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And when questioned why, if he is so pros stand “on the brink of an avalanche,''-in Mr. TRUMBULL. Is there a report ? perous, others, engaged in similar business, are which exceedingly uncomfortable position my

Mr. HARLAN. There is a printed report overwhelmed with ruin, he replies in the ex. colleague left the industrial interests of the accompanying the joint resolution. traordinary statement which I will quote in his country a few days ago; and as they were not

Mr. EDMUNDs. Let us hear the report own words: - My prosperity is owing to the to be relieved till his bill for loaning out the read. breaking down of everybody engaged in the money of the Government to Wall street opera

The Secretary read the following report, same interest with me. It is not for me to dis tors had passed, I presume they are there submitted by Mr. Thayer from the Commitpite the principles on which men conduct their still--have audaciously laid the foundations of tee on Military Affairs on the 2u insiant: own business, but I am happily able to relieve another and a larger mill. The financial ruin

The Committee on Military Affairs, to whom was him of the natural apprehension which he must and the moral degradation which my colleague referred the Sunate joint ro olution No. 2. tor too feel of the damaging effect upon his fellow has discovered had not penetrated that “happy

relief of Jobin E. Reeside, buving bad the sinna

under consideration, respectiully begleave to report: citizens, who rejoice in his prosperity, quite valley:" If, as I believe, the ruin and desola The testimony before the committee show liat unconscious that it has been built on the ruin tion, the corruption and degradation, exist only

John E. Rue ide was the contractor on route No. 2 of their own. The inanutacturing interest, in in the imagination of the man who paints it,

for the year 1867; that he commenced in goo-l iaita

to carry out his contract, but unprecedented rains our State, and througliout the country, is not let him console himself, that as he bas de. deluged the country, aud for weeks at a tiine the crowded out beneath ihe weight of his gains, tected evils that no one else has seen, he has roads were imp lable, bridzes swept away, and the nor from any other cause. There are spinners iuvented a remedy that no one else would have

streams not fordable; that about this time the Indian

war broke out, and freighters could oot be iuduced in Rhode island whose business is as exten thought of.

to go on the road without extriuurilinary coro pinsasive, and I have no reason to doubt that their The bill was reported to the Senate as amend. tion; with combination of other circumstances over business is conducted with equal skill; and, | ed, and the amendinents made as in Commit

which he had no control, rendered it impossible to

carry out this contract without any fault or beglect leaving out exceptional cases of fortunate or tee of the Whole were concurred in.

of bis own. These facts are fully substantiated and unfortunate operations, I can see no reason why The amendments were ordered to be en proven by the letters of General Haneock, Captain it should not be conducted with equal success. grossed, and the bill to be read a third time.

Bradley, the quartermaster at Fort Riley. General

Easton.chief quartermaster department of Missouri, My colleague is not the only man who under. The bill was read the third time, and passed: | General Rucker, acting quartermaster general, and stands bis business, if he be the only one who

uncontradicted affidavits of parties who are fully JOSEPII P. FYFFE.

conversant with the facts. regards it as an assault upon his credit to b3 told that he gives attention to his business.

Mr. SHERMAN. I ask the indulgence of

As nothing is asked but the payment of John E.

Roeside for the work done under almost insurmountThere are men in Rhode Island on whom the the Senate to take up and pass a little private able difficulties, and as the evidence all shows he is pressure of money does not fall, for they do

bill, the only one in which I have any interest, entitled to it, the committee recommend the passage not have occasion to borrow it. If they did which has been reported from the Committee

of the joint resolution. not in the long run find it more profitable to

on Naval Affairs. It is House bill No. 338. I Mr. EDMUNDS. I want to inquire of the employ their capital in spinning than in bank suppose there will be no objection to it. Senator having knowledge of this inalter ing, they would not put their investments in

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, whether we pay this person at his own price, the former; and if spiuners who work, as most

as in Cuinmittee of the Whole, proceeded to or according to contract price so far as he opof them do, on borrowed capital did not find

consider the bill (H. R. No. 358) for the relief erated? it profitable in the long run and taking one

of Joseph P. Fyfie, commander in the Unied Mr. KARLAN. According to the contract year with another to pay the rates, they would

States Navy. It directs ihe proper accounting price as far as he has performed the work, and pot continue the business. But I am not going

oflicers of the Treasury to pay Joseph P. Fyffe, no further. to discuss questions of finance. I do not know

commander United States Navy, the ditler The joint resolution was reported to the even so much on that subject as the Senator

ence between the pay of a lieutenant and that Senate without amendinent, ordered to be eafrom Maine [Mr. FESSENDEN) and the Senator

of a lieutenant cominander on the active list, grossed for a third reading, read the third time, from Indiana, [Mr. Morton.] from the 16th day of July, 1862, to the 2d of

and passed. We are suffering no evils at home such as March, 1867.

RIVER AND HARBOR BILL. my colleague holds up to a horrified country.

The bill was reported to the Senate without

Mr. CHANDLER. I move that the Senate The manufacture of textile fabrics has some

amendment, ordered to a third reading, read what exceeded the demand, and, by the plainthe third time, and passed.

proceed to the consideration of House bill

No. 367. ezt law of political economy, the over supply


Mr. TRUMBULL. I will inquire what presses on the price. But it is not on acconnt

that is?

Mr. HARLAN. I move that the Senate ofany crushing out to which others have been

The CHIEF CLERK. "A bill (H. R. No. subjected by ihe operation of the same law

take up Senate joint resolution No. 2. which has conducted another man to greater

Mr. CONKLING. What is it?

367) making an appropriation for the improveThe CHIEF CLERK.

ment of rivers and harbors for the fiscal year prosperity. In the present stagnation of busi

"A joint resolution (ş; ending June 30, 1869, and the year ending ness, and in the present stringency of money-

R. No. 2) for the relief of John E. Reeside.'' a little relieved, I am happy to note, by the

June 30. 1870."

