DIRECTOR SMITH.-Do I understand that this will increase the number of the Executive Committee? PRESIDENT JACKSON.-Just with regard to this one matter. DIRECTOR SMITH.-I move that Dean Orton's paper on "The Status of Military Drill in Land Grant Colleges" be made part of the transactions of the meeting of this organization. The motion was seconded and carried. (Note by the Editor.-Dean Orton's paper is printed in full on pages 72-82 ante.). On motion, the Association adjourned to meet Friday morning, November 14th, at 9 o'clock. FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 14TH. 9 O'CLOCK. Meeting called to order in the Red Parlor of the New Ebbitt Hotel at 9 o'clock, Dean Jackson, President, in the Chair. PRESIDENT JACKSON.-We will hear the report of the Committee on Nominations. DEAN BOARDMAN.-The Committee on Nominations respectfully presents the following names: For President: Dean A. Marston, of Iowa. For Vice-Presidents: Hon. P. P. Claxton, U. S. Commissioner of Education, ex officio. President W. H. S. Demarest, of New Jersey. For Secretary-Treasurer: Dean G. W. Bissell, of Michigan. For Members of the Executive Committee: DEAN WALKER.-I move the report be accepted and that we proceed with the election. (The motion was seconded and carried.) PRESIDENT JACKSON.-I appoint Director Smith and Dean Boardman as tellers. DEAN SHENEHON.-Mr. Chairman, if there are no further nominations, I move that the Secretary be instructed to cast the ballot of the Association for the nominees. PRESIDENT JACKSON.-The motion before us is to instruct the Secretary to cast the ballot for the official nominees. The motion was carried unanimously. DEAN MARSTON, Secretary.-Mr. Chairman, I have cast the ballot for the gentlemen nominated. PRESIDENT JACKSON.-I therefore declare them duly elected. PRESIDENT JACKSON.-Will Dean Reber kindly take the chair, inasmuch as we will continue the discussion of engineering extension. CHAIRMAN REBER.-In the discussion of engineering extension all the regular assignments have been filled. DEAN JACKSON.-Mr. Chairman, I would like to start the ball rolling by asking what channels you work through, and if you use such agencies as the engineering societies of the various cities, the Y. M. C. A., etc. We have considered these agencies, have done a great deal in trying to work through them and have succeeded to a certain extent. I wonder whether it is good policy? CHAIRMAN REBER.-We have used every possible agency except the Y. M. C. A. We had a specific reason for not cooperating with the Y. M. C. A. This reason possibly no longer exists. In the State of Wisconsin there are large numbers of Catholics, and, as you know, the Catholics do not affiliate themselves with the Y. M. C. A. It seemed desirable, therefore, for us in starting the work to demonstrate to the Catholics as well as to others that it was not our purpose to link up with organizations to the detriment of any other organization. As the extension work is now accepted by all classes of people in the state, there would seem to be no longer a reason for not working through the Y. M. C. A. In fact, we are contemplating in several places cooperating with this organization. I do not believe, however, that it is desirable to work entirely through the Y. M. C. A. in any city. There are a good many people who would take extension work offered by the university who would not be willing to go to Y. M. C. A. buildings. We endeavor to be a cooperating element and desire to use all kinds of organizations that may exist to further the extension work. DEAN JACKSON.-Have you done anything with organized labor? CHAIRMAN REBER.-Organized labor has always been the friend of the extension division in Wisconsin. Soon after the extension work was organized the labor unions throughout the state sent petitions to the legislature urging liberal appropriations for the extension division. They did this because of the work in industrial education which the extension division was doing and was proposing to do. PROF. H. L. GWINNER, of Maryland.-Relative to what is being done in extension work in Maryland, we have been doing first-class work so far as the agriculture is concerned. We have done nothing in extension work along engineering lines, for the reason that there has been no appropriation for this purpose. I live in Baltimore and the city of Baltimore for the training of its mechanics has reduced the condition down to this. The city of Baltimore is not much of an engineering center, although it is quite a manufacturing center, but as for engineering in the sense of Pittsburgh and some of the industrial cities west, Baltimore has no standing whatever. The main plant of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company is in a section of Baltimore known as Mont Clair and the company has about 2,000 men in its employ there. They are doing practically nothing for their apprentices on the ground, but each one of the apprentices is entitled to go to one of the sections of the Y. M. C. A. in the western portion of the city, known as West Branch Y. M. C. A. At this branch there is taught to these men gratis, as far as the men are concerned (for the railroad company stands the expense of $6 per year for each one) mechanical drawing, sheet metal drawing, car drawing and surveying, the field instruction in surveying being given on Saturday afternoons. The city and also the state have appropriated money each year towards an institute known as the Maryland institute, but at this institute only mechanical drawing is taught: one. CHAIRMAN REBER.