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peculiar problems. I have no objection to partial federal control for efficiencies' sake, but I think the work of the engineering experiment station should be largely for the benefit of the state and should be paid for by the state.

Experiments carried on in such a station would benefit the people of the state for reasons which have already been mentioned. They would benefit the instructors of the college by bringing them in closer contact with the industries peculiar to the section where the institution is located.

They would have a distinct educational value by interesting the students in the manufacturing problems which will later confront them in practice.

Commercially the stations will serve as bureaus of information and research for private firms which have problems of their own awaiting solution.

For work of this character reasonable fees should be charged in proportion to the magnitude and importance of the interests involved. The line between commercial and scientific investigations is readily drawn. When an investigation is for the benefit of the individual, he pays for it and it becomes his property. When it is of general scientific interest, it is for the benefit of the public and becomes public property. No individual or corporation is entitled to the exclusive use of information obtained by such investigations, unless they are made under contract and paid for.

The scale of charges may be rather less than obtains in private testing laboratories, since the station is not to be regarded as an institution for profit.

There are many problems of rural engineering in which the engineering and the agricultural experiment stations may cooperate. Roads, sewers, culverts, buildings, engines and other farm machinery -in all of these there are elements of interest to farmer and to mechanic as well.

It is to be hoped that this discussion may be the means of awakening more interest in the establishment of engineering stations throughout the country and may result in definite and continued efforts to such an end.

I believe the best results could come at the present time if this Association, either standing on its own feet or in collaboration with other associations would devise some plan to establish engineering experiment stations at all land grant colleges.

CHAIRMAN DAVIDSON.-One of the institutions which has carried on experimental work for a long term of years is the University of Wisconsin. They have not seen fit to establish an engineering experiment station as a separate organization. I am sure that this Association will be glad to hear from Dean F. E. Turneaure, of Wisconsin.

DEAN TURNEAURE.-Mr. Chairman and Members of the Association: The University of Wisconsin has carried on experimental work in engineering for many years, and, for the past five years, an item has been inserted in the budget to provide a moderate amount of money to assist in this work. We have had no special organization for administrative purposes, but the work has been done in every case as a part of the regular work of the various departments of the college of engineering. It has been called merely "research work in engineering." During the present year we have available about $6,500 which is intended for use in special investigations for the purchase of material, payment of research assistants, computors and draftsmen, and occasionally for a piece of special apparatus. Results of research

have been published in various university bulletins and in the transactions of various engineering societies. Up to date about 40 bulletins have been published, some of them dating as far back as 1894, but most of them being published during the past five years.

The question of a separate organization under the name of an "engineering experiment station" has been considered and it appears to be the opinion of those most interested, that there will be considerable advantage in organizing in this manner. Very little advantage would appear to be gained, so far as the actual conduct of the work is concerned, but undoubtedly there would be some advantage in having a name which can be used to represent to the public this part of the work of the college of engineering. The name "experiment station" would, without further explanation, convey the idea to the people of the state that the engineering college is prepared to undertake experimental work in general, and whatever will promote a better understanding on the part of the public is certainly advantageous. Some advantage would doubtless be gained, also, in connection with the support of this work by the legislature and by the regents of the university.

Another point has occurred to me in connection with this subject. If a large number of land grant colleges are to organize experiment stations and carry on research work extensively, it would seem very desirable to have some means by which cooperation could be secured to the greatest possible extent. Many of the problems arising in engineering research are perfectly general in nature and in no wise peculiar to the state or locality. It would greatly promote the efficiency of this great work if unnecessary duplication could be avoided and helpful cooperation secured. This Association appears to be the proper place for the creation of some sort of clearing house of ideas along these lines. Engineering research in land grant colleges is certain to increase greatly in the near future and to become an important part of their work and this Association can do much to further the interests of its members along these lines.

CHAIRMAN DAVIDSON.-The subject is now open for general discus


DEAN E. D. WALKER, of Pennsylvania —Just a word or two in regard to the work of the engineering experiment station at state college. The work started about four years ago. The beginning practically dated from a small appropriation made by the state legislature for this purpose. This has been continued by means of a small allottment of funds by the trustees of the college out of the general appropriation for the institution. We have thus far published three circulars and bulletins and the fourth is now under publication. We are at present carrying on investigations along four different lines. One being tests for the Pennsylvania Railroad on quartz lamps, another on the heat treatment of steels, a third on distribution of concentrated pressures through earth coverings of highway culverts (this last being taken up in cooperation with the state highway department) and the fourth a series of tests of the thermal insulating powers of various coverings.

We have a calorimeter plant in connection with the engineering school and it is especially designed for studies of this nature. We have made tests in cooperation with the United States Bureau of Standards.

In addition to this work, which may perhaps be described as research work, we have made certain investigations and tests for private individuals and corporations, the expenses of which are borne

by them and the results turned over to them for their private use. We have also requests from many sources, and have been mistaken by many for a free bureau of consulting engineers. Many of these requests have come from farmers, who have been getting advice on purely agricultural matters from the agricultural experiment stations. This free advice has been fully warranted because there has been no body of experts in agriculture, corresponding to consulting engineers. The farmer had to go to the state experiment station or he could go to no one for advice. Wherever we could we have referred the farmer to some publication that fully answered his questions. We have generally been able to do so.