Mr. TRUMBULL. Senators are calling up
last accounts—some of the mills may be com.
private bills. There is a public bill-

Mr. TRUMBULL. I hope that will not be
Mr. HARLAN. Let this be passed.

called up to-night.
pelled to stop, some of the weaker ones may
go to the vall. These are the ordinary changes

The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there objec.

Mr. CHANDLER. Let it bercaj at length.

It will not take a minute. and chances of trade. They occur periodically, tion to the consideration of this joint resolu

Mr. TRUMBULL. I know what it is with. tion ? but the returning, wave of prosperity washes

Mr. TRUMBULL. I wish to call the atten:

out its being read nt length. away the wrecks that were stranded, in the last year's disaster, and advances still further the tion of the Senate for one moment to a public

The VICE PRESIDENT. The question is high water inark of national wealth. When I last bill which ought to be passed, and which is

on the motion of the Senator from Miehigan. beard from the valley of my native river, the one of the measures which it was understood

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, busy bum of industry resounded through all would be acted upon at this session. I refer

as in Committee of the whole, proceeded to to the bill to enforce the fourteenth constitu.

consider the bill. It appropriates the sum of its meandering course. High above the roartional amendment; and I think we had better

$2,000,000 for the fiscal year ending June 80, ing of the falling waters, every drop taxed to the full extent of its motive power, rose the take it up and act upon it.

1809, and the year ending June 30, 1870, to be

expended for the repair, extension, preserva. sound of the whirling spindle and the sharp | but a minute or two.

Mr. HARLAN. This resolution will take

tion, and completion of works for the improveclatter of ihe loom. And daily, with the morn: ing sun, thousands upon thousands of con

Mr. TRUMBULL. I do not interpose any

ment of rivers and harbors under the direction

of the Secretary of War; and the Secretary tented people, men and women, rose from objection to the motion of the Senator from

of War is authorized to cause such expenditables, spread with wholesome food, left their

Iowa. comfortable dwellings, and resorted to the

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, | interests of commerce; and he is required to

tures to be made so as best to subserve the avocations of honest and healthful toil. An

as in Committee of the whole, proceeded to
consider the joint resolution (S. R. No. 2) for

report to Congress, at the opening of its Deancient mill which throws its evening shadow

cember session, all expenditures made ander over the house where I was born. and a portion the relief of John E. Reeside. It directs the

the provisions of the act up to that time in of which descended to me, with my modest

Quartermaster General to settle and pay, upon detail. patrimony, was in full, and those who managed the bills of lading, the accounts of John E.

Mr. TRUMBULL. I take it that that bill it thought not altogether unprofitable, opera. Reeside, for transportation of public stores at

will necessarily lead to debate. tion. And although within pistol-shot of a the contract price, for the amount of public

Mr. CHANDLER. Not at all. It will lead newer and, I think, much larger establishment, stores actually transported under his contract,

to no debate. belonging to the power which ma ches to dated April 4, 1867, on route No. 2, for Kan.

Mr. TRUMBULL. The chairman of tbe wealih over the ruins of competition, it still sas, Colorado, and New Mexico.

Committee on Appropriations is not here. dared to turn its presumptuous wheels, and to

Mr. CONKLING. From what committee

Mr. CHANDLER. He was here a moment roll out the fleecy fabric, as it had done from

does this come? & period before my colleague was born, before

Mr. HARLAN. From the Committee on

Mr. TRUMBULL. I do not suppose that
I wis born. And if its operations were not so
Military Affairs.

a bill appropriating $2,000,000 is to pass withprofitable as might be desired by its stock

Mr. CONKLING. Does the Senator know

out consideration. holders, it yielded abundant reward to those that it is all right?

Mr. CHANDLER. It received the consid. who were engaged in the production. Nay, Mr. HARLÂN. I believe it to be perfectly | eration of the Committee on Commerce, and those who manage it, all unaware that they right.

that is sufficient.



to it.


Mr. TRUMBULL. I should like to have long is it since he had the attention of the Sen: the district court of the United States for the the chairman of the Committee on Appropri ate to a bill providing specifically that so many district of Nevada; and ations or some one here to pay some attention thousand dollars should be appropriated for A joint resolution (H. R. No. 34) to sell or

this work, and so many thousand upon that, exchange the site of custom-house in the city Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senator had paid and giving directions where the money should of Naslı ville, Tennessee, that a inore suitable attention to the reading of the bill he would be spent ? That is the kind of a bill that we location may be obtained. see that it ought to pass without objection. ought to have.

The message also announced that the House Mr. TRUMBULL. I move to postpone ibis Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senator will

par had passed the following bills of the Senate : bill and all prior orders for the purpose of | don me, we appropriated $1,500,000 last year A bill (S. No. 38) to remove the charge of proceeding to the consideration of Senate bill in the self same way that this is appropriated, desertion from certain soldiers of the thir. N). 114.

and no fault has yet been found with it, to my teenth Tennessee cavalry; and Mr. CHANDLER. I hope not. knowledge.

A bill (S. No. 75) regulating the rights of Mr. HAMLIN. I desire to know if this bill Mr. TRUMBULL. Let me ask the Senator property of married women in the District of has passed the House of Representatives ?

from Michigan if that met his approbation? | Columbia. Mr. CHANDLER, It has passed the House. Was it not merely a make-shift like this? The message further announced that the Mr. HAMLIN. Then I do hope the Senate Mr. CHANDLER. No, sir ; it met my

House had passed the bill (S. No. 60) legal. will not postpone its consideration at this time. I entire approbation.

izing the stamping, of certain subscription The Senator from Illinois desires to know if Mr. TRUMBULL. I cannot understand, papers executed and issued to the Iowa North. the chairman of the Committee on Appropri- then, wby the Senator from Michigan should ern Central Railroad Company, with ations is in his seat. He has no more to do have bad a bill pending since that time provid. amendment, in which it requested the conwith this bill than the furthest individual on ing specifically where the money was to be ex.

currence of the Senate. earth. He might as well invoke the aid of || pended. If this mode of doing business meets