-The question of funds, of course, is a serious When we began work in Wisconsin, we were obliged to use to a large degree the teachers in the university. Many of these were willing, indeed, more than willing to assist, but only a few of them were really successful teachers by correspondence. In every case, as soon as there was a sufficient number of students to warrant the securing of a teacher especially prepared for the work-one who had had practical experience as well as teaching experience in subjects to be taught-such a man was secured on a salary basis. In this way, the teachers of residence students were dropped gradually and teachers for the correspondence work were secured, until at present practically all of the engineering work in the extension division is done by a corps of teachers responsible to the extension division. These men give their entire time and thought to the work. At present we are not taking up any new lines of work unless we have a thoroughly competent man to develop the work. DEAN G. W. BISSELL, of Michigan.-Would this work that you are doing in Wisconsin be carried out just as well from the beginning and now, if it had been part of the State Bureau of Education, as it has been as part of the University of Wisconsin? Has the university connection given prestige to your work? CHAIRMAN REBER.-There can be no doubt but that relation to the university does much toward maintaining standards. In fact, if any course is being taken for credit, not only the teacher is approved by the Dean of the School of Engineering, but the work is carried on to the satisfaction of the head of the department of the similar work for the residence students. Many of the engineering teachers in the extension division are doing a small amount of teaching to the residence students. This is done for the purpose of keeping a close affiliation between the extension teachers and the college of engineering, and makes less probable a lowering of standards in the extension work. DEAN BISSELL.-I cannot help think that some of the work is not quite in the field of the university. I wonder whether it could not be taken care of by a special bureau of education, or a state bureau of industrial education. CHAIRMAN REBER.-As stated before, if you desire to have real engineering instruction, I do not believe that any state department of education without going to tremendous expense could carry on effectively extension work in engineering subjects. What would be your idea with reference to a separate organization? DEAN BISSELL.-To preserve the demarcation between elementary and university education. CHAIRMAN REBER.-This might be satisfactory if only elementary work were done. With the development of vocational education in the public schools, however, there is going to be less and less demand for the elementary lines of work and greater and greater demand for the more advanced engineering work. DEAN TURNEAURE.-I think that in this field of work the university, better than any other institution of the state can do it and ought to do it as an educational proposition, and when some other institution is developed to take care of this work the university will be glad to turn it over. I do not think the standing of a university is unfavorably affected by its extension work. DEAN BENJAMIN.-In reference to what Dean Bissell just said, I would state that in Indiana we have the vocational, or secondary grade school, and this I understand is under the state board of education. Of course, the state university are members of this board and the university is acting more or less in an advisory capacity in regard to this work. I believe the tendency is that the State Board of Education handle this work and that the college grade be handled by the university. DEAN WALKER.-In Pennsylvania we have done a small amount of work along this line and we feel very much as one or two other speakers appear to, that is, that it is the business of a state college to extend its educational work in the state either by taking the right of way where there is no other agency doing the work, or by cooperating with others to do what we can to help things along. In that connection we have established at the request of the Pennsylvania railroad a school for apprentices in Altoona. The railroad company provides the building and equipment and we furnish certain members of our engineering faculty to supervise the work, their salaries being paid by the Pennsylvania railroad. For a time we maintained a vocational school in the city of Williamsport at the request of the local school board. As soon as this work was thoroughly established, however, and the school in shape to run itself, we nominated a man from our staff who is now continuing the work under the local authorities. PRESIDENT JACKSON (in the Chair).