CHAIRMAN DAVIDSON.-The Secretary desires to make some announcements.

SECRETARY MARSTON.-The president of our institution tells me that he has reported the dean of engineering, to the officers of the Association of American Agricultural Colleges and Experiment Stations as a representative of the college, as he has a right to. I would suggest that your presidents do the same; you will then have the "right" to the floor in the general meetings of that association. President Jackson resumed the chair.

PRESIDENT JACKSON.-Are you ready at this time for the SecretaryTreasurer's report? The chair hears no objection and we will hear the report at this time.


The Secretary-Treasurer would respectfully report to the organization as follows:

Summary of Receipts and Assets.

Dues from land grant institutions in the following states:

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Summary of Expenditures and Liabilities.

Care of room, first annual meeting..

100 bound receipts for dues..

Manifold Proceedings for correction...

500 programs for second annual meeting.

500 copies of first annual Proceedings (part payment).

Stenographic transcript of Proceedings (part payment)

Balance due on stenographic transcript..
Balance due on printing Proceedings.

Total expenditures and liabilities....

Dues received
Dues unpaid


Bills paid










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Bills unpaid

Deficit (assuming that all dues will be paid)

If the unpaid dues are not paid, the deficit will be $97.25.

It will be seen that the Secretary-Treasurer has incurred obligations in excess of the assets. He considers himself personally responsible for the full amount of any deficit, and is entirely willing to contribute the amount of the deficit to the good of the cause, if necessary. In addition to the deficit shown above, there will be necessary expenses incurred in connection with the second annual meeting, November 11th to 14th, which should properly be paid from the receipts of the organization for the year 1913-14. It will be necessary to make a second assessment of dues to provide for these expenses, but it is recommended that the matter of providing for the expenses for the second annual meeting be taken up after the decision of the Association of American Agricultural Colleges as to whether or not the land grant college engineering organization will be admitted as a separate section. If it is so admitted, undoubtedly the expenses of the meetings should be provided for in the same way as those of other sections. Some delay was occasioned in the printing of the Proceedings of the first annual meeting on account of lack of funds. Dues were paid very slowly after the first few just following the meeting, and the Secretary-Treasurer hesitated to take the risk of incurring a debt of $100 necessary to print the Proceedings in full. The matter was taken up with President Jackson, outlining the desirability of printing the entire Proceedings and calling attention to the condition of our finances, and he expressed himself in favor of issuing the Proceedings complete. Accordingly this has been done. An edition of 500 copies was printed. They should be carefully preserved, as their value will increase with the passing years. Copies have been sent to all the members, to the best of our knowledge. The remaining copies are for a permanent file, and for the judicious use of the members. Respectfully submitted,

Ames, Iowa, Nov. 8, 1913.

A. MARSTON, Secretary-Treasurer.

DIRECTOR SMITH, of New York.-I move that the assessment made for the present year be large enough so that the Secretary-Treasurer will not find it necessary to make up any deficit.

DEAN BENJAMIN.-I move to amend that, making the amount $10.00.

DIRECTOR SMITH.-Mr. Chairman, I accept the amendment to my motion.

PRESIDENT JACKSON.-As amended the motion is that the assessment be $10.00 for carrying on the work of the organization.

The motion was duly seconded and carried.

SECRETARY MARSTON.-I request that the accounts of the SecretaryTreasurer be audited by a committee.

DIRECTOR SMITH.-I move that the report of the Secretary-Treasurer be accepted and adopted.

The motion was duly seconded and carried.

The report of the Committee on Wireless Telegraph Stations of Land Grant Colleges, of which Professor Thaler, of Montana, is chairman, was read by Dean A. W. Richter, of Montana.


The committee was appointed to investigate the advisability of establishing a system of wireless telegraph stations at the land grant colleges with power to organize such a system.

A list of questions and a circular letter were sent to the men in charge of electrical engineering at these institutions, the letter suggesting some of the benefits that may be derived from such a system:

(1) Increased usefulness of the engineering divisions of the land grant colleges to their respective states and to the national government.

(2) Strengthening the relations between them by bringing them into closer contact with each other.

(3) The further development of wireless telegraphy from an engineering standpoint.

The result of the canvas shows:

(1) Thirty-seven institutions in favor of organizing such a system. (2) Only a few institutions had an equipment for wireless telegraphy.

(3) Very little research work had been done and only one institution was giving instruction in wireless telegraphy.

The interest in wireless telegraphy has increased considerably since the canvas was taken and a good deal of wireless apparatus has been added to the equipment of the land grant colleges. A number of institutions have installed the necessary apparatus; others are willing to do so as soon as funds become available for this purpose. Some of the land grant colleges have no courses in electrical engineering, and therefore are unable to cooperate. A few others did not think the benefits to be derived from such a system would warrant the necessary expenditure. A number of institutions are decidedly in favor of the project, considering such a system of great value to the engineering divisions of the land grant colleges.

It may take several years, a good deal of enthusiasm, and a lot of hard work to complete the system, but with such a large number of institutions in favor of it, the project certainly seems feasible and worth while.

The committee would like to have an opportunity to complete its work, and therfore requests to be continued.

Bozeman, Mont., Nov. 5, 1913.


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