PAY OF SOUTHERN SENATORS. that chairman to every bill that is reported his entire approbationfrom the Committee on Claims. It is the duty

Mr. MORTON. I move to take from the

Mr. CHANDLER. I said the one last year of the Committee on Commerce to inquire into | did. You asked me if that met my approba

table the resolution providing for the compen. the condition of the commerce of the country, || tion, and I told you it did entirely.

sation of members from the reconstructed its harbors and its rivers. You know, sir, and Mr. TRUMBULL. I am aware that it met

States, for the purpose of having a vote upon it.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator I know, and every Senator in this body knows, the Senator's approbation after he failed in that there are spread all over the country a making the appropriations specifically, as I am

from Indiana moves to proceed to the consid. variety of works that need the protection of sure he originally preferred to do. It met his

eration of the resolution to pay to the Senators the Government in this limited manner to

from North Carolina, South Carnlina, Florida, approbation because he found that it was im. prevent them from going to ruin. It is not || practicable, I suppose, at the stage of the session

Alabama, Arkansas, and Louisiana compen in inaugurate schemes; it is not to inaugurate il when the measure came up to pass the bill

sation from the commencement of the second a system or to commence any new work, but | appropriating the money in detail, as ought to

session of the Fortieth Congress. it is an appropriation of the small amount of | bave been done. I am quite sure the Senator

The motion was not agreed tomayes nine, $2,000,000 to keep a vast amount of works in from Michigan would not have brought in a bill

noes not counted. their present condition until the condition of at the last session, as he did, appropriating ENFORCEMENT OF FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT. the country shall enable us to go along in the money for specific works if he had supposed the Mr. TRUMBULL. I now move to proceed progress of completion as the wants of the proper way to do it was to appropriate money to the consideration of Senate bill No. 114, to country shall demand. I hope the Senate in the lump in this way. The only limitation enforce the fourteenth article of amendment will not postpone this bill, but will pass it there is in this billis contained in the proviso— 1 of the Constitution of the United States. to-night.

That the Secretary of War is hereby authorized to The VICE PRESIDENT put the question Mr. TRUMBULL. Let us see what this causo such expenditures to be made so as best to bill is, if it is to be discussed. The Senator subserve the interests of commerco; and he is re

on the motion, and declared that the noes apfrom Maine has thought proper to go into the

quired to report to Congress, at the opening of its peared to have it.

December session, all expenditures made under the Mr. TRUMBULL. I call for a division. merits of it, and hopes that the bill will be con. provisions of this act up to that time in detail.

I ask the Senate to take up the bill to enforce sidered and passed, appropriating the insignifi It is placing $2,000,000 to be expended at the fourteenth annendment, one of the meas. cant sum, as he calls it, of $2,000,000. When

the discretion of the Secretary of War, and he ures agreed to be acted upon at the present he and I first came to Congress $2,000,000 was

may expend the whole of it in the extension session. not denominated an insignificant sum. It was

of works. I do not suppose he would do so. The question being put, there were on a thought to be quite a large sum. Now this I apprehend that the present Secretary of War division-ayes 22, noes 6; no quorum voting; suin is to be appropriated, and for what? At

would most likely make a judicious expendi Mr. STEWART. I call for the yeas and random. Can the Senator from Maine or the ture of this money; but I did think that this

nays. Senator from Michigan, or anybody else, tell was not the hour to call up this appropriation Mr. TRUMBULL. There is a quorum presme for what these $2,000,000 are appropriated? || bill, and that it ought to have been called up ent if Senators will vote. Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senator will read

when the members of the committee who have The VICE PRESIDENT. There is a quo. the bill he will find it out.

more particularly in charge the matter of apMr. TRUMBULL. I will read it in order | propriations were on the door of the Senate.

rum present, but many Senators did not vote.

Mr. TRUMBULL. I ask for another divis. to ascertain :

It is known that there was another sụbject to ion. That the sum of $2,000,000 is heroby appropri- || be considered to-night, and that was the reason Mr. MORTON. I withdraw my opposition, atedFor what?

why I sought to interpose a measure which it | and am willing to let the bill be taken up.

was understood would be considered by the The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator For the fiscal year ending June 30, 1869.

Senate at this session. Mr. CHANDLER. Read on.

from Indiana withdraws his opposition. If no Mr. TRUMBULL. ** And the year ending

Mr. CARPENTER. I hope that this bill Senator demands a division the ages have it.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The pending
June 30, 1870, to be expended for the repair: || question is on the motion of the Senator from || proceeded to consider the bill.

The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, extension, preservation, and completion of || Illinois, to postpone the pending bill and all works for the improvement of rivers and har: | prior orders for the purpose of considering the

The Committee on the Judiciary reported bors, under the direction of the Secretary of

the bill with an amendment, to strike out all War.' bill in regard to the fourteenth article of amend.

after the enacting clause and to insert the folment. Mr. CHANDLER. That is it.

lowing in lieu thereof: Mr. TRUMBULL. Two million dollars are

Mr. CARPENTER. At the request of the That whenever any person shall bold office, excopt appropriated for the extension" of works I shall not make any remarks on the subject. Senator from Michigan, (Mr. CHANDLER,] I as a member of Congress or of some State Legisla

ture, contrary to tho provisions of the third section nnder the direction of the Secretary of War.

of the fourteenth article of amendment of the Con

The motion was not agreed to. Where? Wbat works are to be extended? Is

stitution of the United States, it shall be the duty of it all to be expended on the Des Moines rapids | amendment, ordered to a third reading, read

The bill was reported to the Senate without the district attorney of the United States for the dis

trict in which such person shall hold office as aforeor the St. Clair flats, or at the mouth of the the third tiine, and passed.

said to proceed against such person, by writ of quo Mississippi, or where? Does this bill tell ?