-In as much as I see the time for this discussion is exhausted and Dr. Tyler is the next speaker, would it not be well to close this discussion and call on the next speaker. If there are no others wishing to discuss extension I will call on Dr. H. W. Tyler at this time for his address on the new plant of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. DR. TYLER gave a very interesting talk on the new Massachusetts Institute of Technology, using diagrams published in the Boston Transcript, and answered a number of questions by the members as to the dimensions and capacity, as well as the location of the new institute and the disposition of the present buildings. After brief announcement by President Jackson, calling attention to the afternoon session, the meeting adjourned at 10:30 o'clock to permit the members to attend the joint session at the New Willard, to reconvene at 2 p. m. at the New Ebbitt. 2 P. M. The meeting was called to order in the White Parlor of the New Ebbitt Hotel at 2 o'clock, Dean Bissell in the Chair. DEAN BENJAMIN.-I have been asked to make the following motion: That Dean L. E. Reber, of Wisconsin, be added to the Executive Committee on all discussions concerning legislation relative to extension work, in the same way that Dean Orton was added to the committee for the purpose of considering military matters. (The motion was seconded and carried.) CHAIRMAN BISSELL.-The subject of my paper this afternoon is "Status of Engineering at Land Grant Colleges in States Maintaining More Than One Engineering School." THE STATUS OF ENGINEERING IN LAND GRANT COLLEGES OF STATES MAINTAINING MORE THAN ONE ENGINEERING SCHOOL. DEAN G. W. BISSELL, EAST LANSING. This paper deals wholly with the legal or external aspect of the question and not at all with the internal matters nor with the outside activities of the engineering schools of land grant colleges. As is well known in many, if not all, of the states which support more than one engineering school, there is, or has been, discussion, sometimes followed by legislation, changing the status of engineering in one or more of the schools of the state. The underlying idea has been that needless duplication of work and consequent waste of public money results from supporting engineering instruction at more than one place in the state. It is the object of this paper to present briefly the situation as it exists in some of the states. To this end the writer has corresponded with acquaintances and others, officials of state institutions where the question is acute, or has been so, and a brief summary of the information so obtained is here presented, supplemented in some instances by personal information and facts of common knowledge or report. Colorado.-There has been considerable discussion in Colorado as to the advisability of doing away with duplication and also as to the matter of putting all the educational institutions under a common board, but nothing definite has been done. Iowa.-The State University of Iowa, the Iowa State College, and the Iowa State Teacher's College have been placed by the legislature under the control of a single board known as the State Board of Education. In the fall of 1912 the board passed a resolution abolishing engineering at the State University and domestic science at the State College, and making various other changes looking towards doing away with duplication of work among the institutions concerned. This action aroused so much hostility among the friends of the institution as to bring the situation to the attention of the legislature where the question was considered with such effect, that, without legislation, the board rescinded its action for the time. The question is by no means settled and the friends of the engineering schools at both institutions expect that the future will bring consolidation of engineering instruction at Ames or at Iowa City. Kansas.-The legislature has created a single board of control for the higher institutions of learning which is designated the board of administration. At the present the policy of the board on the question of consolidation and elimination of duplication of engineering work has not been announced but one conversant with educational affairs in the state writes that he believes "that the result will be the establishment at the State College of an agricultural engineering course. This will be followed by a gradual elimination of the other engineering courses (at Manhattan) in fact, if not in name." Montana.-The legislature has enacted that after July 1, 1913, the State University at Missoula, the College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts at Bozeman, the School of Mines at Butte and the Normal School at Dillon shall constitute the University of Montana, supervision of which shall be vested in the State Board of Education. The four separate plants will be maintained but certain duplications will be |