and all such necessary examinations and Another objection to the bill was, that when we and their local interests and partialities; and that Gentlemen say, Why should we trust the President in designating the route of this great national work? I answer, because we cannot agree among ourselves. It is said that it is too great a subject to trust to any man, no matter how high in authority. But we can do nothing without putting our trust in man. We trust the President with the great and important duties connected with the execution of the laws and the executive power of Government, and why should we not trust him with this? He has a higher responsibility, and we may, with more confidence, trust him than any one else. be disbursed and expended would, in themselves, constitute an amount of patronage equivalent to that of many independent Governments of the earth. By committing the execution of the work to private enterprise, we avoid the wasteful expenditure always attending the construction of public works under Government direction and control, and at the same time escape the corrupting influences of increased patronage in the hands of the Executive. But we are told that any company of contractors for the construction of such a gigantic work, will have a vast and dangerous influence. In reply to this, I say, that the chief and greatest interest of the private capitalists who may undertake to build this road, according to the provisions of this bill, will be to construct the road in the most perfect and durable manner; and all the influences they can exercise will naturally be employed in having the work completed in the shortest time, and with the greatest economy. It is said that we propose to incorporate the contractors, and all the prejudices usually entertained against corporations and monopolies, and the dangerous influences which they sometimes wield, are appealed to and exaggerated in order to drive members from the support of this measure. But here again the interest of the corporation or company, if any there shall be, will happily, under the checks and limitations provided in this bill, all be concentrated in the successful completion of the road, and the prosperous operation and skillful management of it. Their interest and the interest of the public will be identical. We need have no fear that they will waste the funds granted by the Government, for |