warranto, returnable to the circuit or district court

of the United States in such district, and to prosoIt is to be expended in the "extension" of


cute the same to the removal of such person from works. How extended? It is not simply to A message from the House of Represent office; and any writ of quo warranto so brought as

aforesaid shall take precedence of all other cases on preserve works. Who can tell how it is to be atives, by Mr. McPherson, its Clerk, an. the docket of the court to which it is inade returnexpended? It is illimitable. It is placing nounced that the House had passed the fol able, and shall not be continued unless for causo $2,000,000 taken out of the Treasury into the lowing bills and joint resolution; in which it proved to the satisfaction of the court. bands of the Secretary of War, to be disbursed requested the concurrence of the Senate :

SEO. 2. And be it further enacted, That any person

who sball hereafter knowingly accept or hold any in his discretion. It may be best to pass a bill Å bill (H. R. No. 92) to discontinue Sault office under tbe United States, or any State, to which of this kind; it may be that at this late stage || Ste. Marie as a port of entry in the Superior

he is ineligible under the third section of the four

teenth article of amendment of the Constitution of of the session no proper bill can be matured ; | district, and to establish Marquette in lieu

the United States, or who shall attempt to hold or but we know, and nobody knows better than thereof;

exercise the duties of any such office, shall be deemed the Senator from Michigan, that he has spent A bill (H. R. No. 408) for the relief of Mrs. guilty of a misdemeanor against the United States; a great deal of time in undertaking to determine | Susan A. Shelby ;

and upon conviction thereof before the circuit or

district court of the United States, shall be impris. where this money ought to be spent.

How A bill (II. R. No. 843) for holding terms of oned not more than one year and fined not exceeding 41st Cong. Ist SESS.No. 40.


$1,000, and shall forever be disqualified to hold any and afterward engaged in rebellion. It does taking an oath that he did not give aid and offico of honor, trust, or profit under the United

not reach the great body of the bar unless comfort in any way to the rebellion. He can. States or any State.

they had beld office. A lawyer takes an oath not do it unless his disabilities have been reThe VICE PRESIDENT. The question is

to support the Constitution of the United moved. If he violates that oath, if that is a on agreeing to the amendment.

States and of his State, and an oath of office | false oath, he is liable to indictment and con- . Mr. THURMAN. I move to strike out the

as an attorney. I believe that was uuiversal viction for perjury; be is liable to imprisonsecond section of the amendment.

everywhere ; so far as my experience goes it ment in your penitentiary for perjury: and now Mr. President, the bill that was referred to

This section of the fourteenth amend the Judiciary Committee propose to add to that the committee contained one section-a section ment does not touch him unless he had also | punishment the punishment of another year's that provided for proceeding by quo warranto held an office. The section is not, then, so imprisonment, a fine of $1,000, and disqual. against any person holding office in violation comprehensive as to include all who had sworn ification for office as long as he shall live. of the third section of the fourteenth amend.

to support the Constitution of the United You punish him for perjury upon an indictment ment of the Constitution. That bill was a States. It selects certain classes of persons for perjury, then punish him for holding office proper bill. It afforded the means of turning | who had taken that oath and who afterward and disqualify him for holding office during the out of office any one who was disqualified to engaged in insurrection. Why, then, is it whole of his life; pile punishment upon puohold office by reason of the third section of the that these persons are disfranchised? The | ishment, and that because the man differed in fourteenth amendment to the Constitution. amendment goes upon the theory, which I | opinion with you! The Judiciary Committee report that section have always thought is not a sufficient founda I am not here to palliate the act of any man back with no amendment of any consequence, tion for it in morals, at least, that those persons in rebelling against the Government. I am but they add to it a second section which makes had committed willful and corrupt perjury, and not here to palliate any man's crime whatever. it an offense indictable and punishable by fine therefore ought to be forever disqualified from No man condemns more strongly than I do and imprisonment to hold or to attempt to hold holding office either under the Federal Gov. that miserable folly which resulted in seces. any office in violation of the third section of ernment or under the government of a State, sion and led to the terrible war we have lately the fourteenth amendment. I beg the atten

by reason of the particular turpitude of their gone through. I do not stand here to justify tion of the Senate to this second section, which crime, by reason of their being forsworn men. or to palliate that; but I do say that there I move to strike out. It reads as follows:

I have said that my judgment never did ap. were men who honestly believed in their read. SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That any person prove of that. I would have been willing, if | ing of the Constitution; that every Senator on who shall hereafter knowingly accept or hold any

the public safety required it, to disqualify cer this floor believes were honest in tbeir interoffice under the United States, or any State, to which he is ineligible under the third section of the four tain men from holding office; but not on the pretation of the Constitution ; men who are teenth article of amendment of the Constitution of ground which is there stated; and why not? | disqualified by this fourteenth amendment be. the United States, or who shall attempt to hold or exercise the duties of any such office, shall be deemed

Because it is punishing men for opinion sake. cause of their error of opinion; and I say it guilty of a misdemeanor against the United States; No man can deny it. It has been admitted || is sufficient that they are disqualified; it is and upon conviction thereof before the circuitor dis again and again by Senators on this floor of sufficient that you have put it in the Constitu• trict court of the United States shall be imprisoned not more than one year and fined not exceeding $1,000,

the dominant majority that man after man tion that they shall not hold office without the and shall forever be disqualified to hold any office of entered into the rebellion as honestly believing | consent of two thirds of each House of Con honor, trust, or profit under the United States or any in his interpretation of the Constitution as we gress. It is not necessary to go further and State.

believed in ours. Who doubts it? Is there a to send them to the penitentiaries of the counMr. President, I believe this is the first time | Senator here who will say that hundreds and try and to disqualify them from office as long in the history of this country that it has been thousands of the men who went into that rebel. as they shall live; and that, too, in addition to made a penal offense to hold an office or to lion did not jnst as honestly believe in the right punishing them for perjury under the act which attempt to hold an office. If there has been

of secession as we believed in the right of requires them to take an oath of office. I any such case before I confess my ignorance coercion in case they attempted to secede? To therefore hope that this second section will be of it. During the war, when there was some brand those men as willful and corrupt per. || stricken out, leaving the first section of the bill necessity for it, there may have been some such

jurers, as men who deserved to be pilloried in to stand ; a section that is right enough and prohibition ; but it so it escaped my attention.

the Constitution, not for rebellion, but for per that ought to receive the vote of every Senator. I feel quite sure that in time of peace such a

jury, willful and corrupt, never did meet the Mr. TRUMBULL. I trust the second section crime as this section defines has been wholly || approbation of my judgment; and I do not will not be stricken out. This section disqualiunknown to American law,

think it ever will. But to add to that a statute fies nobody. It is the fourteenth amendment that But, sir, that is not all. Let us see what is punishing men by fine, by imprisonment, and prevents a person from holding office. It declares this punishment-a punishment that may ex: by a disqualification from office forever, does certain classes of persons ineligible to office, tend to one entire year's imprisonment, to a fine of $1,000, and to a disqualification for life || defense of the Constitution that I could pos

strike me to be one of the strangest steps in being those who having once taken an oath to of the individual to hold any office either under sibly imagine.

support the Constitution of the United States,

afterward went into rebellion against the Gor. the United States or under any State. I should

I put it to the able chairman of the Com erument of the United States. But notwitb. like very much to have my friend, the chair- | mittee on the Judiciary wbat becomes of the standing that constitutional provision we know man of the Judiciary Committee, tell me where part of the third section of the fourteenth that hundreds of men are holding office who it is that Congress gets the power to disqualify | amendment, which I will read, if this bill is to are disqualified by the Constitution. The Con. a person from holding office under a State.

pass into a law? The section provides that stitutiou provides no means for enforcing itself, We may perhaps provide for disqualification in ibe class of individuals named 'shall be dis. and this is merely a bill to give effect to the regard to Federal officers; but where do we get | qualified to hold office under the Federal Gov. fundamental law embraced in the Constitution. the power to prescribe what sball be the quali. | ernment or under a State government, and then The Senator from Obio says it provides for fications or disqualifications of office in the State of Obio? Where does that power belong it provides:

ever afterward disqualifying these persons from

"But Congress may, by a vote of two thirds of each | holding office. That is nothing more than the to us? House, remove such disability."

Constitution of the United States has done. But, sir, apart from that consideration I am totally opposed to this whole section. What is

But the bill which is before us provides || That Constitution says that no person embraced the third article of the fourteenth amendment what?

within the classes specified shall hold any of the Constitution ? It is familiar to Senators,

And shall forever be disqualified to bold any office office. This bill does no more.

of honor, trust, or profit under the United States or Mr. THURMAN. Will the Senator from undoubtedly, but pray let me read it: any State.

Illinois allow me ask him a question ? "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice Pres

If, therefore, any man shall hold office or Mr. TROMBULL. Certainly. ident, or bold any office, civil or military, under the

attempt to hold office who is disqualified by Mr. THURJAN. Does the Senator from United States, or under any State, who, having pre the fourteenth amendment, however innocently || Mlinois claim that Congress has the pardoning viously taken an oath as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of

he may do it, however upright a man he may ) power, or is that vested in the Executive? If any State Legislature, or as an executivo or judicial

be, yet he is bound, if convicted, to be sen Congress has not the pardoning power, sup; officer of any State, to support the Constitution of tenced to disqualification for office so long as pose you pass this bill and a man is sentenced the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection | he shall live. Suppose Congress the next day | under it to disqualification for life and Conor rebellion against the same or given aid and comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a

removes his disabilities. What good does that gress the next day should remove his disabilvote of two thirds of each House remove such dis- | do him? Here is the sentence of a court that | ities, as provided in the third section of the ability.”

renders him ineligible during his whole life. fourteenth article, will he be then qualified to Now, sir, upon what principie was it that How is this provision to be reconciled with the hold office? that section was adopted? It was not simply | clause of the Constitution that gives Congress Mr. TRUMBULL. Perhaps not; and if to disqualify persons who had engaged in insur authority to remove disabilities? Is it not he is guilty of an offense under this law in rection or rebellion against the United States, | plainly in the face of that provision of the addition to the offenses already committed perbecause if that had been its purpose it would Constitution ?

haps he ought never to hold office. This is a have been as comprehensive as the rebellion But again, Senators, if a man shall hold an mode of punishment prescribed to prevent itself ; it would have included everybody who office contrary to the provision of the Consti men who are disqualified under the Constituhad engaged in insurrection or rebellion, tution, he is already indictable for perjury. tion from accepting or holding office-not from whether he had taken an oath to support the No man can take and hold office in violation | attempting to hold office, as the Senator stated. Constitution or not.

of the third section of the fourteenth article The section declares that if a person “shall But again, it does not even reach all who of the Constitution without taking an oath of hereafter knowingly accept or hold any office": had taken an oath to support the Constitution office, without taking your test-oath ; without ll he shall be liable to the penalties prescribed

by this act. Some statute is certainly neces. time? Is not this monstrous, incongruous,

this crime and all this guilt to be wiped away sary to enforce the constitutional provision ; and unjust legislation, taking the fourteenth by the action of two thirds of both Houses of and the punishment to be prescribed is left amendinent of the Constitution in connection Congress. entirely in the discretion of the court, exceptwith this bill?

It seems to me, then, that the honorable ing as to the disqualification which is put upon Now, Mr. President, let me present another Senator from Illinois and the Cominittee on the party convicied. The first section of the aspect of this question. I set out with the the Judiciary, and the Senate and the Conbill is not objected to by the Senator from maxim that there ought to be a proportion || gress of the United States, ought to be satisfied Ohio, and the second section is only cumu: between crime and punishment. What is the with the legislation that will be effected by lative. It is to afford a more eflicient and crime that is denounced by this bill? It is the the passage of the first section of this measure, speedy remedy to prevent persons from hold. || holding of any office, civil or military, under because that will be an adequate remedy to ing oltice who are not entitled to take office the Government of the United States, or of prevent any of the criminals under the fourunder the Constitution of the United States. any of the States, without any regard to the teenth amendment of the Constitution from It will interfere with none but the guilty. The class of office that is so held, in contravention holding office in defiance of its letter. I there. innocent will never be prejudiced by it. of the provisions of the fourteenth amendment fore bope that the motion of the honorable

Mr. THURJAN. Will the Senator from of the Constitution, and there is a denuncia. Senator from Ohio will prevail, and that the Illinois be good enough to tell me where he tion of a punishment, without regard to the Senate will strike out the second section of the gets the authority for Congress to prescribe | class or importance of the ollice that may be bill. disqualifications to hold an office under a State? | held, of twelve months' imprisonment, a fine Mr. THURMAN. I do not wish to prolong

Mr. TRUMBULL. I suppose that Congress of $1,000, and a disqualification to all office this debate; but I desire to say a very few has authority to provide for the punishment of || during a lifetime. I ask if there is not a mon words in reply to some observations which fell the violation of the laws of the United States, strous and revolting disproportion between the from the distinguished chairman of the Judi. and one punishment that is prescribed, and offense and the punishment when it is pro- || ciary Committee. In answer to my question not a very unusual one either, is that a person vided in the fourteenth amendment that all the where he finds the power of Congress to pre convicted of an offense shall not hold any office. | culpability, all the crime, all the punishment | scribe the qualifications that an individual shall This constitutional provision declares that the consequent upon this violation of law, either possess in order to bold office under a State, classes of persons nained shall be precluded | by the provision of the Constitution itself or or rather to prescribe disqualifications for not only from holding United States but State any act that Congress may pass to enforce it, office holding under a State, he refers me to the offices, and authority is given by appropriate may be swept away, wiped out, obliterated by last clause of the fourteenth amendment to the legislation” to carry this constitutional pro. a vote of two thirds of both Houses of Con. Constitution, which is in these words: vision into effect. Now, then, may not Con. gress ?

"The Congress shall have power to enforce by ap. gress, in carrying into effect á constitutional

Is there any necessity for such a law? All propriate legisiation tho provisions of this article.' provision which expressly authorizes it to ex• the remedy that is needful, and surely that is It is a sufficient answer to that position of clude from ollice à certain class of persons, || adequate to prevent the commission of the of the honorable Senator to say that it is not make it a part of the punishment that those fenses which the amendment of the Constitu

"appropriate legi slation to punish a crimo persons shall be excluded? It seems to me tion and the proposed act provide against, is against the laws of the Constitution of the Unithat the power is very clearly given by the sufficiently secured by the first section of the ted States by a disqualification to hold office fourteenth amendment, which is under consid. bill. What is the substance of that section? under a State. But while I am on the sulyject eration, and to carry into effect which this bill It makes it the duty of the district attorney of of this language in the Constitution I wish to is proposed.

the United States, in any court of the United say that in my judgment nothing is clearer Mr. DAVIS. I think there is no sounder || States, to issue a quo warranto against any man than that the provision that Congress may “en. maxim in law-making than that there should who is in office or holding office against the

force by appropriate legislation the provisions of be some proportion between guilt and punish- || provisions of the fourteenth amendment of the this article,'' gives to Congress no more power ment; and I think another maxim equally Constitution. There is an appropriate remedy, than Congress possesses under the last clause souud is, that penalties and crimes should not full and adequate, to meet the evils of the case. of section eight of the first article of the Con. be needlessly multiplied by legislation. It What is the evil? It is the holding of an office, || stitution, and that is the familiar clæuse giving seems to me ibat both of these inaxims, not State or Federal, against the provision of the authorityonly of sound legislation, but of good sense, fourteenth amendment of the Constitution. If

"To make all laws which shall be necessary and good morals, and good statesmanship, are pro. a remedy is provided by which every incum. proper for carrying into execution the foregoing posed to be violated by the second section of bent may be ejected from such office, and it is powers, and all other powers vested by this Constithis bill, which the honorable Senator from made the especial duty of the United States

tution in the Government of the United States or in

any departinent or officer thereof." Ohio bas proposed to strike out.

district attorney to institute proceedings for the There is a provision in the fourteenth amend. purpose of ejecting every such incumbent from ment of the Constitution that prohibits certain office, is not that an adequate and full and ample

all the power that is conferred upon it by this persons who have taken an oath to support the remedy to meet the evils of every case? Why, provision : Constitution of the United States from holding | sir, no legislative body, no lawgiver, passes “The Congress shall have power to enforce by apany office, civil or military, either under the criminal laws for the luxury of inflicting pain,

propriate legislation tho provisions of this article." general or under the State governments. Is for the luxury of instituting prosecutions for It certainly gives to Congress all the power there anything criminal in the bolding of office crime, for the luxury of indicting pain and in respect to the original Constitution that this against the provisions of the fourteenth amend. shame and degradation upon those who have provision does in regard to the fourteenth ment of the Constitution ? Is there anything been guilty of a violation of the law. The amendment. Where did this word "approof turpitude, is there anything that is destruc only good sense and reason of all penal laws | priate” come from? It came from an opinion tive of morals and of the safety of society, in is to prevent the commission of crime, to re of Chief Justice Marsball in a case in wbich, holding office in conflict with the direction of form the criminal when that crime has been considering the section of the Constitution that the fourteenth amendment of the Constitu. committed ; and these ends are sufficiently pro- | I have read, which confers upon Congress the tion? I say there is not; and why? Because vided for in the first section of the measure power to pass all laws necessary and proper that article itself provides that the disability now under consideration.

for carrying into execution the express powers of holding office against its provisions may be Why, then, pass the second section? Does conferred upon it and upon the other depart. removed by a two-thirds vote of the two Houses it originate in any other feeling than that of ments of the Government, he defines what is of Congress.

vengeance? Does it originate in the sentiments necessary') or a "proper" power as an What contradiction of principle is involved || and principles that ought to guide and impel appropriate” measure. A measure that is between the fourteenth amendinent and the wise and statesmanlike legislation? Is it not || “appropriate” in his judgment is a proper' second section of the bill that is proposed to to gratify the bad feelings of our nature, to in measure. The provision of the Constitution was be stricken out? The fourteenth amendment flict punishment, to see the writhings and the not limited to simply what was necessary. The denounces offenses that are not innately im degradation consequent upon that punishment? || language is "to make all laws which shall be moral, that have no moral turpitude in them, Šir, any legislation that is sufficient to pre necessary and proper," and lie considered that that of themselves are innocent or innoxious, vent the commission of the crimes denounced what was "appropriate” might be considered and that was the judgment of the authorities || by the fourteenth amendment, and that is in in the judgment of Congress, and ought to be who made that amendment of the Constitution tended to be provided for by the first section considered by the courts, as "necessary and when they provided that the disqualification of this bill, ought to satisfy just and reasonable proper.' It is from that opinion, defining which it prescribes for may be removed by a The first section fully answers the pur what is meant by "necessary and proper, vote of two thirds of both Houses. Will gen. pose of the law. It fully answers every prac. that this word "appropriate” got into the last tlemen contend that acts so innoxious, so neu: ticable object of the fourteenth amendment; clause of the fourteenth amendment to the tral in their character as to innate baseness it provides a remedy for throwing the guilty Constitution. It is, therefore, not one whit and immorality, that they may be done away incumbent out of office, who may get into either stronger than the original provision in the with by a vote of two thirds of both Houses of a State or a Federal office in contravention Constitution. Now, I put it to the Senate Congress, shall nevertheless be the foundation of the fourteenth amendment; it furnishes whether it is necessary, in order to execute upou which to denounce crimes and punish an appropriate remedy, a just and reasonable the fourteenth amendment to the Constitution, ments such as are proposed to be denounced | remedy, one that does not violate the proper that Congress shall provide that a man shall by the present measure, imprisonment for proportion between crime and punishment, that be disqualified from holding office under the twelve months, a fine of $1,000 in addition, establishes no incongruity with the last clause government of a State? and disqualification to hold office for a life. of the fourteenth amendment which allows all But further, if Congress can go on and dis.

Xow, Mr. President, that gives to Congress


If you

I was

qualify a man from holding office under a State to the same, and agree to the section in the follow- | all, because the most degrading of punish. for one offense, why not for any other? If a ing words, to wit:

That there be appropriated the further sum of

ments, a disqualification like this ? It will man violates any one of the provisions of the $2,000,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to

not do to say these men were rebels. revevue laws why may not the court sentence enable the President to inaintain the peace among are ever to restore that good feeling which we him to disqualification for office? I know some and with the various tribes, bands, and parties of all so much desire, and which every Senator on

Indians, and to promote civilization among said InSenators will not agree with me in my views dians, bring them, where practicable, upon reserva

this floor professes, and no doubt honestly, to of the last clause of the fourteenth amendment. tions, relieve their necessities, and encourage their desire so much, it is not by such bills of pains They think that it confers a broader power

efforts at self-support, a report of all expenditures and penalties as this that we are to bring it

under this appropriation to be made in detail to upon Congress than was conferred by the familCongress in December next; and for the purpose of

about. iar clause which was in the original Constitu. enabling the President to execute the powers con Mr. President, perhaps I have spoken some. tion. I have only to say that after giving the

ferred by this act he is hereby authorized, at his dis what warmly upon this subject; but I cannot

cretion, to organize a board of commnisssoners, to subject the greatest consideration of which I consist of not more than ten persons, to be selected

help entering my protest against what seems am capable † believe that it is not one particle by him from men eminent for their intelligence and to me to be a novelty in legislation, and a broader than that original provision.

philanthropy, to serve without pecuniary compen novelty that cannot recommend itself to the

sation, who may, under his discretion, exercise joint The Senator from Kentucky has well said control with the Secretary of the Interior over the

sober second thought even of the honorable that the fact of having previously taken an oath disbursement of the appropriations made by this act gentlemen who have reported it to the Senate. to support the Constitution did not add such a or any part thereofthat the President may designate; Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, the amend

and to pay the necessary expenses of transportation, deep dye to the crime of treason that the peosubsistence, and clerk biro of said commissioners

ment to the bill now presented proceeds upon ple thought it was a crime never to be for. while actually engaged in said service there is hereby the presumption that a person holding office in given, for they have provided in the Constitu appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not contravention of the fourteenth article of the

otherwise appropriated, the sum of $25,000, or so tion that two thirds of both Houses of Con: much thereof as may be necessary,

amendments to the Constitution is in office; gress may relieve a party from all disabilities, SEC. —. And be it surther enacted, That nothing in that he is an officer de facto, and that all his acts not only relieved from punishment, but abso

this act contained, or in any of the provisions thereof,
shall be so construed as to ratify or approvo any

as such officer must, inter partes, be regarded lutely rehabilitated and made capable of hold

treaty made with any tribes, bands, or parties of as valid and legal. I think I do not misstate ing office again. That is what the people have Indians since the 20th of July, 1867.

the theory upon

which the bill must be founded. said that two thirds of both branches of Con


The fourteenth article of amendment declares

JAMES HARLAN, gress may declare by their votes.

Managers on the part of the Senate. that a certain class of persons shall not hold The PŘESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. Conk.


office or be eligible to office either in the Fed. LING in the chair.) Will the Senator from

JOHN A. BINGHAM, eral Government or the government of any Ohio give way to allow a message to be received


State. That is the fundamental rule before

Managers on the part of the House. from the House of Representatives ? Mr. THURMAN. Certainly.

The report was concurred in.

which all our legislation and all the legislation


means certain that the acts of an officer hold.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The bill (S. ing office in contravention of that article of the A message from the House of Representa: || No. 114) to enforce the fourteenth article of Constitution would be valid, even between the tives, by Mr. McPherson, its Clerk, announced amendment of the Constitution of the United parties to the suit or any other transaction that that the House bad agreed to the report of the States is before the Senate as in Committee took place before himn. I am not quite precommittee of conference on the disagreeing of the Whole, and the Senator from Ohio (Mr. || pared to say that the judgment even of a court votes of the two Houses on the bill (H. R. No. THURMAN) is entitled to the floor.

exercising functions in violation of that article 123) making appropriations for the current and

Mr. THURMAN. When I gave way of the Constitution would be valid. It is a contingent expenses of the Indian department, speaking of what the people thought of this | question of some difficulty, I confess. But, and for fulfilling treaty stipulations with the

crime as shown by their granting authority to various Indian tribes for the year ending June

sir, I shall nevertheless vote for the first section two thirds of Congress to remove all disabil of this bill, although I entertain very serious 80, 1870.

ities. What did this Senate think of it when doubts of the necessity for it. If the person Mr. FESSENDEN. Will the Senator from

it confirmed the nomination of James Long. ll claiming to hold an office is in fact as well as Obio be good enough to allow me to call up

street to an important office? He had taken | de jure no officer, if instead of being in office the Indian appropriation bill?

an oath to support the Constitution of the he is actually out of office by virtue of that Mr. THURMAN. I will not occupy five United States. "It is true he did not fall within clause of the Constitution, then it is somewhat minutes more of time.

the fourteenth amendment to the Constitution; difficult to see the propriety of instituting the Mr. FESSENDEN. I am obliged to go to but he had taken a solemn oath to support the proceeding of quo warranto for the purpose, another committee of conference, which is Constitution of the United States as a cadet in the language of the first section, of removing now sitting. It will take but a moment to when he entered West Point, and at each step him from office. I cannot exactly understand accomplish what I wish.

of his promotion ; and if there was any man tbat; but still I am willing to support the bill Mr. THURMAN. Very well.

who ought 10 have felt bound by his oath I rather for the purpose of removing doubt than Mr. FESSENDEN. The committee of eubmit that it was a soldier and an officer in the otherwise. conference of the two Houses on the Indian Army of the United States. And yet the Sen The honorable Senator from Ohio, who appropriation bill have agreed upon a report, ate did not consider his crime of that deep dye moves to strike out the second section, has which has been adopted by the House, and I that he ought not to be confirmed for an im- | difficulty in seeing the source of authority submit the report on the part of the Senate. portant office under the Government of the claimed for punishing a person who holds office The Chief Clerk read the report, as follows :

in a State in violation of the fourteenth article. The committee of conference on the disagreeing tioned in him you make a crime punishable Mr. THURMAN. Will the Senator allo votes of the two Houses on the amendments to tho by fine, imprisonment, and perpetual disfranbill (H. R. No. 123) making appropriations for the

me to interrupt bim? current and contingent expenses of the Indian de

chisement in the poorest and humblest and Mr. HOWARD. Certainly. partment, and for fulfilling treaty stipulations with lowest individual that can be found in the whole various Indian tribes for the ycar ending June 30,

Mr. THURMAN. The Senator quite mis country if he happens to hold or attempts to 1870, having met, after full and free conference

conceives me. The difficulty I have is that it have agreed to recommend, and do recommend, to

hold an office under the Government of the their respective Houses as follows: United States or of a State.

is to be part of the sentence of a Federal court That the Senate recede froin their amendments

that a man shall be disqualified from holding

Why, sir, what would you do if some other numbered 6, 18, 25. 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72,

office under a State. 73. 74, 75, 76, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, disqualification for holding office were under

Mr. HOWARD. 125, 140, 141, 142, 145. consideration? This is the first time in my

Very well, Mr. President. That the House of Representatives recede from life that I ever heard of a man being indicted

That does not change the status of the issue their disagreement to the amendments of the Senate numbered 2, 4, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, and punished for holding or attempting to hold

between us, that I perceive, or tbe nature of it. 24, 26, 27, 28, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46. an office. Suppose we go further; suppose

I think I discover very clearly the source of 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 59, 60, 61, 62, 77, 90. 91, 92, there were a proposition here that if any man

this authority. The fourteenth amendment 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106,

declares107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119,

who was not born within the United States and 120, 121, 122, 124, 127, 128, 130, 131, 132, 135, 136, 137, 138, had not been naturalized, or in a word an

** That no person shall be a Senator or Represent139. 144, 147, 153, and agree to the same.

ative in Congress, or elector of President and Viee That the House recede from their disagreement to

alien, should hold or attempt to hold an office President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the sixteenth amendment of the Senate and agree to

in the United States, under the Federal Gov. the United States, or under any State, who, baring the same, with an amendment, as follows: in line ernment or the government of a State, he

previously taken an oath,” &c. six of said amendment strike out all after the word "and" to the end of said amendment and insert in

should be punished by fine, imprisonment, and There is a positive fundamental prohibition lieu thereof the following words: "twenty-five thou

perpetual disqualification, how many votes against any person falling within this category fand dollars: Provided. That the said sum, if accepted, would it get in this Senate? Suppose it were to hold office even in a State. He is prohibited shall be in full for the claim of said Blackburn as above stated;" and the Senate agreo to the same.

proposed to punish by fine, imprisonment, and || by the express terms of the article from doing That the Senate recede from their disagreement to

perpetual disqualification for office any minor Now, suppose he does so or attempts to the amendment of the Ilouse to the fitty-seventh who should hold or attempt to hold an office; do so in the teeth of this probibition, have not amendment of the Senate; and agree to the same. That the Senate recede from their disagreement to

how many votes would it get here? And || Congress, under the last clause of the amend. the amendment of the House to the one hundred and

where are you to stop if you once begin on ment which declares that "the Congress sball forty-sixth amendment of the Senate; and agree to legislation of this kind? What is to be the have power to enforce by appropriate legislathe same. That the Senate recede from all of their one hun

circle outside of which you are not to step, if tion the provisions of this article," power to dred and fifty-second amendment after the enacting you once begin to visit with pains and penal. punish him for this viclation of the Constitaolause, and the House reoede from their amendment ties, imprisonments, fines, and the worst of tion? Most surely.


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